Let's Play: MSPaint Adventure: GenGame!

[BRC]

Well, yeah, but, the 5 are like the exception that proves the rule. N one will match them in their classes, so you need to try alternations to come close (And as you know, you should NEVER try to RPS the Five, I've seen a Teleking obliterated by Nowucme as a spy.) Man, I'd pay big money to be privately tutored by DrWutson. The dude INVENTED Combo-Biomancy.


Who thought they wouldn't?

I see the lesson the Five represent as different. They show that the Base Classes are not to be underestimated. Yes, nobody can match them, but you don't need to. You don't go up against the odds they do.
What happens is that most people who play the Base Classes are considered noobs, because they usually are. Once they play for abit, they tend to unlock some classes or get an expansion and switch to an expac-only class. Base classes can still be effective if played by experienced players. That's why, though I play Telekings, Dreamwalkers, madcrafters, and machinists, I still play Spy and Gunner.

Let me guess, back when you just started, you lost a good deal. Then you picked up B&B, tried out the Biomancer, and started winning. that may have to do with the Biomancer, but I think it has more to do with you. I propose an experiment, try playing a base class again. A Medic is probably the closest to a Combo Biomancer. Try it out and see how you do. You probably won't do as well as you do as a Biomancer because that appears to be your specialty, but I bet you'll still do pretty well.

This is especially true with the Spy, because, while the other classes tend to have more specialized versions available, the Spy does not. You've got the Hero, which also has a Genre Grid, and the Thief which has the whole "Stealth" thing that spies do, but there is no class that has both, that does what the Spy does. Psion's have Mindbenders, Elementalists and Telekings. Soldiers have Warlords, Blademasters, and countless others.

[flabort]

DrWuston? THE DrWuston? he's the guy who actually won a lawsuit against gencorp, right?
While I no doubt respect the other four of the five, I seriously think DrWuston is the undisputed best of them, followed directly by Nowucme. I mean, have you read his guide to minion crafting?! That's what inspired me to specialize into shadowcrafter in the first place. Here's his guide, and Here's the section about using a shadowcrafter in tandem with a biomancer. He's actually got every sentence properly capitalized, he's got tables -- TABLES -- describing what class features can combine to make what, and all sorts of goodies. He's got stuff from classes from ALL the expansions, and even shows how, of all classes, a hivemind can be part of the minion making processes, and can create some of the most powerful minions ever, provided there's someone on the team who's making other minions. Here's some pictures of those minions, snipped from his guide and put on a separate page.

[Bucky]

Well, yeah, but, the 5 are like the exception that proves the rule.

Err, are you forgetting the Psion/Mechanist/X rushdown teams that dominated all the major 3v3 tournaments two summers ago? Although to be fair, that was mostly an artifact of the minion reload glitch affecting Psion's Nova but not the Elementalist's Solar Flare, and the strategy died as soon as they fixed it.

[Draconi Redfir]

DrWuston? THE DrWuston? he's the guy who actually won a lawsuit against gencorp, right?
While I no doubt respect the other four of the five, I seriously think DrWuston is the undisputed best of them, followed directly by Nowucme. I mean, have you read his guide to minion crafting?! That's what inspired me to specialize into shadowcrafter in the first place. Here's his guide, and Here's the section about using a shadowcrafter in tandem with a biomancer. He's actually got every sentence properly capitalized, he's got tables -- TABLES -- describing what class features can combine to make what, and all sorts of goodies. He's got stuff from classes from ALL the expansions, and even shows how, of all classes, a hivemind can be part of the minion making processes, and can create some of the most powerful minions ever, provided there's someone on the team who's making other minions. Here's some pictures of those minions, snipped from his guide and put on a separate page.

i heard the guy has only one Heartgear on his KinglyKrown on his mechanist. Most players have at least twenty by that level.

the one gear on his krown? Only there because he destroyed one of his own minions when it bugged out and started running into a log during a fight.

