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  1. - Top - End - #91
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Hmm. I guess my paradigm of class design is to never be too interesting after level 12 or so. Most campaigns end before then, so I hate neat stuff only coming at level 18.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pechvarry View Post
    Hmm. I guess my paradigm of class design is to never be too interesting after level 12 or so. Most campaigns end before then, so I hate neat stuff only coming at level 18.
    Of course not! That would be endloading the class, which is honestly just as bad. The true paradigm would be to have abilities evenly spread over all class levels. Which this monk doesn't have, unfortunately.

    But will soon, with all hope.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    NOTHING is simple. NO EXCEPTIONS. No, not even that.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    But will soon, with all hope.
    Hmmmm? (too short)

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by huyche View Post
    Hmmmm? (too short)
    This class, as it is, has all of the interesting class features front loaded. I was talking about how it would hopefully soon have some interesting later on class features, since Jiriku seemed to be understanding my point.

    All of the abilities past around 6-8 (probably more like 6, since Dimension Door is a really weak ability for a melee character) are either non-combat, and not very useful non-combat, or they are defensive abilities, or they are passive. The class gains an arbitrarily large bonus to three skills, and then never does anything else with them, while still not allowing the modifiers to allow the monk to reach most epic DCs without some serious cheese.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    NOTHING is simple. NO EXCEPTIONS. No, not even that.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    This class, as it is, has all of the interesting class features front loaded. I was talking about how it would hopefully soon have some interesting later on class features, since Jiriku seemed to be understanding my point.
    I've given this some serious thought in the past couple days and it looks like some of the shortcomings could be solved by just giving this revised class the swordsage's discipline access and stance/maneuver progression (and recovery).
    Along with Insightful Strikes and Defensive Stance features.

    Or better yet, create a pool of features like here for a fighting style, which can be picked over progressively. Scrap ToB maneuvers and add to the list of active abilities to choose from.

    All of the abilities past around 6-8 (probably more like 6, since Dimension Door is a really weak ability for a melee character) are either non-combat, and not very useful non-combat, or they are defensive abilities, or they are passive.
    I think all of the passive stuff could be combined under something like:
    Transcend Mortality (Ex) (from another monk-like homebrew)
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    An Ascendant slowly begins to become far more than a mere mortal. Starting at 3rd level, you no longer need to eat or drink to survive. Furthermore, your unarmed attacks are treated as magical for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
    Starting at 7th level, you no longer need to sleep in order to function properly. Furthermore, you gain DR 5/magic.
    Starting at 11th level, you gain immunity to all forms of poison and to all diseases, including supernatural diseases. Furthermore, your unarmed attacks are treated as lawful for the purposes of overcoming damage reduction.
    Starting at 15th level, you no longer need to breath in order to function properly. Furthermore, your damage reduction increases to 10/magic.
    Starting at 19th level, you cease to age and do not die when your time is up. You still gain mental ability score increases but gain no further physical ability score decreases.

    But I do agree that there is not enough attractive active stuff to get above 10th level.

    Here is some extra combat abilities:
    Scythe Strike
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    The character can use this ability once per round, but no more than class level per day. The character must declare she is using the scythe strike attack before making the attack roll (thus, a missed attack roll ruins the attempt). A foe struck by the character is forced to make a fortitude save (DC 15 + 1/2 class level + Wis modifier), in addition to receiving normal damage. If the saving throw fails, the attack is treated as if the character had automatically confirmed a x4 critical. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected by the scythe strike.


    Reaper of Flesh
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    This supernatural ability allows the character to make a mighty spinning kick, whirling around so quickly that she resembles a mini-tornado, her feet spinning scythes.
    The character can use the Reaper of Flesh once per day, and she must announce her intent before making her attack roll. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. The character must perform the full attack action and make one melee attack at her full base attack bonus against each opponent within 5 feet. If the character strikes successfully and surrounding targets take damage from the blow, they die, unless a Fortitude saving throw is made (DC 15 + 1/2 class level + Wis modifier). Even if the saving throw is passed, the targets are knocked prone by the furious kick.
    Only targets of lower level than the character are affected (or have less HD than the character's level).


