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  1. - Top - End - #481
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Owrtho's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Ah, I'll try updating the three relevant posts some time this week. As for the saving room on the poison types, while true, I figure I'll leave it as is for the time being.

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  2. - Top - End - #482
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    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Hey, something I just noticed:

    This has burrow speeds, climb speeds, fly speeds, and swim speeds. It even has a weird teleporting ability and the ability to travel via tentacle.

    But it doesn't have anything that boosts regular land speed. It can burrow, climb, fly, and swim, but it can't just haul.

    I figured it would go under Limb:

    Mobile (or Running) Limb

    Required Level ????: This limb does not have a hand, nor does it provide a bonus to grapple. It is designed for locomotion, not for manipulation and looks like a foot or footlike appendage (assuming standard race anatomy, may vary) or whatever limb you wish to rely on for mobility on land. It cannot normally hold a weapon.

    If you have at least two mobile limbs you gain a +10' bonus to base land speed per round. This speed increases by 10' for every two additional mobile limbs you have.

    This is not an enhancement bonus, but rather an actual increase to your base land speed.


    I figured someone with an extra two mobile limbs would have a centaur look, an extra four (total 6) would move like that roach guy from Men In Black, and after that you'd start looking sort of like a centipede (course your character, your look).
    Last edited by periscope69; 2011-01-19 at 01:08 AM.

  3. - Top - End - #483
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Owrtho, I cant help but be amazed at how this class finds subtle ways of balancing itself out. Everytime I think I've found something broken about it, I look a little closer and find that I'm wrong. The only thing that needs to be fixed is that I agree with the people saying the bite damage needs a level-based cap.

    I like the feature Periscope is proposing. I had similar thoughts myself. I'll leave the level and points up to you though.
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  4. - Top - End - #484
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Well, the crawling limb does allow you to use your climb speed in place of your land speed if it's higher, but I suppose it might be worth adding on an extra augment just for boosting speed.

    I'm glad that the class seems to be fairly balanced. It is somewhat funny though given I constantly was overestimating the number of form points a character would be likely to have at a given level.

    If the bite damage needs a cap, what would be suggested?

    I've been slowly editing the class with the updated version (it goes slowly due to changes made since the most recent update of the revamp, and things picking up again after the holidays in RL).
    As a side note, I've been tinkering with an idea for another ozodrin prc, and while it's still quite incomplete, I figured I'd see if people wanted me to put up what I have so far (quite incomplete meaning i only have a few half formed abilities a capstone, and some good ideas of what a few other abilities will be).

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  5. - Top - End - #485
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Oh yeah, and to add a more numerical bonus to legs(having a climb speed gives you a +8 to climb checks, normal limbs give a +1 to grapple check and can hold a weapon) I think that each leg should give a +1 bonus to resist being tripped or bull rushed or state that it counts as a leg for such purposes.

  6. - Top - End - #486
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Well, the crawling limb does allow you to use your climb speed in place of your land speed if it's higher, but I suppose it might be worth adding on an extra augment just for boosting speed.

    I'm glad that the class seems to be fairly balanced. It is somewhat funny though given I constantly was overestimating the number of form points a character would be likely to have at a given level.

    If the bite damage needs a cap, what would be suggested?

    I've been slowly editing the class with the updated version (it goes slowly due to changes made since the most recent update of the revamp, and things picking up again after the holidays in RL).
    As a side note, I've been tinkering with an idea for another ozodrin prc, and while it's still quite incomplete, I figured I'd see if people wanted me to put up what I have so far (quite incomplete meaning i only have a few half formed abilities a capstone, and some good ideas of what a few other abilities will be).

    Owrtho
    I believe a leg augment or two would be legit, seeing how you can increase the power of every other limb...

    For the bite damage cap, I have no idea... I'll think more about it, if it can be of any help

    And as for me, I'd love to see your new class, even if it is incomplete, a bit of help from PEACH could do the trick...

  7. - Top - End - #487
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    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Well, the crawling limb does allow you to use your climb speed in place of your land speed if it's higher, but I suppose it might be worth adding on an extra augment just for boosting speed.

    I'm glad that the class seems to be fairly balanced. It is somewhat funny though given I constantly was overestimating the number of form points a character would be likely to have at a given level.

