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    Default GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Main Project Thread is here.

    Welcome to the Giant in the Playground Conworlding Project Language Thread.

    What is this about? Well, linguistic discussion was taking up a large part of the thread. So the idea was offered that we make a thread mainly for language, as to not scare away others.

    Now, currently we are working on the Northern River Sharlaq Proto-Language, which we can then make other languages off of.

    Soon, I will post up the information I have accumulated.

    Now, linguistics time!

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    Last edited by Maximum Zersk; 2010-05-29 at 04:02 PM.

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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    I always thought the word kufe would be a cool replacement for the word life. Though I only think that because it was a typo I once made and I ran with it.
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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    The 'One Left' typo, eh?
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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Well, most people here won't know what I'm talking about (wait for MK's update on the first post), but how are the new 3rd Declension's Vowels going to be (I didn't check the others, but I guess they're okay)?
    I'm not an English native speaker. If you find any mistake, please PM me.

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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tulio d Bard View Post
    Well, most people here won't know what I'm talking about (wait for MK's update on the first post), but how are the new 3rd Declension's Vowels going to be (I didn't check the others, but I guess they're okay)?
    I just changed them into unrounded vowels.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    And bam, here's what I've got recorded for the Northern River-Sharlaq Proto-Language right now.

    Right here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    The Dreaded Third Post, sorry.

    Anyway, I have an idea. What if we had a negative at the end of the sentence? Like Japanese? (I have no idea if any other languages use that. ) So if you wanted to say, for example, "I didn't eat an apple", you would say, "Eat I an apple didn't." Sound good to you guys?

    Also, thinking more about the numbers. I'm thinking about one for "none", one for "single", one for "indefinite even", and one for "indefinite odd." How does this sound? So, let's say you didn't want to eat some apples. You would say "Eat I [indefinite odd] apple didn't", or something to that effect.

    Also, how should we go about working on the words, when we get to them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximum Zersk View Post
    The Dreaded Third Post, sorry.

    Anyway, I have an idea. What if we had a negative at the end of the sentence? Like Japanese? (I have no idea if any other languages use that. ) So if you wanted to say, for example, "I didn't eat an apple", you would say, "Eat I an apple didn't." Sound good to you guys?
    Could be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximum Zersk View Post
    Also, thinking more about the numbers. I'm thinking about one for "none", one for "single", one for "indefinite even", and one for "indefinite odd." How does this sound? So, let's say you didn't want to eat some apples. You would say "Eat I [indefinite odd] apple didn't", or something to that effect.
    Wait, why should we make things different if the number is even (not divisible by two) or odd (divisible by two)?
    Yeah, I didn't get what "indefinite even/odd" means...

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximum Zersk View Post
    Also, how should we go about working on the words, when we get to them?
    Now, THAT's a good question...
    I'll try to learn something on phonetics first. I guess it will be pretty important.
    I'm not an English native speaker. If you find any mistake, please PM me.

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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Wait, why should we make things different if the number is even (not divisible by two) or odd (divisible by two)?
    Yeah, I didn't get what "indefinite even/odd" means...
    _OOOOO_
    O\(O.o)/ Don't know, just thought of it on impulse. So, how bout Null, Singular, and Plural, then? Does that sound good?

    Now, THAT's a good question...
    I'll try to learn something on phonetics first. I guess it will be pretty important.
    I remember reading something on a Conlanging post saying that you should go about in the order that they learn about the object. For example. the word for "fire" would coming before "making fire."
    Last edited by Maximum Zersk; 2010-05-21 at 09:16 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Yeah, that makes sense. Also, we should define the syllable structure, and then build words from that. Common words should be short, one or two syllables. Except when they are related to other simple words. For instance, riverkin may have a word for 'water', and the word for 'sea' coming from 'harmful' and 'water' stuck together, because salt water might be harmful for them. The double word has evolved slightly, and although you can recognize the origins as 'harmful water', it is no longer two words but one. Like if it was "watermful", for instance.
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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Well, this is just a Proto-language, so we don't need to worry about language evolution yet. We'll get to that soon enough.

    The syllable structure is CVC. So Consonant-Vowel-Consonant. I'm thinking that the first Consonant won't be mandatory. How does that sound?

    I think that the first words to think of would be "water", "to see", and "to swim." Considering they are some of the first things that the Sharlaq will do in their lives, they'll come first.

