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    Default My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    My Good aligned cleric was turned into a Vampire! I am a little unsure about what will happen to him and so is my DM.

    Here are my questions;

    1) Will his alignment change too evil?
    2) Will he loose the ability to cast Cure spells spontaniously?
    3) If he remains Good aligned wouldn't he just try and kill himself?

    Many thanks.

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Quote Originally Posted by Le-vante View Post
    My Good aligned cleric was turned into a Vampire! I am a little unsure about what will happen to him and so is my DM.

    Here are my questions;

    1) Will his alignment change too evil?
    2) Will he loose the ability to cast Cure spells spontaniously?
    3) If he remains Good aligned wouldn't he just try and kill himself?

    Many thanks.
    All depends on if you killed the Vampire that did it... and what your Deity thinks about you being a Vampire.

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    The vampire that did it is still very much alive. Also I'm playing Eberron (sorry I forgot to mention that) so technicaly there are no Gods..

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Quote Originally Posted by Le-vante View Post
    The vampire that did it is still very much alive. Also I'm playing Eberron (sorry I forgot to mention that) so technicaly there are no Gods..
    Then, as I understand it (Eberron might be different, but whatever), your character is a Vampire Thrall... controlled (at least partially) by the Vampire that made you.

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Nothing about the Vampire requires you to be evil, so you don't have to be. A vampire also never actually has to feed, so as long as you dedicate your unlife to wiping out undead and evil, you should be fine. If you gank your creator, you can become a Vampire Lord eventually, and they kick ass (though are most certainly Evil).
    Last edited by Flickerdart; 2010-05-03 at 11:43 PM.
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Quote Originally Posted by Le-vante View Post
    1) Will his alignment change too evil?
    This depends partly on how undead are treated in the setting (ask the DM), which is tied to what is the exact nature of the negative energy plane (NEP) which powers undead. If the NEP is just another plane filled with energy that just happens to be harmful to most normal life (not unlike the elemental plane of fire), then undead are not necessarily evil, and your cleric will likely retain his alignment.

    If on the other hand the NEP itself is evil, then all undead which draw from its power will be influenced by it, meaning your cleric should become evil... although the process may be a drawn out process of slow corruption rather than a sudden about face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le-vante View Post
    2) Will he loose the ability to cast Cure spells spontaniously?
    If his alignment doesn't change, and the character's diety doesn't disown the cleric outright, then no. The ability to spontaneously cast Cure spells is a gift from the diety rather than selected based on what cure/harms you. E.g. evil clerics cast inflict spells which are harmful to them if they are living, but heals them if they are undead.

    If his alignment changes and he somehow starts drawing power from an evil deity, then I would say yes, he stops spontaneously casting cure, and starts casting inflict.

    Edit: In the case of Eberron, replace "Ideals" with "Deity" and you get essentially the same thing. Your character will likely continue to spontaneous cure if he remains good, or spontaneous inflict when he becomes evil.

    Quote Originally Posted by Le-vante View Post
    3) If he remains Good aligned wouldn't he just try and kill himself?
    The big problem with vampires is that they need blood to survive. Most get by preying on other sentient species, but this isn't strictly necessary by RAW. In other words, your cleric could hunt animals for their blood and live (or unlive as the case may be) with a clean conscience.

    Also, there might be a cure for vampirism making suicide unnecessary.
    Last edited by JeminiZero; 2010-05-04 at 12:07 AM.
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    The first two are "no." The reasoning is that losing the only thing that makes you better than a monk is a punch-the-DM offense. Unless of course the two of you agree that the Cleric becomes Evil and begins worshiping a new (Evil) deity.

    Technically, though, if the Vampire that transformed you can't control you, but you have free will, you've pretty much got whatever alignment you would have if you weren't subject to supernatural compulsion.

    Depending on your deity, you might accept your transformation (i.e. if you were a follower of a Neutral or Good-aligned deity with things like the Moon or Death in his/her portfolio), or you might seek death and resurrection (especially if you were a Pelorite).

