Batwoman Is Back as a Lesbian

[Valda, Adlav and Samiam: the Jacked-Up Trinity]

Ya'll might wanna nix the religion talk or else this might happen.

[belboz]

My previous exposure to Batwoman (not to be confused with Batgirl) is almost entirely through the comic genius of Lore Sjoberg...er...whose online version of the Book of Ratings does *not* seem to include his discussion of Batman sidekicks, or I would post the link.

At least acording to Sjoberg, the original Batwoman had the distinction of being the most amazingly retrogressive female comic book character ever. She fought crime with her superpowered *makeup compact* and her *expanding hairnet*. Seriously. As he put it, it makes "Wonder Woman and her Amazon Hot Pants seem like A Room of One's Own by comparison." Given this history, I think this decision is really extra-funny.

[Holy_Knight]

That being said with the whole One Year with not Bats, Supes or Wonder Woman things should be interesting allow more focus on some of the lesser know characters.

Bah, they'll come back from their little trust-building vacation and Gotham, Metropolis, and wherever it is that Wonder Woman hangs out will be smoking piles of rubble.

--Okay probably not, but that's how it ought to happen... ;)

[Valiena]

The Voice of Mod:[/b] This post violated the rules on posting about religion, posting about politics, and possibly denegrating people based on their sexual orientation. Deleted, poster warned.

[Adeptus]

The so called Right wing loons, frown down upon homosexuality for the same reason as adultery, pre-marital sex, and bestiality. The sex organs were made for a purpose, that being the creation of children in the context of marriage. While all are of the same category, it matters not. In mainline Christianity, all sins are equal.
People who actually believe the bible, will point, rightly or wrongly, to Sodom and Gomorrah as reason to speak out so vigorously against homosexuality. You must forgive us that do not practise nominalism, and say what we believe. The left is by no means tolerant, they just pretend, and those of us on this side of the fence believe that tolerance is a virtue only for those without convictions.

You lost me totally there. I have no idea what you are supporting or arguing here. From your use of "the left" I gather you are a) from the states, and b) from the right side of the political spectrum.

It's amazing how you people manage to use "the left" as a pejorative and a synonym for "communist".

I'm also 99% sure you are (deliberately?) crossing from polite discussion of a comic's values to arguing politics in a way that is forbidden on these forums.

To get back on the topic:

I'm not a fan of DC. Unlike Marvel the DC "universe" doesn't really deserve the name. Some of the characters and stories work well on their own, but the whole setting with superman, JLA and Batman all thrown together (with all the rest) just doesn't work at all. Batman is at his best when concidered on his own, in a world without superhumans.

As for the gay batwoman... I just realized something that must amuse the gay community here in Finland.

Lesbian translates to Lesbo in finnish (obviously a loan word), and bat translates to Lepakko. The similarity is used by the gay community here (and others) so that lesbians are called Lepakko by themselves and others. It's a non-pejorative play on world. So Lepakko-nainen (Bat-woman) actually means Lesbian-Woman in finnish slang

:D That's pretty amusing

[Krytha]

My friend keeps talking about a superhero called the Hebrew Hammer. Does anyone know where that's from? I had never heard about it except from him... and he sounds hilarious...

[Holy_Knight]

:D That's pretty amusing

I wonder if that could be how they got the idea to do it in the first place.

My friend keeps talking about a superhero called the Hebrew Hammer. Does anyone know where that's from? I had never heard about it except from him... and he sounds hilarious...

I can't help you with the comic per se, but it sounds like it could based on Judas Maccabeus, AKA "Judas the Hammerer". That's just speculation on my part, though.

[Ing]

The so called Right wing loons, frown down upon homosexuality for the same reason as adultery, pre-marital sex, and bestiality. The sex organs were made for a purpose, that being the creation of children in the context of marriage. While all are of the same category, it matters not. In mainline Christianity, all sins are equal.
People who actually believe the bible, will point, rightly or wrongly, to Sodom and Gomorrah as reason to speak out so vigorously against homosexuality. You must forgive us that do not practise nominalism, and say what we believe. The left is by no means tolerant, they just pretend, and those of us on this side of the fence believe that tolerance is a virtue only for those without convictions.

because i'm of leftist matieral rather than fight your accusations i'm just going to tollerate your opinion and move on


the hebew hammer was a movie on comedy central I believe

if i remember right he fought Santa Clause to save Chaunkuka. we watched it in our Catholic religion class for christmas break. year before that we were treated to Life of Brian. that was the best class ever

[RecklessFable]

You lost me totally there. I have no idea what you are supporting or arguing here. From your use of "the left" I gather you are a) from the states, and b) from the right side of the political spectrum.

It's amazing how you people manage to use "the left" as a pejorative and a synonym for "communist".

Just wanted to clarify definitions of left and right as most Americans use it.

In 9th grade Social Studies class, at least in my school system, they actually showed us a chart where Extreme Left was Communism and Extreme Right was Fascism. It was also explained, that when you got to the far reaches of each end, they were indistinguishable to the the populace.

