Tooth and Tentacle [base class PEACH]

[Owrtho]

Well, grappling is already its own mini-game rules nightmare. What actions? They should have an easy time dealing damage as a ball of limbs, moving the opponent shouldn't be effected, pinning wouldn't be hindered by having a billion limbs... attacking your opponent with their own weapon? Covering their mouth? Dealing unarmed strike damage?

I was talking about doing things unrelated to the grapple, such as maintaining the grapple and attacking someone else while not doing anything to the person grappled besides keeping them that way, or if the want to try it, grappling another person at the same time. It seems to me that it would make sense they wouldn't have trouble from a realistic standpoint (they have a ton of limbs and the coordination to use them), but not quite sure from a balance standpoint (as most creatures can't do much while grappling without a huge penalty due to a dearth of free limbs).

Also, would it make the most sense to explain their attack limit under the features before going into specific ones?
Also, considering the way the moves work, would it make more sense to swap when they gain swallow whole and devour?

Owrtho

[ryleah]

I love(craft) this class! It should definitely get some bonus' to ranged trip with all of those tentacles though. Also, I would make it so you only gain the fast heal from one creature in your stomach at a time, lest you find your players swallowing twenty bag's of tricks to give themselves fast heal 100 for 5 rounds ten times per week.

[Owrtho]

Well, they currently don't gain fast heal from anything. They can however heal while actively devouring something, but it is delayed 2 rounds.

Owrtho

[Bhu]

I must again say it: this is just too kewl

[Owrtho]

Not really an update to the class (been busy), but I added an alternate fluff for the class under adaptation.

Owrtho

[The Anarresti]

I'm going to be (hopefully) playing this class pretty soon on a pbp game. So, if you want, I let you know how it pans out. Also, I love this class, so I want to beg you to finish putting in all the stuff you want, like the psychological horror bit.

[The Anarresti]

If this guy is a melee fighter, wouldn't it make more sense to give him full BAB and d10 hit die?
EDIT: And I think you should definatly have a fear gaze attack as one of the alternate gaze attack abilities (DC=10+1/2 Ozodrin level + Cha modifier)

[Owrtho]

If this guy is a melee fighter, wouldn't it make more sense to give him full BAB and d10 hit die?

I've addressed this before, but the BAB, HD, and saves are the same as if one gained aberration HD.

I likely should add some more gaze attacks.

Owrtho

[Tome]

I've addressed this before, but the BAB, HD, and saves are the same as if one gained aberration HD.

I'd advise against tying yourself to this idea. Give it the saves/BAB/HD it should have as a PC, not as if it were a monster. Monster HD isn't tied to CR, and thus the types that need that BAB can always have a few extra HD to make it up, whereas PC character level is tied directly to their ECL, and thus cannot.

[InfiniteNothing]

Okay, I may be committing thread necromancy, but this class is too good to let die half-finished.

I agree, Owrtho, you should start working on the gaze attacks. Maybe some sort of hypnotizing one? Causes some form of stun or daze effect to simulate the target being mesmerized?

I'll see if I can come up with any class features to fill the dead levels.

[Owrtho]

Haven't meant to let the class die. Unfortunately I've been busy with other stuff and also tried to put some life back into some of my other projects (speaking of which, I suggest taking a look at the ethereal magic in my signature and giving feedback on it). I'll try to get some work done on the gaze attacks though sometime this week.

Owrtho

[InfiniteNothing]

Alright, I might take a look at that later.

Anyways, two class feature ideas. First, giving the ozodrin a miss chance/concealment when in their manifesed form due to the space around them no longer subscribing to Euclidian(?) geometry.

Second, being able to summon/create pseudonatural creatures to aid in a fight,

OR

Leadership as a bonus feat to represent a group of insane cultists serving the ozodrin.

[Owrtho]

First one sounds like it might be good. The second doesn't quite seem to work, but there is already the puppet feature so you could 'make' monsters.

Owrtho

[InfiniteNothing]

True, but if the puppet 'dies' the character suffers for it.

Okay, I'm pretty sure this has been suggested before, but what about bonus abberant feats? Say, one at level 2 and then one every three levels after that?

[InfiniteNothing]

Okay, sorry for the double post, but Owrtho, man, will you please update the class? Even just a little?

Also, another idea for a special eye power: A ray or gaze attack that causes madness. Whether this is a confusion or insanity effect or straight Wisdom damage I'll leave up to you.

[Owrtho]

Well I'd like people to give feedback on ethereal magic, but we can't all get what we want.

Lucky for you, you do get what you want. Check the first post. Give feedback.

