Warhammer 40K Tactics VI: Chaos Bringing Eternal Darkness? I brought my flashlight.

[Erloas]

Oddly enough, I had the opposite reaction when I played a fantasy game and thought "okay, only 40k for me". Fantasy just seems to rely on a few really powerful-holy-****-gamebreaking units which are neigh unstoppable unless you have some of your own. The few games I've played were literally un-winnable (unless extreme instances of luck were involved), and I've never had that problem with 40k.

Also I really hope that GW will include a few pages for group play in the next rule book. Probably 25% of the games I play involve more than 2 people. And I am sure that I am not the only one.

Well check out Fantasy again when 8th edition comes out. It seems the majority of the changes are designed to make the problem you have much less of a problem. But how good either game is is almost directly related to the people you are playing them with.

And with GW adding a lot more ally specific rules in Fantasy and pushing things like Apocalypse more, I would imagine a much more comprehensive set of ally rules will show up in the next edition of 40k too.

[EleventhHour]

4) I was writing a quick list for speculation, and wasn't all that interested in getting it absolutely perfect.

I wasn't picking on your way of writing it up, I just scrolled up the page and used the first army list that I found for an example...

And tables aren't that hard, I usually write the HTML into notepad, anyway. It's just :

V- Without the space and include a =head if you want the nice bold brown bar.
{table ] Section one | Two | Three | Onwards
One | Two | Three | Onwards
[/table]


Each of the verticle | bars seperates the area and automatically formats the words into that table space. So a Hive Tyrant would be...

Hive Tyrant | Old Adversary, Adrenal Glands, Wings | ### Points

And to show something leaving out the Equipment Space like a Lictor...

1 Lictor | | ## Points

Which looks like (with the =head) :
{table=head] Unit | Equipment | Points
Hive Tyrand | Old Adversary, Adrenal Glands, Wings | ### Points
1 Lictor | | ## Points
[/table]

Now, I'm not trying to convince everyone to change, just wanted to show there was a simple way to make neat and tidy lists.*

*That are admittably harder to quote individual lines of. >.>

[Lord Blace]

My newly constructed Hive Tyrant!

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I managed to get two battleforce boxes for $150 USD, and I'm planning on getting some spore transports for the genestealers and maybe a carnifex and another hive tyrant.
Any advice on what else/anything different I should get/add to my army? I plan on stopping at a 2000 point army. Maybe. >.>


Also: hello everyone.

[Ninja Chocobo]

But yes, yesterday's experience makes me rethink my stance on that quite a bit...

You played with douchebags. It happens in any game system.

[evisiron]

My newly constructed Hive Tyrant!

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Also: hello everyone.

You will want to be posting model pics here by the way.

I would love to give advice, but low on Nid experience with the new codex.

Also: Hello Lord Blace

[Arcanoi]

My favorite synergy still stands at Chaos fighting alongside Epidemius. Models with the Mark of Nurgle count for the Tally. Suddenly, every MEQ in his force has a Poisoned 2+ Power Weapon.

[Cheesegear]

I managed to get two battleforce boxes for $150 USD, and I'm planning on getting some spore transports for the genestealers and maybe a carnifex and another hive tyrant.

2 Hive Tyrants and you're barely even started. There's hope for you.

Spores don't actually exist. You'll have to make those yourself.

For the Hive Tyrant, it's a Monstrous Creature, and therefore gets to fire two ranged weapons per turn. So, I'd think about doing that. The Carnifex sprue comes with a lot of extra parts that fit well on a Hive Tyrant. Likewise, the Carnifex can shoot two weapons per turn. So, go for that, or don't take ranged weapons at all.
Still, if that's your first Tyrant, you probably didn't know. But, now you do.

If your Hive Tyrant doesn't have wings, I immediately suggest getting Tyrant Guard. Max them out.

If you want a Carnifex, consider a Mawloc/Trygon instead.

Genestealers don't need Spores. They can Infiltrate.

Any advice on what else/anything different I should get/add to my army? I plan on stopping at a 2000 point army. Maybe.

Write out a list of your units, and what biomorphs/etc. you want to give them. Show us what you already have and what you like, and we'll go from there.

