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2010-08-27, 01:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
Yeah, it is quite a lot.
I like the idea that the Sea Sharlaq are more aggressive than their river counterparts, the sea being a far more hostile environment in general than
The thing about thoughts is, nobody knows anything about how they work. As humans, we are limited to human communications, and human interactions, and more importantly, human words. When I think of something, in a more generalized, non-specific way, I tend to associate colors. This allows me to create connections between different subjects via color, subconsciously. This is a fact that I have only recently come to realize, and it is striking. I can understand the reasoning behind disliking Thoughtspeech, and the way it is written up is probably wrong for what is attempting to be said. Thoughtspeech wouldn't be so much personalized, as varying depending on the way the person thinks. The point is, if I think in color, but another person thinks in shapes, then you have to have a different language for them. Because thought is so much less limiting and limited when compared to words, it isn't necessarily a language, in the sense that you can't learn it in a school. Only through understanding a persons mind, through intense years of study, and personal sacrifices (political sacrifices, social sacrifices, family and emotional sacrifices) would a person be able to truly communicate with a mind. Even then, almost all communication would be hazy and indistinct. If you knew someone for years, and years, you still might not understand their thoughts, even if you were to study them the entire time. The thing about thoughts is, they are most often faster than most people have the capability of perceiving. Most people use those connections mentioned earlier, via patterns, colors, shapes or a multitude of other such ways, in order to condense, and speed up thoughts. This is what has probably led humans to be such a varied and evolved species. I can understand that one would not want mind reading, but this is actually a step away from most mind reading in the classical fantasy sense; it is far, far harder to be a mind reader in this case than it is in most other fantasy settings, and one has to make many, many sacrifices just to come to the level that they can communicate with another person. This adds another level of social interaction to those few who are able to read minds at all, and then communicate with them.
TL;DR: Thoughtspeech is an attempt at a more realistic version of mind reading. Of course, those neurosciences things that I am talking about are not based on what I have researched, or what I know for fact; only what I have observed within my own mind. Interpret this as you will.
I love writing systems, and that is a very, very cool link. Thanks!
I think you just won something. Not that there was a contest, or anything.
Well, it is less aggressive than action oriented, most likely. Of course, I am only interpreting what I am think about the matter, but it seems that aggression stems not necessarily from a thought process, but from emotion, which is very hard to control, at least compared to such thought processes.Last edited by unosarta; 2010-08-27 at 01:06 AM.
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2010-08-27, 01:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
In other words, SCIENCE!
I think you just won something. Not that there was a contest, or anything.
Well, it is less aggressive than action oriented, most likely. Of course, I am only interpreting what I am think about the matter, but it seems that aggression stems not necessarily from a thought process, but from emotion, which is very hard to control, at least compared to such thought processes.
A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!
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Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.
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2010-08-27, 01:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
Obligatory SCIENCE link is obligatory.
I'm sure you do...
Hm, that might be interesting. What are the angles being taken with the humans anyway?
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2010-08-27, 01:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!
Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project.
Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.
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2010-08-27, 01:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
O_O
As in this Kamina? This should prove intense. Maybe all of their language is made with the highest priority being to look bad a**? I suppose that might prove more of a cultural characteristic, than a linguistical one.
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2010-08-27, 02:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!
Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project.
Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.
Spoiler
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2010-08-27, 02:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
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2010-08-27, 02:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
[QUOTE=unosarta;9233825]Oh my god... you just won something again.
[/QUOTE[
Toldja I did it a lot.
Still, that would be a very interesting cultural trait. How would they have survived for so long, being mini-Kamina's? You'd think they would have died a heroic death early on.
Of course, any discussion that has to do with the culture should really go into the main thread.
A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!
Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project.
Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.
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2010-08-27, 02:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
I couldn't find a prize, so here, have a cat rolling a watermelon out of a lake. You earned it.
That would be interesting. Who would they pillage? The Sharlaq? It would be interesting to see them meet the Sea Sharlaq.
Oh, right, sorry.
Anyway, back to languages. Um... yeah. Now is when I would make an obligatory table, but I already made it.
Awkward.
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2010-08-27, 02:57 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
Ohwhythankyou.
That would be interesting. Who would they pillage? The Sharlaq? It would be interesting to see them meet the Sea Sharlaq.
Or they could just go pillage "Random Human Nation A" or "Random Sharlaq Nation Jaqs".
Oh, right, sorry.
Anyway, back to languages. Um... yeah. Now is when I would make an obligatory table, but I already made it.
Awkward.
Well, anyway. I'll see what I can do with the Souther River-Sharlaq and the Sea Sharlaq language.
A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!
Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project.
Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.
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2010-08-27, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
Ah, but here appears a problem. If the humans were to "adventure," in the same way that many RPGs handle it, they would be far, far more wealthy than others. Therefore, almost everyone would at least want to be an adventurer. One way to take it, would be that adventuring, as a human who would raid, would involve a lot more danger and death, and would also get hardly any pay. Those who do adventure are welcome in communities, but feared, and also tend to be a little bit crazy, more like how mercenaries are, but tied to a community.
