Tooth and Tentacle [base class PEACH]

[Milskidasith]

The mouth abilities are worded strangely, and I'm not sure if it's intentional or not.

Devour can only be used if the creature is bigger than the mouth, which is nonsensical, and swallow whole can be used on any creature, no matter the size, provided the mouth isn't bigger than the ozodrin, so a halfling shrunk person ozodrin, with an effectively diminutive mouth bite attack that just deals 1 damage, can swallow whole a titan.

However... that's irrelevant when, at level 20 with a decent stat mod and a couple of aberrant feats, can get a mouth attack 30 sizes bigger than themselves, which has base damage... absurd.

[Apalala]

Oi. Totally didn't see that part about getting THREE TIMES your class levels and etc in form points. That quickly gets ridiculous.

Anyways, I was thinking about devour. When you think of an interdimensional monster devouring people whole, you don't think of it as it being a struggle or a long, drawn out process. You think of it as something sickeningly quick and terrifying.

So, here's my idea for Devour.

Devour (Su): Your mouths open to an extra-dimensional pocket that makes up your digestive track. As a result you are able to devour creatures that get too close. As a standard action, you may attempt to devour any creature within your square. Make an attack roll, and on a success, if the target creature has HP equal to your class level times your charisma modifier (CL*CHA), it is instantly devoured and you gain temporary hp equal to half your class level times your charisma modifier (1/2CL*CHA). This temporary hp may not be healed and fades away after an extended rest. If the target has more than CL*CHA HP remaining, it is dealt damage as though you had made a successful bite attack. This ability may be used at will, but the temporary hp gained from it does not stack with itself.

Much easier to go with in play, quite a bit more balanced, and the flavor seems a bit more frightening and cool, in my opinion. I would think it'd be a first level ability as well, if only to give them something at first level to play with.

[Milskidasith]

Oh yeah, I forgot, 20 handing weapons is easily possible and allows you to get 10.5x your strength mod to attacks and, if I recall correctly, 20x on power attack. I'm not sure about the latter, but the former is definitely true.

[Owrtho]

Well, at first level, you could (not counting some off race I don't know of), get 11 form points (3 for class level, 4 for charisma modifier, 2 for aberrant feats, and 2 for Farspawn feat). That could grant at least +3 to AC. Also now that I look at it, the insightful eyes should grant an attack bonus, not AC (I'll change that shortly). That said, a first level ozodrin isn't that strong. It can help cause enemies to be shaken though.
Might give Aberrant blood as a bonus feat first level.

Nothing happens when an ozodrin swallows a bag of holding. The extra-dimensional pocket is not actually so much another dimension, as it is their nature warping existence to make their inside larger than their outside. As such anything that is limited to the plane your on can work between their stomach and the outside world. It's also why cutting your way out makes you come out of the ozodrin and not some random plane.

Devour can only be used on bigger creatures as it is actually eating it as you swallow it, and is difficult to do with smaller things (managing to chew off a portion while holding it with you mouth and not letting it get out when the piece comes off).

The swallow whole effect was badly worded, and requires the creature is not bigger than the mouth, not the mouth bigger than the ozodrin (swallowing a colossal creature would require that you have a colossal mouth, which for a medium sized creature requires 17 points just for the mouth and increasing its size).

I'll admit the devour ability is somewhat convoluted. I may go with something like what you have, but part of the fun is about being able to just go up at the start of an encounter with a gigantic monster and be decide to devour it right off the bat. Also the devouring's success should in part be based on the size of the mouth relative to the creature.
I'd also been going for how often movies and the like that have someone being eaten will show the person being pulled in and give the people a chance to futilely grasp at his hand and try to pull him back before he is lost. (and being able to one shot weaker creatures could be bad if there is no limit, as it is, with that ability a level 2 ozodrin with a racial bonus of 2 to charisma could automatically kill anything with less than 10 hp, which constitutes most fodder type enemies, and would be capable of having at least 5 mouths though the way yours is worded that isn't a huge issue as you can only make 1 devour attempt a turn).
Don't forget that with the current devour, you could have multiple mouths eating the same creature, and as it just requires making a grapple, you can use Coiling Tentacles to get more than 1 devour started a turn.

Also, how could you 20 hand a weapon? There isn't room on the handle. Still there are reasons they aren't proficient with many weapons.

Owrtho

[Milskidasith]

Also, how could you 20 hand a weapon? There isn't room on the handle. Still there are reasons they aren't proficient with many weapons.