Owrtho

[Lix Lorn]

I really really like this!
(I'd look at the twilight casting, but I don't really know where to start)

A couple of things,

is a 5% chance per class level (counting up to a maximum of max Dex bonus to AC class levels)

The bit in the brackets is really confusing. Also, why Dex?
Why not (The number of class levels counted for this ability may not exceed your Dex bonus to AC)?

Also, you get penalised for eating things, cause you get no loot. Can't you like, recover things from your tract like it's a bag of holding?

Snrk. 'I take the dead goblin's sword form my Digestive Tract of Holding.'

[Owrtho]

I really really like this!
(I'd look at the twilight casting, but I don't really know where to start)

Well, you could look at the mist forms, but I can see how it might be hard to balance without trying to play it (due to the rather different cost of casting spells and their range).

The bit in the brackets is really confusing. Also, why Dex?
Why not (The number of class levels counted for this ability may not exceed your Dex bonus to AC)?

Actually your own Dex score doesn't affect this at all. If you look, it refers to what your armour states is the maximum Dex bonus. Thus if you have 10 Dex, and an armour with a maximum Dex bonus to AC of 5, it will count 5 levels, even though your Dex modifier is 0. If you had 18 Dex it would be the same. The reason is that the armour constrains your ability to avoid the extra damage by warping your anatomy.

Also, you get penalised for eating things, cause you get no loot. Can't you like, recover things from your tract like it's a bag of holding?

Snrk. 'I take the dead goblin's sword form my Digestive Tract of Holding.'

You actually already can (sorta), though I'd forgotten to make not of it in the Devour ability as that part hadn't been typed up at the time. The explanation of it is under the swallow whole ability. If you devour something, it might drop loot (though the chance is lowered), but it would be in your stomach rather than the ground. However you can't reach it yourself, so something else would have to go in after it. Unfortunately if they don't do so fast enough it might be digested and broken down, thus the chance that there will be loot there decreases over time. I might increase the starting percent though (maybe up to 70% or 80%).

Of course that could lead to all kinds of akward innuendo when asking people to retrieve it.
But that can't be helped. "Care to plunder my depths brave sir knight?"

Owrtho

[Lix Lorn]

Actually your own Dex score doesn't affect this at all. If you look, it refers to what your armour states is the maximum Dex bonus. Thus if you have 10 Dex, and an armour with a maximum Dex bonus to AC of 5, it will count 5 levels, even though your Dex modifier is 0. If you had 18 Dex it would be the same. The reason is that the armour constrains your ability to avoid the extra damage by warping your anatomy.
Aaah. Still needs clarifyinh, I think...

You actually already can (sorta), though I'd forgotten to make not of it in the Devour ability as that part hadn't been typed up at the time. The explanation of it is under the swallow whole ability. If you devour something, it might drop loot (though the chance is lowered), but it would be in your stomach rather than the ground. However you can't reach it yourself, so something else would have to go in after it. Unfortunately if they don't do so fast enough it might be digested and broken down, thus the chance that there will be loot there decreases over time. I might increase the starting percent though (maybe up to 70% or 80%).
Kay, makes sense.

Of course that could lead to all kinds of akward innuendo when asking people to retrieve it.
But that can't be helped. "Care to plunder my depths brave sir knight?"
Isn't that a positive?

Stupidten.

[Closak]

Hmm, interesting.

You know, if i ever even attempted to stat out "Master" he would probably have a bunch of levels in this.

What with him being an Eldritch Abomination and all...

Just throw in a bunch of...well, a LOT of other stuff and you start getting close.

But enough about that.

Like i said, this class seems interesting.

Haha, very funny Lix.

[Lix Lorn]

Haha, very funny Lix.

Haha. He thinks I'm joking.

[Closak]

Yes, i know you are serious.

...Kinda amusing actually

Warning, little bit of info about unbeatable horror from beyond below.

Spoiler

Show

"When his turn ends Master may roll a D20, if he get's anywhere between 2-20 he skips everyone's turn and goes again, your turn only comes if he rolls a 1 on this roll"

Combine that with the ability to cast all spells in existence and the capability to create new spells at will and then cast them in the same round...

Also, Alter Reality.

And automatic success on all saves, no matter what.

And that's just the start of it.

[Lix Lorn]

He'd fail his will save vs seduction. Everyone does, eventually...

Okay, now lets stop being offtopic. Go to PMs if we have to keep going.

[InfiniteNothing]

You might want to correct stupefying gaze. Right now it says that it deals Constitution damage.

Why limit the number of active special eyes? I thought the form points were there to do that.

