GitP Conworlding/Worldbuilding Project - Language Thread

[unosarta]

So I'm Tzeentch now, eh? Fun.

It is a very disturbing that one of the gods of chaos is also the god of Wikipedia.

But anyway, I think I'll do some quick work on the Wiki page for the Sharlaq language after I'm done the write-up in the other thread.

OK.

[ref]

Basic Grammar

Well, this is the point where you start needing words in the language you're making, but I suck at doing that, so I'm gonna leave that to people with more inventive. Particles are to be one syllable, while other words are at least two. (Mood and certainty indicators can be one, too).

The way to go is to make a list of the different particles and indicators that there will be. This is supposed to be a long list.

Now about the noun construction, there is a particle meaning "quality", this will go immediately after the noun (though, as usual, it can be moved to before the noun if you want to concentrate on that). This is usually how you use adjectives: bird (quality) big, but it is used too to make some nouns that are closely related to each other. water (quality) falling means "rain", water (quality) flowing is a river, so on. Water (quality) hard would be "ice", and although it's not totally true, water (quality) hard (quality) falling would be "snow".

Some of the nouns have evolved into "noun classes". For instance, it was said that the gnomes have lots of metals, and a use / meaning for every one (at least it was suggested). Language reflects that by including a "metal" particle. (Not really a particle, but working much as one).

Verbs can take the quality particle to form adverbs, and in fact, a few new verbs are also formed like this, vg walk (quality) fast, or run. However, the quality particle is not to be abused. The general guideline is to speak the necessary info to get understood and no more, really. If the other speaker feels he needs more data, he will repeat our sentence with the added data and the mood indicator of question.

This will likely raise some questions among you guys, so feel free to shoot away. Next time I check this thread, we might likely be on page 10. :-P

[Maximum Zersk]

Ooh, neat. So if I wanted to say, "I quickly ate a red apple", it'd be like this.

Eat(quality)quickly (sub)I (direct)Apple(quality)red (time)before (certain).

[ref]

That's correct grammar. Nice!

[unosarta]

Ooh, neat. So if I wanted to say, "I quickly ate a red apple", it'd be like this.

Eat(quality)quickly (sub)I (direct)Apple(quality)red (time)before (certain).

Interesting. That is a lot of particles. Maybe we should make a list of particles for Gnomish? I have no idea what particles they might use, so I am going to let Ref do that before I make a table.

[Tulio d Bard]

Am I getting it wrong, or are we gonna have much less words than languages as English? From the "water" example, we'll have one noun in place of four others (and ref only cited few). The particles don't really add to the word count since they're used to build lots of words. So we'd have a word that is used in many others derivative from it, and a quality particle that is used in many words with the same characteristic.

One thing I thought we could do to create the words is to use "particles" for that. But not the same way we did with sharlaq. We could give each letter phoneme a meaning. So the word itself shows its own meaning/essence, making it possible to figure that without knowing it previously. That would be very general like "a" means "material", "r" means "spiritual", "l" means "tool". We'd have to be very careful if we did this, because a bad choice of meanings would make some words impossible to make or not matching with the meaning of the letters phoneme. And probably not all letters have a meaning, so that we can make different words for similar things.

[Maximum Zersk]

So, basically, sound symbolism?

[Tulio d Bard]

I didn't know it existed.... ._.
But yeah, sound symbolism.

[unosarta]

I didn't know it existed.... ._.
But yeah, sound symbolism.

This sounds like an interesting thought.

[Maximum Zersk]

Okay, I think I got an idea for one of the Human's Protolanguage to work on after the Gnoman language.

How about a Polysynthetic Tonal language that is Tripartite? The Sentence order would be SVO.

What do you think?

[unosarta]

Okay, I think I got an idea for one of the Human's Protolanguage to work on after the Gnoman language.

How about a Polysynthetic Tonal language that is Tripartite? The Sentence order would be SVO.

What do you think?

Sounds interesting. I actually have pretty much written up the instectoid language, and I have given them a class/caste system. They are a hivemind, so they rarely if ever use it, but when they come into contact with other races they would use it. It sounds very... distinct would probably be the best word.

I suppose I had better start typing it up.

Also; Tripartite? Wikipedia here I come!

[Edit]: Even after reading the Wiki, I don't really understand. So, there is a different suffix to the object and subject? Huh.

...And, here is the language.


Xsoaetsziq (The Blind Ones)

Known as the Blind Ones to those who are unable, or who do not know, the Xsoaetsziq language, the Xsoaetsziq are strange, insect like beings that live almost entirely underground. They dig their hives around their Queen, and are located deep, deep underground. They go above ground for food, and are notorious scavengers, eating anything at all, as long as it is edible.

The hive is a giant mass of underground tunnels and twisting passages. They loop and turn, causing all but the most experienced to become infinitely lost. The hive has very few entrances to it that are on the surface, but usually has one, which appears as a giant dome, which several smallish holes all over it, roughly 20 feet wide.

