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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    ...you gave him his vorpal bite and claws of sharpness (basically Fortitude saving throw on a critical hit or victim loses a random limb)? I;m just cuirious.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Realistic CR where he'd actually be a challenge to a party of 4 including two spellcasters? 13-14 (in other words, facing him on 9-10 as campaign boss). CR by MM with those bonuses? 21.
    Last edited by Eldariel; 2010-05-06 at 09:58 PM.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    The Tarrasque's weakness is flight. If you want to make it harder, give it a breath weapon. Preferably radiant.
    Last edited by Faleldir; 2010-05-06 at 10:10 PM.

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Faleldir View Post
    The Tarrasque's weakness is flight. If you want to make it harder, give it a breath weapon.
    That makes it too much like a magicless Dragon. I prefer Spine blasts la Lavos. And then make all its attacks magical and give it some relevant sensory abilities (so it isn't fumbling around with a 50% miss chance against friggin' Greater Invisibility...if it even manages to pinpoint the opponent).

    At least give it scent, though it should frankly have Blindsight. And enough skill points in Spot to Spot something. And Trample-attack! Why doesn't it have one again? And a few immunities (such as Ability Drain, Drowning and Mind-Affecting...).
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    At least give it scent
    It has that actually.

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    It has that actually.
    Oh, true! Yay. Then give it 120' Blindsight. That's at least an improvement, though anything Superiorly Invisible still ****s it over.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    Oh, true! Yay. Then give it 120' Blindsight. That's at least an improvement, though anything Superiorly Invisible still ****s it over.
    flight screws it over.

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    flight screws it over.
    As does a hundred other things. My last post outlined changes that would help it against many of those, including Flight + Windwall and other rudimentary defenses. Problem is, that's not any good unless it can detect its opponents somehow.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Replace 20 magical beast HD with 20 levels in totemist.

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    As does a hundred other things. My last post outlined changes that would help it against many of those, including Flight + Windwall and other rudimentary defenses. Problem is, that's not any good unless it can detect its opponents somehow.
    Well, one thing I imagine would help it would be making it immune to a lot of wizard abilities, including the ones you outlined. He should also be immune to energy damage above a certain value so that the wizard can't simply end the battle by going Nova*.

    *I don't actually know if this would work well. If not ignore me.

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    The Tarrasque is one of my fav monsters. Soo I modified it one day when I was bored. Some of the things I added, including ironically the "sharpness" ability, were weird. I debated about flight but with some of the stuff I gave it I felt it would be too much.

    Spike Volley: Gave it some range attacks just like the Manticore
    True Sight: Constant "True Seeing" ability
    Hyper Beam: Yes, Hyper Beam! Corny as it seems but the thought of the Tarrasque charging an energy blast was vastly amusing.

    Ohh, and none of that only "one" exist stuff.
    Last edited by mikej; 2010-05-06 at 10:34 PM.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    At the very least, make it so it isn't horribly vulnerable to pretty much everything but direct damage.

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    flight screws it over.
    Also Plane Shift (lol)

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    The real question is, what would the Tarrasque's CR be if it had a flight speed of 100 ft?
    Last edited by Wonton; 2010-05-07 at 12:48 AM.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    In my personal opinion the trasq functions when the campaign puts it in certain situations. such as stop the rampaging ultimate monster before it gets to a town.
    The pcs should not know what the trasq is capable so its huge array of immunities means they will have to try and figure out a way of hurting it becuase it has a huge number of defenses.

    Second it's heading towards something their trying to protect so if they fly out of reach it just ignores them and heads towards the city.

    and finally the party should be relatively low level say 16 or so for a final end boss encounter (vary based on optimization).

    Are their tricks and techniques that can make this a non fight? Of course the game was play tested poorly.

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Faleldir View Post
    The Tarrasque's weakness is flight. If you want to make it harder, give it a breath weapon. Preferably radiant atomic.
    Fixed it for you.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2010-05-07 at 12:40 AM.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycanthromancer View Post
    Replace 20 magical beast HD with 20 levels in totemist.
    I'm pretty sure that would bring it up beyond CR 20. Especially if it's allowed to intelligently re-pick the feats that it gets from Hit Dice.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by awa View Post
    In my personal opinion the trasq functions when the campaign puts it in certain situations. such as stop the rampaging ultimate monster before it gets to a town.
    The pcs should not know what the trasq is capable so its huge array of immunities means they will have to try and figure out a way of hurting it becuase it has a huge number of defenses.

