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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    New poster, and I hope like heck this isn't casting Raise Dead on the thread:

    how would your revamped Fists of Iron interact with the Improved Natural Attack feat?

  2. - Top - End - #272
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    The thread is three years old. That's definitely a solid necro.

    Then again it has posts from this year in it. So it wouldn't really be a necro. Hmm...
    -----
    Anyway, the way Fist of Iron was written suggests that he does not want it to stack with other things. Balance wise it probably should stack, as stacking damage die increases is the main method monks use to increase their DPS and it's one of the few effective methods at that.
    Last edited by Doxkid; 2013-09-18 at 06:26 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Quote Originally Posted by Doxkid View Post
    The thread is three years old. That's definitely a solid necro.

    Then again it has posts from this year in it. So it wouldn't really be a necro. Hmm...
    It's a necro because the previous post was well over six weeks ago.
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    I believe necromancy is 'last post was longer than three months ago', so...
    I think they're a little laxer, especially in homebrew.

    As written, Fists of Iron doesn't work with Improved Natural Attack. Whether it's meant to... you'll have to hope jiriku turns up.

    Edit: Nope, last six weeks.
    Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2013-09-18 at 07:44 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    I think they're a little laxer, especially in homebrew.
    'Brewers can freely necro and double-post in their own homebrew threads. Others get no special permissions to do either, although I think thread locking is less common.
    Quote Originally Posted by Water_Bear View Post
    That's RAW for you; 100% Rules-Legal, 110% silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamishspence View Post
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  6. - Top - End - #276
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Jiriku has turned up!

    To clarify for other consumers of this thread, Fists of Iron does not stack with Improved Natural Attack, or any other method of adding virtual size category increases to the monk's attacks. The reason for this is two-fold:

    1) Fists of Iron already includes an auto-stacking feature that unlocks as you level up. It's my intent in d20 Remix that you SHOULD NOT NEED to spend feat after feat on the same darn thing over and over again just to keep your abilities relevant as you level up.

    2) The remixed monk deals great damage right out of the box, and allowing a player to stack damage increases from every source under the sun could enable construction of a broken character that deals too much damage to fit within a balanced party.


    Community request: Can anyone point me towards a resource telling me how to make all my tables work under the new forum? They all seem to be broken and I have dozens of them to repair across all my homebrew.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2014-04-03 at 12:21 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Additionally, somebody appears to have posted a converter in this thread. I can't speak for how useful it is though, since most of my own homebrew (in sig) tables were computer generated (a necessary step to get them working with the EZ compiler), and I changed the code and re-generated them.
    Last edited by JeminiZero; 2014-05-11 at 12:06 AM.
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  9. - Top - End - #279
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    The monk table has been updated and now displays correctly. I've updated the class with some additional tweaks that reflect lessons learned over the past year or two of gaming:

    • Restored skill progression to 10 + Int per level. Although this has been opposed previously, extensive gameplay has shown that it really works exactly right. Players familiar with my homebrew will note that the daring outlaw, which I promote as a rogue replacement, also obtains 10 + Int skill points per level.
    • Empty Strike no longer grants Wisdom bonus to damage rolls. However, the Fists of Iron feat now grants that benefit. This replaces the previous effect of Fists of Iron and moots the recent discussion about that feat. This change is to tone down the monk's damage output, which could easily become broken under heavy optimization.
    • Improvements have been made to Moment of Perfection and Timeless Body.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2014-05-26 at 10:09 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Moment of Perfection doesn't state frequency, btw - I'm assuming it's meant to be 1/day?
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Once per encounter. I have updated the feature description to make that more clear.
    D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Newest: shadowcaster. Most popular: monk and fighter.

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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    This complaint struck home for me, and I've been thinking about it for months. To address it, I've now moved the monk's Disable Device, Open Locks, and trapfinding into an ACF called School of the Nimble Hand. The default monk will have Decipher Script, Forgery, and Research as a bonus feat, and can trade these things for School of the Nimble Hand.
    I just wanted to point out that oddly this trapfinding stuff is actually very old school for the monk as in 1e they could find and remove traps and the like. So really that ability was just ataking them back to their roots. Considering that the 1e monk is the real basis of the 3e monk this really does fit.