Judging by your "from the states" assessment, I'm guessing these terms mean something different where you are from. Maybe it's the similar to the difference between how in America, asking "Want a ride?" is very different than in England :p

Random rants:
As for the new Batwoman, as long as they don't kill off Batgirl to make room, I care little, I like Cassandra.

It is insteresting though how the new art has given Batwoman a strong jaw. I guess no matter how they implement it, they are going to be hamfisted about it in one way or another.

DC lost me during the Death of the Joker mega-crossover anyways. Worst ripoff ever.

[Majin_Gojira]

All this hubaboloo over Batwoman being a lesbian is funny--especially with what's going on in the Titans comic.

For those that don't know, leader of the "Brotherhood of Evil" known as "The Brain" (who is a brain in a dalek-like shell) recentrly used cloning tech to regrow his body so he could consumate his relationship with Monsieur Mallah.

Did I mention that Monsieur Mallah is a guy?

Or that he's a Superintelligent Gorilla?

You'd think that Gay Monkey Love in a "Teen" comic would get them more up in arms...guess they aren't paying attention.

[RecklessFable]

But Majin, those guys are Evil...

So the takeaway is that gay-beastiality is evil, but slightly butch (yet silicone augmented) lesbians are good.

And I still think DC has been jumping the shark for the last 20 years or so... If they needed a new character, why another bloody bat-character, especially with a living Batgirl?!?!

Dammit, making me angry again.

[Truwar]

LOL, this thread is the reason they made her a Lesbian. Another Batwoman comic? YAWN. A LESBIAN Batwoman? Think of all the free press! You have angry conservatives repeating the name over and over and you have guilty liberals buying out of a sense of duty. Not to mention the young males who will buy the comic just to see her kiss another gal. ;)

Pure marketing 101.

BTW Blade is a Mormon? LOL! Where the heck did you hear that?

[SpaceCoyoteVega]

Hmmm, I seem to remember a pilot episode or a season of the Birds of Prey on WB or something... all I really remember was one episode where they were playing Tatu during a fight scene... not really sure if they knew Tatu were lesbians when they played them during a show that seemed... well, you get where I'm going.

heh

appropriate of you to mention Tatu, given the direction DC seems to be taking this.

Yes, the creators of Birds of Prey were probably entirely aware that Tatu was being loudly marketed as a hot lesbian band in in lipstick and schoolgirl underwear. They might not have been aware that neither of the lead singers were actually lesbians, and the entire thing was a marketing ploy dreamed up by the band's (middle-aged, male) manager.

Doesn't mean some of the songs weren't good, and truth be told I wasn't that surprised. But it seems there can be a definate parallel drawn between that and the sudden introduction of LesbianBatwoman! by what seems to be the predominantly male creators of DC comics.

[Ing]

i remember reading an article on
"are many vampires Mormons"

they listed some famous ones, but most were vampire hunters, they listed Blade as mormon but didn't count as he was only half vampire.

hell if i know, just seem to remember that.

[Adeptus]

Just wanted to clarify definitions of left and right as most Americans use it.

Judging by your "from the states" assessment, I'm guessing these terms mean something different where you are from. Maybe it's the similar to the difference between how in America, asking "Want a ride?" is very different than in England :p

I'm from Scandinavia. In Europe people talk about "scandinavian socialism", in a very favorable light mostly. We pay pretty steep (and progressive) taxes, but we get a lot in return. Good healthcare for everybody, free university level education of high quality and so on. In the states socialism seems to be a dirty word.

I've seen an explanation at some point of how european right is pretty much equal to the democrats in the US, and the center is pretty much where the more extreme left is at the US. Something like that. :D

[Sergeantbrother]

Lesbianism isn't controversial or brave or even politically correct. Its mainstream. I can turn on TV and see girls making out any day.

If the people at DC really cared about diversity, they would have a fat super hero. Talk about under representation. Or if they wanted controversy, go with a fundementalist as others have said, its not as though a fundementalist Christian is too weird to be a comic book hero.

People who are genuinly seen as uncool - like fundementalists and fat people - don't get a superhero. Lesbians however, are cool and chique and sexy and very popular right now - particularly among young men. So excuse me if I'm not impressed by this show of tollerance and diversity.

[Ing]

there have been fundamentalist characters, though often they make better villians apprently :/

they did have a fat superhero...fat man the living flying saucer. needless to say it was embarasing.

frankly i don't see how a fat superhero would work...the physical stress and the limitations....it would be like having the continuing adventures of Chris Reaves (QUIVER IN EXCITEMENT AS HIS ADULT CARE PHYSICIAN ClEANS HIM).

what fundamentalist, they have christians, they have practicing christians, what more can u ask for? they can't really have an ultra consesrvative christian hero who goes around bombinb abortion clinics and beating up gay people...that'd be weird. what makes one a fundamentalist? do they have to be born agian protestants, can they be Catholics, or even Jewish? wouldn't anyone who takes their faith seriously, instead of as a cultural identity, be a fundamentalist? Nightcrawler is pretty fundamentals in his faith and is one of my favorites, as is the DareDevil. how much are u expecting it to be part of the character and what do u mean by fundamentalist?


might also add, that Spiderman when he started out was the 'uncool' guy. the typical nerd. and part of me is saddened and nestalgic for that age of his character...its something i think is downplayed in Ultimate.