[Closet_Skeleton]

My newly constructed Hive Tyrant!

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Scything talons look cool but are kind of pointless. Only reason to take them is if you don't want to pay the points for more guns, and in that case you're better keeping the lash whip;

I managed to get two battleforce boxes for $150 USD, and I'm planning on getting some spore transports for the genestealers and maybe a carnifex and another hive tyrant.

Carnifexes aren't very good any more. They're either an over priced gun platform or a slow melee unit that's almost definately going to die before reaching the enemy. On the up side shooty carnifexes aren't actually that much worse at melee than close combat ones (especially not if you keep it near your hive tyrant).

Likewise, the Carnifex can shoot two weapons per turn. So, go for that, or don't take ranged weapons at all.

You can have crushing claws, a barbed strangler/devourers and bio plasma. That's two ranged weapons you can fire and a decent assault weapon. It's just too expensive to fit into most lists.

Only carnifex I'd consider taking would be devourers and barbed strangler. Except for 10 more points I could take that on a hive tyrant instead. Who has the minor disadvantage of not being able to kill landraiders in melee so easily. If your opponent really lets your carnifex get into assault range of a land raider (except somehow I've seen it happen).

[Wraith]

Now, I'm not trying to convince everyone to change, just wanted to show there was a simple way to make neat and tidy lists.*

Oh, I know - I'm sorry, if I came off as a little too sharp. I didn't intend for that, just to answer the question you asked as thoroughly as possible

[DranWork]

Most multi-player games that ive played have been a waste in time and a lession in frustration more then anything else. I rather enjoy 1v1v1 but when you start having more then one player per team (provided their not new to the game that is) then it just becomes crazy. Ive had some success with this set up in warhammer as their are rules for it and for 40k it only seems to work "right" if you have 2 simular armies working together (eg 2 chapters of marines, or imp guard and marines or chaos and daemons ext ext) So then when theres rules over lap then it actualy makes sence for it to happen. Ive noticed that you start to get problems with mixed armies working together adn in such cases id rather play a 1v1v1v1 or even a 1v1v2 if one of the players is new to the game. I also believe that everyone should get their own turn to do things not a combined turn as it makes the game easier to follow. An it helps to have say player 1 from side A go first then player 1 from side B go next ext ext.

[Cheesegear]

Most multi-player games that ive played have been a waste in time and a lession in frustration more then anything else. I rather enjoy 1v1v1 but when you start having more then one player per team (provided their not new to the game that is) then it just becomes crazy.
[...]
Ive noticed that you start to get problems with mixed armies working together adn in such cases id rather play a 1v1v1v1 or even a 1v1v2 if one of the players is new to the game.

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks so.

[DranWork]

Will admit that i have a multi player 1v1v1 game a few weeks ago and had a blast doing it. Was partly to teach a new guy the rules and smarter play and partly to gang up on my flatmate and test my army vs 2 people at once. Ended up almost tableing both, whilst also almost being tabled myself! An after 4-5 hours of play and it being 2 am in the morning it was still laughs all round. This was a good experence.

[Cheesegear]

Remember how to write a list? Well, it's been brought to my attention that, at the super-duper 'Ard Boyz tournaments, they play 2250. I've never had the (mis/)fortune of going along to those ones. The tournaments I play at are 1750 max. And that's fine. I only seem to play 2000 points in casual games.

Anyway, here's that sample.

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Hey everyone, I've just gone out and bought Assault on Black Reach and a Battleforce, and, here's what I've got so far for my Space Marines army

While it's not entirely necessary to introduce yourself like this, it lets people know what you have available at this point and so gives them an indication of why you've taken what you've taken. Still, the main thing that people reading this will see is that we're using the Space Marines codex.

Of course, if you're writing a list for a tournament, you never have to do this.
So, here's the Raw List that we'll be working from.

Raw List.

