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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Maybe, but I am unsure what sort of a role it is now.

    Maybe Sayaka is trusted more by the students.

    But why would anyone ask her about Shinigami/Hollows/Quincy/supernatural, when there are Hollows/Shinigami/Quincy who will teach them?

    What use is it for her to have a training place for them, when they have Shinigami/Hollows/Quincy/ who can instruct them in such skills?

    Certainly she may have a role at the very beginning. But after the other 'teacher' characters are introduced, there seems to be very little else.

    Maybe that is okay though. It would be selfish of me to ask for more 'spotlight' than such.

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    Last edited by Kasanip; 2010-05-06 at 09:24 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Keep in mind, many of the characters, like Kaito or Nakahiro, can't really get trained by Quincies/Shinigami/Hollows because their powers are so much different from more traditional spiritual beings.
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Off the top of my head, Michiko and Kaito would benefit as much or more from Sayaka's help, than any of the other mentors. Their abilities are not Shinigami, Hollow, or Quincy. They're not exactly like Sayaka's, but I'd say she'd still have a better shot of helping them.
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    You know, I've been trying to figure out just how and where I'd want to introduce and get Akemi into things. While I think she would make a good mentor character, I have no real connections for her at all. I also have no idea where and how she would have hid on earth.

    So I'm thinking, perhaps she made her way to the Shrine? It could be that she had to rely on them for aid (after all, she escaped right after a combat... it would be no stretch at all for her to have been injured), and while they may normally have that stance of remaining uninvolved, I don't think they'd deny aid to someone wounded who dragged themselves there.

    With that, Akemi would be in their debt, and probably in their presence for a while. They might establish more of a tie at that time, and it wouldn't seem off if it became a more long term thing.

    My thought is that this would eliminate your competition, partially, as instead of drawing attention away from the Shrine, Akemi could help draw attention to it and keep it there. Obviously, I'd want to have Akemi share such a position with Sayaka and the Shrine in general, rather than be the focus of it, so we'd need to tweak out specifics (but given Akemi's weakness in terms of actually accomplishing spiritual tasks, I think there is a definite opportunity there).

    I can see some areas where they might, or definitely would, clash, but still, it's a suggestion I'd like to put out there.
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2010-05-06 at 09:37 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Vael View Post
    You know, I've been trying to figure out just how and where I'd want to introduce and get Akemi into things. While I think she would make a good mentor character, I have no real connections for her at all. I also have no idea where and how she would have hid on earth.

    So I'm thinking, perhaps she made her way to the Shrine? It could be that she had to rely on them for aid (after all, she escaped right after a combat... it would be no stretch at all for her to have been injured), and while they may normally have that stance of remaining uninvolved, I don't think they'd deny aid to someone wounded who dragged themselves there.

    With that, Akemi would be in their debt, and probably in their presence for a while. They might establish more of a tie at that time, and it wouldn't seem off if it became a more long term thing.

    My thought is that this would eliminate your competition, partially, as instead of drawing attention away from the Shrine, Akemi could help draw attention to it and keep it there. Obviously, I'd want to have Akemi share such a position with Sayaka and the Shrine in general, rather than be the focus of it, so we'd need to tweak out specifics (but given Akemi's weakness in terms of actually accomplishing spiritual tasks, I think there is a definite opportunity there).

    I can see some areas where they might, or definitely would, clash, but still, it's a suggestion I'd like to put out there.
    It is an interesting idea I think. I like it a lot.

    However, the Shrine is supposed to be neutral, and taking care of a shinigami and letting one stay there would certainly make that a problem.

    I like the idea they helped her when she was wounded. Maybe in keeping in contact also they talk. But I think that she shouldn't stay there (like a resident) until maybe later (in game? perhaps persuading them in character). Certainly it would be more convenient, but there are also some things maybe she could do (if disguising as a human? It makes a question for me:
    Is Akemi like a 'gigai' ?)
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  6. - Top - End - #156
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    From another perspective competition is eliminated in the sense that Akemi largely steals the show by default at the shrine. Why talk to the spiritually adept girl and her father when you can talk to a real spirit that has hundreds of years of spirit world experience, some of the greatest combat skills of anyone in the entire setting and tons of knowledge of Soul Society that lives in the same building?

    Anyway, my character won't be forgetting yours Kasanip since he'd like to learn from someone who is his own age, shares his state of being as a human and is a friend.