    Mind over Hand
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    Monk gains the ability to ignore the opponent's armor with his unarmed attacks. The monk can use this supernatural ability once per round, but no more than class levels per day.
    The character must declare she is using the scythe strike attack before making the attack roll (thus, a missed attack roll ruins the attempt). Against 'Mind over Hand' attacks, the foe uses his touch AC.


    Reverse Hand
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    The character can strike his target at the same instant his opponent strikes him. The monk can choose to make an immediate attack of opportunity against an opponent that makes a successful melee attack roll or melee touch attack against the monk, but the monk makes this attack at a -5 penalty to his base attack roll. The monk cannot make more attacks of opportunity than he is normally allowed in a round. The attack can only be used against an opponent the monk threatens.

    Looks like a better karmic strike.

    Empty Hand
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    Prerequisite: Improved Disarm.
    The monk becomes an expert at relieving his opponents of their weapons. The monk's hands are treated as a Large weapon when the monk performs a disarm special attack. Furthermore, as a result of his 'Empty Hand' training, the monk gains a +4 bonus to his opposed roll to disarm his foe.


    Dragon-Tail Slap
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    The monk gains the ability to send an opponent this is damaged by his unarmed attacks flying across the battlefield. The monk can use this supernatural ability once per round, but no more than once per class level per day. The character must declare she is using the Dragon-Tail Slap attack before making the attack roll (thus, a missed attack roll ruins the attempt). If a foe is struck by this attack, the monk automatically initiates a bull rush-like attack, except the attack modifies as follows.
    The monk and his opponent make opposed Str checks. The monk is treated as if he were one size category larger than his actual size, for the purposes of determining his category-status to the opposed Str check. In addition, the monk automatically gains a +4 bonus from his training. The monk gets a +2 charge bonus if charging. The foe gets a +4 stability bonus if she has more than two legs or is otherwise exceptionally stable, as well as +4 bonus for each size-category she is above Medium-size, or a -4 penalty for each size-category she is below Medium-size.
    If the monk beats his foe, she is knocked back 5 feet plus 1 foot for each point by which the monk exceeds the foe's check result.
    Furthermore, the foe takes an additional amount of damage from the attack equal to the number of feet she is knocked back. The monk doesn't move when his foe is knocked back. The foe may provoke attacks of opportunity when he is knocked back (though not from the monk), but the monk is not subject to attacks of opportunity because he doesn't move (unlike a standard bull rush). If the monk fails the opposed check, he suffers no deleterious effect.


    The class gains an arbitrarily large bonus to three skills, and then never does anything else with them, while still not allowing the modifiers to allow the monk to reach most epic DCs without some serious cheese.
    True, they should be used as part of new combat options to be invented. This is partially covered by ToB maneuvers.

    Also, another revision has a more simple way of wording of mechanics concerning unarmed attacks.
    Ki Strike (Su):
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    At 4th level, a monk’s unarmed attacks are empowered with ki. His unarmed attacks and attacks made with his special monk weapons are treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. Ki strike improves with the character’s monk level.
    At 10th level, his unarmed attacks and attacks made with his special monk weapons are also treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and bypassing hardness.
    At 16th level, his unarmed attacks and attacks made with his special monk weapons are treated as silver and cold iron weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction.


    Unarmed Strike Enhancement (Su):
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    A monk's unarmed strike improves as he gains higher levels. At 4th level and every four monk levels thereafter, the monk's unarmed strike gains a cumulative +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls (+2 at 8th level, +3 at 12th level, +4 at 16th level, and +5 at 20th level).

    At 6th level, a monk gains the ability to enhance his unarmed strike. He can add any one of the melee weapon special abilities that has an enhancement bonus value of +1, with the exception of the anarchic, throwing, and dancing special abilities.