    If the bite damage needs a cap, what would be suggested?

    I've been slowly editing the class with the updated version (it goes slowly due to changes made since the most recent update of the revamp, and things picking up again after the holidays in RL).
    As a side note, I've been tinkering with an idea for another ozodrin prc, and while it's still quite incomplete, I figured I'd see if people wanted me to put up what I have so far (quite incomplete meaning i only have a few half formed abilities a capstone, and some good ideas of what a few other abilities will be).

    Owrtho
    I thank everyone who said the leg bit was a good idea .

    Also did small edit to flavor text of the leg augment.

    I'd say you could cap the bite damage at colossal sized bite damage. The Oz could always take the Improved Natural Attack feat to take it further.

    I like necroticplague's idea of the bonuses to resist being tripped or bullrushed, though one thing:

    Should it be +1 per leg, or pair of legs (seeing as how you only get a boost to speed per pair)?

    Would it be broken if:

    1) The Oz got a bonus to balance checks while using this ability as well, providing that circumstances permitted it (ie he's probably not going to get a bonus to balance on narrow spaces, but on slippery or extremely steep or turbulent spaces [like a ship's deck in rough sea's or a greased patch of ground] I wouldn't see a problem.)

    2) The Oz gained a bonus on bullrush attempts while under the influence of this mod (+2 per pair would seem good). A bonus to trip attempts might be tricky as some might say that's more of a tentacle thing.

    3) A trample attack being available to the Oz while using this (as an augment not part of the leg bonus itself), with a bonus to the attack roll equal to the number of pairs that he has (ie 4 pairs of legs gives you a +4 on the attack roll). Probably only usable against creatures at least one size smaller than yourself (so if it wanted to get through a lines of human soldiers, the Oz would need to be one size larger than they are [probably through the use of engorged flesh augment]) with the damage type being contingent on how the the legs were described (if they were described as similar to elephant legs then bludgeoning whereas centipede legs would do piercing).

    It would be hilarious to see the Oz just plow through a wall of soldiers because they were between him and the exit.

    Could other characters use the Oz as a mount? If so how much could he carry and how many people could he carry?

    Also, quick question on something unrelated, can you haul yourself up with your tentacle augment?

    I mean like say a window was 20 feet off the ground, you use the Long Tentacle Augment to get a tentacle up to the window and grab hold, then pull yourself up. Would that be possible and if so, how much weight could the tentacle support?
    Last edited by periscope69; 2011-01-19 at 01:07 AM.

  8. - Top - End - #488
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by periscope69 View Post
    I thank everyone who said the leg bit was a good idea .

    Also did small edit to flavor text of the leg augment.

    I'd say you could cap the bite damage at colossal sized bite damage. The Oz could always take the Improved Natural Attack feat to take it further.
    That seems like it could be reasonable for the bite attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by periscope69 View Post
    I like necroticplague's idea of the bonuses to resist being tripped or bullrushed, though one thing:

    Should it be +1 per leg, or pair of legs (seeing as how you only get a boost to speed per pair)?
    I'll note that while the other movement granting features also only give a boost to speed per pair of limbs, they do boost the appropriate check for every feature. Thus it would be per individual leg rather than pair.

    Quote Originally Posted by periscope69 View Post
    1) The Oz got a bonus to balance checks while using this ability as well, providing that circumstances permitted it (ie he's probably not going to get a bonus to balance on narrow spaces, but on slippery or extremely steep or turbulent spaces [like a ship's deck in rough sea's or a greased patch of ground] I wouldn't see a problem.)
    This would likely be an augment to the legs, so as not to overload it.

    Quote Originally Posted by periscope69 View Post
    2) The Oz gained a bonus on bullrush attempts while under the influence of this mod (+2 per pair would seem good). A bonus to trip attempts might be tricky as some might say that's more of a tentacle thing.
    Might might either make it +1 per leg with the other things, or make it an inexpensive augment required the trample one.

    Quote Originally Posted by periscope69 View Post
    3) A trample attack being available to the Oz while using this (as an augment not part of the leg bonus itself), with a bonus to the attack roll equal to the number of pairs that he has (ie 4 pairs of legs gives you a +4 on the attack roll). Probably only usable against creatures at least one size smaller than yourself (so if it wanted to get through a lines of human soldiers, the Oz would need to be one size larger than they are [probably through the use of engorged flesh augment]) with the damage type being contingent on how the the legs were described (if they were described as similar to elephant legs then bludgeoning whereas centipede legs would do piercing).