    I'm thinking a bit. I'll post up some words as I think of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    ok, so [C]VC it is. Yeah, those are good first words. They may end up use 'swim' are our 'go'. Plus, of course, words for themselves.
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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    I thought the same thing, having the word "to go" and "to swim" as the same thing.

    Now let's see here...

    Water; Jiqq, Feminine.
    Forms of Jiqq would be: Jiqqsil, Jiqqech/Jiqqekh, Jiqqtsik, Jiqqching/Jiqqkhing, Jiqqech/Jiqqekh.

    Man, Romanization's a pain. Anyway, the "J" is pronounced like other European languages: like a "Y". And the ch is pronounced German style. Like "Kh". I made the word one syllable long, so it doesn't get too big.

    Anyway, moving on.

    Crap, I just remembered. We can't work on verbs until we've figured out how we're going to do tense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Yeah, we should really think about the other lexical classes we have (which are they and how they work).

    Besides naming first the things they do first, we could also name what the elders want them to learn first (gods, people [sharlaq, isn't it?], brother, etc.).
    I'm not an English native speaker. If you find any mistake, please PM me.

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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    I'm thinking of the standard ones; nouns, pronouns, verbs, adjective, adverbs, pre/postpositions, conjunctions, articles, etc.

    I've heard of conlangs that get rid of one of those classes. Don't know how to do it, though.

    I'll make a verb conjugation chart later.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Usually by having another category double up. For instance, a conlang may avoid adjectives like "red", instead having a verb "to red". "This car reds", "The table redded, but we painted it and now it blacks", "The traffic lights are redding" (because it's temporary), so on.

    I'm not sure this fits with any of our races. For verbs, what tenses are we gonna have? some conlangs have multiple pasts and futures. For instance, Sharlaq could have "past", "immediate past" (like, in the last hour or so, or maybe less. If something else big enough happened in between then it's no longer immediate past), "present", and "future".

    Highly technical gnomes, when we get to them, can get a full spectrum like ancient, distant past, recent past, yesterday, earlier today, immediate past, present, immediate future, tomorrow, in the next week, future, eventual future. Or something like that.

    The cool thing of conlangs is that one can experiment a lot, hehe.

    Back to Sharlaq, since it's agglutinative, then aspect (swam vs was swimming vs had swam) could be a different modifier.

    Jitsech = to swim (derived from Jiqq)
    Jitsechkul = swim(s)
    Jitsechtak = swam
    Jitsechkulol = is swimming
    Jitsechtakol = was swimming.
    Jitsechtakach = had swam
    Jitsechtakolach = had been swimming
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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    I don't really understand the difference. What is the difference between perfect and non-perfect, progressive and non-progressive exactly?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Perfect shows the action is over, while non-perfect means it was on-going. Basically:

    I ate this morning (I'm not eating now, but I was eating at the time I'm talking about)
    I had eaten already (I had finished eating before the time I'm talking about. The action was already complete, perfect)
    I was eating when the phone rang (I started eating before the phone rang, and I finished eating after that. The action was in progress)
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    Post Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximum Zersk View Post
    The Dreaded Third Post, sorry.

    Anyway, I have an idea. What if we had a negative at the end of the sentence? Like Japanese? (I have no idea if any other languages use that. ) So if you wanted to say, for example, "I didn't eat an apple", you would say, "Eat I an apple didn't." Sound good to you guys?
    Yoda you are?

    I actually have no idea what you're talking about here but I can't pass up a chance to say that. If this is about a new language, I've always found the way that Hebrew doesn't use vowels in everyday script at all. Perhaps that can be incorporated.

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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Cealocanth View Post
    Yoda you are?

    I actually have no idea what you're talking about here but I can't pass up a chance to say that. If this is about a new language, I've always found the way that Hebrew doesn't use vowels in everyday script at all. Perhaps that can be incorporated.
    The abjad? I've heard of those, yes. (In fact, I have to read a Semi-Abjad at least thrice a week.)

    Seems interesting. We'll get to that when it comes to writing system, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    There's one thing I always mess up here. Are our crocs pacific or aggressive? I believe it affects the language somehow. Aggressive would have more future tenses than past ones (focus on the future actions) and pacific would have more past tenses (focus on the history). It's just an opinion.

