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    Default Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignment?

    The title says it all. I can't find this in the SRD or in the DMG. anybody care to point out where this is?
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    In the Monster Manual, I believe. "Always" means 99% of the time, Usually means like, 66%, and Often is at least 33%.
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Okay thanks.

    Hmm. My plan just might work.

    Also, at least according to my copy it doesn't specify percentages. It says more than 50% for Usually, 40-50 for often and "There are exceptions but they're rare" for always.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-05-19 at 08:36 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra Ikari
    ...yeah, I'm basically gonna use you as my example to explain how White, as a color of magic, can represent pure evil. =P
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Ah. I didn't actually look in the book for those numbers. Just a rough approximation that says essentially the same thing.
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    Ah. I didn't actually look in the book for those numbers. Just a rough approximation that says essentially the same thing.
    Yeah. You're right. However, there's one specific passage I'm interested in. It says an always x creature may come from a plane that predetermines their alignment. Would this mean that if the creature were taken off of that plane before they were born (such as with a tarterian dragon) would that affect their alignment or does being native to a plane automatically make you the same alignment as that plane?
    Mystic Unity by DirtyTabs

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra Ikari
    ...yeah, I'm basically gonna use you as my example to explain how White, as a color of magic, can represent pure evil. =P
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Not nessicarily. After all, if fiends and the like had literally no ability to control their alignment, they'd default to neutral like animals, since they essentially lack moral capacity. They don't do evil for any reason, it's just what they do.

    But since they AREN'T neutral, that means that free will is involved. Sure, they grow up in a culture that is utterly and unflinchingly evil, sure they have a genetic disposition towards it, but it would be possible for even a Pit Fiend to decide for whatever reason to be Chaotic Good. It's just almost unheard of, hence the "Always".
    Last edited by Drakevarg; 2010-05-19 at 08:57 PM.
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Ah okay. Hmm. The only problem with my plan is trying to find a Pyroclastic dragon egg, hatching it, and passing the checks I'll need to. Oh yeah, and not attracting the wrath of mama and papa (I have very good reason for wanting a Pyroclastic dragon.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra Ikari
    ...yeah, I'm basically gonna use you as my example to explain how White, as a color of magic, can represent pure evil. =P
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    (I have very good reason for wanting a Pyroclastic dragon.)
    OTHER than the fact that they're awesome?
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    Not nessicarily. After all, if fiends and the like had literally no ability to control their alignment, they'd default to neutral like animals, since they essentially lack moral capacity. They don't do evil for any reason, it's just what they do.

    But since they AREN'T neutral, that means that free will is involved. Sure, they grow up in a culture that is utterly and unflinchingly evil, sure they have a genetic disposition towards it, but it would be possible for even a Pit Fiend to decide for whatever reason to be Chaotic Good. It's just almost unheard of, hence the "Always".
    Free will isn't part of D&D alignments, which is why some mindless things like skeletons are evil.
    Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
    DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
    Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.

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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    OTHER than the fact that they're awesome?
    .......no.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra Ikari
    ...yeah, I'm basically gonna use you as my example to explain how White, as a color of magic, can represent pure evil. =P
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    Yeah. You're right. However, there's one specific passage I'm interested in. It says an always x creature may come from a plane that predetermines their alignment. Would this mean that if the creature were taken off of that plane before they were born (such as with a tarterian dragon) would that affect their alignment or does being native to a plane automatically make you the same alignment as that plane?
    Please consult the table below:

    {TABLE]d4|result
    1|nature
    2|nurture
    3|both
    4|roll again twice[/TABLE]

    [Edit]: Realized the horror that is d3 and updated to d4, which is a funny die indeed.
    Last edited by Greenish; 2010-05-19 at 09:09 PM.
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    Free will isn't part of D&D alignments, which is why some mindless things like skeletons are evil.
    "Moral capacity" is the exact wording used in the PHB to explain why all animals are True Neutral. Skeletons are evil because they literally RUN ON EVIL. They don't have moral values, its they just happen to be powered by the tears of orphans.

    Besides, the only one you need to convince is the DM.
    Last edited by Drakevarg; 2010-05-19 at 09:08 PM.
    MUNDUM MENTI
    Since I don't want to bring it up every thread I'm in, my games only allow material from books I have physical copies of. I do not use the SRD.

    Books Owned:
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Please consult the table below:

    {TABLE]d4|result
    1|nature
    2|nurture
    3|both
    4|roll again twice[/TABLE]

    [Edit]: Realized the horror that is d3 and updated to d4, which is a funny die indeed.
    The only problem with the D4 is that it doesn't roll very well.
    The only problem with the D3 is it doesn't exist.

    I'm hoping to get a Pyroclastic dragon egg by getting rid of the disintegrate ray. SR too. I don't like SR.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-05-19 at 09:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra Ikari
    ...yeah, I'm basically gonna use you as my example to explain how White, as a color of magic, can represent pure evil. =P
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    The only problem with the D3 is it doesn't exist.
    They do actually, you can buy them in the shops. 6 sided with two 1s, two 2s and two 3s. I just use a d6 personally.
    Last edited by Boci; 2010-05-19 at 09:15 PM.
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    The only problem with the D4 is that it doesn't roll very well.
    Make it from rubber and toss it as hard as you can.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    The only problem with the D3 is it doesn't exist.
    Why you even bother to bring up such a minor detail I'll never know.
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Why you even bother to bring up such a minor detail I'll never know.
    because I can.Mythbusters disproved the double dipping myth.=p

    Quote Originally Posted by Boci View Post
    They do actually, you can buy them in the shops. 6 sided with two 1s, two 2s and two 3s. I just use a d6 personally.
    was unaware of this.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-05-19 at 09:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra Ikari
    ...yeah, I'm basically gonna use you as my example to explain how White, as a color of magic, can represent pure evil. =P
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    "Moral capacity" is the exact wording used in the PHB to explain why all animals are True Neutral. Skeletons are evil because they literally RUN ON EVIL. They don't have moral values, its they just happen to be powered by the tears of orphans.