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HQ
Captain - 160 Points
Bolter, Relic Blade, Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs
Hellfire Rounds

ELITES
Teminator Squad (x5) - 200 Points

Dreadnought - 105 Points

TROOPS
Tactical Squad (x10) - 240 Points
Meltagun
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon, Teleport Homer
+ Rhino

Tactical Squad (x10) - 195 Points
Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher
Sergeant: Bolter and Power Weapon

Tactical Squad (x5) - 90 Points

Scout Squad (x5) - 75 Points
Shotguns

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad (x5) - 135 Points
Flamer
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Fist

Total: 1200 Points

HQ
Captain - 160 Points
Bolter, Relic Blade, Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs
Hellfire Rounds

You'll notice the HQ heading. You don't have to to write that, but, it organises your list somewhat.

From what this author has seen, when GW is teaching new players to write new lists, they write 'Space Marine Captain'. You can if you want. I didn't. You'll notice that Hellfire Rounds gets a line to itself, that's mostly because it alters the way model is played, and could be considered a special rule that people need to pay attention to. Jump Packs or Bikes are sometimes also written on a new line.
'Bolter with Hellfire Rounds' is also acceptable. Even though Hellfire Rounds is far down the list on Captain's Wargear options, it gets placed where it would make sense or be less confusing.

You'll also notice that the points cost of the whole model is shown, and definitely not individual pieces of Wargear.

ELITES
Teminator Squad (x5) - 200 Points

Dreadnought - 105 Points

By writing nothing, we've indicated that the units are straight out of the Codex. No fiddling necessary. We don't need to say that the Terminators have Storm Bolters and Power Fists, and we don't need to tell people that the Dreadnought has a Multi-Melta. If it's not written down, people will assume the default.

TROOPS
Tactical Squad (x10) - 240 Points
Meltagun
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon, Teleport Homer
+ Rhino

Like the Terminators, we don't need to explain that eight of the Space Marines carry Bolt Pistols and Bolters. The Sergeant gets his own line, with his weapons known, as the Sergeant has the option of 'and/or' replacement. The Rhino is also clearly part of the unit and it's points cost is included in the unit's total.

Tactical Squad (x10) - 195 Points
Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher
Sergeant: Bolter and Power Weapon

Tactical Squad (x5) - 90 Points

Scout Squad (x5) - 75 Points
Shotguns

We already put the unit with the Transport up first, so, that's out of the way. The next units are the other Tactical Squads, as they come before Scouts in the Codex. Once again, on the top Tactical Squad, we've indicated what the Sergeant didn't replace.
The Tactical Squad with only five models - and the least options - comes dead last. With the Scouts following, as they come next in the Codex.

Astute readers will also notice that I've written my list Elites => Troops, in opposition to the Codex.

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad (x5) - 135 Points
Flamer
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Fist

Total: 1200 Points

You'll also notice that, aside from the Tactical Squad with an Attached Transport, we're yet to take up more than 3 Lines for any single squad. You'll also see we've included a Total Points Cost at the end of the list.

Anyway, that's what I've got, I'm wondering what I should take out to get it down to 1000 points, or what I can add to it to get to 1250 or 1500 points so I can play some bigger games. I really like the Assault Squad so I want to keep that if I can. Or even get more, lol.

This last part is pretty much for posting on the internet only. It tells people what you want to do, and what your points cap is. You'll notice that the person writing this list likes Assault Squads. Since his Captain doesn't really synergise with the rest of his army, this tells his readers to immediately think about maxing the Assault Squad and replacing the Captain with a Chaplain with Jump Pack (they'd probably want to do that anyway ).

The important thing about an Army List is that your reader shouldn't have to look too hard to find the information your reader needs to know.

And, yes. That is pretty much the best list you can make with only AoBR and a Battleforce.
You could replace the Scouts' Shotguns with Combat Blades. If you want.

[Lycan 01]

Alright, using that guide you just wrote up, lets see what sort of DH list I can formulate...