Owrtho

It's the rules, they don't have to make sense. How can you have a colossal++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ mouth on a medium creature?The rules are the rules; you have enough hands, you can wield the weapon, and you get .5x to strength extra for each hand.

[Owrtho]

The size of it's stomach shows it's clearly more than capable of warping dimensions (as in lengths and the like, not planes of existence or the like), as it needs to for properly fitting itself in reality.
Also, that would require 107 form points for a mouth that size. As a human with 18 starting charisma that puts all points into charisma, and takes all aberrant feats, including Farspawn 3 times, and deepspawn, at level 20 you could only have 60 from your class, 30 from aberrant feats (8 x 3 + 6), and 6 from your charisma modifier, totaling to 96. You can't get a mouth that big pre epic (this doesn't take into account form points from items that boost charisma but that would require +22 charisma from the items).

Owrtho

[Apalala]

and being able to one shot weaker creatures could be bad if there is no limit, as it is, with that ability a level 2 ozodrin with a racial bonus of 2 to charisma could automatically kill anything with less than 10 hp, which constitutes most fodder type enemies, and would be capable of having at least 5 mouths though the way yours is worded that isn't a huge issue as you can only make 1 devour attempt a turn).
Owrtho

Not automatically. It would still require a successful attack roll.

edit- Oh yeah, and you still have to be in the same square as your target (though that requirement could be bought off with features). And the flavor of slowly dragging in a target is retained to an extent since an unsuccessful attempt still deals a good bit of damage.

[Sereg]

I must admit that I'm excited to see a class that let's me play as someone whom can choose his own body shape which is a concept I've had for many years before I started playing. A couple of ideas to consider, the ability to change size, a venomous sting and/or bite, the ability to squeeze through smll spaces, a breath weapon, constriction, alternate movement options, natural armour, spikes which are treated as armour spikes in graple checks, a tail club, damage reduction, rake, pounce, other skill bonuses, improved grab and fast movement. I'll try think of others.

[Apalala]

I must admit that I'm excited to see a class that let's me play as someone whom can choose his own body shape which is a concept I've had for many years before I started playing. A couple of ideas to consider, the ability to change size, a venomous sting and/or bite, the ability to squeeze through smll spaces, a breath weapon, constriction, alternate movement options, natural armour, spikes which are treated as armour spikes in graple checks, a tail club, damage reduction, rake, pounce, other skill bonuses, improved grab and fast movement. I'll try think of others.

There is always the option of playing as an Eidolon.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/site/pathfin...aytest-version

[Milskidasith]

The size of it's stomach shows it's clearly more than capable of warping dimensions (as in lengths and the like, not planes of existence or the like), as it needs to for properly fitting itself in reality.
Also, that would require 107 form points for a mouth that size. As a human with 18 starting charisma that puts all points into charisma, and takes all aberrant feats, including Farspawn 3 times, and deepspawn, at level 20 you could only have 60 from your class, 30 from aberrant feats (8 x 3 + 6), and 6 from your charisma modifier, totaling to 96. You can't get a mouth that big pre epic (this doesn't take into account form points from items that boost charisma but that would require +22 charisma from the items).

Owrtho

It's worded ambiguously, because it looks as if you get triple your points of charisma and triple your aberrant feats. (Triple X+X+X looks a lot like 3x (X+X+X)). If you didn't intend that, change the wording, please, because the way it reads, you get 18 points from a +6 mod.

Even then, the actual size doesn't matter... tone it down four sizes, you can still use it even your way, and it's still absurd. You've still got enough to 20 hand weapons, which is also broken. I don't understand why you're arguing over how your mouth can't be an exact size when the point was basically that your mouth will one shot anything it hits and you can almost ignore charisma and still have more than enough hands to one shot stuff with an absurd strength modifier.

[UserShadow7989]

In response to the 20 hand weapon deal, maybe make it so only one tentacle/whatever can hold a weapon at a time, with an extra point buy allowing more tentacles to hold their own/the same weapon?

Honestly, that seems to fall under the DM's authority to veto, in the same way that by the rules you can break a gp into thirds and craft each third into it's own gp.

Ignoring balance for now, I love what I see of the fluff and abilities so far.

[Owrtho]

It's worded ambiguously, because it looks as if you get triple your points of charisma and triple your aberrant feats. (Triple X+X+X looks a lot like 3x (X+X+X)). If you didn't intend that, change the wording, please, because the way it reads, you get 18 points from a +6 mod.

Even then, the actual size doesn't matter... tone it down four sizes, you can still use it even your way, and it's still absurd. You've still got enough to 20 hand weapons, which is also broken. I don't understand why you're arguing over how your mouth can't be an exact size when the point was basically that your mouth will one shot anything it hits and you can almost ignore charisma and still have more than enough hands to one shot stuff with an absurd strength modifier.