    At every four levels beyond 6th (10th, 14th, and 18th), the value of the enhancement a monk can add to his unarmed strike improves to +2, +3, and +4, respectively. A monk can choose any combination of melee weapon special abilities that does not exceed the total allowed by the monk’s level.

    The weapon ability or abilities remain the same every time the monk attacks with his unarmed strike (unless he decides to reassign its abilities). A monk can reassign the ability or abilities he has added to his unarmed strike. To do so, he must first spend 8 hours in concentration. After that period, his unarmed strikes gains the new ability or abilities selected by the monk, replacing the previously selected ability or abilities.

    A monk of 10th level can also choose from the list of ranged weapon special abilities with which to enchant his unarmed strikes, with the exception of the anarchic, returning, and distance special abilities.


    Edit: I think it should be possible to combine all of the 4 sources I've got, a piece of ToB, a few scattered feats and old PrC features into 1 usable class that gradually rises in power and is well worthy of full 20 levels.

    PS: OMG, that Tome Monk has some awesomely thought-out features.
    Last edited by huyche; 2011-02-20 at 02:43 PM.

  6. - Top - End - #96
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    To clarify: the revised monk is an improved monk class. It does the same things the original monk does, only better. It does not possess broad new suites of capability that the original monk did not have -- it simply corrects the monk's deficiencies. If you want to punch people with maneuvers, play an unarmed swordsage. If you want to punch people with ki powers or psionic powers, play the homebrew ki monks and psionic monks already present on this forum. If you want to play the classic monk but you want to *not suck*, this is the class for you.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2011-02-20 at 03:17 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #97
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    I don't think this class needs ToB manoevres. If you're going for that fix, you might as well just play a swordsage and call it a day. And the design goal was always "strong Tier 4".

    Now, as for the skill bonus... what if the progression it followed wasn't so linear, but a little more exponential? Say, +5 at 3rd, +5 again at 6th, +10 at 9th & 12th, +15 at 15th and 18th. Same eventual total, more rewarding to follow all the way. (Although that threshold of needing a 15 to tumble past a single opponent being about its most powerful use is annoying). Alternatively or in addition, the obvious ability to add to those already under the epic skill uses of Tumble is to be able to move past opponents at full speed rather than half speed - charge double the base 15/25 DC, perhaps, (EDIT: ie a DC of 30 to move past an opponent at full speed, and 50 to move their square) while also doubling the penalty for each additional opponent you tumble past to 4?
    Last edited by paddyfool; 2011-02-20 at 03:19 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    To clarify: the revised monk is an improved monk class. It does the same things the original monk does, only better. It does not possess broad new suites of capability that the original monk did not have -- it simply corrects the monk's deficiencies. If you want to punch people with maneuvers, play an unarmed swordsage. If you want to punch people with ki powers or psionic powers, play the homebrew ki monks and psionic monks already present on this forum. If you want to play the classic monk but you want to *not suck*, this is the class for you.
    Of course. I fully agree in this sense. However, you do not necessarily have to shoe-hole yourself into giving them the exact same class features, and not giving them any new ones. In fact, that logic really doesn't make very much sense, since you have already added some new class features.

    What I was suggesting was that you add something to make combat interesting. ToB does this, but it isn't the only option. But it needs to happen, badly. Everything else is fantastic (besides maybe character roles). All you have to do is build off of the Monk fighting styles already presented in the SRD with Unearthed Arcana. They are completely mundane, no magic, no ToB, no Ki. Just martial artist. And, give them actual class features instead of feats. Make something out of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    NOTHING is simple. NO EXCEPTIONS. No, not even that.

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    I quite like the look of this and I'm glad you agree with me on how Monks shouldn't be a totally new class when fixed, just teh way they were with improved class features and a few more.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    off of the Monk fighting styles already presented in the SRD with Unearthed Arcana
    What page is it on?