Yeah. I really like the idea that they are so different, while they might appear to be similar. I wonder how cultural interactions between Sea Sharlaq and River Sharlaq play out.
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2010-08-27, 04:43 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!
Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project.
Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.
Spoiler
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2010-08-27, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
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2010-08-27, 06:49 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
Wow, you got it exactly! (Thoughtspeech? )
I like the idea that the Sea Sharlaq are more aggressive than their river counterparts, the sea being a far more hostile environment in general than
The thing about thoughts is, nobody knows anything about how they work. As humans, we are limited to human communications, and human interactions, and more importantly, human words. When I think of something, in a more generalized, non-specific way, I tend to associate colors. This allows me to create connections between different subjects via color, subconsciously. This is a fact that I have only recently come to realize, and it is striking. I can understand the reasoning behind disliking Thoughtspeech, and the way it is written up is probably wrong for what is attempting to be said. Thoughtspeech wouldn't be so much personalized, as varying depending on the way the person thinks. The point is, if I think in color, but another person thinks in shapes, then you have to have a different language for them. Because thought is so much less limiting and limited when compared to words, it isn't necessarily a language, in the sense that you can't learn it in a school. Only through understanding a persons mind, through intense years of study, and personal sacrifices (political sacrifices, social sacrifices, family and emotional sacrifices) would a person be able to truly communicate with a mind. Even then, almost all communication would be hazy and indistinct. If you knew someone for years, and years, you still might not understand their thoughts, even if you were to study them the entire time. The thing about thoughts is, they are most often faster than most people have the capability of perceiving. Most people use those connections mentioned earlier, via patterns, colors, shapes or a multitude of other such ways, in order to condense, and speed up thoughts. This is what has probably led humans to be such a varied and evolved species. I can understand that one would not want mind reading, but this is actually a step away from most mind reading in the classical fantasy sense; it is far, far harder to be a mind reader in this case than it is in most other fantasy settings, and one has to make many, many sacrifices just to come to the level that they can communicate with another person. This adds another level of social interaction to those few who are able to read minds at all, and then communicate with them.
TL;DR: Thoughtspeech is an attempt at a more realistic version of mind reading. Of course, those neurosciences things that I am talking about are not based on what I have researched, or what I know for fact; only what I have observed within my own mind. Interpret this as you will.
I love writing systems, and that is a very, very cool link. Thanks!
I love you! <3
Burk from Neorice's A Path to Greater Good is a good example too, speaking of awesomeness.
They would care about their people in general, being impulsive/agrssive but also lovable.
Evil humans, on the other side, would be power thirsty, measuring no efforts or consequences to reach their goals.
I think that's like maxing usual human traits.
Even those who stayed home would do things in an awesome way on their daily basis.
Their lives could be ruled by tropes (Narrativium?), though that could make the world a bit unreal-looking (not sure).
Of course, any discussion that has to do with the culture should really go into the main thread.
And there were some guys who said humans were boring!
Yeah. I really like the idea that they are so different, while they might appear to be similar. I wonder how cultural interactions between Sea Sharlaq and River Sharlaq play out.
So, back on subject, how would Kaminan Humans' language look like? (Just general traits. We're still on Gnomish)Last edited by Tulio d Bard; 2010-08-27 at 10:47 PM.
I'm not an English native speaker. If you find any mistake, please PM me.
Check our Worldbuilding Project and Worldbuilding Project's Language Thread.
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2010-08-27, 07:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
Maybe...
That is the problem. He connects and correlates thoughts with shapes, but receives a thought that is connected and correlated via sound. His mind would have no way of connecting those thoughts, which is why you would have to spend years upon years studying. Feeling would be fine, but that brings up its own can of worms. If someone associates different memories, and different ideas to different feelings, the feelings they apply will still be different based on the situation. This actually might be even more restrictive than doing associative thoughtspeech, because you would have to understand a persons feelings and emotions as perfectly as you understand your own, and if you wanted a two way conversation, they would have to understand you perfectly as well, and it would have to be done in a case by case basis; as in, I could learn to read "Charlie's" emotions and feelings, but that would take a huge amount of time, and ready access to Charlie's mind. Or I could learn to read his actual thoughts. Let's say that Charlie associates via... numbers. So when he sees a pattern, or a set of numbers within an experience or an emotion, he associates other feelings or experiences by that same number. In this version, you would have to understand how number associations would work, but after that would only require minimal contact with Charlie in order to understand his associations, since you already know how it works.
That was my first reaction. And yes, having a people be "anime" in emotion, but regular people in power adds a whole different level of experience to them, and their culture. Such powerful emotions would be hard to control, and not having the ability to do anything with your life, or even react to your emotions would lead to a lot of frustrations, which could in turn lead to more violence, and more passion altogether.
