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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ForzaFiori View Post
    Maybe have a feat to let you get extra brawler abilities too. If you can do it with maneuvers, why not these?
    Hrmm. Maybe.
    Also, I just realized a nasty combo.
    Dirty Fighting+Close and Personal+Hit em while they're down+Candy from a baby+ Clever Tactics+ Injury to Insult.

    As part of you're trip attempt, you move into the opponent's square. Close and Personal gives you an attack when you do this. Use that attack for Dirty Fighting, rendering them flat footed, this means Candy from a Baby gives you an additional bonus on your trip check.
    Injury to Insult+Imp Trip+Hewtd=2 attacks at a x2 bonus and they're tripped.
    If you also have sucker punch, that would be 2 attacks at a x3 bonus (IIRC DnD Multipliers are logarithmic, x2+x2=x3).
    Of course, such a combo requires ALOT of brawler abilities, so I'm okay with it. That's really a theme I like for the Brawler abilities. Individually they're okay, but they can synergize very well if you pick the right ones.
    Last edited by BRC; 2010-04-21 at 04:42 PM.

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    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    I love this class. I don't really have anything to add to it, I just wanted to sow my support.
    Are any of my tables still broken?



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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    The easiest way to prevent dips is thus:

    > Have the brawler gain brawler abilities on even levels. I.E., 2-4-6-8-10-12-14-16-18-20. It would still be dippable, but much less so for tight builds.

    That would result in a table kinda like this:
    {table=head]Level | Base Attack Bonus | Fort Save | Ref Save | Will Save | Special |
    1st | +1 | +2 | +0 | +0 | Improved Unarmed Strike, Brawler’s Fists (1d6) |
    2nd | +2 | +3 | +0 | +0 | Brawler Ability |
    3rd | +3 | +3 | +1 | +1 | Speak Softly |
    4th | +4 | +4 | +1 | +1 | Brawler Ability , Brawler’s Fists (1d8)|
    5th | +5 | +4 | +1 | +1 | Supernatural Brawler ability |
    6th | +6/+1 | +5 | +2 | +2 | Brawler Ability |
    7th | +7/+2 | +5 | +2 | +2 | Mighty Boast |
    8th | +8/+3 | +6 | +2 | +2 | Brawler Ability, Brawler’s Fists (1d10) |
    9th | +9/+4 | +6 | +3 | +3 | |
    10th | +10/+5 | +7 | +3 | +3 | Supernatural Brawler Ability, Brawler Ability|
    11th | +11/+6/+1 | +7 | +3 | +3 | |
    12th | +12/+7/+2 | +8 | +4 | +4 | Brawler Ability , Brawler’s Fists (2d6) |
    13th | +13/+8/+3 | +8 | +4 | +4 | Juggernaught |
    14th | +14/+9/+4 | +9 | +4 | +4 |Brawler Ability |
    15th | +15/+10/+5 | +9 | +5 | +5 |Supernatural Brawler Ability |
    16th | +16/+11/+6/+1 | +10 | +5 | +5 | Brawler Ability , Brawler’s Fists (2d8) |
    17th | +17/+12/+7/+2 | +10 | +6 | +6 | |
    18th | +18/+13/+8/+3 | +11 | +6 | +6 | Brawler Ability |
    19th | +19/+14/+9/+4 | +11 | +6 | +6 | Champion |
    20th | +20/+15/+10/+5 | +12 | +6 | +6 | Supernatural Brawler Ability, Brawler’s Fists (2d10) |
    [/table]

    There would be new dead levels at 9th, 11th, and 17th. Although I think Mighty boast is kinda weird at level 7 - it could be added to level 3 alongside speak softly. It would only be +1 attack/damage at level 3. Doing this would leave the following dead levels:

    7-9-11-17

    Level 17 could be "Boisterous Nature: At level 17th the Brawler can use his Mighty Boast as often as he desires. Furthermore, whenever he uses Mighty Boast he may make an intimidate check as a free action."

    Level 11 could be Massive Brute

    Level 9 and 7 could be... perhaps something that can double as non-combat abilities? I actually managed to think of some that fit the brawler:

    Level 7 – Hulking Roar: A 7th level Brawler can, as a swift action, let out a mighty bellow or proclamation. This roar can be heard over nearly any amount of noise, effectively making it a DC -50 listen check to hear him. This bellow can be used to make intimidate checks on all opponents in a 30ft radius, or just to be heard over a loud scuffle.