    Second it's heading towards something their trying to protect so if they fly out of reach it just ignores them and heads towards the city.

    and finally the party should be relatively low level say 16 or so for a final end boss encounter (vary based on optimization).

    Are their tricks and techniques that can make this a non fight? Of course the game was play tested poorly.
    You could have a psywarr grapple the critter and carry it somewhere where the party can try out what stuff works and what doesn't.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldariel View Post
    That makes it too much like a magicless Dragon. I prefer Spine blasts la Lavos. And then make all its attacks magical and give it some relevant sensory abilities (so it isn't fumbling around with a 50% miss chance against friggin' Greater Invisibility...if it even manages to pinpoint the opponent).
    Cut out the middle man. Throw Lavos at them.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by DrWonton View Post
    The real question is, what would the Tarrasque's CR be if it had a flight speed of 100 ft?
    You saw my list? That would solve flight, and leave you with:
    - Invisibility
    - Incorporeality
    - Etherealness
    - Superior Invisibility

    Even if you give it the means to defeat those, there are still plenty of mid-level tools against it in:
    - Walls of Force
    - Solid Fogs
    - Glitterdusts
    - Greases

    and generic tricks that enable you to negate its mobility to a sufficient degree, along with the actual killers:
    - Plane Shift
    - Control Water-type things
    - Any Domination-effect
    - Magic Jar
    - Control Undead


    Solving the tools that slow it down isn't necessary; it's only fair that it can be slower down. Having it so easy to avoid and destroy, though, isn't really alright. So those need to go if you want for it to truly challenge people.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    The Tarrasque is the Monk of the Monster Manual. Very fluffy, very cool, looks overpowered if you're new to the system... and cries itself to sleep the moment a player picks up a spellbook.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    The tarrasque should be built "in reverse". That is, it should be resistant to anything but direct damage, so the only way to kill it would be to go for a straight fight.

    Maybe someplace where it cannot be one-shotted by a charge.

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Disjunction breath.

    It's roar becomes a sonic shockwave that destroys all spells in a cone ahead, suppreses items for 1d6 rounds, and deals something like 20d6 sonic damage or so.

    Every 1d4 rounds.

    That's not all it needs, but that would be a really cool and useful ability.

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by DrWonton View Post
    The real question is, what would the Tarrasque's CR be if it had a flight speed of 100 ft?
    Still ~cr14. The tarrasque is simply a 1-trick pony with no spellcasting support, so even a 14th lv party can take it down with some coordination. Without abusing any stuff. With the fighter standing toe to toe and whacking it in melee. For instance, a slow spell reduces it to a pathetic 1 attack/round.

    You may want to look at the gangrath in MM5, which seems like a more fun and effective version of the tarrasque.

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    The Tarrasque is the Monk of the Monster Manual. Very fluffy, very cool, looks overpowered if you're new to the system... and cries itself to sleep the moment a player picks up a spellbook.
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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    The best use I've eer sen of the Tarasque was as a naion's secret ultimate weapon. It was only used if the s--- really hit the fan for them and the sent it out with their army (or what was left of it) so it was esentially a awesome tank protecting and distracting peope from the casters. I think it was also souped up and the nation's control gave it mind affecting immunity.

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    This might be a bit of a derail, but what do you think of the Pathfinder Tarrasque?

    http://www.pathfindersrd.com/bestiar...s/-t/tarrasque

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This might be a bit of a derail, but what do you think of the Pathfinder Tarrasque?

    http://www.pathfindersrd.com/bestiar...s/-t/tarrasque
    Give him vorpal teeth and claws of sharpness and call it a day.

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    Default Re: What would the tarrasque's CR be if...

    Quote Originally Posted by subject42 View Post
    This might be a bit of a derail, but what do you think of the Pathfinder Tarrasque?

    http://www.pathfindersrd.com/bestiar...s/-t/tarrasque
    I actually like that version a lot - as a matter of fact, I think that I'll use it from here on, with the addition of a vorpal bite and claws of sharpness, as suggested above.

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