I fixed the wording of the form points. As for the previous way, if one followed the order of operations, it would come out as I said it (3 x X + Y + Z = 3X+Y+Z), but I can see how it might be misinterpreted. As for the 20handing weapons, I've made a simple solution to fix that. They can't use more than 2 limbs to hold a single weapon. This means at most they could 4 hand a weapon (using their normal arms and 2 limbs).

Owrtho

[Sereg]

There is always the option of playing as an Eidolon.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/site/pathfin...aytest-version

Thank you for pointing that out. It is both interesting and a good souce of ideas for this. However, playing an Eidolon requires a certain type of campaign, which, while fun, is not the kind of thing that you can expect in a standard campaign.

[Magikeeper]

Strange Movement: First, this sounds like a supernatural ability to me. Besides that, I would change the limit to 10’ or even 20' per class level per day (with the hiding ability taking 10’/20' instead of 5’). Right now the ability can maybe be used once or twice a day – 35ft isn’t very far. The only reason to give such a tiny allotment is to limit teleporting through walls – which can be more directly solved by requiring line-of-sight to the destination if that is an issue.


Suggestions for the dead levels:

Form changes:
> Wings/fins/burrowing/etc [Level 9?]

Spoiler

Show

Example: (Mostly because it was fun to make):
Basic Fins – Cost 2
Appearance: You have a large fin somewhere on your body.
Required Level: 9
Benefits: You gain a +2 circumstance modifier on swim checks for each fin. If you have two or more fins you also gain a swim speed of 10ft. This speed increases by 10ft for each additional pair of fins. The fin counts as one size category smaller than yourself.
Special: An ozodrin with this ability can take feats that require a swim, burrow, or fly speed of any maneuverability as though they possessed such a speed. If you have the aberrant feat waterspawn you may use this ability but not its augments before level 9. The swim speed stacks with any swim speed you already have.
Augments:
Violent fin: Additional cost 1: You can make a slam attack with your fin as a secondary natural weapon (a medium fin deals 1d6 damage + one half strength modifier, use the standard table for adjusting damage die to calculate other sizes). A digging fin is instead treated as a secondary claw attack (same damage).
Wide Fin: Additional cost 2
Your fin is effectively a size category larger. This reduces the granted circumstance modifier by 1 but increases your swim speed by 10ft (if you have one). You may add this multiple times to the same fin. The effects stack, and you may gain a negative modifier.
Wing: Additional cost 3
Your fin is instead a wing, granting a bonus to jump checks instead of swim checks and a flight speed instead of a swim speed (Clumsy maneuverability).
Special: Your fly speed stacks with any flight speed you already posses. Use the worst maneuverability of the two unless the other fly speed is granted by the aberrant feat Starspawn (in which case you use the better of the two).
Digging Fin: Additional cost 4
Your fin gains claws suitable for shoveling soil and dirt, granting you a bonus on climb checks instead of swim checks and a burrow speed instead of a swim speed. The granted burrow speed is one half what the granted swim speed would be (I.E. 5ft per two digging fins).
Special: The burrow speed stacks with any burrow speed you already posses.
Mystic Fin: Additional cost 1
Required level 11: Your fin is enhanced with supernatural power, granting an additional +2 circumstance bonus to swim checks. Your flight maneuverability improves by one category for every two wings with this ability. Up to 5ft of your burrowing speed per two mystic digging fins can be applied to any material with hardness of 19 or less.

Yeah, the climb check bonus is pretty random. I couldn't think of anything else the digging fin might possibily be good for.



> Skin (Color, Natural Armor, Slippery, Etc)
> Feet (Move Speed, Maybe just as an addition to ‘limbs’?)

[Apalala]

Thank you for pointing that out. It is both interesting and a good souce of ideas for this. However, playing an Eidolon requires a certain type of campaign, which, while fun, is not the kind of thing that you can expect in a standard campaign.

I don't see how an eidolon is much different from an ozodrin with the leadership feat.

[Symmys]

Does the ozodrin have an advantage when encountering eldritch horrors? 'Advantage' as in 'mind does not immediately break into many small pieces'.

[InfiniteNothing]

Hello?

Don't tell me this class is dead already. The concept's a rather good one, and so far so are the mechanics.

[Owrtho]

Not dead. Just had to write an essay. I'll likely try getting some more done on this and the ethercaster this weekend.