    Most nature, life, and solar deities have a stronger dislike of their worshipers remaining undead (solar deities disapprove of vampires especially and possibly specifically), and some death deities despise intelligent undead, but others use them as psychopomps. Most other portfolios are neutral towards the issue. Good deities are opposed to the "run on negative energy and the blood of mortals" bit, but generally recognize that an intelligent undead can be a powerful force for good.

    If you aren't needed as a band-aid box, you and your DM might consider switching your spontaneous casting to Inflict Wounds, but there's no RAW support for doing that.
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Well the monster manual does say that vampires always turn evil. So by the book, yes you do, and you lose all your cleric abilities unless you switch to an evil deity. Your GM will likely rule that this isn't an instantaneous thing, giving you time to work out a solution or a cure.

    But he should be doing something absolutely dire to you in exchange for that +8 level adjustment he just handed you, so expect (un)life to be rough.
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    There are rules in Libris Mortis for ignoring the vampire affliction. At the very least under the half-vampire template. But I think it mentions what happens to feeding undead that cannot/will not feed elsewhere in the book.

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    I was gonna say, even in Eberron, aren't vampires listed as ALWAYS Chaotic Evil?

    Or is this like true dragons from Monster Manual 3.5 to Draconomicon, where they turned from "ALWAYS this alignment" to "USUALLY this alignment"?
    Last edited by Ashram; 2010-05-04 at 12:37 AM.

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Even in the Monster Manual, "Always" an alignment is actual about 95%, there are always exceptions. Succubus Paladin, anyone?

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Right from the Monster Manual

    "Vampire Characters
    Vampires are always evil, which causes characters of certain
    classes to lose some class abilities, as noted in Chapter 3 of the
    Player ís Handbook. In addition, certain classes take additional
    penalties.

    Clerics: Vampire clerics lose their ability to turn undead but
    gain the ability to rebuke undead. This ability does not affect the
    vampireís controller or any other vampires that a master controls.
    A vampire cleric has access to two of the following domains:
    Chaos, Destruction, Evil, or Trickery.


    Sorcerers and Wizards: Vampire sorcerers and wizards retain
    their class abilities, but if a character has a familiar other than a rat
    or bat, the link between them is broken, and the familiar shuns its
    former companion. The character can summon another familiar,
    but it must be a rat or bat."

    It seems you turn evil, trade turn for rebuke, and lose your domains.

    In addition to being the eternal servant of the vampire who made you...
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Another option for feeding without being evil: have someone willing to be your food, then cast restoration on them afterward. It'll cost you, but you're an adventurer; 100 gp every once in a while won't hurt you much.

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Being a vampire cleric is a bummer. You're down to one good domain (Trickery), have a nice fat LA sitting on your spell progression, and the whole sunlight + needing to be invited indoors things.

    But hey, it beats the alternative...

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    If the vamp who did it is still alive, isn't this a moot point? It's hardly worthwhile playing a mind-controlled character.

    .. Well, I guess it's okay if the vampire doesn't micro manage. But even then it can be very annoying, especially when it comes to killing the vampire.
    Last edited by GoodbyeSoberDay; 2010-05-04 at 01:01 AM.
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    It's also now necessary to put ranks in Craft (Emo poetry), and hide (dignity)

    You're going to need a lot of D10s

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Quote Originally Posted by Le-vante View Post
    My Good aligned cleric was turned into a Vampire! I am a little unsure about what will happen to him and so is my DM.

    Here are my questions;

    1) Will his alignment change too evil?
    2) Will he loose the ability to cast Cure spells spontaniously?
    3) If he remains Good aligned wouldn't he just try and kill himself?

    Many thanks.
    Well, that kinda sucks.

    1) By core rules, yes, he will become evil when he arises. Depending on what level your cleric was, he will either rise as vampire spawn (read as: roll new character), or a true vampire (read as: roll new character, as your LA sucks). Likely you will lose your cleric magic and such due to drastic alignment change. Obviously, YMMV depending on your DM.
    2) I should hope so. And yeah, being undead would seem to not work with that, but evil clerics channel negative... so... I'd say depending on you losing cleric magic, you could still cast cure.
    3) That depends on if he's enslaved to his creator. Even if not, it's likely that he will find it troublesome to resolve his new condition with his old ethics. It's possible he could slide into being neutral and just feed on things he justifies as being food sources, such as evil creatures, criminals, and the like. Or he only feeds enough from one source to sate himself but not kill the victim.