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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    You make a good point, Meepos. The 1st edition monk was heavily influenced by the 1st edition thief. One of the things I've tried to do when I come across something that doesn't work in a 3.5 class is to pull out my old books and look at what that class used to do in earlier editions. Often, I can revive a class just by giving it back what it used to have, or by adding a new ability that's inspired by an old, forgotten one.
    D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Newest: shadowcaster. Most popular: monk and fighter.

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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Again, I love this class. I'm going to be using it in a game soon, and the DM running it was playing the class before now as a player.

    I noticed one thing (never was an issue for the now-DM, he took Esoteric Weapons Training to use a bow) I'm not sure of. I don't see anywhere that "special monk weapons" are defined. Which count? The original monk tells you in the flurry of blows text: "When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham)."
    What are special monk weapons for the remix monk? The same? Expanded at all to include more of his simple weapon proficiencies?

    EDIT: I'm partly wondering b/c if it's not expanded, isn't the Ki Shot class feature useless without the Esoteric Weapon Training feat? None of the original special monk weapons are ranged.
    Ki Shot (Su): Beginning at 5th level, a monk learns to embrace the tranquility and grace of the perfect shot, and may empower ranged attacks with ki. Once per day, she may ignore range increment penalties with special monk weapons and apply her ki strike to any ranged attacks she makes with special monk weapons for one round. If she has the Stunning Fist feat, she may use this ability additional times per day by expending a use of Stunning Fist for each additional use of Ki Shot.

    Spoiler: Design Notes:
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    Improving the monk's ranged capabilities. At its basic level, this feature is nothing special, but when combined with Esoteric Weapon Training (longbow), Improved Ki Strike, and Stunning Fist, the monk can deliver formidable ranged attacks.
    Last edited by StreamOfTheSky; 2015-11-20 at 10:53 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Oops, I discovered this gem a little too late, haven't I?

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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    *Casts raise dead upon the thread.*
    Last edited by jiriku; 2016-08-24 at 10:21 AM.
    D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Newest: shadowcaster. Most popular: monk and fighter.

    Innovative new mid-tier classes compatible with 3.x and 3.x Remix: Machinist, Shapeshifter, Avatar, Magus of Blades, Ritualist, Magician, Dawnblade, Summoner, plus 5 elemental casters!


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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Does this mean you'll be doing further updates to this, Jiriku?
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    While I have been contemplating revisiting the monk for quite some time, I went back to college three years ago and I haven't had much time for this since then. I don't expect that to change until graduation. However, I got a PM from someone who wanted to ask questions about the class, so I revived the thread to permit posting without calling down modly wrath for thread necromancy.

    I uhh, do have a warlock Remix 98% finished, but my motivation broke down with that last 2% incomplete so it's just been sitting on my hard drive for the past few weeks.
    D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Newest: shadowcaster. Most popular: monk and fighter.

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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Understandable. And I'd look forward to seeing what you can do with Warlock.
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Um, well, less, questions, and more ideas for tinkering based on play and observation and thoughts on things none casters need/benefit from and that fit certain themes.


    Toward that end, this is gonna be long winded.


    Spoiler: Related to gear dependency.
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    Ok, so, I've looked at Greater Ki Defense and Greater Ki Strike. There helpful, but I can't help but feel like unless there both gonna be bonus feats (I don't mean the kind were you pick them off a list or pick one or the other, I mean the kind were at a set level you just flat get it, period. And again, that's for both of them.) that they should just be class features instead. The idea is there, but it doesn't feel fully realized on that front. I'd also add related to them that letting greater Ki defense pick up more in the way of how many bonuses it can apply at a time would not hurt. (Nore would adding heavy Fortification and Freedom of movement to the defense list.)