Owrtho

[Chainsaw Hobbit]

This is just too cool !
I may actually play one!

[Owrtho]

Added basic version of the puppet. Might get some changes.

Owrtho

[Magikeeper]

So, I’ve encounted a problem while creating hypothetical PCs and NPCs with this class : Way too many possible attacks. It is trivial to have 6 tentacle attacks at level 3.

(Cha 20; Farspawn, Deepspawn, Aberrant blood) 3*3 = 9 + 5 cha + 6 deepspawn + 1 Farspawn + 3 abberrant feats = 18/3 = 6.)

And if you play, say, a middle-aged strongheart Halfling you would could have
(Cha 20; Farspawn x 2, Deepspawn, Aberration blood) 3*3 = 9 + 5 cha + 6 deepspawn + 4 Farspawn + 4 abberrant feats = 28 -> 27/3 = 9.)

9 tentacle attacks at level 3. At level 10 you could form 10 tentacles without using any feats or Cha bonus at all. 20 attacks at that level would not be very hard. And then you have the double digit gaze attacks at level 11.

Basically, who would augment these attacks when it is more effective to just make as many as possible (and maybe find a way to get pounce)?

I think the feature description should add “The Ozodrin is proficient with all features and can use them like normal natural weapons. Unlike normal natural weapons, an Ozodrin’s features do not grant attacks beyond those acquired from a high base attack bonus”. At which point the class is given full BAB.

Later on the Ozodrin could gain perfect two-weapon fighting with features and at very high levels some kind of special ability that lets them attack with every feature they have formed as a full-round action.

[Owrtho]

Well, the lack of full BAB is because the ozodrin uses the same BAB, saves, and HD as an aberration. As such they won't gain HD. Similarly, it is in part intentional that an ozodrin can have a number of attacks compaired to a normal character. However, it should likely have something to avoid making it too powerful. As such I'll try figuring something out. Perhaps each attack gets a cumulative -1 to damage that lasts for a full attack (so if using tentacles, the first deals 1d4 + str mod, second deals 1d4 + str mod -1, third deals 1d4 + str mod - 2, etc.). Then again, that might not fix the problem.
Also, I'd point out that DR would be a good reason to improve tentacles rather than just make a lot.

Owrtho

[DracoDei]

Magic Fang, Greater lets you get all of them through DR/Magic, and I think there is an "align natural weapon" sort of spell in some splat-book which if it can effect all natural weapons on a creature would help out with that... DR/(Cold Iron, Silver, Adamintine) would be even more challenging.

All of this is just FWIW.

[Magikeeper]

Well, the lack of full BAB is because the ozodrin uses the same BAB, saves, and HD as an aberration. As such they won't gain HD. Similarly, it is in part intentional that an ozodrin can have a number of attacks compaired to a normal character. However, it should likely have something to avoid making it too powerful. As such I'll try figuring something out. Perhaps each attack gets a cumulative -1 to damage that lasts for a full attack (so if using tentacles, the first deals 1d4 + str mod, second deals 1d4 + str mod -1, third deals 1d4 + str mod - 2, etc.). Then again, that might not fix the problem.
Also, I'd point out that DR would be a good reason to improve tentacles rather than just make a lot.

Owrtho

DR isn't common at level 3, and DR/magic is easy to overcome. Now, the other DRs are harder but don't come into play until higher levels. At which point you make a bunch of arms and wield an armory of the correct type.

The issue is too many attacks too early. And later on the Ozodrin is making so many attacks that the game grinds to a halt. So the solution should be to limit the number of attacks in some way.

Also, the eyes appear to be automatic. I’m not sure people would think they are effected by DR (are they?). And even so, there are a number of ways you could auto-deal 100+ damage to every enemy without DR in a 60ft cone that doesn’t divert their eyes in time. I think the gaze should be an action of some kind. Maybe a swift action? Or maybe a creature is only effected by one of your gaze attacks each round (you choose if it is hit by more than one). That would allow multiple constant gazes but prevent the crazy stacking.

Perhaps you could only attack with a number of features per round equal to one-half your class level + 2 (minimum 2). That way a 10th level Ozodrin could control 7 tentacles. Or a level 4 Ozodrin could control 4. I think the special eyes would be a special exception, as could the puppet. Basically the tentacles/limbs/mouths need a restriction. The Ozodrin would still be able to make more attacks than the normal not-a-thri-keen PC.

I do hope the class gains a way to form wings and stuff (although I liked my suggestion :P).