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    GoodbyeSoberDay, if the master has exceeded his control limit he can still be free.

    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    Nothing about the Vampire requires you to be evil, so you don't have to be. A vampire also never actually has to feed, so as long as you dedicate your unlife to wiping out undead and evil, you should be fine. If you gank your creator, you can become a Vampire Lord eventually, and they kick ass (though are most certainly Evil).
    No actually a vampire does have to feed, and D&D doesn't follow the Twilight or other whiny )&)*)@ vampire books. Vampires are inherently evil the transformation makes them so.

    Now OP
    If I was DMing, You'd become an NPC and a new villain for the party to face. Leaving you with a new character. At least until the party found you slayed you and resurrected you.

    If you can maintain control of your character. Just catch the next sunrise and have your allies bring your ashes and the money necessary to a 13th level cleric to cast resurrection.
    Last edited by Lord Vukodlak; 2010-05-04 at 01:59 AM.

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vukodlak View Post
    GoodbyeSoberDay, if the master has exceeded his control limit he can still be free.
    Ah, true, perhaps we are dealing with the Shawn Kemp of vampires. (Hm, might be the wrong venue...)
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Well, fortunately, being in Eberron means you won't lose any of your divine abilities if you do change alignment. Still being a full caster gives you many options, no matter what the situation turns out to be.

    I agree with the idea that you need to ask your GM whether he interprets all undead as being evil, or if the fact that you can still consider right and wrong means you can be whatever alignment you want... Wait, it took me until now to remember this, but Eberron doesn't have the "Always this alignment" category at all.

    So, some vitally important things are covered just by the fact of being lucky about the setting you're in (be glad you're not in Ravenloft). Now you need to make sure you're not under the control of the vampire. I suggest seeing about casting Magic Circle Against Evil immediately, since it blocks mind control.

    Feeding... I'm not sure about the solution.

    Hah, I just thought of this: feed off your summons. Who cares what happens to summoned creatures?
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVid View Post
    I suggest seeing about casting Magic Circle Against Evil immediately, since it blocks mind control.
    Err, the spell lasts minutes the control lasts until freed or the masters death.
    Once the spell runs out the master is in command again.[who can also order him to resist any attempt to cast such a spell on him]
    I also don't think blocking spawn control was the intention of the spell as it speaks of stuff like caster level. But that's an arguable issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoVid View Post
    Hah, I just thought of this: feed off your summons. Who cares what happens to summoned creatures?
    When a summoned creature is killed or the spell ends it vanishes, as would any blood in his gut. Unless its reasonable to cut a chunk out of a summoned creature and eat it for sustenance as a regular living being.

    I mean really would create food and water really work if they had a duration before the food vanished from existence?

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    chop chop went the cleric's head... raise dead went the clerics friend... human again the cleric is.

    Resurrection makes difficult situations and grueling moral choices trivial.

    Being a vampire is a CRIPPLING affliction to any caster, as it gives you a +8 level adjustment. This means that your effective level for gaining XP is as if you are 8 levels higher then what you currently are...

    Vampires are "always evil" in DnD... always evil means a being is CREATED evil... when you are transformed into a vampire your alignment instant changes to evil.
    However, always evil in DnD does not mean ALWAYS... an always evil creature starts out as evil, always, but may change later on...

    that is, the process of vampiric transformation turns you evil, but you may turn good again later on. Look up the definition of the word always in regards to alignment in the monster manual

    also look up the vampire in the SRD:
    http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/vampire.htm

    Vampire Characters
    Vampires are always evil, which causes characters of certain classes to lose some class abilities. In addition, certain classes take additional penalties.

    Clerics
    Vampire clerics lose their ability to turn undead but gain the ability to rebuke undead. This ability does not affect the vampireís controller or any other vampires that a master controls. A vampire cleric has access to two of the following domains: Chaos, Destruction, Evil, or Trickery.