The trope idea could be interesting. Maybe they have a group of people (political or not) who attempt to "break" the tropes?
UGH, but it is so much!
I'll get on it, as soon as I am done posting this.
Why would someone say that? Because they are magical, and sort of seem similar to everyday humans?
That would be interesting. Also, I love the idea of some old Sea Sharlaq waving his cane at the minnows, shouting "You kids get off of my kelp! Kids these days, back in may day, we had to swim 10 miles through the snow just to get a bite to eat!"
Hm... Probably some form of VOS, or something like that. It would be interesting if their syllables were (C)V(C). That would give them the ability to have have a word like: "GRAAAAAAA!!!" And still have it have meaning.
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2010-08-27, 10:23 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
When I suggested "feelings", I wanted it to be restrictive. But I don't think it would be very useful to usual communication, so "thoughts" might be better.
That was my first reaction. And yes, having a people be "anime" in emotion, but regular people in power adds a whole different level of experience to them, and their culture. Such powerful emotions would be hard to control, and not having the ability to do anything with your life, or even react to your emotions would lead to a lot of frustrations, which could in turn lead to more violence, and more passion altogether.
The trope idea could be interesting. Maybe they have a group of people (political or not) who attempt to "break" the tropes?
*adding a link to my last post in case someone doesn't know what Narrativium means*
UGH, but it is so much!
I'll get on it, as soon as I am done posting this.
Why would someone say that? Because they are magical, and sort of seem similar to everyday humans?
That would be interesting. Also, I love the idea of some old Sea Sharlaq waving his cane at the minnows, shouting "You kids get off of my kelp! Kids these days, back in may day, we had to swim 10 miles through the snow just to get a bite to eat!"
Disclaimer: No he's not too much like that. And I do like him.
Hm... Probably some form of VOS, or something like that. It would be interesting if their syllables were (C)V(C). That would give them the ability to have have a word like: "GRAAAAAAA!!!" And still have it have meaning.
And back to gnomish, we'd need to decide about Gender, Number and those things and then create some words, wouldn't we?I'm not an English native speaker. If you find any mistake, please PM me.
Check our Worldbuilding Project and Worldbuilding Project's Language Thread.
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2010-08-27, 10:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
Yeah, it just seemed too restricting. And yeah, as you said, it wouldn't do very well for communication. Although, really, it doesn't do very well anyway, since you have to be a pretty powerful mage in order to accomplish that sort of feat anyway.
Hm, this is good. Especially that "chances to say badass things" bit.
Ah, Terry Pratchett. He is an awesome author. I really need to go read Discworld.
I did.
And I posted in the thread. So, yeah.
What I saw was that people wanted a difference between Gnomes and Humans. And yeah, the changes that the conworld has gone through have been... interesting. But altogether too slow.
That exchange of words pretty much applies to every awesome old guy. I know quite a few.
Did you see my idea above? I suggested that for Gnomish we could, instead of conjugating verbs, conjugate the particles that affect them. It is just an idea.
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2010-08-28, 09:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
Wouldnt shalaq have many words for water similar to how eskimos have many different words for snow?
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When in doubt, magma.
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2010-08-28, 10:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
That's a bit untrue.
Ya see, there's no single Inuit language. There's a whole bunch of languages that tribes all over the territories speak.
Second, the hundreds of words part is a bit misleading. See, since the Inuit languages are polysynthetic (that is, a single word is a sentence), there are basically an infinite amount of combinations, so technically there's an infinite amount of words.
Third, Sharlaqspeech is an agglutinative language, so it wouldn't have as many.
Finally, it's Sharlaq.
A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!
Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project.
Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.
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2010-08-28, 08:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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2010-08-28, 08:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
Oh, sorta. Like I said, North Riversharlaq is an Agglutinative language, so, for example, tilljiqq, 'big water' could be considered a word all it's own.
A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!
Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project.
Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.
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2010-08-29, 12:41 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
Whoa... This has moved so fast. I'm off to bed now, but tomorrow I'll try to post something more.
The abilities of the Force: Control, Alter, Delete.
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My Little Dashie made me cry.
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!
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2010-08-29, 11:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-08-29, 03:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!
Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project.
Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.
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2010-08-29, 03:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
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2010-08-29, 03:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
Meh, it's basically a grammar construction now. If you feel the need to fix that, do so with a lot of other idiosyncratic speech contructs.
A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!
Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project.
Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.
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2010-08-29, 03:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
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2010-08-29, 03:32 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!
Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project.
Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.
Spoiler
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2010-08-29, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
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2010-08-29, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread
So I'm Tzeentch now, eh? Fun.
But anyway, I think I'll do some quick work on the Wiki page for the Sharlaq language after I'm done the write-up in the other thread.
A webcomic by Sahaar and I, Shadow of Fire. Read it!
Giant in the Playground Worldbuilding Project.
Avatar by James Cameron. Or Michael Dante DiMartino and Bryan Konietzko. Oh wait, I mean Tom Siddell.
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