[Sergeantbrother]

Oh come on, most fat people (unless you mean morbidly obese) can get around just fine. They can walk, run, jump, climb, etc. Just not as fast or as far. If you don't make the fat guy's power super speed and have him doing summersaults there shouldn't be any conflict.

And think about Professor Charles Xavier - he's in a wheel chair which is much more limiting than fat - unless its truely extreme obesity. I'm sure 100 pounds of fat wouldn't slow superman down at all - its just the mental image of a fat guy moving fast and with agility that seems less realistic than a guy flying around picking up trucks.

[The_Pyre]

Two words:

The Blob.

'Nuff said. ;D

[Baron]

Baron Von Mod: We've dipped into Religion, had a side order of politics and garnished with some comments that are edging towards being insulting to those concerned.

If the topic strays again, I'll lock it.

[Ing]

most "super" heros are in tip physical conditioning because of the strains and stress the job inheriently puts on their body. its not that overwieght people can't move around, its that they can't move around as well as a fit person...which puts them at a disadvange against ninjas pirartes, killer robots etc. not trying to be mean, but it is rather obvious that wider girth makes you a much easier target for bullets

and this would also present a paradox. if u want an overweight superhero, likely the high physical demand from heroing, would add additionaly stress to the body and cause them to loose weight! realisticly a fat superhero is going to either quickly get in shape.

now there are some cases like the Blob where its their 'power' but that might even be viewed as more insulting....however i can see Bruce Banner as overweight, i mean what's itmatter if Hulk has a gut? he's still the Hulk?.

[CelestialStick]

This is a very cool thread. My compliments to everybody involved. Things heated up for a while, but now everyting is all nice and civilized again. I hope the mod's won't shut this down for touching on real world religion and sexuality.

But back on the topic. Fundamentalist ultimately means the same in religion and in philosophy. A fundamentalist takes some things as fundamental truths. Some things are seen as self-evidently true, and they are used as the building blocks of a worldview.

A fundamentalist christian conciders the existance of God (and Jesus) as fundaments (and some other christian beliefs as well usually) and his/her worldview springs from these things. This makes rational discussion with an atheist or an agnostic very difficult for these people (just an observation).

Actually people who call themselves fundamentalist Christians believe that the Bible (both Old and New Testaments) is the literal, unexpurgated Word of God. That's different from merely believing that some things are self-evident.

It wouldn't be an issue, since it's only performed on a baby boy, never on an adult. At least to my knowledge, which is pretty good, since I'm Jewish.

I am too. If someone converts as an adult and isn't already circumsized then he gets circumsized as an adult. Otherwise it's done to Jewish boys in infancy.

My friend keeps talking about a superhero called the Hebrew Hammer. Does anyone know where that's from? I had never heard about it except from him... and he sounds hilarious...

The Hebrew Hammer
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The Hebrew Hammer is a film that was released in 2003. It stars Adam Goldberg, Judy Greer, Andy ****, Mario Van Peebles, and Peter Coyote. The plot concerns a Jewish superhero known as The Hebrew Hammer who must save Hanukkah from an evil Santa Claus who wants to destroy Hanukkah and make everyone celebrate Christmas. The film is set up as a parody of blaxploitation films (Melvin Van Peebles even appears in it, as "Sweetback"). Director Jonathan Kesselman has jokingly dubbed it the first "Jewsploitation" or Jewish exploitation film ever.

The film premiered at the Sundance Film Festival, and appeared at several other film festivals, Jewish and otherwise, during 2003. It had a limited theatrical run in late 2003, but the majority of its viewings came from a series of showings on Comedy Central in December of that year. This version of the movie was edited for television: all profanities were bleeped, and some scenes were cut. The DVD, released on November 16, 2004), contains the uncut version, which is rated R.

There's a whole plot spoiler there if you want to know more.

[Ing]

Then agian...maybe they are making Batgirl a lesbian too

evidence exibit L

http://www.superdickery.com/seduction/85.html

[Artisan]

Hmmm...wasn't BAtwoman brought in orginally to say 'hey, BAtman's not gay!'

Now bringing her in as a lesbian...

*Sniff* Do you small that? That's IRONY

[Ing]

that's true...though why they felt they needed a leather wearing crime fighter to prove he wasn't gay is beyond me.

what was she hired to investigate and find evidence of Bruce Wayne's sexual prefrence?

"Batgirl and the Case of the Gayward Ward"