    It would be hilarious to see the Oz just plow through a wall of soldiers because they were between him and the exit.
    Well, This could be an interesting idea. As an augment, the attack, damage, or both would be based on the number of legs with the augment (so it might be a base of 1d4 damage + 1 per additional leg with the augment), and the attack may or may not be boosted by other legs with or without the augment.

    Quote Originally Posted by periscope69 View Post
    Could other characters use the Oz as a mount? If so how much could he carry and how many people could he carry?
    The ozodrin can carry others the same way any creature can. It's a combination of weight capacity, size difference, and DM fiat. After all, a small or tiny character could technically use a medium or larger ally as a mount if the DM allows it.

    Quote Originally Posted by periscope69 View Post
    Also, quick question on something unrelated, can you haul yourself up with your tentacle augment?

    I mean like say a window was 20 feet off the ground, you use the Long Tentacle Augment to get a tentacle up to the window and grab hold, then pull yourself up. Would that be possible and if so, how much weight could the tentacle support?
    Similar to the above, this would technically be the equivalent of trying to pull yourself up onto the ledge using only 1 arm. If you're strong enough, you can do it, but most likely it is easier to use more than 1 limb or tentacle. It also would be somewhat harder given the increased distance that must be travelled.

    As something of a side note. While the limbs would actually be modifying your base movement speed, it would be important to note that they would not affect other movement speeds based on your base movement speed (thus if you have something equal to half or twice your normal movement speed, you cant get a cheep increase to it using legs).

    Also, it seems so far Markus Darkmind is the only one particularly interested in the PRC I'm working on. I'll give a hint though. It is not the eventually planned Maddening Choir I have a few ideas for, but rather shall be based on type instead of other classes, allowing it to be somewhat longer than the other ozodrin PRCs. Glimmar's

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  9. - Top - End - #489
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Also, it seems so far Markus Darkmind is the only one particularly interested in the PRC I'm working on. I'll give a hint though. It is not the eventually planned Maddening Choir I have a few ideas for, but rather shall be based on type instead of other classes, allowing it to be somewhat longer than the other ozodrin PRCs. Glimmar's

    Owrtho
    Is this class you're hinting at the machine class listed on the Menacing Manor page? Either way I am incredibly interested in anything Ozodrin related.

  10. - Top - End - #490
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Ah, noticed that did you. Well, the possibility exists.

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  11. - Top - End - #491
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Excellent work, good sir. I already created a possible prestige class, taking inspiration from the epic progression listed.

    Prerequisites: Form Points, Aberrant Nature class feature.

    The Protean Horror, as I hereby name it, possibly requires a little bit of depowering, starting with the bonus feats. The skills, BAB, HD and saves continue from the ozodrin, but the class features are as follows:

    1st: Form Points, Aberrant feat
    2nd: Myriad Forms (1)
    3rd: Aberrant Feat
    4th: Myriad Forms (2)
    5th: Aberrant Feat
    6th: Rapid Form
    7th: Aberrant Feat
    8th: Myriad Forms (3)
    9th: Aberrant Feat
    10th: Myriad Forms (4), Celeritous Form

    Form Points (Ex): Your Protean Horror levels stack with Ozodrin levels to determine features. You gain a form point at each level, as well as two additional points per level which may only be used in your true form (see below).

    Aberrant Feat (Ex): At each odd level, you gain a bonus aberrant feat.

    Myriad Forms (Ex): At each indicated level, you gain an additional form that you may use your manifest form ability to assume. These are not your true form, and they have less form points than your true form, as mentioned above.

    Rapid Form (Ex): As the Ozodrin class feature. If you already have this ability, or gain it from another source later, you instead gain Celeritous Form (see below).

    Celeritous Form (Ex): At 10th level, you may change a number of features in one of your forms equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 3) as a full round action, or half as much (minimum 2) as a standard action. You may still change 2 features as a move action. If you already have Celeritous form, or later gain it from another source, you may instead change twice your CHA modifier in features (minimum 6) as a full round action, your CHA modifier (minimum 3) as a standard action, half your CHA modifier as a move action (minimum 2), or 2 features as a swift action.

