Potpourri Creation Contest Chat Thread

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Well, I don't think I can offer you a PEACH, Dice, cuz I don't know the classes these are substitution levels for. Sorry.

...you're not familiar with the monk, ninja, samurai, and shugenja? Or is it just that it's not clear which classes these are for? I'd hoped the little paragraph blurb for each one would make that clear enough.

[DragoonWraith]

Ack, you caught me. I'd just skimmed and saw Mystic, Shinobi, and er, the third one. OK, given that they're Monk, Ninja, Samurai, and Shugenja, I can look into it.

Of course... I really detest each of those classes, with the possible exception of the Shugenja (whose only real fault is the lack of splatbook support, and a bit of Healer-syndrome with the Water path), because they're hideously poorly designed - and at the same time I don't like ACFs or PrCs that are stealth rebalancers. Of course, you more-or-less won me over with the Proclaimer of Victory, so I'll have to give these a look. I'd love for them to actually work, of course.

EDIT: I have CWar and could judge the CWar Samurai, but this seems to be the OA version? Haven't read it yet (again...), but I see reference to Iaijutso... well, we'll see. If it is the OA Samurai, I can't help you.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Ack, you caught me. I'd just skimmed and saw Mystic, Shinobi, and er, the third one. OK, given that they're Monk, Ninja, Samurai, and Shugenja, I can look into it.

I'll stick the class names at the end to prevent that from happening again.

Of course... I really detest each of those classes, with the possible exception of the Shugenja (whose only real fault is the lack of splatbook support, and a bit of Healer-syndrome with the Water path), because they're hideously poorly designed

You and me both; if I hadn't been paging through OA for kicks and giggles I wouldn't have touched them either, and I almost couldn't make myself look at the samurai abilities.

- and at the same time I don't like ACFs or PrCs that are stealth rebalancers. Of course, you more-or-less won me over with the Proclaimer of Victory, so I'll have to give these a look. I'd love for them to actually work, of course.

Honestly, it's less of a real attempt to rebalance them than it is an excuse to give some really good and flashy blood-type abilities (I feel I should make a joke involving blood types and O/A here...) because it won't really matter if it powers them up some. Something that might shoot a swordsage up a tier won't do much for a monk, so there's a bit more leeway for feature design there.

And thanks again for the PoV praise; hope you like these as well.

EDIT: I have CWar and could judge the CWar Samurai, but this seems to be the OA version? Haven't read it yet (again...), but I see reference to Iaijutso... well, we'll see. If it is the OA Samurai, I can't help you.

Nope, it's the CW one. They just get an ability called Iaijutsu master that gives them free Quick Draw with katana and wakizashi. No relation to Iaijutsu Focus or the Iaijutsu Master PrC.

[DragoonWraith]

OK, that all sounds fine. Here's the Shugenja one, but that's as far as I'm getting tonight:

Disciples of the Sanguine Way - Pair O' Dice Lost
Well, interesting. Not a huge fan of the concept of blood magic in general, but then again once upon a time fey didn't interest me much either, hehe.

Mystic of the Pulsing Veins
I like this intro a lot better than the intro to the Sanguine Way itself, though the fact that I like the Shugenja better probably has something to do with that. Then again, Wood and Metal are both Wu Jen disciplines, and I kind of liked how the Shugenja used the western elements and the Wu Jen used the eastern ones. *shrug* All minor. Anyway, sounds good.

HD, Skills - Higher HD probably makes sense for a class dealing with blood, especially since I suspect they'll be damaging themselves... Autohypnosis... yeah, that also makes sense, I'm for that.

Blood Focus - Sooo... effectively, you're dual-specializing. Well, the 50% of your spells known being from your specialized element restriction is gone, since you have no elements that are neither specialized nor banned... Losing both Earth and Air seems a bit rough. That seems to hurt more than it helps.

Order of Pulsing Veins Spells - Blood Wind as a cantrip? Wow. The local Totemist is going to love you... Anyway, Puppeteer seems a bit strange, and I notice Blood Sirocco is missing, though I have no idea if the spell is any good and worth learning... Eh, whatever. I basically can't claim to know enough about these spells to really judge things.

Sense Blood - Interesting. I can't say I'd make this trade, though; you have so few spells as it is... Though I guess it does mean you'll pretty much never be ambushed if you're paying attention, which is rather nice. Yeah, I guess it's worth it.

Maho Component - Uhh... having a 750+ section seems dangerous to me. Sure, a potentially DC 42 Concentration check is problematic, but the fact that it doesn't scale means that True Resurrection hurts no more than Raise Dead. Not sure about that one. On the other hand, you're giving up another spell... ouch.


Anyway, I'll look at the rest tomorrow; I'm going to bed.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Then again, Wood and Metal are both Wu Jen disciplines, and I kind of liked how the Shugenja used the western elements and the Wu Jen used the eastern ones.

Hence why orders teaching shugenja to use wood or metal would be few and far between.

Blood Focus - Sooo... effectively, you're dual-specializing. Well, the 50% of your spells known being from your specialized element restriction is gone, since you have no elements that are neither specialized nor banned... Losing both Earth and Air seems a bit rough. That seems to hurt more than it helps.

Keep in mind that there are spells of no element, so those would still fall in the non-specialized slots. I figured this wouldn't be as bad as it seems, since chances are you'd only be focusing on 1 or 2 elements anyway due to the division in spells known, but if it really seems to be too much of a drawback I can change it.

Hmm...would it make more sense to let them specialize in either water or fire and ban the others (ensuring more of a 50/50 element split) and then give a separate benefit to make up for the lost elements?

Order of Pulsing Veins Spells - Blood Wind as a cantrip? Wow. The local Totemist is going to love you... Anyway, Puppeteer seems a bit strange, and I notice Blood Sirocco is missing, though I have no idea if the spell is any good and worth learning... Eh, whatever. I basically can't claim to know enough about these spells to really judge things.

Puppeteer is there to represent controlling your opponent's movements via moving their blood (if you've seen the Avatar series, think Bloodbending). I considered blood sirocco, but it's just minor dessication damage. If you're not familiar with those spells, that's fine, someone else can eyeball those.

Maho Component - Uhh... having a 750+ section seems dangerous to me. Sure, a potentially DC 42 Concentration check is problematic, but the fact that it doesn't scale means that True Resurrection hurts no more than Raise Dead. Not sure about that one. On the other hand, you're giving up another spell... ouch.

That's copied verbatim from the OA blood magic class, so if it's good enough for WotC.... I figured the additional spell slot and spell known would be enough of a balancing factor, and from your reaction it seems I wasn't too far off.

Anyway, I'll look at the rest tomorrow; I'm going to bed.

Thanks much. Your critique is always appreciated.

[zagan]

DragoonWraith going back to your Cabal warlock I've just found in another thread a feat from dragonmag 355 that can give two claw attack each dealing full eldritch blast damage + unarmed damage, I though you might find it interesting.