    And what are the grammatical persons (?) we'll have and which persons (?) will have different verb conjugations?
    Last edited by Tulio d Bard; 2010-05-24 at 07:44 PM.
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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tulio d Bard View Post
    There's one thing I always mess up here. Are our crocs pacific or aggressive? I believe it affects the language somehow. Aggressive would have more future tenses than past ones (focus on the future actions) and pacific would have more past tenses (focus on the history). It's just an opinion.

    And what are the grammatical persons (?) we'll have and which persons (?) will have different verb conjugations?
    The Sharlaq are largely pacific, so the tenses would be more past.

    I'll work on a table of persons and conjugation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Okay, Conjugation table time.

    {TABLE]|Singular|Plural
    First|
    -ak
    |
    --
    |
    Second|
    -ach
    |
    --
    |
    Third|
    -att
    |
    --
    |
    [/TABLE]

    Does this seem good? The plural would be the same as the singular. One would have to tell from context.

    Some Tenses.

    Ancient Past, Moderate Past, Recent Past, Present, Future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximum Zersk View Post
    Okay, Conjugation table time.

    {TABLE]|Singular|Plural
    First|
    -ak
    |
    --
    |
    Second|
    -ach
    |
    --
    |
    Third|
    -att
    |
    --
    |
    [/TABLE]

    Does this seem good? The plural would be the same as the singular. One would have to tell from context.

    Some Tenses.

    Ancient Past, Moderate Past, Recent Past, Present, Future.
    I think we can try it with no plurals.
    What's the difference between -ak and -ach pronunciation?
    I'm not an English native speaker. If you find any mistake, please PM me.

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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Ach is pronounced with the english ch. It's getting a bit confusing, so I'm going to reorganize the romanization.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Maximum Zersk View Post
    Ach is pronounced with the english ch. It's getting a bit confusing, so I'm going to reorganize the romanization.
    I see. I should really spend some time learning phonemes...
    Last edited by Tulio d Bard; 2010-05-26 at 03:05 PM.
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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Okay, verb time.

    To swim, to move; Jeqq
    To speak; Keng
    To see; Seh
    To breath; Nots
    To listen; Qey
    To be; Shul


    And pronouns.

    First-person singular; Tet
    Second-person singular; Erget
    Third-person singular; Shur

    First-person plural; Tetnij
    Second-person plural; Ergetnij
    Third-person plural; Shurnij


    EDIT: So a sentence may look like:

    Tetlaq sehak jiqekh. (I see water.)

    EDITEDIT: Whoops! Grammar mistake!

    Here's a fixed sentence.

    Sehak tetlaq jiqekh.
    Last edited by Maximum Zersk; 2010-05-25 at 11:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


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  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Maximum Zersk's Avatar

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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Moar wurds.

    Nouns
    {TABLE]English|Sharlaq|Gender||English|Sharlaq|Gender||English|Sharlaq|Gender
    Fire|Tsun|Neuter||Head|Nang|Masculine||Flow
    Sky|Chal|Masculine||Hand|Ngiol|Feminine||Spring
    Clouds|Het|Neuter||Tail|Terat|Neuter||Summer
    Sea|Jiqqtill|Masculine||Mouth|Kengnang|Masculine||Fall
    Order|Adqan|Neuter||Arm|Tsaiar|Masculine||Winter
    Chaos|Tsinadqan|Neuter||Leg|Shot|Neuter||Tree
    Male|Ngoin|Masculine||Foot|Nok|Neuter||Animal
    Female|Khar|Feminine||Stomach|Tsouh|Feminine||Magic
    Child|Shar|Feminine||Chest|Arget|Masculine
    Land|Etsat|Masculine||Eye|Sehneken|Feminine
    River|Etsatjiqq|Feminine||Snout/Nose|Edetneken|Neuter
    Rain|Chaljiqq|Neuter||Light|Oidul|Neuter
    Island|Jiqqtilletsat|Masculine||Shadow|Dene'oidul|Neuter
    Small Island|Jiqqtsintilletsat|Masculine||Sun|Etairajoqqul|Feminine
    Creek|Tsintilletsatjiqq|Feminine||Moon|Denetairajoqqul|Masculine
    Past|Otsten|Masculine||Day|Etaira|Feminine
    Future|Eten|Feminine||Night|Denetaira|Masculine
    Seer|Etensehsharlaq|Feminine||Star|Joqqul|Neuter
    [/TABLE]