  12. - Top - End - #492
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    I'm glad you like it. That seems like an interesting PRC. At a glance it doesn't seem too powerful, though the number and frequency of granting aberrant feats may be enough to do it with proper selection. I'd suggest using a table (you can quote the ozodrin to see how it's done, and just change the class features and get rid of excess levels).

    As a side note, I'm considering allowing Aberrant Monstrosity to be taken more than once (allowing you to choose a different creature type each time). Any thoughts on this?

    I also updated the first post. Only a few minor changes in actual mechanics (mainly wording and some splitting of abilities to make things cleaner).
    Spoiler
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    As for the changes, Rapid Form is full charisma modifier now (it seemed too small before. Also sorry Gideon Falcon about making Celeritous Form possibly need some changing).
    Also changed devour grapple bonus from mouth size to be based on size of the mouth relative to medium, rather than the creature being devoured (though I may change it back). It also deals bite damage to undead and constructs (or anything else lacking a con score) now when devouring, rather than the damage that would normally just be dealt to con.
    Bizarre Grappler grants a grapple bonus if you have snatch improved grab rather than a bonus aberrant feat (this is also retroactive if you gain them later). Aberrant nature doesn't make you require food, breathing, or sleep if you didn't need it before, and also allows you to take feats or classes that required your previous type.
    I think that's all of it. Also still need to update wording on the mouth and tentacle feature in the first post.


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  13. - Top - End - #493
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Ah, yes, that is a good idea. I'll keep that in mind. Anyway, I also bestow 2 cookies upon you for making the Slender Man possible in D&D.

  14. - Top - End - #494
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    The class is more easily read now, I hope. I was messing with it a few days ago and I'm still finding places where I could have worded things better. I'm happy to have helped out in what is IMHO among the best (and certainly most popular) homebrew projects on these forums. Well done, Owrtho.
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  15. - Top - End - #495
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Thanks for the praise.

    Here are some cursory versions of the leg augment:

    Leg: Additional cost 1
    The limb is a leg. As such it cannot be used to carry things and no longer grants a grapple bonus. Instead it grants a +1 bonus to resisting bullrush and trip attempts as well as a +1 bonus to bullrush attempts. In addition, every two leg augments increases your base land speed by 5 ft. This increase does not count toward other factors that are based on your base land speed. If this would increase your total number of legs to 4 or more (counting legs that are not features), you are counted as a quadruped.

    Trampling Leg: Additional cost 3
    Requires level 8 and Leg augment: You gain the ability to trample over smaller enemies. As a full round action, you may move up to your base land speed distance. You make a trample attack the occupants of any squares you move through, provided they are at least one size category smaller than your largest trampling leg. This attacks deals 1d4 + Strength mod damage (for a medium leg) +1 per additional trampling leg you have, and gains a bonus to attack for every two leg features you posses. You may only trample a given creature once per round. Creatures dealt damage must make a Strength check (DC 10 + number of leg features you posses) or be knocked prone.

    These are fairly rough versions though, so may need some work. Any thoughts or suggestions?

    Owrtho
    Last edited by Owrtho; 2011-01-26 at 03:10 PM.
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  16. - Top - End - #496
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Thanks for the praise.

    Here are some cursory versions of the leg augment:

    Leg: Additional cost 1
    The limb is a leg. As such it cannot be used to carry things and no longer grants a grapple bonus. Instead it grants a +1 bonus to resisting bullrush and trip attempts as well as a +1 bonus to bullrush attempts. In addition, every two leg augments increases your base land speed by 5 ft. This increase does not count toward other factors that are based on your base land speed. If this would increase your total number of legs to 4 or more (counting legs that are not features), you are counted as a quadruped.

    Trampling Leg: Additional cost 3
    Requires level 8 and Leg augment: You gain the ability to trample over smaller enemies. As a full round action, you may move up to your base land speed distance. You make a trample attack the occupants of any squares you move through, provided they are at least one size category smaller than your largest trampling leg. This attacks deals 1d4 damage (for a medium leg) +1 per additional trampling leg you have, and gains a bonus to attack for every two leg features you posses. You may only trample a given creature once per round. Creatures dealt damage must make a Strength check (DC 10 + number of leg features you posses) or be knocked prone.