Anyway on to Peaching PairO'Dice Lost works,

The blood theme is a very nice idea and you use class with little support so that's cool too.

Mystic of the Pulsing Veins

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Nice fluff.

HD: Bigger than normal but it's need.

Skills: Autohypnosis fit.

Blood focus: Very interesting, double specialization but double loss I think it's fair. Plus you gain spell focus for both.

-The Order of the Pulsing Veins spells:

0—blood wind: Thematic but as a 0 level spell it seem strong and could be useless if the party doesn't have anyone with natural attack (with Int 4 or more). As an alternative there's Discern Bloodline in RoD it's also first level but not overpowered at 0
1—blood frenzy:The name fit but it doesn't seem that great, again its usefull only if you have a barbarian in the party. I recommand Blade of blood from the PHB 2
2—puppeteer: This one I like.
3—burning blood: Very nice particulary one level early but it fit to well to change
4—bloodstar: Also very good, Blood of the Martyr from BoED could also work.
5—thalassemia: Okay fit with the blood theme and the water speciality, as an alternative you could go with Gelid blood from frostburn, it's not direct damage but inflict some nice penality, but both work.
6—parboil: Direct damage again, while the fluff mentionned blood and it's a fire spell I'm not sure it's the best one to use, but blood sirroco is not that great so let's go with that.
7—avasculate: Okay, cool Blood to Water (SpC) could also work.
8—extract blood elemental: Very cool, but it's normaly a 6 level spell so perhaps you could use Avasculate mass at 8 and this one at 7 ?
9—internal fire: Yeah, okay not much choice there. Red Tide (Spc) but it's only 8th level normaly.

Sense Blood: Yes, could be very usefull.

Maho Component: Cool, you might want to precise that DR and other ability don't prevent the hp loss.

Conclusions: Nice work on an underused class.

Shinobi of the Thousand Cuts:

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HD: d8 instead of d6 good.

Skills: Make sense seing the fluff.

Bloodletting Strike: Very nice ability, just one thing you probably mean that the bleeding damage take effect the round after the attack but it's not clearly stat (or I miss it)

Bloodseeking Poison: You need to specify injury or contact poison otherwise with that wording any poison could be used and the +4 to the poison DC is strong. Raising the DC of any poison is really hard a +4 just like that is a big deal +2 could probably be better.

Flowing Ki: Interesting mechanic for the ninja that desesperatily need more ki and your wording mean that you must take the damage and heal it afterward.

Conclusions: Interesting addition to the ninja.

Warrior of the Bloodless Daisho

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Okay, the ability will need to be impressive to bring the class up.

Hd: Good again.

Skills: More skill point and two more skill, okay even if the more skill point aren't really justified it's not a big deal.

Bloodcurdling Smite: Way more powerfull than normal and having the bonus damage depending on skill rank is original. Normaly I would say that the blinded or deafened effect is a little too much but it's a samurai so.

Shogun of Fear: Bonus feat okay, source could be nice (CW yes but still)

Disembowel: Wow, very very nice.

Conclusions: You don't lose anything by taking this sub level and the ability are good but seing what the base is I won't complain.

Grandmaster of the Crimson Path

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HD: Same as the other

Still the Beating Heart: Very nice, not too strong not too weak. The only thing that bother me is that you gain it at 3rd while the class feature that replace it is gained at 7th, you should lose still mind instead even if it's more thematic.

Ride the Crimson River: A variant of the blood magus capstone at ECL 9 instead of ECL 15, it's a move action instead of standard far less distance and less damage plus the creature are flat-footed. While the flavor is awesome that's a little much even for a monk and again it replace something that's gain later.

Mingle the Lifeblood: I love this one, the flavor is great the mechanic is interesting and the effect is useful. Not complaint on this one.

Conclusions: You might want to work on the first two ability particulary the second one.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

0—blood wind: Thematic but as a 0 level spell it seem strong and could be useless if the party doesn't have anyone with natural attack (with Int 4 or more). As an alternative there's Discern Bloodline in RoD it's also first level but not overpowered at 0
1—blood frenzy:The name fit but it doesn't seem that great, again its usefull only if you have a barbarian in the party. I recommand Blade of blood from the PHB 2

I knew I'd regret lending out my PHBs and Races books; I didn't even think to check them for spells. Thanks for the suggestions.

8—extract blood elemental: Very cool, but it's normaly a 6 level spell so perhaps you could use Avasculate mass at 8 and this one at 7 ?

I bumped it up two levels because blood elementals are better than basic water elementals, and though they're only Medium there can be more of them at once, which is an advantage. If you really think it's not worth it, though, I can bring it down.

Maho Component: Cool, you might want to precise that DR and other ability don't prevent the hp loss.

Point.

Bloodletting Strike: Very nice ability, just one thing you probably mean that the bleeding damage take effect the round after the attack but it's not clearly stat (or I miss it)

"Each round thereafter" is supposed to mean "every round starting the next round," but I'll clarify that.

Bloodseeking Poison: You need to specify injury or contact poison otherwise with that wording any poison could be used and the +4 to the poison DC is strong. Raising the DC of any poison is really hard a +4 just like that is a big deal +2 could probably be better.

Well, I thought it was clear that it had to be injury or contact poison, since it's on your weapon...but I guess I can see people trying to stick an ingested poison on there. I'll change that.

On the poison DC, yes it's hard to raise the DCs, but (A) there are enough feats and items out there that you can get much better than +4 with one or two of them and (B) without such a boost poisons really aren't cost-effective, and I'm trying to give an incentive to use poison more with this feature.

Flowing Ki: Interesting mechanic for the ninja that desesperatily need more ki and your wording mean that you must take the damage and heal it afterward.

Yep. Also note that it's Con burn, meaning no magical healing. I wanted to give the ninja some more uses per day, but not to the extent that a wand of restoration lets him use abilities at will.

Bloodcurdling Smite: Way more powerfull than normal and having the bonus damage depending on skill rank is original. Normaly I would say that the blinded or deafened effect is a little too much but it's a samurai so.

Blindness/deafness is a 2nd level spell that you get at 3rd level that causes permanent blindness or deafness, caster's choice. Bloodcurdling Smite is a feature that you get at 3rd level that causes permanent blindness or deafness, determined randomly. Plus the spell can be prepared multiple times per day to start with where the Smite is only 1/day.

Still the Beating Heart: Very nice, not too strong not too weak. The only thing that bother me is that you gain it at 3rd while the class feature that replace it is gained at 7th, you should lose still mind instead even if it's more thematic.

Whoops. It should be at the level you get Wholeness of Body; if something in there says 3rd, it's a copy-paste error from one of the others. I'll fix that.

Ride the Crimson River: A variant of the blood magus capstone at ECL 9 instead of ECL 15, it's a move action instead of standard far less distance and less damage plus the creature are flat-footed. While the flavor is awesome that's a little much even for a monk and again it replace something that's gain later.

[...]