    Also Shades, I saw what you did there with the hanging comment. It made me mentally groan because of the cheesiness.
    Last edited by nothingclever; 2010-05-06 at 10:39 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #157
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Last time Akemi saw a shinigami or quincy should be when they tried to kill her. So it is likey that she would try to keep a low profile and pretend to be just another shrine maiden.
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  8. - Top - End - #158
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Kasanip View Post
    It is an interesting idea I think. I like it a lot.

    However, the Shrine is supposed to be neutral, and taking care of a shinigami and letting one stay there would certainly make that a problem.

    I like the idea they helped her when she was wounded. Maybe in keeping in contact also they talk. But I think that she shouldn't stay there (like a resident) until maybe later (in game? perhaps persuading them in character). Certainly it would be more convenient, but there are also some things maybe she could do (if disguising as a human? It makes a question for me:
    Is Akemi like a 'gigai' ?)
    Yeah, I think it might fit better if she didn't necessarily stay with them anyway. Gives her a reason to be out and about, have her own interactions... but if they need her help, or if she could use theirs, it would be a good connection.

    Still, it might be more convenient at a later point if they solidified such a partnership. I don't see it being necessary early on, but once stuff starts coming down, they may both decide that it is better.

    As for your last question... I've been trying to figure that out myself, which is why I asked that question about Urahara much much earlier. He sort of has this bizarre duality of spiritual and physical nature, which I thought was fitting for exiled Shinigami.
    You'll notice that some of his allies have this duality to them as well.

    The biggest question though, if I decide to give her a gigai, is... where did she get it? And how does she get out of it when she needs to?


    Quote Originally Posted by nothingclever View Post
    From another perspective competition is eliminated in the sense that Akemi largely steals the show by default at the shrine.
    I already addressed and pointed out this concern.
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2010-05-06 at 10:56 AM.

  9. - Top - End - #159
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Vael View Post
    School teacher really doesn't translate to Plot Relevant Mentor Figure, in my mind. As a school teacher, they don't have to teach Kido, or help people against Hollows, or anything. Hell, knowing some of the teachers I had, they don't even have to teach.

    "Okay kids, now I'm going to go use my cell phone for half an hour. You... do that worksheet. Which I won't grade. Yeah."
    I... don't see why this is. Especially since Tani is kind of a Martial Arts expert, and he is teaching at the school because he needed some explanation for why he was in Phoenix Town.

    Not every character has to choose him as a Mentor, and Akemi is a better mentor for the vast majority of them (which still worries me...) but simply being a PE Teacher, and head of the Martial Arts clubs shouldn't disqualify him.

  10. - Top - End - #160
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Tackyhillbillu View Post
    I... don't see why this is. Especially since Tani is kind of a Martial Arts expert, and he is teaching at the school because he needed some explanation for why he was in Phoenix Town.

    Not every character has to choose him as a Mentor, and Akemi is a better mentor for the vast majority of them (which still worries me...) but simply being a PE Teacher, and head of the Martial Arts clubs shouldn't disqualify him.
    I never said that at all.

    I'm saying that being a teacher does not make you a Mentor Figure. Not that being a teacher makes it so you can't be a mentor figure.

    Draken had just pointed out "they're teachers" in a way that implied "they're mentor figures." I was saying "not necessarily" in response.

  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Vael View Post
    I never said that at all.

    I'm saying that being a teacher does not make you a Mentor Figure. Not that being a teacher makes it so you can't be a mentor figure.

    Draken had just pointed out "they're teachers" in a way that implied "they're mentor figures." I was saying "not necessarily" in response.
    Alright, apologies. Was trying to get what you were saying.

  12. - Top - End - #162
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Tackyhillbillu View Post
    Alright, apologies. Was trying to get what you were saying.
    No problem. I just got really worried that you interpreted it that way- I'm feeling pretty cautious about the whole scenario of Akemi being "yet another mentor figure," so I don't want to be stepping on the toes of others, let alone give the impression that I don't think they work altogether.

  13. - Top - End - #163
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Vael View Post
    No problem. I just got really worried that you interpreted it that way- I'm feeling pretty cautious about the whole scenario of Akemi being "yet another mentor figure," so I don't want to be stepping on the toes of others, let alone give the impression that I don't think they work altogether.
    I understand that. I can see most of the Mentor's working together. Akemi (and Aqua Man) worry me more, simply because as Shinigami they are so much more experienced and powerful then Sayaka, Tani and the other humans.