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HQ
Inquisitor Lord - 151
Power Weapon, Psycannon, Bolt Pistol, Artificer Armor, Refractor Field
Holocaust, Word of the Emperor

-Retinue (x11) - 185
2 Familiars
3 Acolytes
-Storm Bolters, Carapace Armor
3 Warriors
-Vet Guardsman w/ Melta Gun
-2 x Gun-Servitors with Heavy Bolters
3 Sages

Elite
Grey Knights Terminators (x5) - 145
Brother-Captain

Troops
Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (x5) - 70

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (x5) - 70


Allied Troops
Infantry Platoon (x1)
Infantry Squad - 80
Vox, Autocannon, Plasma gun

Infantry Squad - 125
Vox, Autocannon, Plasma Gun
Commissar
-Power Weapon

Infantry Squad - 80
Vox, Lascannon, Grenade Launcher

Command Squad - 130
Medi-pack, Vox, Grenade Launchers x 2
+Chimera

TOTAL - 996 Points

Alrighty, that's the "dream" list I'm gunning for. Inquisitor & Retinue run-n-gunning around the field in Command Squad's Chimera, GK Termies Deep Striking into wherever they can do the most damage, Platoon combined-squad'd to just set up shop somewhere defendable to wreak havok on the enemy, and Stormies to cap-n-hold objectives.



Go ahead, pick it apart. I know this list is gonna get grilled so bad...


One small note/concern...

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Model wise, I'll be using a Lord Commissar to represent my Inquisitor, and the GK Termies will be converted AoBR Termies. I want the Inquisitor to be a "small" model so he doesn't take up as much room in the Chimera, but a "big" model with Terminator Armor would be cheaper points wise, even though I'd have to drop a Retinue member - probably a Sage. But I also won't have a Termie model to spare, unless I took the "Sarge" Termie from the AoBR guys and made him my Inquisitor Lord. But that'd leave me with only 4 GK Termies... But if I switched the Commissar for the Sarge model, I could then just use the Lord Commissar to represent the Platoon's Commissar, who would otherwise be a converted Junior Officer model. Yes, I have some crazy model conversions going on...

So yeah, would I be better off sticking with the "small" model, paying more points for the Inquisitor's gear, and keeping 5 Termies? Or should I use the "Sarge" AoBR Termie as the IL, costing less points but also dropping me to only 4 GK Termies?

[Cheesegear]

Alright, using that guide you just wrote up, lets see what sort of DH list I can formulate...

Let's do this...

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Inquisitor Lord - 151
Power Weapon, Psycannon, Bolt Pistol, Artificer Armor, Refractor Field
Holocaust, Word of the Emperor

This here is illegal. Page 16. Characters can have up to two weapons. This guy has 3. Lose the Bolt Pistol. Yay! Free point!

Holocaust and Word of the Emperor are awesome. Slightly not-effective vs Chaos Marines though.

Retinue (x11) - 185
x2 Familiars
x3 Acolytes: Storm Bolters, Carapace Armor
Veteran Guardsman: Meltagun
x2 Gun-Servitors: Heavy Bolters
x3 Sages

I didn't really fix it.
Anyway, why 3 Sages? You don't get a bonus for the third. You could swap it for a Mystic, and take shots at Drop Pods or Terminators. Or any number of Blood Angels units. Having multiple Sages only gives you one re-roll. And you're not using a Plasma Cannon. So, maybe think about dropping two.

Grey Knights Terminators (x5) - 145
Brother-Captain

...Oooh...Is that 5 Grey Knights, plus a Brother-Captain? Or 4 Grey Knights and a Brother Captain? So close...I know what you mean though. Yep.

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (x5) - 70

Inquisitorial Stormtroopers (x5) - 70

Yep.

Infantry Platoon (#1)

Command Squad - 130
Medi-pack, Vox, x2 Grenade Launchers
+Chimera

Infantry Squad - 80
Vox, Autocannon, Plasma gun

Infantry Squad - 125
Vox, Autocannon, Plasma Gun
Commissar
-Power Weapon

Infantry Squad - 80
Vox, Lascannon, Grenade Launcher

TOTAL - 996 Points

I fixed it so that the Command Squad goes first and altered where the 'x2' on the Grenade Launchers go. On the Lascannon Squad, swap the Grenade Launcher to a Plasma Gun.

Second, I read below that you plan on Combining Squads. If that's the case, you don't need so many Voxes.