Conclusions: You might want to work on the first two ability particulary the second one.

Looks like I forgot to change the level on this one too. It should be at the same level as Abundant Step, so level 12.

I really want to keep this one in there, since thinking "You know, 10 levels of Blood Magus is too much for such a limited Bloodwalk, but that would be really cool on a monk or ninja" was what started me on this theme. I'd have thought the shorter distance and LoS requirement would tone it down sufficiently; you can't teleport through barriers or even total concealment with it, and with the monk's speed being 70 feet at that level, I'd say teleporting 100 feet and flat-footing your opponent is about on par with taking one of the various abilities granting an extra move action, as it's a bit worse than using the action to move again and a bit better than using it to feint an opponent. So it's basically Improved Feint + Travel Devotion plus a bit more, which I think is okay for a 12th-level class feature.

Thanks for the PEACHes; I'll go make those changes now.

EDIT: Changes made.

[zagan]

I knew I'd regret lending out my PHBs and Races books; I didn't even think to check them for spells. Thanks for the suggestions.

Glad you like them.

I bumped it up two levels because blood elementals are better than basic water elementals, and though they're only Medium there can be more of them at once, which is an advantage. If you really think it's not worth it, though, I can bring it down.

Blodd elementale aren't stronger by that much and the size difference is a serious problem because one big creature is often better than multiple small one. You could just calculate the stat of large and huge blood elementale and put it in a spoiler that could bring it 8 level (barely)

"Each round thereafter" is supposed to mean "every round starting the next round," but I'll clarify that.

That's what I understand but clarity is always appreciate.

Well, I thought it was clear that it had to be injury or contact poison, since it's on your weapon...but I guess I can see people trying to stick an ingested poison on there. I'll change that.

Yeah it's silly but some people are like that.

On the poison DC, yes it's hard to raise the DCs, but (A) there are enough feats and items out there that you can get much better than +4 with one or two of them and (B) without such a boost poisons really aren't cost-effective, and I'm trying to give an incentive to use poison more with this feature.

There's not that many way to do it, most feat give a +2 and the only item I could find is the assasination special property for a max of +5. Still your right in that it's not cost effective.

Blindness/deafness is a 2nd level spell that you get at 3rd level that causes permanent blindness or deafness, caster's choice. Bloodcurdling Smite is a feature that you get at 3rd level that causes permanent blindness or deafness, determined randomly. Plus the spell can be prepared multiple times per day to start with where the Smite is only 1/day.

That's true

Whoops. It should be at the level you get Wholeness of Body; if something in there says 3rd, it's a copy-paste error from one of the others. I'll fix that.

Okay.

Looks like I forgot to change the level on this one too. It should be at the same level as Abundant Step, so level 12.

I really want to keep this one in there, since thinking "You know, 10 levels of Blood Magus is too much for such a limited Bloodwalk, but that would be really cool on a monk or ninja" was what started me on this theme. I'd have thought the shorter distance and LoS requirement would tone it down sufficiently; you can't teleport through barriers or even total concealment with it, and with the monk's speed being 70 feet at that level, I'd say teleporting 100 feet and flat-footing your opponent is about on par with taking one of the various abilities granting an extra move action, as it's a bit worse than using the action to move again and a bit better than using it to feint an opponent. So it's basically Improved Feint + Travel Devotion plus a bit more, which I think is okay for a 12th-level class feature.

At 12th level with the limitation its alright.

Thanks for the PEACHes; I'll go make those changes now.

Glad to help.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Blodd elementale aren't stronger by that much and the size difference is a serious problem because one big creature is often better than multiple small one. You could just calculate the stat of large and huge blood elementale and put it in a spoiler that could bring it 8 level (barely)

I suppose you're right. I'll swap the levels around.

[PId6]

Okay, I finished swordsage and updated warblade, removing the loss of White Raven but making changed maneuvers only work with ranged attacks. Managed to cross the upper character limit by 5000 characters, so had to make a new post for swordsage (hence the repost to keep them together).

Would anyone mind reading over the swordsage rules to see if they make sense? I'm very conflicted over them, since they came out much wordier than I originally intended and I'm still not sure if it's even understandable to anyone else. If it's too convoluted, I may remove swordsage entirely or come up with something else.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Would anyone mind reading over the swordsage rules to see if they make sense? I'm very conflicted over them, since they came out much wordier than I originally intended and I'm still not sure if it's even understandable to anyone else. If it's too convoluted, I may remove swordsage entirely or come up with something else.

Looks clear enough to me. The only thing I'd clarify would be the issue of what "directly after readying maneuvers" means--is it in the same round? Does it require an action?

[PId6]

I looked over Sanguine Way sub levels. Most of it looked great and were nice additions on underwhelming classes. A few specific comments:

You should put the (Ex) tag on most of the abilities, especially the ones that require activation. Abilities not designated as (Ex), (Sp), or (Su) default to natural abilities, which might not be what you're going for.

Maho Component: I'm worried that it's a bit too good. "Free" spells that normally require material components can be quite broken, but I'm not familiar enough with the shugenja list to be sure.

Bloodletting Strike: Would be nice to have a clearer indication of when the damage is dealt. Something like "every round at the start of your turn" would work.

Disembowel: Wow, this is incredibly powerful. It's pretty much a 3-5/day instant-kill ability. On anything else, I'd be tempted to call it too good, but on CW samurai that's not so clear. Reminds me of the Conjunctive Gate utterance. If a PC has this, BBEGs everywhere had better beware.

Ride the Crimson River: This would be a lot more useful if the monk can actually Flurry with a standard action. Perhaps increase the damage dealt a bit or cause some bleeding with the entrance/exit so that it's better for more than just movement?

Mingle the Lifeblood: The best use I can think of for this is to link up with your entire party to sense their location and status at all times, though the damage can be annoying when using it on allies. Maybe allow a variable amount of damage of the monk's choice so that he can choose to make it more or less damaging?

Looks clear enough to me. The only thing I'd clarify would be the issue of what "directly after readying maneuvers" means--is it in the same round? Does it require an action?

Thanks. Glad it makes sense to somebody else. It's meant to be immediately afterward and requires no action; I've added a line to clarify. The "after readying maneuvers" part was mostly because it's the best workaround I can find to make it do what I want without making the language even more complicated.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

You should put the (Ex) tag on most of the abilities, especially the ones that require activation. Abilities not designated as (Ex), (Sp), or (Su) default to natural abilities, which might not be what you're going for.

Will do.

Maho Component: I'm worried that it's a bit too good. "Free" spells that normally require material components can be quite broken, but I'm not familiar enough with the shugenja list to be sure.

As mentioned before, this already exists in a Rokugan PrC and nobody seems to think that's OMGWTF powerful, so this shouldn't be too bad. Plus, the shugenja list isn't the best around--they don't get any of the good blasting spells that would make this good for metamagic abuse, and the only spell they have that would benefit from cost reduction is true resurrection at 18th level.

