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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    THE SUMMONER

    Trained alongside Warmages, Summoners wage war by way of summoned allies, truly the proverbial infantry to the Warmage's artillery. Masters of tactics, positioning, and manuevering, the Summoner is trained to bring the fight to her enemies.

    Alignment: Any.
    Hit Die: d8

    Class Skills
    The summoner's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle animal (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Speak language, and Spellcraft (Int).

    Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x 4.
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

    The Summoner
    {table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |Augment Summoning, Persistant Summoning, Armored Mage (Light)|3|-

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |Planar Accord|4|-

    3rd|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |Rapid Summoning|5|-|-

    4th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Advanced Learning|6|3|-|-

    5th|
    +3
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |Armored Mage (Medium)|6|4|-|-|-

    6th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Tenacious Summoning|6|5|3|-|-|-

    7th|
    +5
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |Armored Mage (Heavy Shield)|6|6|4|-|-|-|-

    8th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |Advanced Learning|6|6|5|3|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|
    +6/+1
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |Toughened Summoning|6|6|6|4|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|
    +7/+2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Piercing Conjurations|6|6|6|5|3|-|-|-|-

    11th|
    +8/+3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |Flood Summoning, Mastery of Summoning I|6|6|6|6|4|-|-|-|-

    12th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Advanced Learning|6|6|6|6|5|3|-|-|-

    13th|
    +9/+4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +8
    |Friends in High Places|6|6|6|6|6|4|-|-|-|-

    14th|
    +10/+5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +9
    |Reactive Summoning|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|-|-

    15th|
    +11/+6/+1
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +9
    |Mastery of Summoning II|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|-|-

    16th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Advanced Learning|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3|-

    17th|
    +12/+7/+2
    |
    +5
    |
    +5
    |
    +10
    |Planar Adaptation|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4|-

    18th|
    +13/+8/+3
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Torrent Summoning|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|5|3

    19th|
    +14/+9/+4
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +11
    |Effortless Command, Mastery of Summoning III|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|4

    20th|
    +15/+10/+5
    |
    +6
    |
    +6
    |
    +12
    |Advanced Learning, Summoned Being|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6|6[/table]

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the Summoner.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Summoners are proficient with all simple weapons. They are proficient with light and medium armor and shields (Except tower shields). Armor of any type interferes with a Summoner's gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail (But see armored mage below).

    Spells: A Summoner casts arcane spells which are drawn from the Summoner spell list. He can cast any spell on the list without preparing it ahead of time, the way a wizard or a cleric must.
    To cast a spell, a Summoner must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a Summonerís spell is 10 + the spell level + the Summoner's Charisma modifier.
    Like other spellcasters, a Summoner can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Summoner. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.
    Unlike a wizard or a cleric, a Summoner need not prepare his spells in advance. He can cast any spell he knows at any time, assuming he has not yet used up his spells per day for that spell level. He does not have to decide ahead of time which spells heíll cast.

    Augment Summoning (su): The Summoner gains Augment Summoning as a bonus feat at first level.

    Persistent Summoning (su): At first level, a summoner gains the ability to call forth an ally to serve her in her travels. She can extend a summoning spellís duration to permanent(D) by casting the appropriate spell during a ritual that takes 1 hour to perform. Creatures summoned in this method are typical for the spell used, modified only by the augment summoning feat. The summoner can have only one such creature summoned at any given time (other creatures summoned normally have no effect on this limit). If the summoner attempts to summon a new persistant ally while the old one is still in her service, the old on vanishes as if the spell's duration had expired when the ritual is complete.

    Armored Mage: At first level, a summoner can cast spells while wearing light armor or light shields without incurring the normal chance of arcane spell failure.
    At 5th level, this benefit can be applied to medium armor.
    At 7th level, this benefit can be applied to heavy shields.

    Planar Accord (Ex): Through long association with outsiders, the summoner has become adept at saying exactly what they want to hear. She gains a +2 bonus to bluff, diplomacy, and sense motive checks when dealing with outsiders.

    Rapid Summoning: Beginning at third level, a summoner can cast any summoning spell with a casting time of 1 round as a standard action. The creatures so summoned act on the summonerís turn beginning with the turn they are summoned

    Advanced Learning: At 4th level, you can add a new spell to your list, representing the result of personal study and experimentation. The spell must be of the conjuration school and may be chosen from the cleric, druid, or sorcerer/wizard spell lists. The chosen spell can not be of the [Healing] subschool. The spell chosen can be of no higher level than the highest level of spells you are able to cast. Once chosen, the spell is forever added to your spell list and can be cast just as any other spell on the list.
    You learn an additional new spell at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th level.