    Level 9 – Subtle Pump: At 9th level the Brawler gains the ability to intimidate with just a glance. Whenever the Brawler successfully intimidates a target they must make a sense motive check against the Brawler’s intimidate check or else think that the brawler wasn’t even trying to intimidate them. This doubles any penalties given by being intimidated and intimidated foes do not become unfriendly after the duration of the effect ends. Any onlookers that may also make a sense motive check against the brawler’s intimidate check. Failure means they do not notice that the brawler actively intimidated the target.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2010-04-21 at 06:32 PM.

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Hmm, Brawler abilities on even levels should work. Helps prevent Dips, but dosn't make Multiclassing impossible.

    As for an "Extra Brawler Ability" Feat. I think I'll allow it, but give it a requirement of Brawler Level 3rd or something.
    The point is, I don't want somebody taking 1 Brawler level in order to get 2 feats for the price of 1 with things like Brutal and Cunning tactics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    As for an "Extra Brawler Ability" Feat. I think I'll allow it, but give it a requirement of Brawler Level 3rd or something.
    The point is, I don't want somebody taking 1 Brawler level in order to get 2 feats for the price of 1 with things like Brutal and Cunning tactics.

    How about: Prerequisite : Base Attack Bonus +6, Two Brawler Abilties

    That requires you be at least a 6th level PC with at least 4 levels of Brawler. I'm not sure I'd let you take the feat multiple times, but this helps allow Brawlers to multi-class a little.

    What is your opinion on my other suggestions?

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    How about: Prerequisite : Base Attack Bonus +6, Two Brawler Abilties

    That requires you be at least a 6th level PC with at least 4 levels of Brawler. I'm not sure I'd let you take the feat multiple times, but this helps allow Brawlers to multi-class a little.

    What is your opinion on my other suggestions?
    I like them. I'll update the first post as soon as I get around to it.

    Edit: That feat format is good. It also stops a straight brawler from pulling off some of the nastier ability combos at low levels by spending Feats.
    Last edited by BRC; 2010-04-22 at 03:07 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    First post Updated. I need to clean up the formatting, but I'll do that later.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    So many people have independently thought of making unarmed warrior classes called "The Brawler", I've started collecting them... there's this one and this one and this one (cough) and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and, on a different board, this one, and I'm sure plenty more. Maybe someone should drop a hint to Wizards of the Coast.

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by NakedCelt View Post
    So many people have independently thought of making unarmed warrior classes called "The Brawler", I've started collecting them... there's this one and this one and this one (cough) and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and this one and, on a different board, this one, and I'm sure plenty more. Maybe someone should drop a hint to Wizards of the Coast.
    Lets compare!

    Spoiler
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    Brawler one – slightly changed monk. Whoop? Con to AC makes it a better dip choice for most martial PCs, though. Still can’t kill high level opponents.

    Brawler two – Way too many dead levels. If those levels were filled with useful abilities that played into the theme it could be good. Also, he needs some kind of ability to simply not die. “I have more power when between 0 and -22hp! Oh, you deal 30dmg a hit? Darn.”

    Brawler three – Really nice class to take a few levels in, but the constant cries of ‘nerf’ ‘nerf’ seem to have resulted in a lack of powerful kill-my-foes abilities later on. Then again, rage and full bab could make it an okay charging build. Except those builds usually want reach weapons. Edit: Looks like either the best or 2nd best of the first 9.

    Brawler four- Two dead levels and too many 1/day abilities. Also, this class is completely screwed up. It might actually be okay with full BAB, but it is such a messed up class. Wait, it has full bab -1. Weird.

    Brawler Five - Where is the class? Table was removed and never put back?

    Brawler Six – I might prefer monk over this class. I mean, I wouldn’t play either of them but I might at least dip into monk. He took away monk abilities to add full bab and light armor use.

    Brawler Seven – 5 dead levels. Also, not very strong. I would suggest having dirty fighting go back to working like skirmish and give the class the ability to make multiple attacks after moving.