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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    In my opinion, training can only get you so far. After a certain point, you need talent and some other form of progression.
    For most Shinigami, this form of progression comes through spiritual power, which allows them to move quicker, take harder blows, and give harder blows.
    Akemi... doesn't have that. Honestly, while probably she is better than Ito at swordplay, I doubt it's going to be by a huge margin. After years of practice, how much more can you really learn?
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2010-05-06 at 11:07 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #165
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Vael View Post
    In my opinion, training can only get you so far. After a certain point, you need talent and some other form of progression.
    For most Shinigami, this form of progression comes through spiritual power, which allows them to move quicker, take harder blows, and give harder blows.
    Akemi... doesn't have that. Honestly, while probably she is better than Ito at swordplay, I doubt it's going to be by a huge margin. After 30 years of practice, how much more can you really learn?
    You can learn quite a bit, honestly. The largest factor limiting Human skill is the longer you practice something, the older you get. A 70 year old man is not the equal physically of a 30 year old.

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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Well personally, I don't picture the Shinigami as being all that elite in terms of skill. Or heck, even power in general. They got their butts handed to them by a random group of high school students, after all.

    The main thing the Shinigami have is spiritual power. That's always been what has boosted them so far above the normal populace.

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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Last time Akemi saw a shinigami or quincy should be when they tried to kill her. So it is likey that she would try to keep a low profile and pretend to be just another shrine maiden.
    Two shrine maidens at one shrine and they aren't sisters or twins? My mind is blown. It's like dividing by zero. Anime/manga have taught me such a thing is impossible and it's never lied to me before. They're always either the same age or the younger one is half the size of the other and really assertive while ironically the older one is shy and reserved. I'm going to try to rationalize this in my mind for a bit and hope I don't have an aneurysm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vael View Post
    They got their butts handed to them by a random group of high school students, after all.
    Oh come on. The kids in canon have the power of plot. Ichigo has amazing potential and Ishida's father is super strong making me think he's got plenty of potential too. Ishida also received training from his grandfather since he was a small child as KD mentioned. They also could've been fighting joke characters. Ichigo fights Renji and Ikkaku and has a much harder time than his friends despite being stronger than them. Clearly there are lazy shinigami and there are serious ones. Chad and Ishida run into the joke seated characters while Ichigo fights the tough ones. There's also the Hōgyoku tampering to justify their strength.
    Last edited by nothingclever; 2010-05-06 at 12:03 PM.

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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Vael View Post
    Well personally, I don't picture the Shinigami as being all that elite in terms of skill. Or heck, even power in general. They got their butts handed to them by a random group of high school students, after all.

    The main thing the Shinigami have is spiritual power. That's always been what has boosted them so far above the normal populace.
    A random group of high school students....most of whom were granted their powers by a Magic Wish Ball.

    Actually, in the Soul Society Arc....I'm pretty sure only Ishida and Ichigo had any wins. Orihime didn't ever fight, and Chad got stomped by Captain Grab Ass. Well, Chad might have taken a few guys down. But Chad also has at least some experience and skill, and likely took them by surprise (both in the "hey, somebody's fighting us!" and "he's not a Shinigami, what can he do?"). I mean, he's got super-strength in his arm and all that.

    But Ishida's been training his whole life, and is basically set up as a Quincy Prodigy.

    Ichigo...well, that goes without saying.

    Certainly your average unseated wouldn't be "Elite". But someone with Bankai?

    Besides, with their lifespans, any Shinigami who actually tries could get stupidly skilled. I mean, they could study multiple styles to their fullest extent, then combine those skillsets.
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Kido: Iwamori Higure (strawberryman). Also, school teacher.
    Who?

    My former-KC member school teacher is Hamasaki Hibiki. No idea where you got that name.
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightDisciple View Post
    Besides, with their lifespans, any Shinigami who actually tries could get stupidly skilled. I mean, they could study multiple styles to their fullest extent, then combine those skillsets.
    The key word there being could, what shinigami would have the time to spend say...seventy years mastering a martial arts style when they have their duties for their division, killing hollows, etc. etc. Let alone multiple styles.
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    The point I'm trying to make is that I think the whole huge age thing is an arbitrary thing. It isn't meant to make the Shinigami these huge, superhuman entities (that's the job of spiritual energy).

    Most of the shinigami win and battle through use of extraordinary spiritual power. They have some sword skills and the like, sure, but I never got the impression that it was some masterful thing that no human could surpass... except in terms of them using spiritual power.

    Yes, theoretically you can argue that because they have such massive ages, they could devote themselves to skill and they become these ungodly masters, but... that is not, I think, what was intended in canon. To do so sort of violates the game we're playing.