    I don't think this class needs ToB manoevres. If you're going for that fix, you might as well just play a swordsage and call it a day. And the design goal was always "strong Tier 4".
    see
    Or better yet, create a pool of features like here for a fighting style, which can be picked over progressively. Scrap ToB maneuvers and add to the list of active abilities to choose from.
    There are some nice feats too, along with a few half-assed PrC features that can be used.

    Now, as for the skill bonus... what if the progression it followed wasn't so linear, but a little more exponential? Say, +5 at 3rd, +5 again at 6th, +10 at 9th & 12th, +15 at 15th and 18th. Same eventual total, more rewarding to follow all the way. (Although that threshold of needing a 15 to tumble past a single opponent being about its most powerful use is annoying). Alternatively or in addition, the obvious ability to add to those already under the epic skill uses of Tumble is to be able to move past opponents at full speed rather than half speed - charge double the base 15/25 DC, perhaps, (EDIT: ie a DC of 30 to move past an opponent at full speed, and 50 to move their square) while also doubling the penalty for each additional opponent you tumble past to 4?
    Code:
    Abundant Leap (Su): At 2nd level, a Monk's ability to jump is unbounded by his height. In addition, the DC for any jump check is divided by two.
    Like this but for for climbing and tumbling too? Instead of generating ridiculous skill levels? Increased to division by, say, '4' somewhere higher on the levels.

    @Hazzardevil:
    IIRC, it were you who made me visit the link and check this revision, thanks.
    Last edited by huyche; 2011-02-20 at 03:57 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by huyche View Post
    What page is it on?
    Dunno about the actual Unearthed Arcana, but here is a link to the SRD part; Linky.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    NOTHING is simple. NO EXCEPTIONS. No, not even that.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by unosarta View Post
    Dunno about the actual Unearthed Arcana, but here is a link to the SRD part; Linky.
    Oh, thaaaaaat...

    But it is so dull :(

    I've got some kind of compilation based on those variants and a few more from some Dragon Magazine issues.
    For example, this one is from it.

    There is also a hunting monk, a holy monk, martial monk, raging monk(lol), sidewinder monk, steadfast monk, vigilant monk, wild monk.

    And a couple extra 'styles':
    Kyokushinkai Karate
    (tireless & almost unkillable)
    (DR334 p89)
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    Skill Bonus: Survival
    1st
    lvl Feat: Endurance
    2nd
    lvl Feat: Toughness
    6th
    lvl Feat: Weapon Focus
    (unarmed strike)
    Concentration: 9 ranks.
    Feat: Die Hard.
    +6 hp.

    Metered Style (perfect focus on combat patterns)
    (DR337 p97)
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    Skill Bonus: Concentration
    1st
    lvl Feat: Defensive Metered Foot
    2nd
    lvl Feat: Offensive Metered Foot
    6th
    lvl Feat: Toughness
    Concentration: 9 ranks.
    Skill Focus(any Strength-based
    –or– Dexterity-based skill).
    You may ‘Take 10’ on any Strength-based or Dexterity-
    based skill check, even if distraction would normally not all
    you to do so.

    Wing Chun Kuen (aware of his/her surroundings and how to use them)
    (DR334 p89)
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    Skill Bonus: Listen
    1st
    lvl Feat: Combat Reflexes
    2nd
    lvl Feat: Cleave
    6th
    lvl Feat: Weapon Critical
    (unarmed strike)
    Listen: 9 ranks.
    Feat: Improved Initiative.
    When you enter combat and are not surprised, gain your
    Wisdom modifier (if any) as a bonus to your Initiative
    check.

    Wushu (smart tacticians who attack in unexpected directions)
    (DR334 p89)
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    Skill Bonus: Tumble
    1st
    lvl Feat: Improved Initiative
    2nd
    lvl Feat: Power Attack
    6th
    lvl Feat: Improved Feint
    Bluff: 4 ranks.
    Sense Motive: 9 ranks.
    When you make a Bluff check in order to Feint in combat,
    gain ˝ Monk levels as a bonus.