    As it stand, the way I'm reading Defense in particularly, I can get 1 +4 Armor ability at most in my whole career. Meanwhile the Rogue/Ranger/Scout bought a +1 Chainshirt, a +1 Buckler, and put Animated on the Buckler. Then he cut some deal with the cleric for Magic Vestments on his Armor and shield, and in addition to an extra +6 AC, has +16 worth of special property's.

    Now, potential for a higher Dex, and Wis (again, potentially very high Wis at that.) to AC will mitigate that AC bonus. But what about that +4 worth of Armor Properties vs +16? Even if I'm being VERY conservative, over the career, I'm still at +4 Special properties vs. +9 for just armor.



    And to top it off, the Ranger/Rogue/Scout get's to have there magic weapon properties (and comparable bonus to me for, at most, a 3rd level pearl of power and maybe a chunk of the price of a lesser rod of extend spell and 1 scroll 1 time, and that's with just core.) And the armor property. Meanwhile, the Monk, unless he makes it a point to qualify for both feats independent of the 1 bonus feat at level 10, has to choose weapon abilities, or armor abilities, but needs both just the same. And again, my reading says, 1 ability on that weapon, while the Ranger/Rogue/Scout can afford at least +5 worth on 2 weapons or if there using 1 weapon, can go to +9 worth of special abilities.


    Now, true, I can change them more easily, but that's NOT that big an advantage outside of VERY low level/low op game play. The level were a core PHB monk might be able to keep up on it's own or Kensai would be an amazing PRC instead of interesting but not terribly potent.

    So, related to those two feats, I think I would suggest making them class features, and moving them to scale up some so that more bonuses can be acquired over a career. (The points mentioned are NOT start points, there end points. Just, to make sure I'm coming through clearly on that. ) Given also that, on top of the above, simply picking up Carmadine Monk or Astetic Mage or Kung Fu Genius could lock you out of having access to them as presently configured. Or at least to both of them, when the intent seems to be that you could get both of them. Or a DM that bans Psiconics and won't let you put ranks in Autohypnosis.




    This leads to the second thought I had.

    The 2 feats/class features are covering 2 of the bigger requirements for basic functionality in the game for martial/skill characters. Magic Weapons and Magic Armor. And there are some class features to help take care of the skill use side of this.

    But what about those flat, static, expensive bonuses required for stats and saves to keep them up to snuff? That cloak of resistance, the Periphery of Wisdom, the Amulet of Health, The Gloves of Dex or Gauntlets of Oger Power/Belt of Giants Strength, and the various tomes at higher levels. You have to have all of them, there boring, there a gear dependency, and there one you have to tolerate.

    But what if you didn't? What if, for these bonuses, you had a class feature or two, spread out over 20 levels, giving you a +5 Resistance Bonus to saves, a +6 Enchantment Bonus to Wis (or Cha/Int if you have Ascetic mage or Carmine Monk/Kung Fu Genius.), a +6 Enchanment Bonus to Con, A +6 Enchantment Bonus to either Str or Dex depending on the characters general preference for one or the other at level 1, and also gave a +5 Inherent Bonus to those same stats.

    Not all at once, you'd start off with like a +2 Enchantment bonus to the stats and a +1 Resistance bonus to saves when the class features come online. Over time they'd build up. And by Mid levels you'd have your +6 Enchantment bonuses and start picking up Inherent bonuses 1 at a time over the remainder of the career. Finishing at like, level 17 or 18 so that there are a couple of levels left to actually enjoy the bonuses.

    They don't really need much of the standard gear items now with these changes/add ons, so there not gear dependent and indeed, are highly self sufficient, but the bonuses can't be stacked with them anyway, so pile it on play is avoided. And it frees up gold in a standard wealth by level game to do other things. Buy items that are cool or flavorful or novel but not essential under normal circumstances. Give money to charity in character in amounts that really have some oomph. Put that money into a nation building experiment if there so inclined/it's the right kind of game. Options are on the table.