[HypoSoc]

They show that the Base Classes are not to be underestimated.
What happens is that most people who play the Base Classes are considered noobs, because they usually are. Once they play for abit, they tend to unlock some classes or get an expansion and switch to an expac-only class. Base classes can still be effective if played by experienced players.

I'm sorry that I didn't clarify my view. Base Classes aren't bad Per Se, but they tend to over-generalize. With that kind of freedom, you end up Splitting the party (now, I don't want to start a Clump v Split flame, I'm just stating the ability to handle yourself allows you to Split from your group).

Let me guess, back when you just started, you lost a good deal. Then you picked up B&B, tried out the Biomancer, and started winning. that may have to do with the Biomancer, but I think it has more to do with you.

I found Biomancer because it was full of guides and allowed me to stay near team mates AND be useful. It has a fast pick-up rate, and it has lots of growing room.

This is especially true with the Spy, because, while the other classes tend to have more specialized versions available, the Spy does not. You've got the Hero, which also has a Genre Grid, and the Thief which has the whole "Stealth" thing that spies do, but there is no class that has both, that does what the Spy does. Psion's have Mindbenders, Elementalists and Telekings. Soldiers have Warlords, Blademasters, and countless others.

As I said before, generalization is a Split technique. (I'm a Clumper, so I can combo with my party, if you haven't guessed.) Its also true that two Good Spies would lose against a Good Hero and a Good Thief (Law of Minmaxing), even if, individually, they would be clobbered.

While I no doubt respect the other four of the five, I seriously think DrWuston is the undisputed best of them, followed directly by Nowucme. I mean, have you read his guide to minion crafting?! That's what inspired me to specialize into shadowcrafter in the first place. Here's his guide, and Here's the section about using a shadowcrafter in tandem with a biomancer. He's actually got every sentence properly capitalized, he's got tables -- TABLES -- describing what class features can combine to make what, and all sorts of goodies.

DrWutson ftw! You might notice many Combo communities try to use perfect grammar in their guides in order to emulate him. That's another advantage of Biomancer. In contrast, I once tried to read a 2SMKNBRRLES guide...
Let's just say I needed 3 or 4 leet translators before giving up.

[BRC]

DrWutson is probably the best guide writer amongst the 5, but I like nowucme's guides better. DrWutson tends to focus on specific strategies and combos, and his guides are full of details, diagrams, and charts, which is good, but it leads to lots of "Doclings".You know, players who blindly follow his guides without thinking, terrified to do anything DrWutson hasn't laid out for them. For Example, the ones who try to follow stealthed spies into enemy lines to pull off the Adrenal Rush combo, because DrWutson's guide read like this
Step 3: Cast Adrenal Boost on the Spy.
Step 4: Have the Spy backstab an enemy, triggering the Adrenal Rush.

Forgetting that Adrenal Boost can be cast up to three minutes before the spy triggers the Rush by critting. Instead, because Step 4 comes right after Step 3, and because they never actually learned how to play besides following his guides, they try to follow the Spy around so they can hit them with the Boost right before they backstab.
You can Identify them easily, they tend to pause for long periods of time as they flip through the guide to find the right strategy.
Watching two of them try to pull of something complex like his "Flying Fortress" Biomancer/Machinist combo is simply saddening.
But that's just me. I prefer nowucme's more general approach to guide-writing. He tells you how to play, not what to do. he gives you general tips, tells you which abilities are more useful, things to watch out for when going up against certain classes or bosses, ect. Strategies, but not Tactics if you get what I mean. His guides are also alot shorter than DrWutson. I mean, it makes sense, since DrWutson's specialty is support classes like the Medic and Biomancer that rely on combos, while nowucme prefers more "Standalone" Classes like spies and rangers. Once again, it's just a taste thing.