Model wise, I'll be using a Lord Commissar to represent my Inquisitor, and the GK Termies will be converted AoBR Termies. I want the Inquisitor to be a "small" model so he doesn't take up as much room in the Chimera, but a "big" model with Terminator Armor would be cheaper points wise, even though I'd have to drop a Retinue member - probably a Sage. But I also won't have a Termie model to spare, unless I took the "Sarge" Termie from the AoBR guys and made him my Inquisitor Lord.

Considering that this list is all pie-in-the-sky at the moment anyway, why can't you get a Librarian or Chaplain in Terminator Armour?

So yeah, would I be better off sticking with the "small" model, paying more points for the Inquisitor's gear

You're never better off paying more points for the same gear.

[Lycan 01]

Let's do this...

This here is illegal. Page 16. Characters can have up to two weapons. This guy has 3. Lose the Bolt Pistol. Yay! Free point!

Holocaust and Word of the Emperor are awesome. Slightly not-effective vs Chaos Marines though.

Whoops! XD Oh, and I meant to write Force Weapon instead of Power Weapon...

I didn't really fix it.
Anyway, why 3 Sages? You don't get a bonus for the third. You could swap it for a Mystic, and take shots at Drop Pods or Terminators. Or any number of Blood Angels units. Having multiple Sages only gives you one re-roll. And you're not using a Plasma Cannon. So, maybe think about dropping two.

True, true. I just figured the spare Wound would be handy. But yeah, I'll switch for a Mystic...

...Oooh...Is that 5 Grey Knights, plus a Brother-Captain? Or 4 Grey Knights and a Brother Captain? So close...I know what you mean though. Yep.

4 Termies and 1 Brother Captain. I thought the BC was supposed to be written underneath, as an upgrade.

Yep.

If I have any spare points, I'll give them (the Stormies) a plasma gun or two.

I fixed it so that the Command Squad goes first and altered where the 'x2' on the Grenade Launchers go. On the Lascannon Squad, swap the Grenade Launcher to a Plasma Gun.

Second, I read below that you plan on Combining Squads. If that's the case, you don't need so many Voxes.

Will do. I just wanted to save a few points, and the occasional weak blast pie or random krak 'nade would have been a fun surprise for my opponent.

Oh right, less voxes. *facepalm*

Considering that this list is all pie-in-the-sky at the moment anyway, why can't you get a Librarian or Chaplain in Terminator Armour?


You're never better off paying more points for the same gear.

Oooooh, you're right. A Termie Chaplain would be sweet. I love that model... Or I could buy another set of AoBR Termies off Ebay or The War Store for cheap, and use one Sarge as the IL and the other Sarge as a Brother Captain.


True, but Termies count as 2 models in Chimeras, so I'll only have 10 Retinue - guess I'll have to drop the Melta, or the Mystic.


I'll update the list later, after I get more feedback...

[ZeetaXalavalio]

*Delurks*

Just have to point out that Grey Knight Terminators are 46 points a piece, with the Brother-captain weighting in at 61 points. Meaning those termies will go for a whooping 245 rather then the 145 you have written out.

Oh and a quick calculation of points shows gives me 1036 points, rather then 996, and that's even before the extra 100 for the termies.

Also isnt it better to, since you aren't allowed to take 3 weapons, lose the bolt pistol, artificer armor and refractor field and get a terminator armor. This will get you the same bonuses for 10 points less and the ability to move and still fire the psycannon 36". Although it will stop you from using the commissar lord model sadly.
Oh and swapping the storm bolter-carapace armor for artificer armor on the acolytes will further help keeping your inquisitor alive, at a loss of some firepower of course.

Hope it helps.

*Relurks*

[Selrahc]

Holocaust and Word of the Emperor are awesome.

Holocaust is awesome for Terminators fighting hordes. On an Inquisitor it represents a way to efficiently fry your entire retinue. I would definitely take it away from the Inquisitor and probably give it to the terminators instead.

Whoops! XD Oh, and I meant to write Force Weapon instead of Power Weapon...

That's a lot of points to sink into close combat weaponry for someone who looks geared to sit back and shoot.