    Tenacious Summoning: A summonerís summoned creatures are harder to dispel, banish, or control than ordinary summoned creatures. Add +5 to the DC of checks made to banish, dispel, turn, or rebuke creatures summoned by the summoner. In addition, the summoned creature gains a +5 bonus on will saves vs. mind affecting effects, fear effects, and any attempt to wrest control of the creature from the summoner.

    Toughened Summoning: A number of times per day equal to the summonerís Intellegence bonus, she may maximize the HP of a single creature she summons. Using this ability is a swift action.

    Piercing Conjurations: At 10th level, the summoner gains the ability to punch through spells that deny trans-planar travel, such as Dimensional Anchor and the like. The summoner's spells ignore any effect or spell that prevents summoning, teleportation, calling, or planar travel. This causes strange effects when inside of an antimagic field. The summoner may cast any spell inside the field related to the above categories, but depending on the spell, the effects may not occur (for example, if the summoner uses Summon Monster 5 to get a critter, the critter will wink out for the field's duration, unless it has SR [as noted in the antimagic field description]).

    Flood Summoning: When a summoner casts a spell to summon multiple creatures, the summoner can choose to empower the spell as a swift action without adjusting the spellĎs level or casting time. This ability may be used a number of times per day equal to the summonerís Intellegence modifier.

    Mastery of Summoning: At 11th level, and again at 15th and 19th level, the summoner may choose a template of her choice (chosen when this ability is gained) to grant to creatures she summons. The template may not be worth more than a +2 increase in LA. This template replaces any existing template and only one such template may be applied per casting. The chosen template may only be applied to a creature that would normally qualify to gain that template. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to her intellegence bonus.

    Friends in High Places (Su): At 13th level, creatures beckoned into action by the summoner do so more willingly. The summoner gains a +1 bonus to her caster level when casting any planar ally or planar binding spells. She also gains a +2 bonus on opposed charisma checks when dealing with outsiders through these spells.

    Reactive Summoning: A summoner can cast a summoning spell with a casting time no longer than 1 round as an immediate action in response to an attack or spell with you as the target. The creature appears within 10 feet and can take a single standard action when it appears, thereafter the creature acts on the summonerís turn as any other summoned creature. The summoner can use this ability once per day.

    Planar Adaptation (Su): At 17th level, a summoner knows how to get along safely in any extreme planar environment. She is always treated as if under the effects of an Avoid Planar Effects spell (Spell Compendium Pg. 19).

    Torrent Summoning: As a swift action, the summoner can double the number of creatures she summons with any summoning spell. This ability is applied to the base spell and thus stacks with metamagic feats. For example if the summoner's spell normally summons 2 creatures, the torrent spell summons 4. If the empower spell metamagic feat were then applied, the spell summons 6 creatures. This ability can be used up to three times per day.

    Effortless Command: At 19th level, a summoner may concentrate to maintain a spell as a swift action, but cannot cast other spells that round while doing so.

    Summoned Being: At 20th level, the summoner, through repeated association with summoned creatures and conjuration magic, takes on some of the traits of the creatures she summons. Her type changes to outsider and she gains the (native) subtype. Furthermore, she gains a permanent +4 bonus to her strength and constitution scores. The summoner no longer takes penalties from aging and cannot be magically aged. Bonuses still accrue and the summoner still dies of old age when her time is up. Finally, the summoner may apply a single template to herself, chosen from the templates available for her through her Mastery of Summoning ability.




    Summoner Spell List:

    1ST-LEVEL
    Benign Transposition*, Magic Fang, Mount, Protection from Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Summon Monster I, Summon Natureís Ally I, Summon Undead I*, Unseen Servant

    2ND-LEVEL
    Baleful Transposition*, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Cat's Grace, Dimension Hop**, Summon Elysian Thrush*, Summon Monster II, Summon Natureís Ally II, Summon Swarm, Summon Undead II*,

    3RD-LEVEL
    Dimension Step**, , Greater Magic Fang, Haste, Lesser luminous assassin**, Magic Circle Against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Phantom Steed, Regroup**, Summon Monster III, Summon Natureís Ally III, Summon Undead III*, Regal Procession*, Servant Hoard*, Vipergout*