That said, I believe 2SMKNBRRLS to have both anger management issues, and a broken keyboard. I've actually waded through his guide on Sniping, and with the exception of stating which high-level rifles are "PWNZORZ", which ones are "N00bTRAPS", and which are simply "TehSuk", it was almost completely devoid of any advice you couldn't get from those annoying "Strategy Tip" popups that everybody disables after 30 seconds. Only the popups are spelled correctly.

I really wish MasterMined would write a good guide to Telekings, or any psionic class really, but he's got the whole "Enigmatic legend" image he tries to maintain. The closest he gets is briefly commenting on other people's guides, usually just stuff like "Good advice concerning Barrier" or "So very wrong about Confusion"

[Cute_Riolu]

FFFFF... you guys are going to have to stop this, you're making me want to play a game that doesn't exist.

(I'm kidding. At least about the stopping. :P)

[Mewtarthio]

As I said before, generalization is a Split technique. (I'm a Clumper, so I can combo with my party, if you haven't guessed.) Its also true that two Good Spies would lose against a Good Hero and a Good Thief (Law of Minmaxing), even if, individually, they would be clobbered.

Sure, if they're in a fair fight. If you're getting into a fair fight as a Spy, though, you're doing it wrong!

Yes, Spies encourage lots of Splitting. But you know what? They are, hands down, the single best class at Splitting. Seriously, let's try and set up a 10v10 match on the GitP servers. I know a couple of other players whose Spy skills I can vouch for, so I'll just need seven other guys to fill out the roster with some defense-oriented classes. You can build yourself the best 10-man clump you can find, but I guarantee that my team will wipe you out.

[BRC]

Sure, if they're in a fair fight. If you're getting into a fair fight as a Spy, though, you're doing it wrong!

Yes, Spies encourage lots of Splitting. But you know what? They are, hands down, the single best class at Splitting. Seriously, let's try and set up a 10v10 match on the GitP servers. I know a couple of other players whose Spy skills I can vouch for, so I'll just need seven other guys to fill out the roster with some defense-oriented classes. You can build yourself the best 10-man clump you can find, but I guarantee that my team will wipe you out.

I'm a spy fan, but I wouldn't be so sure. Not in a 10v10, by that point it's less about Split v Clump, and more about Variety v Every member of your team is the same class. With that many spies on one team, you'll run out of backs to stab.

At anything above 6v6, having a homogeneous team is a REALLY bad idea. I mean, it tends to be a bad idea anyway, but it's even worse with big teams.

Now, make that 3 spies splitting vs a clump of 3, yes.

[Mewtarthio]

I'm a spy fan, but I wouldn't be so sure. Not in a 10v10, by that point it's less about Split v Clump, and more about Variety v Every member of your team is the same class. With that many spies on one team, you'll run out of backs to stab.

You misunderstand me. I mean three spies splitting, plus seven other guys who mainly run a Mechanofortress-centric strategy, will beat a clump of ten any day of the week. If the spies know what they're doing, the clumpers have to split to beat you (unless Castle Bane spawns; then everything goes up in smoke). I've seen it in practice: It's a simple strategy that the clumpers cannot ever beat. And, no, it's not something that needs nerfing: Anyone with decent experience at Splitting can counter it, 'cuz that's how the game's meant to be played!

[BRC]

You misunderstand me. I mean three spies splitting, plus seven other guys who mainly run a Mechanofortress-centric strategy, will beat a clump of ten any day of the week. If the spies know what they're doing, the clumpers have to split to beat you (unless Castle Bane spawns; then everything goes up in smoke). I've seen it in practice: It's a simple strategy that the clumpers cannot ever beat. And, no, it's not something that needs nerfing: Anyone with decent experience at Splitting can counter it, 'cuz that's how the game's meant to be played!

Ah, sorry. I thought you meant "Ten Spies, each one splitting".
The Strategy is good, but not quite as unbeatable as you say. First of all, it relies on the Spies being good enough to take the Lands without support, and do so quickly. If one of the spies fails, the tactic falls apart. Also, if the other team knows you're trying it, they'll usually send a small group to harass your spies. Or just split their Clump into smaller groups.