The Sighted go out of the hive, and lead the Fanged to food, with powerful pheromones. The Fanged take the food back to the Hive, and present it to their Queen. At the end of the day, all of the Xsoaetsziq gather in the Queen’s birthing chamber, where she sits with her Water-Bearers, and gorges on the food. At this point, the hive is in the most danger that it could be in, and the Clawed usually take shifts between gorging and guarding.

The Gorge lasts about 2 hours. Afterwards, the Xsoaetsziq either sleep, or continue working. Usually the Sighted and Fanged sleep, and the Workers take shifts of working and sleeping. The Queen usually sleeps at this point, but even from her unconscious, she guides the Hive.

If the Hive becomes too big for the surrounding area to support it, the Queen will have the water-bearers hatch the Queen Egg, which holds a new Queen, and then the Queen teaches the new Queen all she knows, before the new Queen leaves with about half of the population.

If a Queen dies, then the Queen Egg is also hatched, but contains all of the old Queen’s memories. If the Queen Egg is hatched, and the Queen is still alive, she must immediately set out to make another, which is a process that takes several days. The Queen Egg is incredibly hard, and is actually stronger than many types of stone. Only the Water-Bearers have the right pheromones to be able to hatch the Queen Egg without hurting the Queen.

The Queen is able to change the type of Xsoaetsziq that any of her subjects are, by spending several hours in their presence, and concentrating on them. She usually likes to keep them around the same percentages. A normal hive’s makeup is usually as so:

{table=head]Position|Percent
Queen|Only 1

Worker|15%

Fanged|20%

Clawed|30%

Water-Bearers|5%

Sighted|30%[/table]

Workers maintain and construct the hive. They are low and menial, barely having any status at all within the hive.

Queens, obviously, bear children, and usually assign workers to take care of them. Queens also have a connection to the mind of every single bug in the hive.

Sighted are able to see above ground, and lay scent trails for the Fanged to follow. They are physically the weakest of the bunch, but are very quick, and agile.

Clawed stay in the hive and protect their Queen. They fight off predators, and anyone trying to hurt her. A full 25% of the hive might be Clawed at a time. If they need more, any non-Queen can be converted into another species, if the Queen wills it.

Fanged retrieve food for the hive. They are the most physically powerful, but also not very well equipped in a fight. They are slow and lumbering, but able to fend off usually anything that might attack them. They usually deposit food that the Sighted have found, for their Queen's inspection.

Water-Bearers are the mates of the Queen. Because she is almost constantly giving birth, they also function as the raisers of children, if there are enough, and as midwives to the Queen, as well has fertilizing her eggs. Water-Bearers have even less personality as the other jobs in the hive, their entire will and focus going to the Queen and her children. At least one is almost constantly in the process of fertilizing her eggs.

Their language is very, very simple. It’s basic syllable structure is (C)V(V)(C), and the sentence structure at its most basic is OVS. Full sentence structure is as follows:

(Time) Object (Smell) Subject + Verb (Question)

Time is when the sentence happened. Object is pretty much self explanatory. Smell is locational and adverbs, and also slightly adjective-like. Subject and Verb are pretty much self explanatory. Question is where one would add a question word (such as who, what, where, when, why, how, etc).

Phonemes:

Consonants

{table=head]Consonants|Pronunciation

Xs| [Ks]

S| [S]

Sz| [Ts]

Kz| [Kz]

K| [K]

Q| [tʃ]

T| [t]

-X| [Ks] (Only appears at the end of a syllable)[/table]


Vowels

{table=head]Vowels|Pronunciation

A|/æ/

O|/ʌ/

E|/ɛ/

I|/iː/

Oo|/uː/[/table]


Lexicon
{table=head]English|Xsoaetsziq

Queen|Kzaat

Hive|Soqkzaat

Darkness|Xsook

Abdomen|Szoxsat

Worker|Kzasoq

Sighted|Katszao

Sight|Szao

No|Siq

Yes|Kat

Sand|Soq

Earth|Szosoq

Cold|Xsat

Person|Kzakaet

Mind|Kaetsoq

Eye/s|Xsik

Smell|Xsaek

Nose/Scent Receptacle|Xsaet

Mother|Xsoaet

Children|Sziq

Eat|Qit

Food|Kexsa

For|Xsot

Hate|Qaq

Go|Kak

Come|Taq

Find (Food)|Qet

Retrieve|Szi

Water|Kzoak

Fanged|Katqoei

Clawed|Qokta

Water-Bearer|Kzoaxse

End|Sax

Beginning|Szoq

Kill|Xsix

Die|Kzao

Shell|Xsisk

Protect|Xsiskax

Think/Know|Xsooq

Remember|Xsaiq

Create|Saxso

Nurture|Sek

We|Qek

I (Hive)|Kaq

You (Hive)|Kot

(Commanding)|Sexsek

Him (Neuter)|Sesok

[/table]


Smells

{table=head]English|Xsoaetsziq

Strong|Qit

Weak|Kzoa

In the hive|Saq

Danger|Kzaeq

Bad|Kzoat

Good|Xsaa

Friendly|Saex

Loved|Siex

Female|Kit

Male|Kax

Neuter|Sot

Urgent|Kzox

Many|Szo
[/table]


Time
{table=head]English|Xsoaetsziq

Always|Kixso

Later|Six

Now|Szeq

Earlier|Szaq
[/table]


Question
{table=head]English|Xsoaetsziq

What|Kexsit

Who|Kexsat

Where|Kzoxsoet

When|Kooxsaq

How|Kixsoat[/table]



The Xsoaetsziq have no concept of why, or of exact time. Their number system is power of 5.