    Brawler Eight - Brawler 3 does this better. This has 2 dead levels and at least monk is dip-worthy.

    Brawler Nine – This looks okay. I’d actually have to carefully study this one. Edit: Looks like the best or second best of the first 9.

    Darn, I am out of time. I am REALLY hoping one of the next Brawlers is totally awesome so I don’t sound overly pessimistic. BRC's is currently my favorite.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2010-04-24 at 10:06 AM.

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Looking good... Looks like you could use some more supernatural abilities, though. However, given its flavor, it seems that it would be best were they not overt.

    I do have an ulterior motive in that, though. One of my players in a low magic game is thinking on this class. :P
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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cute_Riolu View Post
    Looking good... Looks like you could use some more supernatural abilities, though. However, given its flavor, it seems that it would be best were they not overt.

    I do have an ulterior motive in that, though. One of my players in a low magic game is thinking on this class. :P
    AWESOME. Tell me how it goes.

    Some more Supernats would be nice, but I don't know what to do for those. They should be subtle things, not "The Brawlers fist lights on fire" or anything, externally, one shouldn't be able to recognize the ability at all, except through careful study. A Brawler may not even realize they possess these abilities. Upon being told that you need silver weapons to hurt werewolves, they might just say "Huh, you do? I headbutted one to death just last week". Maybe something like
    Warriors Blessing: Increase your Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution by 1 point.
    Tough Skin: You gain DR/- equal to your brawler level/5.
    Last edited by BRC; 2010-04-24 at 03:00 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Heheh, I will. It might be a bit, though, I'm still getting things together for it. And yeah, that's exactly the kind of things I was thinking. I'll think on it and get back to you with some more abilities. :3
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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    AWESOME. Tell me how it goes.

    Some more Supernats would be nice, but I don't know what to do for those. They should be subtle things, not "The Brawlers fist lights on fire" or anything, externally, one shouldn't be able to recognize the ability at all. Maybe something like
    Warriors Blessing: Increase your Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution by 1 point.
    Tough Skin: You gain DR/- equal to your brawler level/5.
    Warrior's Blessing seems good, but Tough Skin is kind of pointless. At level 5 you have DR1/-. At level 10 you have DR2/-. At level 15 you have DR3/-. At level 20 you only receive DR4/-.

    Brawler level divided by two might be a little better, but I won't swear that this won't seem very powerful at lower levels.
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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    It looks pretty cool at first glance. I think most of the rest of the people here have covered what I might say, but I do have one minor suggestion.

    Chair, Not a weapon!: A Brawler may use an improvised weapon without penalty, this weapon deals damage as one size larger than the Brawler’s unarmed strike, but cannot be used in conjunction with other special abilities.
    This ability is a little bit unclear, specifically the part about how much damage it deals. Does it deal damage as if the brawler were a size category larger, or does it deal damage equal to the next step up on the unarmed damage chart.

    For example, a 6th level brawler normally deals 1d8 damage with an unarmed strike. Would he deal 1d10, or 2d6 damage when using the 'Chair, not a weapon' ability? If it's the former, what happens if a level 20 brawler uses this ability?
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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    It looks pretty cool at first glance. I think most of the rest of the people here have covered what I might say, but I do have one minor suggestion.



    This ability is a little bit unclear, specifically the part about how much damage it deals. Does it deal damage as if the brawler were a size category larger, or does it deal damage equal to the next step up on the unarmed damage chart.

    For example, a 6th level brawler normally deals 1d8 damage with an unarmed strike. Would he deal 1d10, or 2d6 damage when using the 'Chair, not a weapon' ability? If it's the former, what happens if a level 20 brawler uses this ability?
    Chair, not a weapon does need a better description. Hrm, maybe like this.
    "Chair, not a weapon!": When using a large improvised weapon a Brawler takes no penalty. The weapon is counted as being wielded with both hands and cannot be finessed, When using such a weapon the brawler deals damage as if they were one size category larger and using their Unarmed Strike, or the damage the improvised weapon would do normally, whichever is higher.
    "Barroom Assassin": when using a small, sharp improvised weapon (Like a broken bottle), a Brawler takes no penalty on attack rolls. In addition, their critical hit multiplier with unarmed strikes goes up by one.
    Last edited by BRC; 2010-04-24 at 03:36 PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dsurion View Post
    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
    Quote Originally Posted by chiasaur11 View Post
    So, Astronaut, War Hero, or hideous Mantis Man, hop to it! The future of humanity is in your capable hands and or terrifying organic scythes.
    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Edit: Yeah, I think man of the book is underpowered. Replacing the joke +10 circumstance bonus on bluff checks made to convince people you know stuff about religion with the ghost touch ability. So Man of the Book is now the undead-ridden-game ability of choice. I changed the mindless undead/outsider ability to something more fun. Now it makes them both easier to run from and easier to chase down!
    Edit 2: Huh. I forgot that DR/Magic also causes your natural attacks to count as being magical...
    Edit 3: Added an ability to Man of the Streets.