Though if your point is to show the superiority of Split Spies vs Clumps, then forcing your opponents to unclump or lose proves your point.

[HypoSoc]

For Example, the ones who try to follow stealthed spies into enemy lines to pull off the Adrenal Rush combo, because DrWutson's guides read like this
Step 3: Cast Adrenal Boost on the Spy.
Step 4: Have the Spy backstab an enemy, triggering the Adrenal Rush.

That is true, if you skim the guide, but a true follower will note that he attempts to dissuade that by stating these are suggestions and tactics without variation will crumble. DrWhatsons are the most annoying players I've met, ,besides 2SMKNBRRLers of course (why does such a good player taunt like an adolescent?) since they think they are instant masters. I do not let any of those people on my team, and I show them exactly why straight tactics fail (I mean, half of his guides are about beating his own guides).

Sure, if they're in a fair fight. If you're getting into a fair fight as a Spy, though, you're doing it wrong!

Yes, Spies encourage lots of Splitting. But you know what? They are, hands down, the single best class at Splitting. Seriously, let's try and set up a 10v10 match on the GitP servers. I know a couple of other players whose Spy skills I can vouch for, so I'll just need seven other guys to fill out the roster with some defense-oriented classes. You can build yourself the best 10-man clump you can find, but I guarantee that my team will wipe you out.

I never said fair fight, I meant Spy Fight.
Also, Clumping with more than 3 or 4 is bound to fail. I mean the idea of staying in groups and being accessible to each other at the cost of speedy quest completion. Its a safer, more efficient tactic that leads to good group work. Although, I have seen a 10-Clump of Vance Guarders (Defensive Destruction) surrounding some Telekings and Machinists.

I'm a spy fan, but I wouldn't be so sure. Not in a 10v10, by that point it's less about Split v Clump, and more about Variety v Every member of your team is the same class. With that many spies on one team, you'll run out of backs to stab.

At anything above 6v6, having a homogeneous team is a REALLY bad idea. I mean, it tends to be a bad idea anyway, but it's even worse with big teams.

Now, make that 3 spies splitting vs a clump of 3, yes.

Variety is necessary for balance. The only exception is Hivemind, which is admittedly pretty cool when you have more than 6. As for the Split Spies vs Clump, the Clump would win against individuals Spies for the most part. Spies are great for Splitting, but they are also horrible at hurting small Clumps.

Ah, sorry. I thought you meant "Ten Spies, each one splitting".
The Strategy is good, but not quite as unbeatable as you say. First of all, it relies on the Spies being good enough to take the Lands without support, and do so quickly. If one of the spies fails, the tactic falls apart. Also, if the other team knows you're trying it, they'll usually send a small group to harass your spies. Or just split their Clump into smaller groups.

Though if your point is to show the superiority of Split Spies vs Clumps, then forcing your opponents to unclump or lose proves your point.

Two words: Mechano-Scout. Now I don't favor clumps more than 3, but in that Vancer-Teleking-Mechanist Clump, the Mechanist sends out Mechano-Scouts. They are fast, stealthy, and just strong enough to take out the Spies.

[Draconi Redfir]

You can Identify them easily, they tend to pause for long periods of time as they flip through the guide to find the right strategy.
Watching two of them try to pull of something complex like his "Flying Fortress" Biomancer/Machinist combo is simply saddening.

h'uh. all this time i thought they were just watching the latest episode of "Gengirls gone wild" ... not that i ever watch that on my Genglasses while i play of coarse...

FFFFF... you guys are going to have to stop this, you're making me want to play a game that doesn't exist.

(I'm kidding. At least about the stopping. :P)

we all do.



i'm actually not 100% on Spy's killing and backstabbing people, that’s kind of going into assassin territory.


i played a game with a spy who snuck into the enemy mechanofortress and managed to walk in on the enemy team having a meeting to discuss their strategy, drawing on a map and everything.

needless to say he transmitted what he heard to us, we quickly produced a counter strategy, and the game was over before they could claim their first land.

now THAT is spying.