    Spoiler: Related to Mobility.
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    So, the next point is actually more straight forward. I'd like to propose a pair of monk feats and a tweak to the wording of one class feature, to help improve the monks mobility. It's good, but I feel like this would really clench it.

    Tweak: The class feature, it's really more an editing tweak. Dance with the elements has a mention in the design notes that it should be compatible with haste. It might not hurt to just add a sentence explicitly mentioning that in the actual class feature description at the end. "This movement speed explicitly stacks with castings of the Haste spell.". or something.


    Feats: There are 2 I'd like to propose making options. (These are first passes at the basic idea. )

    Leaf On The Wind:

    Prerequisite: Dance With The Elements Class feature. Flurry Of Blows class feature.

    Benefit: A number of times per day equal to your Wisdom Modifier (Or Charisma, or Intelligence, if you are using a feat such as Astetic Mage or Kung Fu Genius or Carmine Monk.) + 1, you may activate this feat as a swift action. Once activated, for the following ten rounds, you may choose to expend your swift action to move up to your speed, including improvements from outside sources such as the hasten spell. This movement provokes AoO's as normal, and is subject to reductions in speed if the player attempts to use it in combination with applicable circumstances, such as using the tumble skill. This is an extraordinary ability.



    Tigers Pounce:

    Prerequisite: Dance With The Elements class feature. Flurry Of Blows class feature. BAB +6/+1.

    Benefit: Upon taking this feat, a Monk has trained himself in the art of closing quickly with an opponent and incapacitating him in an efficient manner. He gains the benefits of the Pounce Ability, as Described in the Monster Manual. This is an extraordinary ability.



    Not everyone needs one or both, so by making them feats, it gives players the option to have something good to fit that fast melee skirmisher fighting style (Cause I can not recall the last time I tried to build something like that or help with building something like that were dipping for Pounce and Dipping Cleric for Travel Devotion and Turn Undead to fuel it weren't the first thing I did.), while requiring a wait and a resource investment so as not to make Monk a cheap go to dip to get his on other builds. And by having that + the Existing options for Damage and Debuffing and the other mobility increasers already on the table out of the box, everything that could reasonably be needed at up to high end of Mid Optimization for that play style is all available in one convenient location.



    Spoiler: Lastly: Combat Manuver Checks.
    Show
    Ok. So.

    Experience has taught that the higher level one get's, the harder it is to use things like grappling and tripping. Monsters get bigger, get crazy high Str, get full BAB, Get big size bonuses and benefits to there checks to resist and use these tactics against you.

    Even at low levels, you learn you want Powerful Build or Enlarge Person and Expansion or just a size large race to use these things effectively.

    Now, the Monk as presented, with the 2 stats, gets around the BAB and high stat requirements with some proper investment in those 2 stats. But the Size Modifiers do have a tendency to put it over the top.

    Therefor, I propose a class feature.

    All The Force Of A Great Typhoon:

    For the purposes of determining results of contested combat maneuver checks such as Grappling, Tripping, Bulls Rush, Over Run and Trample, The Monk, starting at 1st level, is treated as size category large, and gains the applicable benefits related to those checks. If he has a feat/magic item/ext that requires or benefits him being smaller then his opponent for such a check, for the purpose of using that feat/magic item/ext, he is teated as his normal size category, but still gains the benefits of this class feature.

    He gains no other penalties or benefits associated with this size category from this class feature. If he is subjected to something that would increase his size, such as an enlarge person spell, this class feature bumps up to the next size category for it's benefits, up to a maximum of Colossal +, for the duration.

    Advancement: At level 4, The Monk is treated as size category Hugh for these check bonuses. At level 8, The Monk is treated as size category Gargantuan. At level 12. The Monk is treated as size category Colossal. At level 16, The Monk is treated as size category Colossal +.