    These are fairly rough versions though, so may need some work. Any thoughts or suggestions?

    Owrtho
    On the leg augment, I'd think about increasing the speed up to 10', because otherwise it would still be better to just go crawling limb.
    About the trample attack, shouldn't you add the Strenght Bonus?

  17. - Top - End - #497
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Except that crawling limb also increases speed in 5 feet per two limbs, and doesn't build upon your already existing base speed. It also costs an more form points.
    As for the trample using strength mod, I'd just forgotten.

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  18. - Top - End - #498
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    I agree with MD, just needs more speed. You could make a separate augment that does nothing but add speed cheaply. You could call it Expeditious Legs or something.
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  19. - Top - End - #499
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    So, I am finally playing an Ozodrin in a low-ish level game (we get +2 LA free). Although I have not gotten to act in combat yet, I've spent more time reading the first few levels.

    How does bizarre grappler work? How does Ozodrin grappling work in general? I think there is too much room for DM interpretation right now.

    First, you gain snatch. Now, it is unclear whether or not snatch has any effect on targets larger than 3 sizes below your own (near worthless for medium PCs). By RAW I think it technically does but improved snatch implies that it does not. I think bizarre grappler should straight up tell you what sizes the ability works on in order to avoid confusion. IMO one size category below your own would probably be for the best as a full auto-grapple could get annoying for DMs. Also, is your grapple bonus based on the size of your features or on your size? The section talking about features states "The feature’s size does however effect the damage die used and noted traits.". What does that mean? Does it include grappling? Tripping?


    Also, why do tentacles/Limbs always have a base reach of 5ft? Couldn’t they just start off using your normal reach?

    I notice that there is no “Extra dimensional Stomach” ability listed. Primary stomach is currently somewhat confusing – there should be a line referring to the fact that you do not gain swallow whole when you first get the ability. That could be confusing even though it is in the chart.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2011-01-26 at 09:41 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #500
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Well then. Lets see here.

    The portion of snatch that is limited to size, is this part "If the creature gets a hold on a creature three or more sizes smaller, it squeezes each round for automatic bite or claw damage." Everything else can work on creatures of any size.

    Grapple bonus is based on your own size, though you never take grapple penalties for size.

    Noted traits are things specifically mentioned in the feature description, or the augments that increase or decrease the size.

    I have however considered having grappling be based on the size of the smallest feature being used in the grapple (but as of right now it is not).

    That is a valid point on reach for larger creatures, but mainly it is just to help avoid easy abuse. I will note though that any spells, abilities, feats, etc. that increase your reach increase the reach of features as well.

    Extra dimensional Stomach was renamed Primary Stomach. Must have forgotten to fix that. I'll make note about not gaining swallow whole in the ability.

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  21. - Top - End - #501
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    I think noting that grappling is not based on feature size would be nice. It is something that will come up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    The portion of snatch that is limited to size, is this part "If the creature gets a hold on a creature three or more sizes smaller, it squeezes each round for automatic bite or claw damage." Everything else can work on creatures of any size.
    Looking back at the feat, snatch bases itself on improved grab (At least the version used by D&D hypertext, which I hope is the most recent). Which, by default, only works on creatures up to one size category below your own.

    However, improved snatch from draconomicon is worded as though snatch had no effect creatures larger than 3 size categories below you. This could cause some confusion.

  22. - Top - End - #502
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Improved snatch seems to be talking about the part where you can squeeze something 3 or more sizes smaller than you.
    As for improved grab, I'd forgotten it only could be used on smaller creatures, however, for this purpose you would use the size of the feature (as with the squeezing for improved snatch).

    As you mentioned though, this could cause some confusion. As such I'll try to clarify it later.