    I was just thinking about the supernaturals.

    Suggestions:

    Man of the Land: The brawler gains scent, a +2 natural armor bonus, and his speed increases by 10ft. Also, the Brawler can ignore the racial immunities of plants, vermin, and magical beasts when making intimidate checks. He receives a -4 penalty if the creature would normally be immune to the attempt.

    Man of the Book: The brawler gains DR X/Magic, where X is equal to his class level divided by 4 (rounded down). Also, the Brawler can ignore the racial immunities of outsiders and undead when making intimidate checks. He receives a -4 penalty if the creature would normally be immune to the attempt. Mindless outsiders/undead that are intimidated in this way move at half speed. Furthermore, the brawler can now attack incorporeal targets as though his unarmed strikes had the ghost touch special quality.

    Man of the Inanimate: The brawler gains Resistance X against all elements, where X is equal to twice his class level. Also, the Brawler can ignore the racial immunities of elementals and constructs when making intimidate checks. He receives a -4 penalty if the creature would normally be immune to the attempt. Furthermore, the brawler no longer needs to eat, drink, or breathe although he can still do so. He still needs to sleep.

    Man of the Crazed: The Brawler gains 10ft Blindsight and becomes immune to any effect that would be suppressed by Protection From Evil. Also, the Brawler can ignore the racial immunities of fey and aberrations when making intimidate checks. He receives a -4 penalty if the creature would normally be immune to the attempt.

    Man of the Streets:: The Brawler can take '10' on any strength-based check, even when distracted or threatened. Also, the Brawler can ignore the racial immunities of humanoids, monstrous humanoids, and animals when making intimidate checks. He receives a -4 penalty if the creature would normally be immune to the attempt. I’m not sure there are any humanoids or animals that have such a racial immunity. Note that the ability would work for intimidate.

    I would change “Magic Hands” into the following:
    Edit: DR/magic grants the magic hands effect, so I added in "dress wearing pansy!" as well:

    Mage Puncher: A Brawler’s unarmed strikes are treated as Magic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and he gains Spell Resistance equal to 8 + his current Brawler level. Also, the Brawler can ignore magically granted immunities when making intimidate checks. This includes supernatural class abilities. He receives a -4 penalty if the creature would normally be immune to the attempt, which stacks with other abilities if the creature would normally be doubly immune (Like an undead lich that cast mindblank).



    I like the intimidate parts, not sure if I picked the right battle abilities to go with them.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2010-04-24 at 10:18 PM.

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Have you considered having the brawler be eligible for fighter bonus feats much in the same way Warblades are?
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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    I still love this class, by the way, and desperately want to try it out on a Thri-Kreen, but that's unrelated to the nature of this post.

    I wanted to comment on the Mage Puncher ability that Magikeeper suggested. In my opinion, SR 8+Class levels is kind of weak. Anything less than 10+Class levels is sort of a joke, because any caster who would bother targeting you can make the check more than 50% of the time. Just throwing that out there.
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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndworm View Post
    I still love this class, by the way, and desperately want to try it out on a Thri-Kreen, but that's unrelated to the nature of this post.

    I wanted to comment on the Mage Puncher ability that Magikeeper suggested. In my opinion, SR 8+Class levels is kind of weak. Anything less than 10+Class levels is sort of a joke, because any caster who would bother targeting you can make the check more than 50% of the time. Just throwing that out there.
    Which gives a % chance of a spell failing outright. I'd say that's pretty handy.
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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndworm View Post
    I still love this class, by the way, and desperately want to try it out on a Thri-Kreen, but that's unrelated to the nature of this post.
    You too, huh?