[Wraith]

Also isnt it better to, since you aren't allowed to take 3 weapons, lose the bolt pistol, artificer armor and refractor field and get a terminator armor. This will get you the same bonuses for 10 points less and the ability to move and still fire the psycannon 36". Although it will stop you from using the commissar lord model sadly.

Excellent idea Zeeta, although not as much of a handicap as you'd think.

I had a similar problem recently - to whit, finding a Space Marine Librarian wearing a helmet. (My army are directly related to the Reasonable Marines, so I've made specifically sure that everyone has their hats on!)

The models in Terminator Armour, as he is equipped, all look like garbage to me. Even the special characters have no helmets on and are big chunks of metal that I REALLY can't be bothered with slowly gouging away until I can fit a new - none-Librarian shaped - helmet in their place.

So instead I bought this guy, and mounted him on a Terminator-sized base with a big rock to stand on. He's now as broad and tall as a guy in Terminator armour (not including his banner, even) and has the correct sized base, so hopefully I can't be accused of 'Counts As' shenanigans.
More importantly, he doesn't fall over his I bump him with my hand thanks to the big chunk of flint weighing him down.

...Which is a really long winded way of saying that, if you want to take a specific model and pretend that he's wearing Terminator Armour, just put it on an appropriate-sized base and add some stuff so that his profile looks more reasonable for Line Of Sight reasons.

[evisiron]

...Which is a really long winded way of saying that, if you want to take a specific model and pretend that he's wearing Terminator Armour, just put it on an appropriate-sized base and add some stuff so that his profile looks more reasonable for Line Of Sight reasons.

Which could cause trouble in a tournament. I would follow the bulk of the advice, but also use some Green Stuff or plasticard to bulk out his armour. The less it looks like standard power or artificer armour, the smoother things will go.

[hamishspence]

The models in Terminator Armour, as he is equipped, all look like garbage to me. Even the special characters have no helmets on and are big chunks of metal that I REALLY can't be bothered with slowly gouging away until I can fit a new - none-Librarian shaped - helmet in their place.

What's wrong with this guy?

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/ca...Id=prod1050251

Instead of gouging metal away, carefully apply greenstuff to create a helmet covering his face.

On the minus side, he is a bit overdecorated.

It might also be quite a bit of work to get a good-looking greenstuff helm.

[Closet_Skeleton]

You can make terminator characters out of plastic terminators. The Space Wolf ones are especially good for that, but have other problems.

Abaddon's model has a seperate head.

[Wraith]

On the minus side, he is a bit overdecorated.

It might also be quite a bit of work to get a good-looking greenstuff helm.

The two thoughts that also occurred to me. I also wanted a guy that owned at least one proper weapon, not just a Staff. For both instances using Green Stuff requires practice that I haven't got, and for my first effort I thought I would try something other than the HQ-centerpiece of my army

You can make terminator characters out of plastic terminators. The Space Wolf ones are especially good for that, but have other problems.

That is true, and something that I will consider for future projects. Money, however, is something of an issue and for what it would cost me to buy a plastic Terminator and all the bitz, Green Stuff and so on that I would want for the conversion I could have bought 2 of the mini's that I did end up using.

And to be honest, I like my beefed-up Librarian In Power Armour. I like that he seems to survive Lascannon shots to the face out of sheer audacity, even if it's just a momentary illusion before I check the list to see how tooled up he really is

[hamishspence]

The librarian comes with the bits to carry a weapon as well as the staff (the alternate hands, besides the empty hand, carry a storm bolter, and a combi-plasmagun.)

That said, if the power armoured guy looks good, it makes sense to use him.

[Lycan 01]

*Delurks*

Just have to point out that Grey Knight Terminators are 46 points a piece, with the Brother-captain weighting in at 61 points. Meaning those termies will go for a whooping 245 rather then the 145 you have written out.

Oh and a quick calculation of points shows gives me 1036 points, rather then 996, and that's even before the extra 100 for the termies.

Also isnt it better to, since you aren't allowed to take 3 weapons, lose the bolt pistol, artificer armor and refractor field and get a terminator armor. This will get you the same bonuses for 10 points less and the ability to move and still fire the psycannon 36". Although it will stop you from using the commissar lord model sadly.
Oh and swapping the storm bolter-carapace armor for artificer armor on the acolytes will further help keeping your inquisitor alive, at a loss of some firepower of course.