Bloodletting Strike: Would be nice to have a clearer indication of when the damage is dealt. Something like "every round at the start of your turn" would work.

Bleeding damage is kinda vague by the rules, as none of the other such abilities specify a time. I guess beginning of the ninja's turn works as well as anything else.

Disembowel: Wow, this is incredibly powerful. It's pretty much a 3-5/day instant-kill ability. On anything else, I'd be tempted to call it too good, but on CW samurai that's not so clear. Reminds me of the Conjunctive Gate utterance. If a PC has this, BBEGs everywhere had better beware.

Yeah, it's pretty good, but a 15th-level samurai doesn't really have the capability to cheese out the Fort save too much; even using a Smite with this, that's 1d10+18+Str damage when you first get it, and assuming around a 22 Str, a DC of 25-34 shouldn't be too unmanageable. I can decrease the uses per day down if you think it's too much.

Ride the Crimson River: This would be a lot more useful if the monk can actually Flurry with a standard action. Perhaps increase the damage dealt a bit or cause some bleeding with the entrance/exit so that it's better for more than just movement?

Well, it was meant to be mostly for movement, as it's replacing Abundant Step, a purely-movement ability; the flat-footing and damage are just minor perks.

Mingle the Lifeblood: The best use I can think of for this is to link up with your entire party to sense their location and status at all times, though the damage can be annoying when using it on allies. Maybe allow a variable amount of damage of the monk's choice so that he can choose to make it more or less damaging?

I hadn't thought of that, actually; it was meant to be more useful in tracking down an elusive BBEG type, but I think I'll make that change.

[PId6]

Yeah, it's pretty good, but a 15th-level samurai doesn't really have the capability to cheese out the Fort save too much; even using a Smite with this, that's 1d10+18+Str damage when you first get it, and assuming around a 22 Str, a DC of 25-34 shouldn't be too unmanageable. I can decrease the uses per day down if you think it's too much.

Don't forget that coup-de-grace auto-hits, which means you can Power Attack for massive damage, not to mention it auto-crits as well for scythe-wielding pain. Even a basic 1d10+18+Str becomes around DC 68 with a simple x2 crit. If the auto-hit/auto-crit wasn't intended, definitely specify that.

Lowering uses per day doesn't really affect much, since you only need one to kill the BBEG. Lowering it just makes it less useful on an everyday basis against mooks. If it's not meant to automatically hit and crit though, the limitations are probably enough to balance it. You will have to start out next to them, you have to actually hit, and they might not automatically die even if you do, so it shouldn't cause too many problems. By current rules though, it's death upon pretty much anyone guaranteed.

Well, it was meant to be mostly for movement, as it's replacing Abundant Step, a purely-movement ability; the flat-footing and damage are just minor perks.

I'm just not sure when I might actually want to use it. It doesn't work in Solid Fogs or locked rooms thanks to the LoS requirement. It requires someone next to you, so it could be helpful if the entire party is trapped in an open Forcecage or something, but that's the extent of it that I can see. Monks have high enough movement speed already that you shouldn't have any trouble getting close to an enemy, especially if you have flight (and at that level, you should). I guess you can use it to get next to some kind of AoO tripper or Stand Still user, but you'll only get one hit in, so it's not going to help that much.

Still much better than Abundant Step though.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Don't forget that coup-de-grace auto-hits, which means you can Power Attack for massive damage, not to mention it auto-crits as well for scythe-wielding pain. Even a basic 1d10+18+Str becomes around DC 68 with a simple x2 crit. If the auto-hit/auto-crit wasn't intended, definitely specify that.

I already did; it only resolves as a CDG if you hit, you don't get the auto-hit or the auto-crit. I was probably editing my post when you were writing yours.

I'm just not sure when I might actually want to use it. It doesn't work in Solid Fogs or locked rooms thanks to the LoS requirement. It requires someone next to you, so it could be helpful if the entire party is trapped in an open Forcecage or something, but that's the extent of it that I can see. Monks have high enough movement speed already that you shouldn't have any trouble getting close to an enemy, especially if you have flight (and at that level, you should). I guess you can use it to get next to some kind of AoO tripper or Stand Still user, but you'll only get one hit in, so it's not going to help that much.

Still much better than Abundant Step though.

The bolded part is the most important part () but it isn't quite as useless as it would seem. The main goals for this ability are the following:

• Give the monk more mobility options than just higher speed. He might not be able to fly at his full land speed, enemies might be behind bars, etc.
• Look cool. Can't forget that, can we?
• Give the monk a way to deal with tank types and casters a bit more easily. This way they can get through a lockdown build's defenses, as you mentioned, and possibly avoid triggering contingencies and moving through battlefield control effects, and since the destination creature is flat-footed until the end of the monk's next turn they actually can make a flurry against flat-footed AC.

Again, it's not supposed to be awesome, just a step up from Abundant Step with the perks I mentioned. One thing I had in there before that I took out because I thought it was too good was the ability to jump to someone whose name you know regardless of LoE or LoS, kind of like how the blood magus can carry around vials of blood to jump to a specific individual. Would that make this any more useful, do you think?

[PId6]

I already did; it only resolves as a CDG if you hit, you don't get the auto-hit or the auto-crit. I was probably editing my post when you were writing yours.

It's still a bit ambiguous whether you get a critical hit because of it. You should either make a direct statement to that effect or, alternatively, remove the "coup-de-grace" part entirely and just say the creature must make a DC 10 + damage dealt Fortitude save or die (this does not affect crit-immunes, etc).

But yeah, with the fix it should be fine.

One thing I had in there before that I took out because I thought it was too good was the ability to jump to someone whose name you know regardless of LoE or LoS, kind of like how the blood magus can carry around vials of blood to jump to a specific individual. Would that make this any more useful, do you think?

That'd be pretty cool. It'd mostly be used to jump to allies, and can be fun if used creatively. I like it. Yeah, I think you should add it. If you feel really mean, have it require the target's true name and need a Truespeak check to perform.

Better yet, how about having it allow you to jump to anyone affected by your Mingle the Lifeblood ability?

[PairO'Dice Lost]

It's still a bit ambiguous whether you get a critical hit because of it. You should either make a direct statement to that effect or, alternatively, remove the "coup-de-grace" part entirely and just say the creature must make a DC 10 + damage dealt Fortitude save or die (this does not affect crit-immunes, etc).

But yeah, with the fix it should be fine.

Will do.

That'd be pretty cool. It'd mostly be used to jump to allies, and can be fun if used creatively. I like it. Yeah, I think you should add it. If you feel really mean, have it require the target's true name and need a Truespeak check to perform.

Truespeak? I'm trying to make these classes suck less!

Better yet, how about having it allow you to jump to anyone affected by your Mingle the Lifeblood ability?

I was thinking along those lines as well. Perhaps I'll make it so you can jump to anyone whose name you know without LoS or LoE, and Mingle the Lifeblood lets you exceed the range limitations as well. "Ain't no mountain high enough, ain't no valley low enough...."