    Besides, the only one you need to convince is the DM.
    Eh. Most I've talked to agree that negative energy isn't actually evil. Besides, a lich who is still powered by negative energy can be good aligned, and even be a paladin since it can have a good moral capacity. They aren't evil subtyped or anything like that implying they're powered by evil.

    Animals aren't not evil because they don't have a moral capacity, but because they don't act in a good or evil way. They basically just are. They kill things too, but unlike a skeleton which kills to kill, they kill to survive.
    Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
    DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
    Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.

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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    Eh. Most I've talked to agree that negative energy isn't actually evil. Besides, a lich who is still powered by negative energy can be good aligned, and even be a paladin since it can have a good moral capacity. They aren't evil subtyped or anything like that implying they're powered by evil.

    Animals aren't not evil because they don't have a moral capacity, but because they don't act in a good or evil way. They basically just are. They kill things too, but unlike a skeleton which kills to kill, they kill to survive.
    'scept, y'know, animals DO murder. And fiends "basically just are", too, if they are literally incapable of being good-aligned. They don't act in a good or evil way, they just torture and kill and rape and conquer because that's just how they're made.

    Now, if a fiend CAN be good-aligned, then it's more of a bias from their genetics/upbringing.
    Last edited by Drakevarg; 2010-05-19 at 09:23 PM.
    MUNDUM MENTI
    Since I don't want to bring it up every thread I'm in, my games only allow material from books I have physical copies of. I do not use the SRD.

    Books Owned:
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    Player's Handbook
    Dungeon Master's Guide
    Monster Manual
    Monster Manual III
    Complete Adventurer
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    Lords of Madness
    Planar Handbook
    Sandstorm
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    "You cannot be good without the ability to be evil." wish I could remember who said this. It works in reverse too.
    Last edited by Mystic Muse; 2010-05-19 at 09:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra Ikari
    ...yeah, I'm basically gonna use you as my example to explain how White, as a color of magic, can represent pure evil. =P
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyuubi View Post
    The only problem with the D3 is it doesn't exist.
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    okay. Maybe I was wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra Ikari
    ...yeah, I'm basically gonna use you as my example to explain how White, as a color of magic, can represent pure evil. =P
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Now the trick is getting a n00bish DM to believe that such things mean that you can roll a LN Barbarian or a CN Paladin or what have you. It would open up so many more options...

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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Greenish View Post
    Make it from rubber and toss it as hard as you can.
    I find shaking it in your cupped hand also works. There are also d12 that are marked with 3 sets of four numerals.
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorrin View Post
    Now the trick is getting a n00bish DM to believe that such things mean that you can roll a LN Barbarian or a CN Paladin or what have you. It would open up so many more options...
    Well, he's not noobish enough to allow that. Although he is a bit noobish when it comes to power levels of the various classes.
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    ...yeah, I'm basically gonna use you as my example to explain how White, as a color of magic, can represent pure evil. =P
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    I find shaking it in your cupped hand also works.
    Yeah, or tossing it upwards, or what have you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    There are also d12 that are marked with 3 sets of four numerals.
    I actually like the tetrahedron though.
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    'scept, y'know, animals DO murder. And fiends "basically just are", too, if they are literally incapable of being good-aligned. They don't act in a good or evil way, they just torture and kill and rape and conquer because that's just how they're made.
    Killing something for necessity of survival isn't usually called murder. It's why paladins don't have to be vegetarians.
    Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
    DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
    Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.

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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    Killing something for necessity of survival isn't usually called murder. It's why paladins don't have to be vegetarians.
    I didn't say "for necessity of survival". I said murder. Animals do murder. Monkeys, dolphins, etc, are known to murder their own kind without any survival-related reason.
    Last edited by Drakevarg; 2010-05-19 at 11:15 PM.
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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Psycho View Post
    I didn't say "for necessity of survival". I said murder. Animals do murder. Monkeys, dolphins, etc, are known to murder their own kind without any legitmate cause.
    Those are an acception, not a norm, nor is "neutral" an always alignment for animals. Or at least, not properly always. Those would be one of those rare evil ones. Kind of like how there are a few good ones that save little Timmy when he falls in a well.
    Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
    DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
    Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Drakevarg's Avatar

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    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Quote Originally Posted by Yukitsu View Post
    Those are an acception, not a norm, nor is "neutral" an always alignment for animals. Or at least, not properly always. Those would be one of those rare evil ones. Kind of like how there are a few good ones that save little Timmy when he falls in a well.
    Murder isn't the norm for humans, either.

    And in regards to DnD alignment, no. The PHB specifically states that animals are incapable of being anything but True Neutral. Not "in almost all cases". Always.
    Last edited by Drakevarg; 2010-05-19 at 11:17 PM.
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  30. - Top - End - #30
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Zombie

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    Sep 2008
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    The great state of denial

    Default Re: Where does it point out where always, often and usually mean in terms of alignmen

    Where does it say that? All I can find is "always neutral" besides each of them, which doesn't mean always.

    People also tend, on the whole to engage in more senseless violence and such than even an "evil" animal, hence the wider variation even though we're considered usually TN.
    Last edited by Yukitsu; 2010-05-19 at 11:19 PM.
    Me: I'd get the paladin to help, but we might end up with a kid that believes in fairy tales.
    DM: aye, and it's not like she's been saved by a mysterious little girl and a band of real live puppets from a bad man and worse step-sister to go live with the faries in the happy land.
    Me: Yeah, a knight in shining armour might just bring her over the edge.

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