    4TH-LEVEL
    Dimension Door, Dimensional Anchor, Lesser Planar Ally, Lesser Planar Exchange*, Summon Elementite Swarm*, Summon Hound Archon*, Summon Monster IV, Summon Natureís Ally IV, Summon Undead IV*

    5TH-LEVEL
    Call Zelekhut*, Dimension Shuffle**, Greater Dimension Door*, Insect Plague, Lesser Dragon Ally*, Lesser Planar Binding, Luminous Assassin**, Mageís Faithful Hound, Phantasmal Thief*, Plague of Rats*, Plane Shift, Summon Bearded Devil*, Summon Bralani Eladrin*, Summon Monster V, Summon Natureís Ally V, Summon Undead V*, Teleport

    6TH-LEVEL
    Fire Spiders*, Gemjump*, Mass Bear's Endurance, Mass Bull's Strength, Mass Cat's Grace,. Planar Ally, Planar Binding, Planar Exchange*, Spider Plague*, Summon Babau Demon*, Summon Greater Elemental*, Summon Monster VI, Summon Natureís Ally VI, Word of Recall

    7TH-LEVEL
    Call Kolyarut*, Creeping Doom, Dragon Ally*, Greater Luminous Assassin**, Greater Teleport, Refuge, Summon Monster VII, Summon Natureís Ally VII, Teleport Object

    8TH-LEVEL
    Fierce Pride of the Beastlands*, Greater Planar Ally, Greater Planar Binding, Greater Planar Exchange*, Greater Plane Shift*, Phantom Wolf*, Summon Monster VIII, Summon Natureís Ally VIII, Trap the Soul

    9TH-LEVEL
    Abyssal Army*, Call Marut*, Elemental Swarm, Gate, Greater Dragon Ally*, Heavenly Host*, Hellish Hoard*, Shambler, Summon Elemental Monolith*, Summon Golem**, Summon Monster IX, Summon Natureís Ally IX, Teleportation Circle


    * Spell compendium
    ** Players Handbook 2



    Special thanks go out to arguskos for the use of his Piercing Conjurations and Mastery of Summoning class features as well as akal saris, theyoungking, Fizban, Molten_dragon and ForzaFiori for their very helpful suggestions.
    Last edited by Jarrick; 2010-12-25 at 10:28 PM.
    "To play a fighter is to play the game.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    They should probably have some buff spells of their own.
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Your class looks pretty decent. You may wish to see what's come before though, for supplemental ideas on your class. Here, check out my Summoner from a few years ago: The Summoner.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheYoungKing View Post
    They should probably have some buff spells of their own.
    I was aiming more for "Overwhelm with sheer numbers", but you may be right. Im playtesting this class right now in my thursday game and so far, it's proven capable of holding its own. If it starts lagging at the higher levels, I'll probably do just that. Also, summoners can get buffs from allies, meaning summoned critters with SLAs and of course other party members. After all, isn't using getting help from your allies what summoners do best?
    "To play a fighter is to play the game.
    To play a wizard is to understand the rules.
    To understand the rules, and play a fighter, is to understand the game."
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Your class looks pretty decent. You may wish to see what's come before though, for supplemental ideas on your class. Here, check out my Summoner from a few years ago: The Summoner.
    Hm! Your class is very similar to mine!
    I especially like mastery of summoning and Piercing Conjurations. I'd like to add them in somwhere with your permission, but I'm not sure where...
    "To play a fighter is to play the game.
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    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
    Hm! Your class is very similar to mine!
    I especially like mastery of summoning and Piercing Conjurations. I'd like to add them in somwhere with your permission, but I'm not sure where...
    Please do. I'm glad you liked it.

    In play, I can speak from experience that my Summoner performs excellently, right in the Tier 3 range. I'd hope that yours works in that range as well.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Ok, changes added. Much thanks arguskos!
    "To play a fighter is to play the game.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Hmm...I'm thinking Summoner 15/Malconvoker 5 here for auto-twin and extend on all evil summons

    Seriously though, this looks like a very fun class to me, probably high in T3 like the Beguiler is. Minor suggestions:
    -Switch the levels when you get Rapid Summoning and Augment Summoning abilities around, and add the option to take a separate bonus feat if the summoner already took Augment Summoning.
    -Spells: Add a small number of buff spells - maybe just Haste and Animal Growth. And you can probably move Heavenly Horde and Abyssal Army to 8th level, since they are both too weak to compare with "real" 9th level spells.
    -At 19th, add the Spirit Shaman's ability to concentrate on a spell as a swift action, but you can't cast other spells during this time.