[zagan]

Peach for the desert Swordsage.

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Very nice image and the fluff is very interesting too.

Skills: You kept the typo of *6 at first level.
The new skill make perfect sense.

Dichotomy of Day and Night: You sacrifice one discipline and replace another completely but it seem fair.

Arcane Focus: This is a good idea and fit perfectly.

Force of the Tranquil Storm: This is also a good idea.

Stance of the Insatiable Wind: Nice this allow to compensate for the specialization a little.

Arcane Disciplines:
-The no component, xp or foci could in theory be abused but you probably chose spell for wich it didn't matter, so it's not a problem.
-Wisdom based arcane caster is a first but it's the stat used by standard swordsage and we don't want mad.
-The ability to use either of the base discipline or the arcane one as prerequisite is nice but probably useless because you can only gained maneuver from the discipline via feat.

Arcane sun:
-It's a little weird to see stance at every level (except nine) because for the discipline it's roughly every two level but okay.

-Haze of smoldering stone: Does knowing this spell also grant the fire resistance as normal ?
-Haste: as a stance is pretty strong but at the level it's porbably acceptable

Blackened Moon:

-I like the image of cloud of knives

Arcane Maneuvers and Requirements: The funny thing is that it allow you to enter the jade phoenix mage prc without multiclassing.

Metamagic: A nice list.

Conclusions: A very good work, ireally like it.

[PId6]

Peach for the desert Swordsage.

Thanks, much appreciated.

Skills: You kept the typo of *6 at first level.

Feature, not a bug. Swordsages are just too awesome for x4 at first level.

Stance of the Insatiable Wind: Nice this allow to compensate for the specialization a little.

I feel like this is really something that should have been with the swordsage to begin with. Desert Wind becomes pretty bad once enemies start getting fire resistance/immunity, so there really should have been a way to negate that in order for that discipline to be on par with the others. Likewise for Stone Dragon's "must stand on earth" requirement.

-The no component, xp or foci could in theory be abused but you probably chose spell for wich it didn't matter, so it's not a problem.

Yeah, I don't think there's a single spell on there that requires XP, and the only material components are either costless or relatively cheap.

-The ability to use either of the base discipline or the arcane one as prerequisite is nice but probably useless because you can only gained maneuver from the discipline via feat.

Well, if you started out as a desert warblade/crusader with some Desert Wind maneuvers and then multiclass into desert swordsage, it would matter. It's a minor thing, but could be important at times.

Arcane sun:
-It's a little weird to see stance at every level (except nine) because for the discipline it's roughly every two level but okay.

It's because the arcane disciplines are basically supposed to be almost twice as large, simply because you give up two disciplines to gain them. They likewise have more maneuvers at each level than traditional disciplines, and I added an extra 9th level maneuver to each.

-Haze of smoldering stone: Does knowing this spell also grant the fire resistance as normal ?

Thanks, I missed that. Added a note saying you don't gain the fire resistance.

Conclusions: A very good work, ireally like it.

Thank you.

[Hyooz]

Raptoran Druid is (finally) up!

I definitely have some concerns about the current level 15 ability, and for avian companion, I was debating between its current form and giving animal companions a fly speed. It seems really good... but shapeshift is a significant hit to the Druid's power, so I'm not sure. What do you folks think?

[PId6]

Raptorian Druid PEACH:

To take a Raptoran Druid substitution level, a character must be a Raptoran, and be about to take his 1st, 5th, or 13th level of Druid.

Typo (or copy/paste error). That should be 15th judging from table and ability text.

Raptorian Shapeshifting: Very interesting ability, quite fitting for a shapeshifting raptorian druid. I like it.

Avian Companion: I like it just the way it is. Rather than lose your AC entirely, you keep a more limited and thematic version of it. I definitely prefer this version to just giving all ACs wings, since shapeshift variant is balanced enough that buffing AC isn't necessary, and it would be a bit strange seeing flying riding dogs all over the place.

Natural Flight: Not sure if you intended it that way, but you can't take this level if you take Raptorian Shapeshifting, since they both replace Wild Shape. Unfortunately for this ability, you'd never want to actually give up Wild Shape for it, since you can change into bird forms with faster fly speeds anyway. If this is just a free ability on a shapeshifting druid who's already given up Wild Shape, then it's fine. But for a druid that actually still has Wild Shape (which is the currently only ones able to take it), it's a huge loss of power and isn't really usable in comparison. You should probably put a qualifier on it saying that you can take this even if you took the 1st substitution level.

Aerial Mastery: This is incredibly powerful. You should probably name what you lose for this ability (Timeless Body?). As is, though, it seems way too powerful to just have +3 worth of free metamagic on all of your spells. Perhaps limit it to [Air] spells, change it to a few times per day, and/or change it to a smaller boost, like free Enlarge/Silent/Still or a caster level boost.

[Hyooz]

Raptorian Druid PEACH:
Typo (or copy/paste error). That should be 15th judging from table and ability text.

D'oh. (Fixed)

Raptorian Shapeshifting: Very interesting ability, quite fitting for a shapeshifting raptorian druid. I like it.

Avian Companion: I like it just the way it is. Rather than lose your AC entirely, you keep a more limited and thematic version of it. I definitely prefer this version to just giving all ACs wings, since shapeshift variant is balanced enough that buffing AC isn't necessary, and it would be a bit strange seeing flying riding dogs all over the place.

Works for me. I do like it the way it is too, a friend of mine just presented the winged companion idea, and I started mulling it over.

Natural Flight: Not sure if you intended it that way, but you can't take this level if you take Raptorian Shapeshifting, since they both replace Wild Shape. Unfortunately for this ability, you'd never want to actually give up Wild Shape for it, since you can change into bird forms with faster fly speeds anyway. If this is just a free ability on a shapeshifting druid who's already given up Wild Shape, then it's fine. But for a druid that actually still has Wild Shape (which is the currently only ones able to take it), it's a huge loss of power and isn't really usable in comparison. You should probably put a qualifier on it saying that you can take this even if you took the 1st substitution level.

Will make a note of that. You're right about fly speeds not being worth Wildshape on their own, though. I put in that loss of Wildshape to prevent someone grabbing the sub level and keeping wildshape and a good natural flight ability... which wouldn't make that much of a difference, because you have Wildshape.

Aerial Mastery: This is incredibly powerful. You should probably name what you lose for this ability (Timeless Body?). As is, though, it seems way too powerful to just have +3 worth of free metamagic on all of your spells. Perhaps limit it to [Air] spells, change it to a few times per day, and/or change it to a smaller boost, like free Enlarge/Silent/Still or a caster level boost.

Yeah... believe it or not I was having issues coming up with ideas at the time, and knew I wanted something in this vein, so I laid this OP ability out as a sort of PEACH trap >.>

Thanks for the ideas. And yeah, Timeless Body.

[zagan]

PId6 has already PEACH the raptoran druid but I also want to do so if only for completness sake.