    On Mage Puncher I took that amount from the current DWP ability. No reason it couldn't be 10, although I'm not sure what the power level of the SBAs should be.

    I do think Man of the Land is a bit on the weak side, so

    Man of the Land: The brawler gains scent, a +2 natural armor bonus, and his speed increases by 10ft. The natural armor bonus stacks with similar bonuses and increases by 1 for every three class levels (rounded down). Also, the brawler can ignore the racial immunities of plants, vermin, and magical beasts when making intimidate checks. He receives a -4 penalty if the creature would normally be immune to the attempt.

    So, +3 AC at level 5, +4 at level 6, +5 at level 9, +6 at level 12, and after that AC doesn't matter. It probably doesn't matter at level 12, really. Might be worth taking early, not so much as one of the later abilities.



    Also, more suggestions:

    Fists you can Believe In: The brawler’s unarmed strikes count as one of the following per 5 levels: [Lawful, Chaotic, Good, or Evil] for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction. Furthermore, any enemy whose damage reduction can be overcome by the brawler receives a -10 penalty on intimidate checks against the brawler or any of the brawler’s allies. Finally, the brawler recieves a +X bonus on all saving throws where X is equal to the brawler’s level divided by 4 (rounded down).


    Here is one more ability. I’m not sure I like this one, but we have so many abilities that work great with this archtype:
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    Drunken Might: The brawler can consume alcohol to gain great power instead of great unconsciousness. The brawler can enter a transcendent state while drunk. This state is similar to a barbarian’s rage, except that the brawler gains the effect for as long as he is drunk, it gives him a +4 bonus on intimidate checks, and that it lasts for 3 rounds + # of pints of alcohol drunk since the brawler entered the state. Furthermore, while in the transcendent state the brawler can attempt to block one melee attack per pint by rolling an opposed attack roll against his opponent. If he succeeds, his opponent is hit by the attack instead. The brawler cannot be knocked unconscious by alcohol, does not have hangovers, and has the supernatural ability to get drunk from any alcoholic drink that could get a small child drunk even if the brawler is incapable of normally drinking things. Finally, the brawler heals 1hp/level per pint of alcohol drunk (which takes a move action to drink, as do pints drunk for other reasons).
    ^ Way too wordy.



    Here are some more normal brawler abilities:
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    The following ignore immunities as they are based on fear effects. So if you
    buff fear effects, you can use these too:

    Terrifying Visage: Any opponent demoralized or otherwise intimidated by the brawler is also shaken for the same duration. This ability ignores immunities.

    Heart Stopping Terror Any shakened, frightened, or panicked foe damaged by the brawler must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 brawler's level + Str) or be stunned for one round. A foe that was stunned is no longer shakened, frightened, or panicked when the stunning ends. This ability ignores immunities.


    ---------------------------


    Boisterous Nature needs descriptive text in the front post btw.
    Also, do Constant Sway + Big Stepper + Close and Personal form an infinite combo if you have 2+ enemies next to each other (Sway during the AoO to gain another AoO), or does CaP count against your AoOs for the round (at which point it isn’t an infinite combo until epic)? Or am I wrong?
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2010-04-28 at 12:36 AM.

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Hiya.
    I have a couple of ideas:
    A standard ability-
    Neck Snap
    Increase your threat range by one. This stacks with Improved Critical and similar effects.

    A Supernatural ability-
    Steel Fists
    All threats you make are automatically confirmed.

    I like this class. :3
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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    After building a character using this class, I can safely say that the brawler really relies on anyone with healing magic. The Brawler defensive prospects are very low, except for his d12 hit die of course :P. The brawler ability versus fear is quite nice, but it doesn't help against other will save effects, which will be key to eliminating or simply neutralizing the Brawler. If defensive abilities were made for the Brawler, it will detract greatly from his damage output due to having many choices with few slots to put them in.