    And some fluff abilities to fill dead levels!
    -At 2nd: +2 to Sense Motive and Diplomacy when dealing with outsiders
    -At 13th: +1 to caster level when casting any planar ally or planar binding spell
    -At 17th: You no longer suffer the negative effects of planar traits
    Handbooks: (Hosted on BG)
    [3.5] The Poison Handbook
    [3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
    [3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Akal Saris's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Heh...here's a build for the summoner too!

    Silverblood Human Summoner 5/Malconvoker 5/Summoner +10

    Stats: (32 PB)
    Str: 14
    Dex: 16
    Con: 14
    Int: 16
    Wis: 8
    Cha: 8

    Feats:
    1B: Augment Summoning [Bonus Summoner]
    1: Spell Focus (Conjuration)
    1B: Ashbound Summoning [Bonus Human]
    3: Beckon the Frozen
    6: Mobile Spellcasting
    8B: Skill Focus (Bluff) [Bonus Malconvoker]
    9: Summon Elemental [Reserve]
    12: Quicken Spell
    15: Accelerate Metamagic (Quicken Spell)
    18: Improved Initiative

    Items: Start with a longspear, chain shirt, buckler, and light crossbow.

    Magic items: Ring of the Beast [C. Champion], Ring of Mighty Summons [C. Mage], Ehlonna's Brooch [C. Champion], Bracers of Archery, Summoner's Totem [MIC], Chronocrym of the Uncaring Archmage [MIC] - can afford most or all by 8th level.
    Handbooks: (Hosted on BG)
    [3.5] The Poison Handbook
    [3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
    [3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Glad you like it! I like the fluff filler you suggested, definately plugging that in now.

    As for the Rapid summoning, I didn't want people taking a dip in the class for just that ability to augment some summoner build so I put it at third level.

    The reasoning for Augment Summoning at first level is that what summoner isn't going to take that feat? It was so obvious, the proverbial elephant in the room, so I just put it out there at first level. It kinda parallels warmage edge I think. Maybe you're right though. It does normally have prerequisites that non-humans can't meet until third level, specifically Spell focus: Conjuration, a feat that's almost useless to a summoner... I'll think about it.

    And now that I've heard it twice, maybe some summon-specific buffs are in order. Don't know why I thought the young king meant to buff the summoner earlier... Sorry.

    Edit: What about Mass Snake's Swiftness?

    I can't find what spirit shaman ability you're talking about, unless you're talking about guide magic. Although summoners don't get a spirit guide, I get what you mean, so yeah, adding somthing like that now too, if I can figure out how to word it properly.

    And I think your build needs more Cha. That's what determines their spellcasting. Most class abilities need Int though, again like warmage.

    Thanks for the input! I can't believe I didn't think of some of these things...
    Last edited by Jarrick; 2010-04-24 at 05:20 PM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Ok, added a few buffs and rearranged the spell list in alphabetical order. New class features added.

    Decided Snake's Swiftness was a little much.
    "To play a fighter is to play the game.
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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    I went a different route to make a warmage/beguiler/dread necro style character. Here is is: The Caller.

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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Wow. Last time I saw a warmage-style summoner, the question was "okay, so Summon Monster I-IX, what else?", and you've answered that quite well: all the other summon spells.

    I really like the persistant summoning ability, it's pretty much perfect. The only thing I would change is to swap it with rapid summoning, since wizards usually get that at 1st level, and having a persistent summon at level 1 changes them a lot more. Then again, having it last more than one round at level 1 is kind of required, so maybe not.

    I don't know if it was intentional, but I'm pretty sure you have more Advanced Learning's than most spontaneous classes. This is a good idea, since only being able to summon and teleport makes you a lot more limited, and advanced learning can add some blast, battlefield control, or if swapped for eclectic learning you could learn some more buffs for your dudes.

    And compliments to arguskos for that Mastery of Summoning ability. Most summoning PrCs tend to just focus on giving you a different template (so do the Summon Desert Ally spells for that matter.... and Conjure Ice Beast as well), but letting you choose your own template is pretty awesome. I wonder if one couldn't give this out earlier and then learn more templates to use with it as they went.