    Adjectives
    {TABLE]English|Sharlaq
    Big|Atill
    Small|Tsintill
    Hot|Tseqq
    Cold|Tsintseqq
    Fast|Dek
    Slow|Tsindek
    Far|Aik
    Close|Tsinaik
    Blind|Denseh
    [/TABLE]

    Verb
    {TABLE]English|Sharlaq
    To live|Altateq
    To die|Denaltateq
    To hear|Aeqateq
    To eat|Qqenteq
    To drink|Jiqqenteq
    [/TABLE]

    Articles
    {TABLE]English|Sharlaq
    The (Definite Article, Masculine)|Jash
    The (Definite Article, Feminine)|Jesh
    The (Definite Article, Neuter)|Josh
    A (Indefinite Article, Masculine)|Ajash
    A (Indefinite Article, Feminine)|Ajesh
    A (Indefinite Article, Neuter)|Ajosh
    [/TABLE]

    Postpositions
    {TABLE]English|Sharlaq
    Above|Khoin
    Under|Denakhoin
    Within|Terdoin
    Without|Denaterdoin
    Beside|Choin
    Behind|Denajoin
    In front|Join
    To|Qoin
    From|Toroin
    [/TABLE]

    Sentence example.

    The man sees under the sun.

    Sees the man the sun under.

    Sehatt jash ngoinlaq jesh Etairrajoqqulkhing denakhoin.
    Last edited by Maximum Zersk; 2010-05-26 at 11:13 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


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  29. - Top - End - #29
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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Wow, you advanced things a lot now!

    Then we have the following endings:
    • Nouns: -sil, -qekh, -tsik, -khing, -qqeh, -laq, -yal, -chaaq, -ngil, -was, -ruk, -hokh, -nuqq, -ur, -onguk;
    • Verbs: -ak, -ach, -att (we only have present tense until now);
    • Postpositions: -oin;

    We also have the Hak- prefix for plural nouns, the infix -nij- (between the stem and the declension suffix) for plural pronouns, and the prefix Dena- for opposite postpositions.
    All the articles have an -sh ending and indefinite articles have an A- prefix, although there is no problem using them in other words (I guess).

    The Tsin particle indicates "opposite" and Dene means something like "night version".

    Are pronouns normally declined (according to gender)?
    Is there any reason for all those -teq verb endings or were you just making things simpler?
    Does "Beside"/"Choing" have this ending "g"?

    Shouldn't we decline Etairrajoqqul as Locative, making it Etairrajoqqulkhing?

    Just say if I got anything wrong here.
    I'm not an English native speaker. If you find any mistake, please PM me.

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    (Dream & Matthew by kpenguin)


    (Sharlaq by Soterion)

    Check our Worldbuilding Project and Worldbuilding Project's Language Thread.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Maximum Zersk's Avatar

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    Default Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Tulio d Bard View Post
    Wow, you advanced things a lot now!

    Then we have the following endings:
    • Nouns: -sil, -qekh, -tsik, -khing, -qqeh, -laq, -yal, -chaaq, -ngil, -was, -ruk, -hokh, -nuqq, -ur, -onguk;
    • Verbs: -ak, -ach, -att (we only have present tense until now);
    • Postpositions: -oin;

    We also have the Hak- prefix for plural nouns, the infix -nij- (between the stem and the declension suffix) for plural pronouns, and the prefix Dena- for opposite postpositions.
    All the articles have an -sh ending and indefinite articles have an A- prefix, although there is no problem using them in other words (I guess).
    Basically Right.

    The Tsin particle indicates "opposite" and Dene means something like "night version".
    Generally. Tsin indicates opposite, yes. Dene means "lack of".

    Are pronouns normally declined (according to gender)?
    Yep. If the gender is unknown, neuter is used.

    Is there any reason for all those -teq verb endings or were you just making things simpler?
    They were meant to show infinitives. It's something I've noticed while learning German. Verb Infinitives will end in -en. Segeln, Haben, Moechten, etc.. Only the Irregular verbs would be different.

    Does "Beside"/"Choing" have this ending "g"?
    Oh, yeah, didn't notice that.

    Shouldn't we decline Etairrajoqqul as Locative, making it Etairrajoqqulkhing?
    Oh, whoops.

    I'll fix the mistakes, then.

    A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!

    Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project.

    Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.

    Spoiler
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    Thanks. I just happen to be a hug Grammar Nazi at times. Sorry if it bothers you at all.
    Regardless of whether that was intentional or not, I think I love you.


    Spoiler
    Show




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