Raptoran druid:

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Raptoran Shapeshifting: This variant was always considered more balanced than normal wildshape so that's nice even if weaker.

Avian Companion: The wording is a little weird and I'm not sure it augmented the standard animal companion ability. You have less choice after all, perhaps counting as 1 level higher for the purpose of determining companion ability ?

Natural Flight: Nice but as was sais it can't replace wildshape because you've already lost it if you've taken the first level. Perhasp you can only take this sub level if you've taken the first one ?

Aerial Mastery: Nice in theory but very few druid spell with the air descriptor benefit from maximized. In fact i've only found two cloud spear and Flaywind burst (Sand p115) plus of course summoning spell when use to summon multiple lower level air elemental.
You might want to give more option

Conclusions: Not bad at all even if probably weaker than normal druid but seeing their base power it's not a bad thing really.

[DragoonWraith]

OK, I need to catch up here:
Druid Substitution Levels - Hyooz

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Raptoran Druid
Nice, I like the fluff.

Raptoran Shapeshifting - Uhhh.... PHB2's Shapeshift ACF replaced Wildshape and the Animal Companion, that's why you get it at 1st level. Giving up something you wouldn't have gotten until 5th for something at 1st seems like a bad plan. Hell, what's to stop them from just "not taking the 5th level substitution"? No DM would allow it, but I don't think substitution levels can do cross-level swaps like that. ACFs can, but this isn't an ACF...

I mean, as an ACF, this is pretty solid, though it's strictly better than Shapeshift and simultaneously costs less, which is kind of bizarre.

Avian Companion - So this gets limited, but not eliminated (as with Shapeshift). In general I don't really have a problem with this (except insofar as it affects Shapeshift), but I think calling it an "augmentation" is a little silly.

Natural Flight - How can you take this if you've already replaced Wildshape with Raptoran Shapeshifting? I mean, it's otherwise fine, but...

Aerial Mastery - Free +3 Metamagic in exchange for a useless fluff-feature? Uhh....


Conclusion - It's overpowered. And it's on a Druid, so that's a serious statement. Yes, Raptoran Shapeshifting is not as good (read: abusable) as Wildshape, but that doesn't really get any sympathy from me. The fluff works fine, but I don't like the way the class ends up.

To be continued! Heading out to dinner, but I figured I'd let Hyooz and Dice get an early glimpse. I do intend to get everyone.

EDIT: Continued below.

[Hyooz]

I have a decent idea for how I'm going to fix the Raptoran Druid. It'll probably involve moving the shapeshift to 5th level, adding another small feature to the first level substitution so that limiting your companion is worth it, and then slipping flight in a little later. I liked the idea of augmenting your casting while flying, but it doesn't work out well. It can't be a big boost, because any decent raptoran at that level will be flying almost always anyway, and anything too small becomes not worth it.

[PId6]

Aerial Mastery - Free +3 Metamagic in exchange for a useless fluff-feature? Uhh....

I disagree here. The number of [Air] spells a druid gets that can actually benefit from the ability is quite low. Here's a list:

• Cloud Spear - Very minor boost in damage.
• Downdraft (SpC) - Arguably affects fall damage. Not a big difference.
• Eye of the Hurricane (SpC) - Pushes back enemies a bit further. Meh.
• Favorable Wind (Wet) - Same as previous, only even more minor.
• Flaywind Burst (Hot) - Decent blasting and control. One of the best uses of the Maximize.
• Gust of Wind (PHB) - Same as Favorable Wind.
• Haboob (Hot) - Minor damage increase. Decent control spell.
• Storm Mote (Hot) - Very minor damage increase.
• Summon Nature's Ally (PHB) - Just for summoning multiple Air Elementals from a lower level list. Probably best and most common use of it.
• Whirlwind (PHB) - Minor damage increase.
• Whirlwind, Greater (SpC) - Like Whirlwind and Eye of the Hurricane.

So the ability boosts a few situational spells in a small way, makes Flaywind Burst a decent damage spell, and makes summoning air elementals more reliable. For +3 worth of free metamagic, that doesn't really do all that much. At 15th level, it's not going to affect druid power much, if at all, so this is not much better than a flavor ability as well. Seems reasonable to me, since Raptorian is far from an optimal druid race anyway.

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Shinobi of the Thousand Cuts
Intro is amusing, though I'd think that if you don't have at least some modicum of acrobatic ability, you cease to be a ninja, really... Anyway, it's fine.

It just says acrobatics aren't as effective as poisoning; the Disciples are of the opinion that this leads to this, so you're better off sneaking up, slicing someone up, and sneaking away.

Bloodletting Strike - Damage on this is going to ramp up rapidly; 3 damage is only slightly less than the average, and after two rounds you're well ahead of the curve. Of course, not a lot of fights last that long, particularly a single opponent. I say this is fine.

That's the whole point, really, with the whole "many cuts are better than one" theme. The idea here is that they trade spike damage now to pull ahead in damage later.

Flowing Ki - God knows the Ninja needs this, but 2 Con burn is a really harsh penalty. Not sure I'd want to lose the Will in favor of Fort, either. I was also kind of hoping for a way to create poison... Anyway, this is flavorful, and as an option it can't hurt the Ninja. Their Ki per day really is abysmal...

Can you think of another penalty that would be more fitting? Con loss is pretty solidly linked with blood loss, but if I make it damage or drain he can just pick up some restoration items and have as much ki as he wants.

Conclusion
I would have liked some way for the Ninja to create poison from his blood. It seems fitting and would help make Bloodseeking Poison and Poison Use more meaningful. Other than that, though, this is pretty good, for a Ninja...

I really wanted to put in an ability that lets him make poison, but I wasn't sure whether it would be too much on top of the other abilities. If you don't think it's too much, I can easily add something in there. Something like "spend a ki point and X HP to create Y poison," to link in with the blood and the ki-refreshing ability?

Hmm. Perhaps I could simply replace the DC increaser with the poison generation ability as part of Bloodseeking Poison, since a higher DC doesn't matter as much if you're not wasting so much money on poison that you really need it to work every time. I'll think about how to make that work.

Shogun of Fear - The mechanism here seems odd; why not make it Kiai Shout (or Greater Kiai Shout if he already has Kiai Shout), and Freezing the Lifeblood etc.? And the blatant improvement of the class makes this a gimme, but well, it's the CW Samurai...

Mostly because you can already get both Shout feats by this level easily, but if you don't get them you really should for the theme. Although, on second thought, the fact that you'll probably take them anyway means I can probably just give them Freezing the Lifeblood to start with. I'll do that.

Conclusion
There seems to be rather little here that is actually "bloodless", I'd say. Shogun of Fear, certainly, but it's the only one. Other than that, this definitely is more interesting than the CW Samurai (well... what wouldn't be...), and actually keeps the theme pretty well. I like it well enough, which is to say I still wouldn't touch it with a 10 ft. pole, but, well, ya know, CW Samurai. Your improvements are quite well done, considering what you had to work with.