[Owrtho]

Was considering an idea along those lines for limiting attacks. Alternatively, how do you think it would be if it was +1/2 charisma mod instead (min 2). Would allow for them to have ways of getting more attacks, but be somewhat less powerful than other possibilities (and odds are that an ozodrin will have 18 charisma at least).
Might then make it so that buds gain a single attack, and something for puppets and gaze attacks. These wouldn't include attacks of opportunity. Lure Traps would also be separate as they'd be along the lines of specially triggered attacks that must then be reset (though they might then act like normal buds).
Special actions or augments may be made to increase number of attacks (such as 5 on a blunt tentacle to allow another attack each turn from features on it).

I might think about doing wings, but the inspiration didn't have them (hence why they haven't been added yet).

Also how do gaze attacks normally work? I'd been under the impression they counted as normal attacks, but has a range, could be blocked by not looking, and often did special effects rather than damage (might be missing something).

Owrtho

[Kallisti]

You could add an ability to "de-form" completely. There's already an Amorphous Body spell in Spell Compendium (I think), so you could just steal that, or make up your own rules for it. I think it would fit well with the idea of a shapeshifting cosmic horror, although your inspiration seems to be a little more specific than that.

Just out of curiosity, how did you come up with the name "ozodrin?"

[Magikeeper]

Was considering an idea along those lines for limiting attacks. Alternatively, how do you think it would be if it was +1/2 charisma mod instead (min 2). Would allow for them to have ways of getting more attacks, but be somewhat less powerful than other possibilities (and odds are that an ozodrin will have 18 charisma at least).

I though about this. It would take a truly huge charisma to have a bunch of attacks. The only issue is that it could result in an Ozodrin making less attacks than other PCs (3 attacks = Cha 22, 4 = Cha 26, 5 = Cha 30). Granted, many PCs will be able to hit that total… What if it was ½ cha mod (minimum 2 + 1/6 class level)? Kinda strange, but it would work I guess. I wouldn't want to simply add more attacks as many PCs will be hitting 30+ Cha.

I might think about doing wings, but the inspiration didn't have them (hence why they haven't been added yet).

Aww. I liked my fin idea.

Also how do gaze attacks normally work? I'd been under the impression they counted as normal attacks, but has a range, could be blocked by not looking, and often did special effects rather than damage (might be missing something).

You can focus your gaze on someone as an attack action. However, unless otherwise noted, your gaze attack is constantly active unless you “turn it off”. Each opponent must save at the start of each turn (or in this case, just take damage).

[Owrtho]

I though about this. It would take a truly huge charisma to have a bunch of attacks. The only issue is that it could result in an Ozodrin making less attacks than other PCs (3 attacks = Cha 22, 4 = Cha 26, 5 = Cha 30). Granted, many PCs will be able to hit that total… What if it was ½ cha mod (minimum 2 + 1/6 class level)? Kinda strange, but it would work I guess. I wouldn't want to simply add more attacks as many PCs will be hitting 30+ Cha.

I meant in addition to the 1/2 class level (instead of the strait +2)

As for the fins and wings, I'll think about it, but not certain yet.
Also, would it seem odd if an ozodrin didn't get penalties if doing things while grappling provided they have enough limbs?

I'll try to figure out something with the gaze attacks. Perhaps a limit on how many can be active, with the ability to change one at a time as a swift action. Also will add a save on the damage, likely reflex or fort.

Owrtho

[Magikeeper]

I meant in addition to the 1/2 class level (instead of the strait +2)

At level 4 you could have a cha 22 which would be .5*4 + 6/2 = 2 + 3 = 5 attacks. At level 2 this would be 4 attacks instead, and at level 6 it would be 6 attacks. Cha 26 at level 8 would be 4 + 4 = 8 attacks. If that sounds okay, then its fine. The fringe case of level 4 PCs with a cha of 28 is not a big issue. Cha 22 at start is probably the high-end for most parties that are not taking an LA hit. Cha 24 isn’t that hard though. The poor Ozodrin with a cha of 16 would like the class scaling aspect.

Also, would it seem odd if an ozodrin didn't get penalties if doing things while grappling provided they have enough limbs?

Well, grappling is already its own mini-game rules nightmare. What actions? They should have an easy time dealing damage as a ball of limbs, moving the opponent shouldn't be effected, pinning wouldn't be hindered by having a billion limbs... attacking your opponent with their own weapon? Covering their mouth? Dealing unarmed strike damage?

[Tome]

The concept for this class seems incredibly interesting. And by 'incredibly interesting' I mean 'holy **** that looks awesome'.

I'm looking forward to seeing how this turns out. And then seeing if I can talk someone into letting me play one. :D