    Owrtho
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  23. - Top - End - #503
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    By the way, I also have an idea for a PrC that combines the Ozodrin with Draken's Evolutionist class.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Well, they seem like they would be well suited to each other. I't be interested in seeing what you could come up with.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Although, just to note, I just realized that by putting all her form points into special and basic eyes, a 20th level ozodrin could easily have gaze attacks, two of which can affect any given creature, that deal 7d6 damage, 4 damage to an ability score, cause fear for 2d4 rounds, or daze for a round, in addition to having blindsight 60 feet, Tremorsense 120, Arcane and invisibility sight 100 feet, +12 on listen checks, +44 on spot and search checks, unflankable, and never flat footed, all with a +33 to AC and a +25 to reflex saves. Another 18 points, and she also has a 25% chance of evading any attack that doesn't affect an area. In other words, I think one might have to put a cap on the reflex save and AC bonuses from the eyes. The other stuff is pretty average for a 20th level character in a tier 2 or maybe 1 class.

    Anyway:

    Cosmic Monstrosity

    Prerequisites: Form Points class feature, Knowledge (Things Man Was Not Meant To Know, which I suggest should be added to the actual Ozodrin skill list at least under 'forbidden lore') 8 ranks or 4 if it is not an Ozodrin class skill, at least 2 natural weapons from mutations, Eldritch Mutant feat (see below)

    Skills: As Ozodrin
    Skill points per level: 0 + Int modifier

    Hit die: d8
    {table=heading]level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special
    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Form Points, Mutations
    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +0
    |Mutations, Aberrant Mutation
    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Mutations, Aberrant Mutation
    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Mutations, Aberrant Mutation
    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +1
    |Mutations, Aberrant Mutation, Aberrant Teratomorph
    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Mutations, Aberrant Mutation
    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Mutations, Aberrant Mutation
    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |Mutations, Aberrant Mutation
    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Mutations, Aberrant Mutation
    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |Mutations, Aberrant Mutation, Superior Teratomorph[/table]

    Form Points (Ex): You gain 2 form points at each level, and your Cosmic Monstrosity levels stack to determine augments you may use on your features. You only gain new features, however, at half of your normal rate. You may suppress any or all of your mutations in your worldly guise; you do not gain the benefits of those you suppress.

    Mutations: At each level, you gain two mutations. Your Cosmic Monstrosity levels stack with Evolutionist levels to determine your Mutator level, as well as the duration of Teratomorph.

    Aberrant Mutation: At each level above first, you gain a single mutation from the following list.

    Spoiler
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    Aberrant Focus
    Prerequisites: -
    You gain 2 form points which can only be used for a specific feature type, such as special eyes or tentacles.

    Unearthly skill
    Prerequisites: -
    You may apply Unearthly power to your natural weapons gained through mutations. Your Cosmic Monstrosity levels stack with your Ozodrin levels to determine the enhancement bonus.

    Mutant Form
    Prerequisites: -
    You gain a single Form Point

    Aberrant Feat
    Prerequisites: -
    You gain a bonus aberrant feat.

    Aberrant Mutations
    Prerequisites: Unearthly skill
    You may apply augments to natural weapons gained through mutations. You may not apply augments that change or remove the natural weapon.

    Mutant Blossom
    Prerequisites: Unearthly skill
    You gain an additional maximum instance of each natural weapon you may gain through mutations. For example, you could gain an additional Gore attack, or two additional tentacle attacks. You must still select the mutation that grants the natural weapon in order to take advantage of this increase. This does not allow you to gain additional arms or limbs through the claw, slam, or pincer weapons.
    You may only take this Evolution once.


    Aberrant Teratomorph (Su): At 5th level, you may use Teratomorph to take a Pseudonatural form.

    Superior Teratomorph (Ex): At 10th level, you gain Form of Madness as a bonus feat. If you already have it, you instead gain a bonus Aberrant Feat.

    Eldritch Mutant [Aberrant, Mutator]
    Prerequisites: Aberrant Form, Mutator level 1
    Benefit: Your Mutator feats are considered Aberrant feats for all purposes.
    Whenever you gain a bonus aberrant feat, you may instead gain a bonus mutator feat.

    *Alternate*

    Eldritch Mutant [Aberrant, Mutator]
    Prerequisites: Aberrant Form, Mutator level 1
    Benefit: Your Mutator Feats are considered Aberrant Feats for all purposes, except they cannot be taken instead of bonus aberrant feats. You may, however, use the Racial Feat mutation to gain a bonus aberrant feat.
    Last edited by Gideon Falcon; 2011-01-29 at 01:23 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #506
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    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Well then. Lets see here.