    The idea here is to keep the Monk at even or 1 step advantage on these checks against common enemy's appropriate to his level for most of his career. He still isn't getting the full BAB and dedicated Str some of them are, but it makes him consistently stay competitive through out his career, meaning there's more incentive to branch out and try these things instead of just sticking too "I hit it with my fists, I roll damage" EVERY round in EVERY fight. Further, it removes the block of "Well, It's Size Category Hugh so I can't even attempt to make checks against it on my own, so, yeah." problem that starts to creep in around mid level game play and get's worse as the game progresses. The added versatility will keep the class fun and fresh longer. And the fact that he's not getting reach or size bonuses to STR if he's focusing on STR means there's room to still build an STR based monk and get something nice, and incentive to be willing to at least still think about size change magic effects, so it doesn't render them totally useless either.



    So, yeah, that was long and poorly typed as I had about 6 hours of sleep after being up for 24. I think I'm gonna go hit the sack again. Let me know what you think on these observations/ideas.
    "I Burn!"

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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    I would encourage you to experiment with these ideas and see if they can work in your campaign. For myself, I am reluctant to make any changes that directly increase the combat effectiveness of the monk. My play experience over the past several years has been that it is already a brutally effective melee damage dealer. Adding more kindling to the fire could burn down party balance altogether.
    D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Newest: shadowcaster. Most popular: monk and fighter.

    Innovative new mid-tier classes compatible with 3.x and 3.x Remix: Machinist, Shapeshifter, Avatar, Magus of Blades, Ritualist, Magician, Dawnblade, Summoner, plus 5 elemental casters!


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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Duly noted.

    I will mention I've experimented with not exactly the same thing, but something not too terribly dissimilar, to a few of these options I'm proposing.

    I've either dipped Cleric or Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian, or Totemist, or picked up an affiliation that gave me Turn undead (and perhaps travel devotion as a bonus feat.) and bought reliquary holy symbols, or granted either pounce, or access to the Sphinx Claws Soul Meld. Because of how Flurry already works, it was helpful, but not overwhelming in my experience. It gave me room to play a hit and run fighting style very effectively, and more importantly, very intuitively.


    And haste stacking has been a house rule more often then is has not for me, and it really does feel like "And now everyone's faster, including me. Wasn't that nice of the wizard!". Which is nice since everyone else is getting nice things and I'm not being left out or being made to demand something else.



    As for the combat maneuvers, I had an affiliation in one game that was a martial arts school that taught how to do this as you advanced. Not exactly the same but similar. And it worked rather well. I spent that game Tripping, Grappling and Bulls Rushing more often then I did full attacking, and I got to keep doing it the whole game through. It Surprised the DM when I was able to fight my way out of a pin and then reverse it against a Fire Giant he threw at us around level 10 or so (boss Fight.) But it made it interesting since all he had to do was rule that said fire giant yelled for his Oger Guards, who got there about the time most of the rest of the party were coming into combat range (I'd crit succeeded a jump check. House rules. The rest of the party were moving into position except the ranger, who already had high ground with a clear view and damn good cover and was sniping it when applicable.) So they had plenty to fight while the ranger and I worked in tandem to hold it down and whittle it down. It was a damn exciting battle!

    I will mention that as that game wore on, Tripping and Bulls Rushing remained effective, but Grappling did still eventually loose steam not because modifiers got too high (they might still have by very high levels.) But because Freedom of Movement effects became more and more common, and thus more and more things were immune to being grappled. So it wasn't a perfect "I Win" Button.





    That all said, I shall see if I can make the arraignments next campaign in my IRL group to run with those changes in place, and see what all it does to the way the class plays.
    "I Burn!"

  23. - Top - End - #293
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    Thumbs up Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    @jiriku: it would be really really awesome if you would make the remix warlock a tier 3 class... please please? :-) :-)

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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Oh it is. Trust me it is hella cool. More damage, more invocations, new invocations, new blast essences, useful class features, new archetypes, alternate class features, warlock feats, you name it. Right now all that's left to do is write out formal invocation descriptions and feat descriptions for about a dozen options that only exist in thumbnail form... and then format the whole multi-page monstrosity for Playground viewing. Unfortunately that's probably a full day's worth of work and I've got a lot of demands on my schedule. :(
    Last edited by jiriku; 2016-08-29 at 02:43 AM.
    D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Newest: shadowcaster. Most popular: monk and fighter.