    Otherwise, I currently see it as a fairly balanced glass cannon.
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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    By the way,
    I want to quote something Kuma Kode said.
    I've actually been looking for a decent unarmed class that isn't based around some kind of eastern lore. It seems Wizards of the Coast believe the Japanese invented the punch.
    Extended signature.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Alright, time for some full on comment responding
    Concerning Magikeeper's "Man of the" abilities. I don't know, they just don't seem to fit for some reason, maybe it's the names, maybe it's how they're multi-faceted while all the other abilities mainly just do one thing. I'll chew on them, but I dunno.
    Neck Snap seems like it should increase the multiplier, not the range.
    Averagedog: Did you actually play it, or just build it? Can we see the build you used? Also, how reliant are we talking. Is this "Strap a gnome cleric to your back or else you're dead meat" or "Buy the party healer a wand of CLW and a box of chocolates".

    How would people feel about giving them Evasion as a class feature (As opposed to a Brawler ability), improving their saving throws, or maybe let them use Potions as a Swift action?

    I think we should establish that either Constant Sway can't be used on an AoE, or that Close and Personal counts as an attack of opportunity.

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    Neck Snap seems like it should increase the multiplier, not the range.
    Averagedog: Did you actually play it, or just build it? Can we see the build you used? Also, how reliant are we talking. Is this "Strap a gnome cleric to your back or else you're dead meat" or "Buy the party healer a wand of CLW and a box of chocolates".
    You may be right. I couldn't think of a better name for a threat increaser...
    Also... Can I sig part of that? XD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    You may be right. I couldn't think of a better name for a threat increaser...
    Also... Can I sig part of that? XD
    Go right ahead.

    I have been informed that, as worded, Massive Brute could be interpreted as doing a good deal more than I intended it to, but that if I fix it, the Brawler will need more defensive stuff, preferably defensive stuff that dosn't eat up Brawler abilities.
    Also, I think I'm definetally going to give them Evasion.
    Here's one idea I had, dunno how well it would work.
    Flesh Wound: At Sixth Level, a brawler learns to shrug off trivial wounds. Any attack that fails to deal more damage than (Brawlers Hit Die+Brawler's CON modifier) has no effect. So against a 6th level brawler with 16 con, an attack that deals 10 damage would act as normal, while one that deals 9 damage would be negated.

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    I think that should be Class Level rather than hit dice.
    And thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    wow, while flesh wound is, by no doubt, pretty original. It is very overpowered. It essentially negates damage from physical ranged attacks and mooks. While it is by no doubt epic, it's potential in "real" situations does nothing against bigger badder enemies and completely negates a horde of mooks.

    Let's use the barbarian as an example: The barbarian get's DR 5 by level 19 and has access to feats that can increase the DR (especially if he has 20 con, see the monster manual feats for details). DR 5 doesn't negate all damage and only can against minor scratches or glancing wounds (though larger creatures generally do more than glancing blows, or if they are they really really hurt). Fleshwound on the other hand is currently so strong for reasons I have already stated :P.

    so basically, you are giving the brawler (Brawlers Hit Die+Brawler's CON modifier - 1) DR
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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    No, cause if you have DR 9 and get hit for 10 damage, you take one. If you have Flesh Wound, you take ten.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: The Brawler (Base Class, PEACH!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Averagedog View Post
    wow, while flesh wound is, by no doubt, pretty original. It is very overpowered. It essentially negates damage from physical ranged attacks and mooks. While it is by no doubt epic, it's potential in "real" situations does nothing against bigger badder enemies and completely negates a horde of mooks.

    Let's use the barbarian as an example: The barbarian get's DR 5 by level 19 and has access to feats that can increase the DR (especially if he has 20 con, see the monster manual feats for details). DR 5 doesn't negate all damage and only can against minor scratches or glancing wounds (though larger creatures generally do more than glancing blows, or if they are they really really hurt). Fleshwound on the other hand is currently so strong for reasons I have already stated :P.

    so basically, you are giving the brawler (Brawlers Hit Die+Brawler's CON modifier - 1) DR
    Flesh Wound was my Crazy Idea to throw out there before I move on to more sensible stuff, by which I mean one of two things.

    Of course, mind you, DnD Already has Mooks as fairly useless, this just makes them useless in a different way.
    Of course, it's also worthless against heavier hitters.
    1) Give the brawler ways to boost their AC
    or
    2) Give the brawler more hit points.

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    I don't know if you've noticed, but pretty much everything BRC posts is full of awesome.
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    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler

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