    Might I suggest going through Complete Mage for spells as well? I think Genius Loci would be a nice "greater watchdog" spell, and there might be a couple more summons in there. There's also a few more in Races of the Dragon (summoning a wyvern, dragon turtle, and weird plant dragon thing). Although I suppose leaving a few nifty summon spells off the main list allow for summoners that summon different creatures (instead of just having different extra conjurations).

    Hehe. One summoner summons a wacky plant dragon, then the other one summons a comet.

    Edit: and apparently the linked Caller class does just the thing with templates I was thinking of.
    Last edited by Fizban; 2010-04-25 at 02:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    sheer awesomeness

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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    This class looks pretty sweet, and fairly well balanced as well. There are a few minor things I noticed that could use a bit of cleaning up.

    You forgot to mention that they are proficient in light armor (at least I'm assuming they're supposed to be)

    You might want to expand some on the 'mastery of summoning' ability. For example, what about templates which have a different increase in CR based upon the hit dice of the summoned creature (half fiend, and half-celestial being most common). Also, perhaps comment on things like "can I add the fiendish template onto a summoned fiend" and other things like that.

    Also, you might want to specify how twinned summoning and flood summoning interact. For example, if I used a summon monster IX spell to summon 1d3 celestial dire bears, how many would show up?

    Would it be (1d3*1.5)*2 for an average of 6?
    Or would it be (1d3*2)+(1d3*0.5) for an average of 5?
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jarrick View Post
    I was aiming more for "Overwhelm with sheer numbers", but you may be right. Im playtesting this class right now in my thursday game and so far, it's proven capable of holding its own. If it starts lagging at the higher levels, I'll probably do just that. Also, summoners can get buffs from allies, meaning summoned critters with SLAs and of course other party members. After all, isn't using getting help from your allies what summoners do best?
    The problem here is that a huge amount of summons usually runs into problems both for the DM (to whom its a headache) and the other players (to whom it is a bore)

    Having more of a capability to enhance your summons (and make them single-target spells) should make it a bit more feasible in terms of player-DM mechanics.
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fizban View Post
    Wow. Last time I saw a warmage-style summoner, the question was "okay, so Summon Monster I-IX, what else?", and you've answered that quite well: all the other summon spells.
    I really like the persistant summoning ability, it's pretty much perfect.

    Wow, thanks!

    I don't know if it was intentional, but I'm pretty sure you have more Advanced Learning's than most spontaneous classes.

    It uses the Dread Necro's progression.

    And compliments to arguskos for that Mastery of Summoning ability. Most summoning PrCs tend to just focus on giving you a different template (so do the Summon Desert Ally spells for that matter.... and Conjure Ice Beast as well), but letting you choose your own template is pretty awesome. I wonder if one couldn't give this out earlier and then learn more templates to use with it as they went.

    I was thinking the same thing, maybe at 11th, 15th, and 19th levels. And yes, like molten dragon said, a little cleanup and clarification is in order there too. Maybe +2 LA or lower instead sinse those don't seem to scale with HD?

    Might I suggest going through Complete Mage for spells as well? I think Genius Loci would be a nice "greater watchdog" spell, and there might be a couple more summons in there. There's also a few more in Races of the Dragon (summoning a wyvern, dragon turtle, and weird plant dragon thing). Although I suppose leaving a few nifty summon spells off the main list allow for summoners that summon different creatures (instead of just having different extra conjurations).

    Hehe. One summoner summons a wacky plant dragon, then the other one summons a comet.

    It used to have a longer list, but I didn't like the idead of the class alone requiring 6 books to play, so I pared it down to core+SpC+PHb2. Plus, like you said, that gives them something to shoot for with advanced learning.
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    Having more of a capability to enhance your summons (and make them single-target spells) should make it a bit more feasible in terms of player-DM mechanics.
    I did that earlier after I realized the merit of what you said, and acknowledged you for it too! Thanks for the input!

    Unfurtunately, due to time constraints, I won't be able to make any further changes until way later tonite, but they are coming, so stay tuned!
    Last edited by Jarrick; 2010-04-25 at 09:11 AM.
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    This class looks pretty sweet, and fairly well balanced as well. There are a few minor things I noticed that could use a bit of cleaning up.

    You forgot to mention that they are proficient in light armor (at least I'm assuming they're supposed to be)

    Oops, got it.

    Also, you might want to specify how twinned summoning and flood summoning interact. For example, if I used a summon monster IX spell to summon 1d3 celestial dire bears, how many would show up?