    Innovative new mid-tier classes compatible with 3.x and 3.x Remix: Machinist, Shapeshifter, Avatar, Magus of Blades, Ritualist, Magician, Dawnblade, Summoner, plus 5 elemental casters!


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    Thumbs up Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    @jiriku: sounds nice. Yes I know the problem. I also live a busy life so it can be hard to find time for everything. I still need to update the T3 thread again at some point.

    I find the table stuff a little difficult to master, but I have been considering if I at some point should create a program to make the table code

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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    So, Gotten my first bit of feedback for the monk test. It's from another player in the game who's running a Silverbrow Human Cleric of Bahamute/Crusader.

    Spoiler: First offering.
    Show
    I am not a fan of homebrew because they don't usually know the other classes as well as I do and don't use that knowledge to make balanced classes. This homebrew author was no different. But the DM approved your class so it is there now.


    When I pointed out that the idea was to get it up to keep up with generally more vesitile and powerful classes then what the official monk is at, and that it's still being tested and refined, he had this to say.

    Spoiler: Second offering.
    Show
    Adding two stats (str or dex AND wis) is not comparable to any class. The closest thing is the factotum, who can add int a few times per encounter depending on the level. 10 skill points per level is not comparable to any class. 8 was reserved solely for the rogue. most other classes, which the author of the homebrew claims to be comparing like scout and ranger, have 6+int. The homebrew monk also can get multiple flurry attacks as a standard action, which is stronger than pounce. The ranger rapid shot requires a full round action, and multi shot (which is not available until at least level 6) gives scaling penalties for additional attacks. Pounce can only be used on a charge, while this double or more attack can be used and then still move after, or do something else with the move action. The warblade has a two manuever that are similar, but cannot choose to to hit the same target with attacks on one, and requires two weapons (and the penalties of half strength to damage on the off hand) with the other.

    The adding all knowledge skills is just not like the monk class at all. The excessive bonuses to jump and other skills. It looks like you are getting a bonus to wisdom that must be from the class I assume.

    Pathfinder provided that the monk could treat his monk level as base attack when using flurry of blows. This was a good fix and improved the class by itself so that people wanted to play it again. A few other little things could help. I could see adding wisdom to certain things like grapple or trips at higher levels being a great add. Overall this homebrew is highly powerful at too low of levels and not a well built for balance homebrew. It over compensates many times.


    Personally, I think he's proven he either doesn't know what he's talking about at all, or has a substantial bias of some kind, or both.

    But I did tell him I'd pass it along.




    Edit: I should mention, things the class has done so far in the game.

    1: Succeeded a Fort Save. DC was 18, I had a 23. (I rolled a nat 16.) And I succeeded by more then the bonus to saves I'm testing. Also, I was the only one in the party to succeed, but I was ALSO the only one to roll a number in double digits, so I'm chocking that up to luck of the dice.

    2: Rolled a listen check that gave me a bit of information about what was on the other side of a door.

    3: Rolled some knowledge checks that told me a bit about what I was getting ready to fight (Zombies.) and about my environment. The only possibly useful detail of which was that some of the gem stones were not what they looked like at first glance. (Not even what they actually were mind you, just, there not actually what they look like at first glance. It could prove with a higher result I'd just find out there just a different but otherwise generic and mundane form of gemstone for all I know. Neat setting stuff but possibly not even actually useful.)

    4: Rolled a nat 18 on a Knowledge Religion Check to use for Knowledge devotion for the afore mentioned fight with the zombies. Giving me a +3 to hit and damage total.

    That's it, mechanically. That I'm seeing, it actually doesn't look like anything A Ranger with a bit more knowledge skill access then normal and a couple of lucky rolls couldn't do just as well and just as easily.