    Plus 5 martial arts schools as boring and random. Basically, there are some Ability and feat prerequisites, you gain a small bonus for qualifying for them.
    Then the 1st level mastery + higher ability, feat and skill ranks to qualify for a bit better bonus.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Exactly. Except, instead of just feats and skill bonuses and minor things, give them actual class abilities, and have them be at 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 20th level. So, like, for yongchunquan, which you had up there, you could have some extra options for strikes and a combination attack defense (probably involving AoOs). Being able to relax out of grapples (via general relaxation, which is a strong theme of yongchun), etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    NOTHING is simple. NO EXCEPTIONS. No, not even that.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    I may have to be building an epic monk soon, so... have a present.

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    {table=head]Level|Special|Flurry (std)| Flurry (full)| Unarmed| AC| Speed
    20|Ki Strike +5, Perfect Self, Slow Fall Any Distance|+15/+15/+15|+15/+15/+15/+10/+5|6d6|+5|60ft
    21|Epic Flurry|+16/+16/+16/+16|+16/+16/+16/+16/+11/+6|6d6|+5|70ft
    22||+16/+16/+16/+16|+16/+16/+16/+16/+11/+6|6d6|+5|70ft
    23|Bonus Feat|+17/+17/+17/+17|+17/+17/+17/+17/+12/+7|6d6|+5|70ft
    24|Ki Strike +6|+17/+17/+17/+17|+17/+17/+17/+17/+12/+7|8d6|+6|80ft
    25||+18/+18/+18/+18|+18/+18/+18/+18/+13/+8|8d6|+6|80ft
    26|Bonus Feat|+18/+18/+18/+18|+18/+18/+18/+18/+13/+8|8d6|+6|80ft
    27||+19/+19/+19/+19|+19/+19/+19/+19/+14/+9|8d6|+6|90ft
    28|Ki Strike +7|+19/+19/+19/+19|+19/+19/+19/+19/+14/+9|10d6|+7|90ft
    29|Bonus Feat|+20/+20/+20/+20|+20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+10|10d6|+7|90ft
    30|Eternal Body|+20/+20/+20/+20|+20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+10|10d6|+7|100ft
    31||+21/+21/+21/+21/+21|+21/+21/+21/+21/+21/+16/+11|10d6|+7|+100[/table]

    Wholeness of Body, Diamond Soul, Quivering Palm, Empty Step, Empty Body, Moment of Perfection: These abilities continue to progress using your full monk Level.

    Epic Flurry: At 21st level, you gain a third additional attack when using your flurry ability.

    Another additional attack is gained at each tenth level after; 31st, 41st, etc.

    (Note that the Flurry statistics given in the table include Epic Attack Bonus)

    Unarmed Damage: Continues to increase, as seen in the table. Due to lack of support for increasing damage by size past, they increase damage by 2d6 at 24th level, and another 2d6 each fourth level thereafter; 28th, 32nd, etc.

    AC Bonus: Continues to increase, as seen in the table. Goes up by one at 24th, and another at 28th and each fourth level thereafter; 32nd, 35th, etc.

    Dance With The Elements: Continues to increase, as seen in the table. Goes up by ten at 21st, then another ten at 24th, and another ten at each third level thereafter; 27th, 30th, etc.

    Ki Strike: Continues to increase, as seen in the table. Goes up by one at 24th, and another at 28th, and another one at each fourth level thereafter; 32nd, 36th, etc.

    Bonus Feats: At twenty third level and each third level therafter, an Epic Monk gains a bonus feat. This may be any other monk bonus feat he did not previously choose, any feat with those as a prerequisite, or a feat from the following list: Armor Skin, Blinding Speed, Damage Reduction, Energy Resistance, Epic Prowess, Epic Speed, Epic Toughness, Exceptional Deflection, Fast Healing, Improved Combat Reflexes, Improved Ki Strike, Improved Spell Resistance, Improved Stunning Fist, Infinite Deflection, Keen Strike, Legendary Climber, Legendary Wrestler, Reflect Arrows, Righteous Strike, Self-Concealment, Shattering Strike, Vorpal Strike.
    Other feats may be added to this list at GM discretion.