    Sorcerers and Wizards
    Vampire sorcerers and wizards retain their class abilities, but if a character has a familiar other than a rat or bat, the link between them is broken, and the familiar shuns its former companion. The character can summon another familiar, but it must be a rat or bat.
    that being said, you should be a "vampire spawn" not a vampire...
    Vampire spawn are undead creatures that come into being when vampires slay mortals. Like their creators, spawn remain bound to their coffins and to the soil of their graves. Vampire spawn appear much as they did in life, although their features are often hardened, with a predatory look.

    Vampire spawn speak Common.
    Frankly the whole thing is a mess and should strictly be a "ask your DM" sort of deal.
    Last edited by taltamir; 2010-05-04 at 02:55 AM.
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    In Eberron:
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    If you're thirsty, summon a freaking blood elemental.

    This is totally a good idea that cannot go wrong in the slightest.
    Last edited by TheMadLinguist; 2010-05-04 at 03:32 AM.

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vukodlak View Post
    the spell lasts minutes the control lasts until freed or the masters death.
    Once the spell runs out the master is in command again.[who can also order him to resist any attempt to cast such a spell on him]
    If the master vampire didn't think to give the order to not try breaking out of his control, that's his problem. Also, escaping his control for a few minutes is far from being of trivial use. For one thing, it could give the cleric the choice to not resist while his allies kill and resurrect him to get rid of the vampirism.
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Vukodlak View Post
    No actually a vampire does have to feed, and D&D doesn't follow the Twilight or other whiny )&)*)@ vampire books. Vampires are inherently evil the transformation makes them so.
    What's your source on this? As far as I can tell, there's no mechanical penalties for not drinking blood, and as undead, vampires explicitly don't need to eat. I think we may be applying fluff as if it were crunch here.
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Wonder if being a Vampire is worth it if the LA is ignored (ala Dry Lich/Walker or DN Lich)?

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Thankyou everyone for your replies. Some of you seem to be contradicting one another however (though this is probably down to my lack of info) so here is a bit of back ground as to what happened and other bits;

    Firstly we are playing Eberron so alignment is slightly diffrent to generic 3.5 (e.g they give is Your just al likely to find a Good Red Dragon as you are an evil one).

    Secondly the whole party (apart from the warforged) has been turned into true vampires. Which makes the "rest of party rescue" theme fail. Though I have asked my DM if I can create a new character with party members to libberate my current cleric from undeath since I'm affectively playing an NPC.

    From your replies I know have the following questions;

    1) Do vampires need to feed? Or is dnd as mature and as far away from twighlight as possible.

    2) Because I'm in the Eberron setting is it written in stone that upon creation I am Evil?

    Many thanks.

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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    I have a question (which might be of interest to the OP in case he dips into monk ;)) Do the Vampire's Slam attacks and unarmed attack damage stack?
    Because that would be really sweet...

    At any rate, no, with the proliferation of Daylighters, Cullens, Underworlders and the like it is really unfair to confine a Vampire to being "Evil" although I would force the character to spontaneous Inflict Wounds. healing seems to be connected with the ability to harness and channel the forces of life and regeneration, and is probably granted by deities of Life (not unlife). It just seems a bit awkward that a Vampire can lay on hands :)
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    Default Re: My Cleric was turned into a Vampire..

    Quote Originally Posted by Ossian View Post
    I have a question (which might be of interest to the OP in case he dips into monk ;)) Do the Vampire's Slam attacks and unarmed attack damage stack?
    No. Natural attacks and unarmed attacks are unrelated entities with no interaction (bar a feat or two).

    [Edit]: If the whole party (minus one) are effectively NPCs under the vampire's command, that's pretty much TPK. If you still have free will, you probably don't have to be evil in Eberron (which plays the alignments a bit differently than default) and even if you are, I seem to recall that clerics in Eberron can't fall, so nothing really changes with your spells (though how that interacts with vampire's monster entry I can't guess).
    Last edited by Greenish; 2010-05-04 at 04:15 AM.
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