    So the guys complaining about that + Ability's I haven't gotten to use yet. While having 3 levels in a Tier 1 casting class, using the devotion feat rules, using the Luck Domain, and having 1 class level and feats from Tome of Battle, and content form Dragon Magic and I'm not sure were else for his armor. (Anyone happen to know what book a medium armor called Dragon Husks that can apparently be had on a budget of 6d4x10 GP with out breaking the bank (he still afforded standard adventuring supplies, 2 mundane weapons, a buckler, and a couple of other extra mundane supplies in addition too.) is from? Medium Armor that gives a +7 to AC.)

    Just, again, for context.
    Last edited by Metahuman1; 2016-08-30 at 10:41 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Dragonscale husk is a fighter alternate class feature, not a purchased piece of gear. It's in Dragon Magic on page 12.

    His objections can be summed up under "melee can't have nice things" and yeah, I've seen them all before and they're largely just vaporous. In some cases he's misread the class (you don't get multiple flurries with a standard action, the class doesn't grant a Wisdom bonus), in others he makes inappropriate comparisons (using weak feats, low-level maneuvers, and flawed Tier 4 classes as his balance point, failing to compare Jump and Tumble bonuses to spells like jump, climb, and fly), and at times his balance assessment is off (pounce is much better than flurry of blows).

    I'd recommend that you not waste your time by seeking opinions from anyone like this who starts with a negative attitude. This guy clearly had a pre-existing grudge and looked only for evidence to support his grudge -- 100% of his response was complaints and he found nothing constructive to say at all. He also isn't actually playing the class, which means he's armchair quarterbacking and not developing real experience to support his opinions.

    You are actually playing it, and even your little bit of experience already makes you a better judge of the class than he is. Keep up the gameplay feedback, and don't bother with the negative fellow any more.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2016-09-08 at 11:59 AM.
    D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Newest: shadowcaster. Most popular: monk and fighter.

    Innovative new mid-tier classes compatible with 3.x and 3.x Remix: Machinist, Shapeshifter, Avatar, Magus of Blades, Ritualist, Magician, Dawnblade, Summoner, plus 5 elemental casters!


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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Understood. He actually wound up throwing a temper tantrum at the party and the DM and basically demanded the Monk Class be kicked out of the game and either I be required to play first party material, or be kicked form the game for being a an evil munchkin who only cared about overshadowing the party, after the first round of Combat because I killed a Zombie in 1 Round and he couldn't. (He refused to take into account the fact that I rolled a 19 on my first attack and a 17 on the second on Flurry, and that I Rolled 7 on the d8 Damage Die for both, AND that the DM had house ruled the Zombies DR 5/Bludgeoning away to benefit the rogue's use of a cross bow. Even after this was pointed out to him. )

    He wound up Rage quitting when the DM and I pointed out that there had only been 1 round of combat so far and that that was not a fair assessment, and proposed as a step down that we'd reapply the DR and just rule "Oh, yeah, that first Zombie dropped a bunch of Slashing Bolts, he must have been security. Toss the quiver to the rouge. Moving on." (Meaning I'd be the only one dealing with the DR, which I was ok with since it would have been a more accurate test anyway.) and that I would be willing to stop running with the knowledge devotion bonuses.

    Still wasn't good enough for him and he rage quit, and persuaded another member of the party to do so mid combat, a dwarf sword and board fighter (using the actual PHB fighter class. No Sub Levels, No Exotic Gear, No AFC's, And so far to that point, Core Feats. He felt I was over powered as well.).

    (Also worth mentioning about the cleric, he didn't have fighter levels so there's no way he had the armor he had, and he made mention that ONLY the rouge, in all of 3.5, has 8+int skill ranks. Also that he doesn't allow any home-brew except his own when he runs games because only he knows how to balance it properly and not make it over powered. Yeah.)