    Would it be (1d3*1.5)*2 for an average of 6?
    Or would it be (1d3*2)+(1d3*0.5) for an average of 5?

    They can't be used at the same time, they are both swift actions, but I did make changes to explain for other metamagic feats.

    Edit: Changed the name and wording of the ability too.
    Thanks for the help!
    Last edited by Jarrick; 2010-04-25 at 07:31 PM.
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    How would you change your permanent summon? Is it just by redoing the hour long spell, or does your old one have to die first?

    When you call your permanent summons, if I chose a summon with the option for multiple monsters, do I get multiple permanents, or can I only chose spells with one monster?

    Also, can you apply your swift actions to your permanent summons? IE, can I have a permanent summons with max HP, or the max number of a swarm?
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Quote Originally Posted by ForzaFiori View Post
    How would you change your permanent summon? Is it just by redoing the hour long spell, or does your old one have to die first?

    The duration changes to Permanent(D), the (D) means dismissable, the summoner just dismisses the old summon when he wants a new one.

    When you call your permanent summons, if I chose a summon with the option for multiple monsters, do I get multiple permanents, or can I only chose spells with one monster?

    The description says the summoner can only have one such persistant summon at a time.

    Also, can you apply your swift actions to your permanent summons? IE, can I have a permanent summons with max HP, or the max number of a swarm?
    This is a good point, however. I'll clarify in the description that the creature is typical except for adjustments made by the Augment Summoning feat. Nice catch.

    Edit: Seriously, folks, find every hole in this you can, I want it to be as flawless as possible.
    Last edited by Jarrick; 2010-04-25 at 07:44 PM.
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    In one of the campaigns i'm in, I have a friend that is playing a reverse malconvoker so this would be very useful to him.
    By the way, a reverse malconvoker basically means that he is evil and summons good creatures.
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Quote Originally Posted by demidracolich View Post
    In one of the campaigns i'm in, I have a friend that is playing a reverse malconvoker so this would be very useful to him.
    By the way, a reverse malconvoker basically means that he is evil and summons good creatures.
    Hm, cool! I''ll have to try that.
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Why do all "Stop Aging" things still possess Death by old age. it makes no sense.

    They stopped aging, their bodies are not deteriorating. Whats the point in saying they still die of old age ? Its not like it effects game play, Who plays their characters out for 50+ Years game time anyway ?
    This has always bothered me.

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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Thread necromancy? On one of my threads? preposterous!

    Anyways, I dont really know myself. Since you become an outsider with this class's capstone, I might chane it to "You no longer die of old age".

    Please dont close me down, mods. I'll probably make that change this afternoon.
    Last edited by Jarrick; 2010-10-25 at 07:27 AM.
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    I know I'm late to the game, but I really like this class. I'd especially love to play one of these going into Alienist (and of course taking Obtain Familiar as soon as possible).

    One thing: While the capstone is fine as is, what about the possibility of gaining your chosen Mastery of Summoning template instead?

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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaje View Post
    I know I'm late to the game, but I really like this class. I'd especially love to play one of these going into Alienist (and of course taking Obtain Familiar as soon as possible).

    One thing: While the capstone is fine as is, what about the possibility of gaining your chosen Mastery of Summoning template instead?
    Hmm... That's a cool idea too... I think I'll do that.
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    I just realized that this class could actually make a not-horrible party healer. Rare for an arcane caster

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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Huh. I didnt realize that myself. Do you think this is a problem?
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Might be a bit powerful. It'd still be an awesome class if you limit Advanced Learning to just the Wiz/Sorc list.

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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    I think I'll just bar them from choosing from the [Healing] subschool. I dont know though, I intended for them to able to do a little healing simply by summoning things with healing SLA's and such, but that would be at higher levels. I think someone mentioned that it needed support spells earlier too...

    I'll take it out for now and see what anyone else thinks. Keep in mind that clerics and druids get full summoning lists and cure spells too.
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    Default Re: The Summoner (DnD 3.5 - p.e.a.c.h.)

    Very nifty class, subscribing. I've been torn between trying a Dread Necro and a Malconvoker for my next char, but I think I like this even more than either. Couple thoughts/questions...

    The "hordes of summons" thing can be a turn off for some DM's, so perhaps a dual path ala Rangers? "Horde" Summoner, and "Extra Tough Summons" Summoner?

    Also, the permanent summon: would it be affected by a Ring of Mighty Summons as well as Augment? Since a "typical" summoned creature would...

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