    The Monk does not need to meet the prerequisites for Monk bonus feats, but otherwise must meet all prerequisites.

    Eternal Body: A Monk of 30th level does not age at all. They can still be killed, but will never die of any effect related to age or time.

    Epic Ki Strike

    Prerequisites: Ki Strike +6, Improved Ki Strike, 21st level in Monk
    Benefit: You may gain a number of applicable abilites from the table in Improved Ki Strike which, if applied to a weapon, would give it special abilites with a value of up to one less than your total Ki Strike. In addition, you may add Acidic/Fiery/Icy/Lightning Blast to the list of applicable abilities. Rangers may also add Dread, keyed to one of their favoured enemies.
    Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2011-02-20 at 08:54 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    I like presents...especially epic presents. Shiny!
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Glad you like it. :)
    I worry about how much damage I enable you to do with that, but... damage is pretty useless PRE-Epic from what I here, so it should be fine.
    Besides, smooshing dragons in a round of combat pretty much defines epic.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    We've already established that you're an enabler. I was actually thinking the damage was fairly conservative. I've never played at epic levels, but given the kinds of damage routinely tossed around at high-teen levels, I'm thinking that free Epic Toughness on the dead levels (or even every level!) might not be out of line for martial characters.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2011-02-21 at 01:54 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    This might give some inspiration: it's the Penny Dreadful Monk:
    https://docs.google.com/View?docid=0...CLGemYEO&hl=en
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    We've already established that you're an enabler. I was actually thinking the damage was fairly conservative. I've never played at epic levels, but given the kinds of damage routinely tossed around at high-teen levels, I'm thinking that free Epic Toughness on the dead levels (or even every level!) might not be out of line for martial characters.
    Well, the only tables for damage-by-size I could find that went past 8d6 went 8d6, 12d6 and then stopped.
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    Sorry for double post, but Noticed something else: The Design Notes under AC Bonus still reference Empty Body rather than Empty Mind.

    Also, does TWF work with monks? Please say yes. I mean, it's not like it's even that powerful...

    Also Wholeness of Body, as written, doesn't say what action it is to heal, whether it's touch range, and, if you didn't read the Design Notes, doesn't actually say you can use it on someone else.
    Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2011-02-24 at 02:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Besides, smooshing dragons in a round of combat pretty much defines epic.
    Not that I've had a chance to do this but imagine doing this with a halfling... one of the many reasons I love this class is making a halfling monk (dear god what if with a pixie!?). I've also made a goliath monk thats to be based around rock throwing/throwing enemies but unfortunately that game isn't progressing particularly fast.

    Looking forward to further work on this revision.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    I'm planning a Monk 40//Paladin 20/OtherThingsThatGrantMoreAttacks 20
    Should be fun. (grins)

    (This is why I REALLY want TWF to work. I mean, it's just one attack per feat. Pleeeeeease?)
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    I've added verbage clarifying the use of Unarmed Strike and Wholeness of Body. Good stuff, keep it coming!



    Here is the houseruled TWF variant feat that has been in use in my campaign for the past year. Extensive playtesting has shown it to be not at all unbalanced...which says something about the existing TWF feats.