    Grapple bonus is based on your own size, though you never take grapple penalties for size.

    I have however considered having grappling be based on the size of the smallest feature being used in the grapple (but as of right now it is not).

    Owrtho
    I'd have it be based off the Primary feature involved in the grapple.

    Even if you don't take penalties, larger creatures get scary bonuses to grapple later on, to the point where it's simply not worth a medium or smaller sized creature to invest in grappling.

    Granted you could always have them designate a Primary grappling feature and all other features that the player designates as involved in the grapple (and that possess the capacity to do so) be counted as doing the "aid another" action (might want to ramp the on aid another to +4 to make up for the fact that the OZ will probably be medium sized or smaller starting out, maybe with a cap on how many limbs can participate in grappling a single creature based on it's size relative to the size of the OZ).

    I also agree with Markus Darkmind's suggestions on the leg augment.

  27. - Top - End - #507
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    More grapple talk:
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    Quote Originally Posted by periscope69 View Post
    Granted you could always have them designate a Primary grappling feature and all other features that the player designates as involved in the grapple (and that possess the capacity to do so) be counted as doing the "aid another" action (might want to ramp the on aid another to +4 to make up for the fact that the OZ will probably be medium sized or smaller starting out, maybe with a cap on how many limbs can participate in grappling a single creature based on it's size relative to the size of the OZ).
    Fine-sized tentacles with the hooked tentacle augment can already do that for 3fp each. Also, aberrant blood(Flexible limbs) + improved grapple + deepspawn is a +8 bonus to grappling right there. Some ozodrin might not take deepspawn, so +6. That’s like being 1.5-2 size categories larger.


    Whatever we do, it is vital to note in the first page exactly how grappling works when you are an ozodrin. Particularly the snatch ability. Perhaps grappling and the improved grab should be based on the largest feature involved with the grapple? That makes sense and gives a reason to pay the cost for at least one really large feature if you want to turbo grapple everything. Basing it off the smallest doesn’t make any sense. Your giant tentacle gets weaker when the fine sized one helps it? Why? Is it some kind of loner that refuses to work with others? Does it slack off whenever help arrives?


    -----------------------------------------------

    On another note, the feature description no longer specifies that the limit only applies to class-granted natural attacks. Was this intentional?

    On yet another note, the aberrant affinity lost the bit where it specified that the bonus does not apply to enemy aberrations’ spells and class features. That should be re-added. I otherwise think the new layout of the first level is much better than it was previously.

  28. - Top - End - #508
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    @Gideon Falcon: Not sure where you got the "25% chance of evading any attack that doesn't affect an area". Unless that has to do with some part of reflex saves that I'm not aware of.

    As for the class, it seems rather interesting, though I'd need read through the evolutionist in more detail to be sure of balance.

    On the knowledge part, I make it a habit to try avoid putting non-standard skills in classes, though I may mention that they also fit for the class if the DM is using it. This is mainly as I've seen some people wary to use said skills though. Still nothing wrong with that.
    On the prerequisites, I'd recommend splitting them up by type (take a look at the PRC for the ozodrin for examples. There is a link at the bottom of the first post).

    For the leg, how would a 1 time per leg augment that makes it increase the movement speed by 5' for 1 or 2 points sound? Would allow legs to point wise give a more noticeable speed boost, but still not let them just make 1 leg and get ungodly speeds from it.

    Also, I see the point on the large grapple part. I'll make it use the size of the largest feature in grapple I think (though I may only have it grant half the bonus counting up from your body size).

    Magikeeper, the two things you pointed out are typos, and will be corrected when next I update the first post (Hopefully this weekend). Tanks for the catch.

    Owrtho
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  29. - Top - End - #509
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    Gideon Falcon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Well, remember the 'flowing shape' augment for pseudopodia mouths? That's where I got it from. Yeah, I know about the separation by type thing, but I was too lazy to do it.

  30. - Top - End - #510
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    @Gideon Falcon: Not sure where you got the "25% chance of evading any attack that doesn't affect an area". Unless that has to do with some part of reflex saves that I'm not aware of.

    Owrtho
    Flowing Shape(4)+Pseudopodea+(4)+Large Mouthx4(8)=16 form points for 25% chance to dodge any non-area effects that target their square.

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