They have actually been statted out for D&D, and submitted to the GITP Monster Competition, for 3.5.

[Maximum Zersk]

Basically, in Tripartite, there are three different cases: Subject of Intransitive Verb, Subject of Transitive Verb, and Object of Intransitive Verb.

Also, looks great! Might wanna post the info about the Xsoaetsziq in the main thread.

[unosarta]

Basically, in Tripartite, there are three different cases: Subject of Intransitive Verb, Subject of Transitive Verb, and Object of Intransitive Verb.

Interesting.

Also, looks great! Might wanna post the info about the Xsoaetsziq in the main thread.

OK!

[Maximum Zersk]

Agh, I should be working on this... but I'm not... >.>

[unosarta]

Agh, I should be working on this... but I'm not... >.>

I know! >_<
All of my creative juices are being sapped by D&D.

[Tulio d Bard]

I know! >_<
All of my creative juices are being sapped by D&D.

You are the lucky one then...

[ref]

Hmm... I'm sorry I disappeared. September is always mad crazy.

[unosarta]

You are the lucky one then...

Yeah, at least I have the chance to do a little bit of that.

[Tulio d Bard]

Well, does anyone here know anything about sound symbolism that isn't from Wikipedia? It says there that the meaning each phoneme has is similar in different cultures, and they usually carry a general meaning (sharp, big, strong, protecting, etc). Gnomes, I believe, would have this in a slightly different way. Keeping in mind that their language is mostly planned, they'd put sound symbolism artificially, having phonemes attributed to the things that are more present in their lives: metal, tool, being, flying are some examples. We should remember that working this way, we must be really careful when we choose the meanings. If too many phonemes have a meaning and we eventually have no options to write a word with none of those, that word might be misinterpreted.

[Maximum Zersk]

Well, does anyone here know anything about sound symbolism that isn't from Wikipedia? It says there that the meaning each phoneme has is similar in different cultures, and they usually carry a general meaning (sharp, big, strong, protecting, etc). Gnomes, I believe, would have this in a slightly different way. Keeping in mind that their language is mostly planned, they'd put sound symbolism artificially, having phonemes attributed to the things that are more present in their lives: metal, tool, being, flying are some examples. We should remember that working this way, we must be really careful when we choose the meanings. If too many phonemes have a meaning and we eventually have no options to write a word with none of those, that word might be misinterpreted.

No, not much beyond Wikipedia. Though you do have a good point. From what I've seen of English sound symbolism, it's been restricted to only the vowels, "ah", "o", and "i".

[Tulio d Bard]

No, not much beyond Wikipedia. Though you do have a good point. From what I've seen of English sound symbolism, it's been restricted to only the vowels, "ah", "o", and "i".

It seems that there are some other ones. Note that they're kinda present in many languages. b-, for example, is more present in, say, "barriers", "bulges" and "bursting" words than other sounds. There are some cases in which a combination of phonemes carry a meaning, rather than a single one (mp for example would make the action more forceful, like in 'step' X 'stamp'). But it would be much more complicated if we think of these double ones. Gnomish would probably use a combination of artificial Clustering
and natural Iconism.

"Clustering is language dependent, although closely related languages will have similar clustering relationships."
"It is suggested by Magnus that this kind of iconism is universal across languages."

[Ranger Mattos]

I find this GitP conworlding project interesting. However, I won't be saying much since I'm trying to build my own world right now.

Anyways, anyone looked at this?

[Maximum Zersk]

It seems that there are some other ones. Note that they're kinda present in many languages. b-, for example, is more present in, say, "barriers", "bulges" and "bursting" words than other sounds. There are some cases in which a combination of phonemes carry a meaning, rather than a single one (mp for example would make the action more forceful, like in 'step' X 'stamp'). But it would be much more complicated if we think of these double ones. Gnomish would probably use a combination of artificial Clustering
and natural Iconism.

"Clustering is language dependent, although closely related languages will have similar clustering relationships."
"It is suggested by Magnus that this kind of iconism is universal across languages."

Hm, interesting. We'll keep that in mind then!

I find this GitP conworlding project interesting. However, I won't be saying much since I'm trying to build my own world right now.

Anyways, anyone looked at this?

I have, actually. It's pretty good for people who don't really know how to conlang.