Well, two of the three are more fear than bloodshed. The first one basically scares someone out of their wits and blinds/deafens them from the force of your shout; the bursting blood vessel fluff is there because...well, c'mon, you're blowing up people's eyes with your voice! The third one is definitely more direct-combat oriented, but it fits the samurai theme better than any of the other ideas I had.

Hit Die - Well, yeah, they need it. Just, it should be all Monks. It seems odd for these substitution levels to get d10s when all other Monk levels get d8s...

You'll notice each class gets a 1-step increase in HD from these sub levels because of the blood = life-force theme and because the monk, shugenja, and ninja end up lowering their HP to use some abilities.

Still the Beating Heart - This is totally awesome. Just saying.

Thanks for the additional critique.

EDIT: Whoops, looks like DW removed the critique I quoted. I'll leave this up here for now, so he can take my responses into consideration for his next post.

[DragoonWraith]

I have a decent idea for how I'm going to fix the Raptoran Druid. It'll probably involve moving the shapeshift to 5th level, adding another small feature to the first level substitution so that limiting your companion is worth it, and then slipping flight in a little later. I liked the idea of augmenting your casting while flying, but it doesn't work out well. It can't be a big boost, because any decent raptoran at that level will be flying almost always anyway, and anything too small becomes not worth it.

Sounds good, and as πd6 suggests, the Maximize thing might not be too strong.

I disagree here. The number of [Air] spells a druid gets that can actually benefit from the ability is quite low.

That's true; I didn't realize the list was so weak. Maybe it's not such a big deal after all.


Anyway, continuing my PEACH (cut and paste over to this post to keep it in one place):
Rokugan Blood Magic Substitution Levels - Pair O' Dice Lost

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Shinobi of the Thousand Cuts
Intro is amusing, though I'd think that if you don't have at least some modicum of acrobatic ability, you cease to be a ninja, really... Anyway, it's fine.

Skills - A slight upgrade, I think, as these are somewhat better skills than those lost, but only slightly.

Bloodletting Strike - Damage on this is going to ramp up rapidly; 3 damage is only slightly less than the average, and after two rounds you're well ahead of the curve. Of course, not a lot of fights last that long, particularly a single opponent. I say this is fine.

Bloodseeking Poison - Neat - or would be, if poison wasn't so problematic. Still, that's a problem that really can't be fixed with substitution levels, I think. The effect is nice and appreciated by the right sort of Ninja.

Flowing Ki - God knows the Ninja needs this, but 2 Con burn is a really harsh penalty. Not sure I'd want to lose the Will in favor of Fort, either. I was also kind of hoping for a way to create poison... Anyway, this is flavorful, and as an option it can't hurt the Ninja. Their Ki per day really is abysmal...


Conclusion
I would have liked some way for the Ninja to create poison from his blood. It seems fitting and would help make Bloodseeking Poison and Poison Use more meaningful. Other than that, though, this is pretty good, for a Ninja...



Warrior of the Bloodless Daisho
Heh, I like the intro.

Bloodcurdling Smite - Whoa, crazy. Still, I like it; it seems fitting and it's a much-needed improvement.

Shogun of Fear - The mechanism here seems odd; why not make it Kiai Shout (or Greater Kiai Shout if he already has Kiai Shout), and Freezing the Lifeblood etc.? And the blatant improvement of the class makes this a gimme, but well, it's the CW Samurai...

Disembowel - There are going to be a lot of situations where this save is going to happen only on a 20. It seems... well, by 15th, considering you need to be in melee, you need to full-attack, you need to hit... yeah, I'm not sure this is overpowered. Only because of how screwed up the game gets at 15th, though.


Conclusion
There seems to be rather little here that is actually "bloodless", I'd say. Shogun of Fear, certainly, but it's the only one. Other than that, this definitely is more interesting than the CW Samurai (well... what wouldn't be...), and actually keeps the theme pretty well. I like it well enough, which is to say I still wouldn't touch it with a 10 ft. pole, but, well, ya know, CW Samurai. Your improvements are quite well done, considering what you had to work with.



Grandmaster of the Crimson Path
Like the other intros, is amusing and well written. Not much else to be said.

Hit Die - Well, yeah, they need it. Just, it should be all Monks. It seems odd for these substitution levels to get d10s when all other Monk levels get d8s...

Still the Beating Heart - This is totally awesome. Just saying.

Ride the Crimson River - As the Blood Magus? Anyway, nifty feature. Maybe add a way to Flurry against the guy on the end? The names thing is cool, as is the thing with Mingle.

Mingle the Lifeblood - Whoa, this is really cool. I like this a lot!


Conclusion
Excellent work here, it fits the Monk, your theme, and it provides some fixes to Monk problems without really powering them up, just removing a lot of stupid daily (and... weekly...) limitations. Very, very well done, I think.

It just says acrobatics aren't as effective as poisoning; the Disciples are of the opinion that this leads to this, so you're better off sneaking up, slicing someone up, and sneaking away.

Fair enough.

That's the whole point, really, with the whole "many cuts are better than one" theme. The idea here is that they trade spike damage now to pull ahead in damage later.

Yeah, I was just thinking aloud (in type?) there. By the time I thought it through I came to agree with you.

Can you think of another penalty that would be more fitting? Con loss is pretty solidly linked with blood loss, but if I make it damage or drain he can just pick up some restoration items and have as much ki as he wants.

Honestly, I don't think the standard Hellfire Warlock "issues" are much of a problem here. I mean, it's the Ninja. Even infinite Ki doesn't let them do anything too game-breaking. And the standard solutions (Strongheart Vest, Naberius) wouldn't work nearly so well if it was 2 Con damage instead of 1.

I really wanted to put in an ability that lets him make poison, but I wasn't sure whether it would be too much on top of the other abilities. If you don't think it's too much, I can easily add something in there. Something like "spend a ki point and X HP to create Y poison," to link in with the blood and the ki-refreshing ability?

Hmm. Perhaps I could simply replace the DC increaser with the poison generation ability as part of Bloodseeking Poison, since a higher DC doesn't matter as much if you're not wasting so much money on poison that you really need it to work every time. I'll think about how to make that work.

I didn't have specific thoughts on the matter, I just thought it would be a good thing to include. A 4th ability would not be out of place, IMO, nor would replacing the increased DC thing. Up to you.

Mostly because you can already get both Shout feats by this level easily, but if you don't get them you really should for the theme. Although, on second thought, the fact that you'll probably take them anyway means I can probably just give them Freezing the Lifeblood to start with. I'll do that.

Yeah, that's kinda what I meant. I'm not even sure what Freezing the Lifeblood does, but it was really obvious that the correct way to do this was to have Kiai Shout and to get a free feat (Greater Kiai Shout) and a feat you couldn't have gotten at all otherwise (Freezing the Lifeblood that works with a Samurai).