    Mercifully, the Rogue and Druid players have been FAR better sports, and the druid, between attacking with his own Dagger, his Riding Dog Animal companion trained for War, and the Hippogriff he summoned in the first round of combat, has been doing the most damage so far in the fight. That might change now that 5 rounds have expired and the Summoning is over, but we don't know that yet.







    That said, The Monk is getting a Wis bonus. It's one of the things I'm testing, one of those suggestions I'd made earlier on in the thread. You had said I should experiment with them, so, I'm experimenting, and reporting in my findings.

    So far, they are that 2 people in the party whom I found questionable didn't like it, and 2 more, + the DM, + the other party who's in the linked game that were going to join with eventually, don't see an issue other then "Might want to maybe make sure DR apply's to him and he might wanna hold Knowledge Devotion back for Boss Fights, or at worst case, think about retraining that feat. Maybe. At worse. Remains to be seen really."



    I had tried to apply to another game with the Monk Class, but even thought it was a brew test game, the DM didn't feel like he was familiar enough with it as an individual piece to try to run with it. I expect other games will crop up in due course for it to get tested in.
    "I Burn!"

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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    Ironic that the guy who accused you of munchkinry was himself the cheating munchkin. Sounds like a bordline narcissistic personality.

    The stock PHB fighter would feel overshadowed in most any group, I'm afraid. Just as well. I'm puzzled about your DR reference, though. DR 5/bludgeoning is bypassed by bludgeoning weapons -- which means your monk's fists punch straight through it. I'd encourage caution for your DM -- if he's that unfamiliar with the rules, taking on a lot of homebrew may be more cognitive load than he can handle. It's best to proceed cautiously rather than take on too much and get in over one's head. Still, you guys know best, so I'll not try to argue you out of your fun! :)

    I'm surprised that Knowledge Devotion has gotten so much flack. It's a great feat for enabling Int-based combat builds. We've used it for many years and never felt the need to tone it down, even with some players pairing it with the Collector of Stories skill trick to squeeze out an extra +1 bonus. I guess everyone has different power level expectations.
    D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Newest: shadowcaster. Most popular: monk and fighter.

    Innovative new mid-tier classes compatible with 3.x and 3.x Remix: Machinist, Shapeshifter, Avatar, Magus of Blades, Ritualist, Magician, Dawnblade, Summoner, plus 5 elemental casters!


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    Default Re: [3.5] The Monk Remixed

    *Checks.* I apologize, that was my typo. DR 5/Slashing. And everyone else in the party has, and had, the means to DO slashing damage except me, I'm doing normal bludgeoning damage.


    I think that was just him trying to Insist I was deliberately seeking to break the game, on the logic that a TWF or Archer build even with Knowledge Devotion would do less damage. (these builds are also usually unplayablely bad unless special consideration is in play.)


    And yes, a mostly core Dwarf Sword and Board fighter, in a party with a straight classed Druid focused on Casting and Animal Companion, A Divination Focused Wizard, And the Munchkin'ed Cleric Crusader, would have wound up lagging WAY behind no matter what I did, even if I'd played the same build as him.




    Speaking of the Druid, again, with 1 2nd level spell slot + 1 class feature, he was out damaging me with his summons Hippogriff and his Riding Dog animal Companion, consistently, and the Cleric, looking at his die rolls before he rage quit, would have been keeping up with me with Trivial Ease if he could have rolled worth a crap. (He got 1's and 2's for his in combat rolls on attacks before rage-quit.). He had a +6 damage bonus from strength alone, before spells or power attack or Item Bonuses or Maneuvers.

    So, I'm not worried that Knowledge Devotion is making it OP. Hell, I could take Kung Fu Genius, Keen Intellect, and dump Wis for Int and I don't think that would be a problem.




    As an add on to toning it down, I've spent a few rounds of combat grappling, which has worked to tie down opponents for the other players to kill, and allows them more spot light. The class, with minimal up front work of "oh, I think this feat sounds like a thing a martial artist should know how to do. I'll take it." and it's class features as there being tested, allowed me to seamlessly transition to a support roll to correct the problem.
    "I Burn!"

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