Hope it helps.

*Relurks*

Whoops.

Well, that throws my list into a tizzy...


Hey wait, where'd the extra 40 come from? I already calculated the FW as 40 points, I just accidentally wrote it as a Power Weapon.


Hm. Guess I'll have to relegate the Lord Commissar to being just a regular Commissar for the Platoon, and use the Termie Sarge as the Inquisitor. Pity. He's my favorite model, and I wanted him to do something more... awesome. Oh well. He'll still be saving the day for the Platoon, at least.

So lets see... I should give the IL Termie Armor, drop the Force Weapon, drop Holocaust, and keep him at a distance. Drop the Brother-Captain from the GK's, and maybe give them Holocaust. Then drop a few bits of gear and equipment to get it down to 1000 points. Anything else?

[Wraith]

The librarian comes with the bits to carry a weapon as well as the staff (the alternate hands, besides the empty hand, carry a storm bolter, and a combi-plasmagun.)

It was the lack of Force Weapon more than anything that made my mind up, as the Staff just doesn't do it for me.
That the Power Armoured guy's left arm is also completely replaceable, also made it much easier to give him a Storm Shield; all in all, far less hassle and much, much cheaper.

Anyways, I need to get back to 'my' Orks. A friend of mine bought 3 battlesets of them along with a couple of converted battlewagons, and then decided he wanted me to paint them for him. 61 Boyz and a Dreadnought in 14 hours can't be too bad, right? Only 30 moe and a small fleet of Wartrakks to go....

[Cheesegear]

So lets see... I should give the IL Termie Armor, drop the Force Weapon, drop Holocaust, and keep him at a distance.

I like the Force Weapon. It means if you're ranged unit gets into combat (which it most likely will), it means you aren't totally screwed.

Holocaust only kills your own unit if you're retarded. I've never had a problem with my Inquisitor using it. However, I really would think about grabbing a super-Psychic Hood.

Drop the Brother-Captain from the GK's

Read the rules. You can't.

[DranWork]

my flat mate collects orks, hes having quite the nightmare painting all of them. plus his 3 battle wagons, an his three truks, and his 160 boyz, 40 nobs, 3 painboys, 2 weird boys, 6 bikes... *sigh* pretty crazy army tho he hasent beat me yet (mainly due to tactical mistakes on his behalf and bad luck, like the time my assault squad killed 4 nob bikers by shooting them in one round..)

Must admit tho I rather enjoy playing against orks, tough if they get the charge, laughable shooting, random powers. Good for a laugh really.

[Cheesegear]

mainly due to tactical mistakes on his behalf and bad luck, like the time my assault squad killed 4 nob bikers by shooting them in one round...

That would have been amazing. Nob Bikers have 2 Wounds each and T5.

Must admit tho I rather enjoy playing against orks, tough if they get the charge, laughable shooting, random powers. Good for a laugh really.

What? You don't think Ork shooting is terrifying? I think your opponent might be playing his Orks wrong if you're laughing at him...

[DranWork]

Na hes not, hes just got horrid luck. For example he took 2 squads of lootas in one of our games, on all of his d3 rolls he got 1's or 2's (thus one shot) for 5 turns. His shoota boys are crazy yes, mobs of 20ish (battle wagon sized mobs) but he has no luck with rolling and only manages to hit around 6 shots a turn and wound with 2 or 3 shots. Or the time he took a looted wagon with the battle cannon thing and scattered into his mob of 20 boys that just disembarked and ended up killing 17 of them. Or when his shock attack gun (i think.. that random weapon that meks can take) blew up on the first turn and wiped out a whole squad of lootas and a truk filled with boys. Hes a great player just his luck sucks and his dice hate him, where as my luck is okay and my dice enjoy being avarage.

Hes still in the testing stages of his army at the moment and im fully expecting to see kans in our next game. He just needs to forget his tactics when he was a marine player and focus on trying to think like an ork.