Well, two of the three are more fear than bloodshed. The first one basically scares someone out of their wits and blinds/deafens them from the force of your shout; the bursting blood vessel fluff is there because...well, c'mon, you're blowing up people's eyes with your voice! The third one is definitely more direct-combat oriented, but it fits the samurai theme better than any of the other ideas I had.

Still a lot of bloodshed in Bloodcurdling Smite, though. You're rupturing their eyeballs or eardrums! Definitely not bloodless, even if it is fear-based.

You'll notice each class gets a 1-step increase in HD from these sub levels because of the blood = life-force theme and because the monk, shugenja, and ninja end up lowering their HP to use some abilities.

Do they? Yeah, that does make sense then.

Thanks for the additional critique.

EDIT: Whoops, looks like DW removed the critique I quoted. I'll leave this up here for now, so he can take my responses into consideration for his next post.

Yeah, it was incomplete so I cut and paste the whole thing to keep it in one place, not realizing you'd seen that bit. It's here now.

Desert Adepts - πd6

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Desert Swordsage
First, I love the image. Kudos on that, it's awesome.

Second, the quote is also awesome, but "blasphemy Pelor's name" should be "blaspheme Pelor's name".

Third, the intro is awesome again. Seriously, kudos on the writing here, it's really solid.

Skills - Fitting and appropriate.

Dichotomy of Night and Day - A. Whoo, cool word choice. Am a fan (as anyone who checked out my Mage of Ice and Fire might have guessed).

Anyway, awesome, awesome, awesome. Very excited about this.

Arcane Focus - Oh, nice! Very fitting!

Force of the Tranquil Storm - Ultimately, I feel like this isn't a great trade unless you're focused almost exclusively on the arcane arts - but that's what makes this great, really, it's a tough decision to make. Very nice.

Stance of the Insatiable Wind - Whoa, awesome! I love this, kudos, this is excellent.


Arcane Disciplines
The rules here are well written, thought out, and very well done. I'm really impressed; I can't think of anything to nit-pick here. Very, very well done.

Arcane Sun - I feel like you should have some of the dessication-damage spells from Sandstorm here, but otherwise this looks excellent. Very exciting.

Blackened Moon - First thing I notice is Greater Invisibility as a 4th level Boost, when it's already a 2nd level Boost of Shadow Hand (Cloak of Deception). Other than that, it looks quite nice.

For the Sake of Requirements - Very well thought out, and I approve. The sheer variety of options this allows is awesome. I like it, a lot.

Metamagic - Interesting, I like it; I'd say it works. Makes sense and is well thought-out.

I only question why you go with this "swapping" thing - why not just allow them ... oh, cuz then there'd be no cost cuz they'd just ready everything as metamagic'd to the highest level possible. Kudos to you for thinking this through! Well done.


Conclusion
Oh man, I'd love to try this. This is really, really cool. You should definitely submit this to the Age of Warriors project after we're done.

Child Prodigy Substitution Levels - Felyndiira

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A very interesting idea here. I'm excited to see how it plays out.

Child of the Books
Should be "would deny" instead of "would denied", and probably "only a cipher in hand" (to decipher is a verb; the noun that is the code would be a cipher). Anyway, grammatical nitpicks aside, an excellent intro: well-written and illustrative.

Requirements - I believe there might be rules for children's stats somewhere... a -1 to all ability scores, perhaps? Something like that. Anyway, this is fine otherwise.

Skills - Haha, I like it! Maybe add something minor in exchange, something playful? Perform, maybe, or Jump?

Child Wizard - Uh... brutal? I'm not sure about this one; I mean, OK, it's fitting, but it seems like it should be covered in separate rules for child characters?

Innocence - Uhhh... wouldn't you expect them to, I dunno, outgrow this? Those are pretty hefty penalties, and they get worse...

Rapid Memory - I dunno if "Rapid" is the right term, and I think there's already an ACF for this, but anyway... eh, I can see it. Sort of how a child can learn a new language much more easily than an adult can.

Lore - Pretty neat, and I like it thematically. A good choice.

Imagination (Familiar) - Well, it eliminates the XP bomb problem of familiars, but I'd now be tempted to make a battle-familiar (Improved Familiar, Imbue Familiar with Spell-like Ability, Fortify Familiar, etc) that is suddenly immune to all damage and can cast spells. This might be easily abused.

Imagination (Projection) - In general, this is a great, thematic, and fitting ability. But the char op'er in me is terrified of what this does to the Killer Gnome... Ah, whatever. Shadowcraft Mage is broken anyway; worrying about making it more broken is a little silly. Might not even work as an SLA, now that I think about it. This gets a thumbs up.

If they're a generalist, though, how do they lose a specialist spell slot?

Imagination (Flexibility) - Same issue as with the Projection, in that generalists don't have specialist spell slots, but this is also quite good; I like it.

Imagination (Imitation) - Having d20 + 10 + blah is a bad idea; the 10 in most formulas is to represent taking ten because having an opposed roll slows down the game too much. While an opposed roll might be appropriate here, the DC is just too high here; make it 1d20 + CL + Will save bonus (the bonus bit is important, too, otherwise this would mean a Will save, as in 1d20+Will, so you'd get the 1d20 in there twice).

Anyway, the rest of it looks fine; I like the feature. What do you mean by "Divine abilities" though? Salient Divine Abilities? Divine Spells? The SLAs of a denizen of an Outer Plane?

Also, typical problem with respect to generalists and specialist spell slots.


Conclusion
I really like it, in general, but I think there are a few issues. One, the penalties off the bat are really harsh, and I don't think they need to be; "Innocence", in particular, is extremely problematic for a number of reasons, mostly to do with the in ability to ever get Bluff as a class skill (just... not a good plan). You should sort out the issues with the generalists and the specialist spell slots; then again, specialists are generally just better, so maybe letting them get those for just the cost of the bonus feats would be fine.

Basically, the way it is now, no one would ever take the first substitution level unless they planned to abuse the invincible Familiar thing, which would be bad. Rapid Memory is good, but you can just take Eidetic Spellcaster to get the same thing without all the rather harsh penalties here. The rest of the levels are great though.

I hope this helps!

[PairO'Dice Lost]

Ride the Crimson River - As the Blood Magus? Anyway, nifty feature. Maybe add a way to Flurry against the guy on the end? The names thing is cool, as is the thing with Mingle.

As I mentioned to...whoever last brought it up, the destination creature is flat-footed against the monk's attacks until the end of her next turn, so you're in a prime flurrying position already. I figured giving a flurry at the end of this would kind of be like shadow pounce, and teleportation+full attack was a bit too much of a power-up.

Very, very well done, I think.

Glad you like it! You input is highly valued, as always.

Did you have any comments on my comments on your comments () above, regarding an alternative to Con burn and a good balance point for the poison ability?

[DragoonWraith]

But Shadow Pounce is awesome! I think it would be a good thing.

Anyway, yes, my responses to you have been swordsage'd into my previous post.