    TWO-WEAPON FIGHTING [Fighter, General, Ranger]
    You fight effectively with a weapon in each hand, and you can make extra attacks each round with the second weapon.
    Prerequisite: Dex 15
    Benefit: Your penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons are reduced. The penalty for your primary hand lesses by two and the one for your off hand lessens by 6. If your off hand weapon is a light weapon, reduce the penalties for both weapons by an additional 2.
    You gain an additional attack at your highest base attack bonus with the offhand weapon. You gain additional attacks with the offhand weapon at progressively lower attack bonuses whenever your base attack bonus grants you additional attacks with your primary weapon.
    As the core rules specify that a monk's unarmed strike counts as a weapon whenever she wants it to, in my mind this explicitly allows the use of TWF with unarmed strikes. TWF would also be compatible with flurry of blows. Attack all you like.

    By way of contrast, it's entirely possible to build an archivist or wizard capable of making 20+ attacks per round by level 20 without the use of any homebrew. And with better attack and damage bonuses than a monk could ever hope to obtain. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2011-02-24 at 05:58 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    (evil giggles)
    I am going to have alot of attacks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Quote Originally Posted by jiriku View Post
    By way of contrast, it's entirely possible to build an archivist or wizard capable of making 20+ attacks per round by level 20 without the use of any homebrew. And with better attack and damage bonuses than a monk could ever hope to obtain. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
    Also, that same Archivist or Wizard could easily go BFC the next day, Damage the day after that, Healing with the right feat, and then back to ridiculous attacks.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Make sure you have the ability to acquire an unreasonably large number of natural weapons. That's the best way to get extra attacks once you've maxed out your TWF/flurry of blows potential. There's considerable synergy between monk/druid (wildshape), monk/barbarian/bear warrior, or monk (bear rage)/any class that can cast polymorph (hydra fun).

    It's only kind of tangentially related to the topic at hand, but the Summoner in my sig can also manage a pretty impressive number of natural attacks by attuning to the right kind of planar companion. Plus you get the companion and anything else you summon, which gives "you" a heck of a lot of attacks indeed.

    I'm also working on an arcane class called the Shapeshifter, which is essentially an entire class built around the alter self/polymorph/shapechange line. The shapeshifter will be able to pretty easily manifest 8+ natural weapons by upper levels. Unfortunately I'm really struggling to think up interesting/useful class features, so it's kind of languishing incomplete ATM.


    P.S. You're very kind to your DM. In a level 40 gestalt game, I'd play an archivist/cleric/dweomerkeeper//illusionist/shadowcraft mage/incantatrix, and basically just tell the DM how the game is gonna be.
    Last edited by jiriku; 2011-02-24 at 06:43 PM.
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    But natural attacks don't do massive monk unarmed damage. xD

    (And I'm not cruel. :P)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    You're not cruel, but you do misbehave.

    If you are a bear (or something even meaner), ALL attacks do impressive damage, including unarmed attacks. One of my favorite tank/DPS builds, which you can do quite well with this monk, is the Kung-Fu Panda build: barbarian/bear warrior/fist of the forest/monk. You're getting Dex, Wis, and Con to AC, Str and Wis to hit and damage, flurry of blows, excellent saves, unarmed strike, three natural weapons, pounce, improved trip, and, hey, you're a BEAR!
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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    We aim to misbehave.

    But at level 40, my unarmed attacks do about 20d6+Str+Wis. A claw attack does what, 2d6+Str+Wis? XD
    Last edited by Lix Lorn; 2011-02-24 at 07:33 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    At level 40, your opponents are immune to damage and have Armor Class: No and a hundred thousand hit points anyway. What do you care how much damage you deal?
    D&D Remix for 3.x: balanced base classes and feats, all in the authentic flavor of the originals. Newest: shadowcaster. Most popular: monk and fighter.

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    Default Re: [3.5] Revised Monk (finally the red-headed stepchild gets some respect and PEACH!

    Perfect Self (Ex): At 20th level, a monk becomes a magical creature and her type changes to outsider. When targeted by spells and magical effects that consider her type, she may choose whether to be considered an outsider or a member of her former type, whichever is most advantageous. Additionally, the monk gains damage reduction 15/lawful. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type.
    ...shouldn't this be chaotic just for the lawful example monk?

    Also: Any reason why it isn't full BAB?

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