    Incidentally, I hate the whole giant age thing anyway.
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2010-05-06 at 12:10 PM.

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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by strawberryman View Post
    Who?

    My former-KC member school teacher is Hamasaki Hibiki. No idea where you got that name.
    Ops. My bad. Higure is CMOT's character, a living shinigami (human).
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    ...How in the world is a shinigami going to use their "extraordinary power" without training and gaining skills?

    I mean, without shikai, a Shinigami has the following methods to fight: Kido, Zanjutsu, Hakudo. Hoho is effectively always a defensive/passive skill.

    You can't use kido without training. You can't use Hakudo without training. And you can't use Zanjutsu without training.

    Ultimately, they're people with swords and spells (and occasionally fists). Do you know how you don't cut off your own hand when you go fight someone with a sword?

    You train.

    Now. When all you have is a basic sword, and you come up against a guy with absurd strength and toughness (remember, Chad withstood a falling telephone pole before his powers manifested, as well as uprooting and swinging one) who can shoot blasts that, offhand, look equivalent to full power mid-level Kido....Yeah, you're in trouble.

    But this doesn't mean they're chumps who lucked out on the superpower lottery and have no skill. They're probably...average. And Chad is way the heck above average.

    I would imagine your average Unseated Shinigami to be roughly equivalent to, oh, a Greek Hoplite. Better than an untrained peasant with a sword, but nothing truly superhuman. The ones who really apply themselves to their training become officers.

    As for the age thing...I'm not sure why you hate it. I mean, they're not in the physical Mortal World. Such things would act differently.
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    I'm not saying they're chumps, I'm saying they're not superhuman demigods who can dispatch people with skill alone.

    I'm contending that a Shinigami without power is not going to be endlessly beyond the capabilities of a mortal.

    I'm saying this because Tacky seems to be under the impression that Akemi somehow makes his mortal utterly obsolete, just by being a Shinigami who is good with a sword.

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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    Ops. My bad. Higure is CMOT's character, a living shinigami (human).
    Hmm? What? Oh, a mistake. I'll go back to not posting again.
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    I admit, I think there can be Shinigami who aren't that strong. My point was with Akemi, you said she was was specifically 'superbly skilled.'

    Superbly skilled for a Shinigami seems like it would be beyond the reach of a Mortal. If that wasn't what you intended, that is alright.

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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by CMOTDibbler View Post
    Hmm? What? Oh, a mistake. I'll go back to not posting again.
    Is that going to be a habit that continues into the game itself?

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackyhillbillu View Post
    I admit, I think there can be Shinigami who aren't that strong. My point was with Akemi, you said she was was specifically 'superbly skilled.'

    Superbly skilled for a Shinigami seems like it would be beyond the reach of a Mortal. If that wasn't what you intended, that is alright.
    Also, yeah, this.
    Last edited by KnightDisciple; 2010-05-06 at 12:49 PM.
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Quote Originally Posted by KnightDisciple View Post
    Is that going to be a habit that continues into the game itself?
    No, no. As soon as the game starts, I'll be quite talkative. As for criticism on other characters, not really something I'm good at.
    Last edited by CMOTDibbler; 2010-05-06 at 12:55 PM.
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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Well, given my arguments here about not thinking a Shinigami is capable of truly and epically breaking human boundaries of skill, I think that might put what I said (IE, 'superbly skilled') in perspective.

    I mean really, what do you call Tatsuki? Good? I think "good" fails to describe someone who is the second strongest martial artist in Japan while she has a broken arm. That's superbly skilled, right there. But she gets beaten all over the place.

    (Also superbly skilled are Inigo Montoya and Westley. That's some straight up awesome right there.)

    Akemi is meant to be quite skilled, but I never figured Ito was just your run of the mill martial artist either, considering he is training people in it at age 29, and will be using this skill against Hollows, presumably.
    Last edited by AmberVael; 2010-05-06 at 12:58 PM.

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    Default Re: BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 5

    Well, why wouldn't they be able to break human levels of skill? That may not have been shown in the show, but it is a completely rational extrapolation that they could, bare minimum, have the time to reach skill equivalent to the highest rank in any given martial art, while still being in their physical prime.

    Not enough to trivially pwn someone black belt and up without the use of their power, no, but still notably better than a human could accomplish. Such shinigami would be rare, because it still takes the same dedication that is required to become a 9th-dan in the real world. However, they probably would exist.
    Last edited by Sucrose; 2010-05-06 at 01:05 PM.
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