[HypoSoc]

i'm actually not 100% on Spy's killing and backstabbing people, that’s kind of going into assassin territory.


i played a game with a spy who snuck into the enemy mechanofortress and managed to walk in on the enemy team having a meeting to discuss their strategy, drawing on a map and everything.

needless to say he transmitted what he heard to us, we quickly produced a counter strategy, and the game was over before they could claim their first land.

now THAT is spying.

I think the idea of Spy-Assassins goes back to something called Team Fortress. You'd have to check with a video-historian.

[BRC]

2SMKNBRRLS is a good enough player that he dosn't NEED any good taunts.
((So I got bored and modified some old Arts I had lying around into a Teleking and a Biomancer.

Spoiler

Show

))

[Domochevsky]

> SM: Put down the SACRED FLAME (don't want anything to happen to it during a fight) as well as the NOTES, before attacking the RUNED SHADOWBEAR in a rather ORDINARY manner.







Welp, that SHADOWBEAR looks like he could provide a challenge, and you certainly could use some more practice with the interface in general.

So let's do this!

> Runed -Bearcolyte: Continue being satisfactorily bear-like.

[Domochevsky]

> Runed -Bearcolyte: Continue being satisfactorily bear-like.

> ==>

[Domochevsky]

> ==>





...ow. You think you blinked there for a moment. What happened?

> RUNED SHADOWBEAR: Claim the SACRED FLAME for yourself.

[HypoSoc]

>SM: DISTANCE SELF from MAGICKY SHADOWBEAR and try REACH ATTACKS.

[The Dark Fiddler]

>Runed -Bearcolyte: Apologize to the nice lady. You were scared is all, and your bear-instincts took over and you're sure she never meant to hurt y-

>SM: FULL-OUT ATTACK

[Lucid_Archon]

>SM: Reckless apply SACRED FLAME to the bear's face.

[BRC]

A Spellcaster, clearly smarter than the average bear.
Assume the Lurking Mantis Stance, providing a bonus to disrupting spellcasting.

[Draconi Redfir]

new pages are awsome, loved the stretching one. long wait time is forgivven

>SM: ENRAGED BADGER UPPERCUT!

[flabort]

Activate the PORTABLE "MEAT" SHIELD that MG made for you. It's repeated scratch damage attacks should keep the bear distracted

[Mewtarthio]

>RUNED SHADOWBEAR: Claim the SACRED FLAME for yourself

[Draconi Redfir]

>BH: notice SM's peril and do something to help her out.

[AgentPaper]

So, we're thinking of creating a separate discussion thread, and want to know what you guys think.

Now, this isn't because we think the current discussion is "cluttering" the thread. Even with heavy discussion it's not hard for me to find the commands and the links to the next update are there for a reason, after all. However, we've gotten the impression that some of you are uncomfortable with posting anything other than commands here, (apart from the occasional background discussions that pop up and are then swiftly killed by the next update) so...

[Arbane]

I'd say leave it all in one thread--it's part of the fun.

[BRC]

Yeah, having a thread just to discuss a made up video game would be silly.
Whereas what we do now is perfectly reasonable.

[Draconi Redfir]

I think the discussions mainly arise because people can’t think of additional commands, and still wish to contribute to the comic somehow. Plus its a good way of keeping the thread active during the long wait periods involved in producing scratch updates (i.e. not using pre-existing backgrounds as i have seen you do) and videos. If we transfer the discussions of the game mechanics to another thread, then this one will most likely sink to the 2nd or third page under more active ones like star and minecraft.


If people are only comfortable making commands, that is totally fine. It provides more material for you to work with right?

And if anything, discussions are only killed by updates because said updates give us a ton of new command ideas to enter. when we run out, we start discussing the game again until the next update.

Lather, rinse, repeat.