Okay, this is something I've noticed only recently. "A puppet requires a tentacle with the blunt ability at least 1 2 sizes larger than the creature you wish to duplicate, and with a length a minimum length of 15'+ (5' for every size category bigger than small it is)." I'm sorry, what? You might want to fix that so it's clearly understandable.

The lure trap... Yikes. Looks good, but I definately don't want to be on the receiving end of that sucker. *shudders*

Okay, on the strange anatomy... forgive me, but why would the armor interfere, again? The organs could just shift and move around underneath it. I doubt armor would affect it that much when it apparantly isn't hampered by little things like a ribcage or an internal (or external, if you're playing something like a thri-kreen) skeleton. At worst, I think deducting 10% per point of Armor Check Penalty on the armor would be fair.

And on other topics... I don't have a clue about what to make of the ethereal casters. When I have a better idea of what I'm looking at, I'll review it. Just be patient until then.

[Owrtho]

You might want to correct stupefying gaze. Right now it says that it deals Constitution damage.

Ah, missed that. Fixed.

Why limit the number of active special eyes? I thought the form points were there to do that.

Based on what others have said, as gaze attacks they would automatically go off on any creature in 60' cone each round. If it isn't in some way limited, then you could just make only normal special eyes and deal hundreds of damage each round. Then again, I might go with something like what they suggested and make it so you choose which affects a creature each round and have that number limited (I'd forgotten that part of the conversation).

Okay, this is something I've noticed only recently. "A puppet requires a tentacle with the blunt ability at least 1 2 sizes larger than the creature you wish to duplicate, and with a length a minimum length of 15'+ (5' for every size category bigger than small it is)." I'm sorry, what? You might want to fix that so it's clearly understandable.

I think I fixed it. The 1 and parenthesise were typos.

The lure trap... Yikes. Looks good, but I definately don't want to be on the receiving end of that sucker. *shudders*

Glad you like it.

Okay, on the strange anatomy... forgive me, but why would the armor interfere, again? The organs could just shift and move around underneath it. I doubt armor would affect it that much when it apparantly isn't hampered by little things like a ribcage or an internal (or external, if you're playing something like a thri-kreen) skeleton. At worst, I think deducting 10% per point of Armor Check Penalty on the armor would be fair.

Well there are a few reasons. First, the armour itself can cause trouble (such as an attack causing some of it to push into them). Second, I figured there should be some kind of penalty for wearing armour. I did it the way I chose, as I didn't want to penalize players at early levels where they need the armour and the ability isn't strong enough on its own. I suppose I could go with the armour check penalty, but would likely need to have it reduce from 100%.

And on other topics... I don't have a clue about what to make of the ethereal casters. When I have a better idea of what I'm looking at, I'll review it. Just be patient until then.

It seems a lot of people have that opinion.

Owrtho

[Magikeeper]

Dazzling Gaze: Right now, Dazzling Eye is far stronger than any of the others. Dazing an opponent for 1d4 rounds is FAR stronger than 2 points of con damage, much less 1. If your opponents are failing enough saves for ability damage to matter, the daze would be far more effective. Will save VS being unable to take actions for 1d4 rounds? That triggers every round unless they close their eyes or avert their gaze? Failing 2 saves against the con eye will result in -1 to fort saves and deal ‘HD’ damage. Failing 2 saves vs the dazzling eye takes the enemy out of the battle for 2d4 rounds (~5 rounds), which at the level you get the eyes is often more than enough time to do whatever you want to an opponent. The eye could daze for 1 round, no chance of extra time for very low saves, and it would still be an awesome ability that would only be okay because people could avert their gaze or otherwise limit its power. 1d4 rounds is incredibly overpowered. Also, it should cost more than the other non-charm gaze attacks as it beats the crap out of all of them. 6 points for a save vs 1 round of being dazed is still very strong. I would use it.

Frightful Gaze: This has no listed duration?

Penetrating gaze: I suggest this should only boost damage and ability damage. Or at least it shouldn’t effect dazzling gaze.

Silencing Gaze: I think this should cost 2 points or have a longer duration (1d4 minutes?).

Various ability damage gazes : These seem somewhat… slow. Maybe the base damage could be 2 points?


--------------

Devoured: Okay, I think you should be able to spit out all of the loot. Lets say you have a spell that grapples a creature, and if they fail a bunch of increasingly difficult grapple checks they die. This spell has a 1000gp material component. Would you actually cast this waste of money? That’s what devour is like at higher levels. At high levels enemies might have thousands of gp worth of loot on them, all wasted by the ozodrin. The party wouldn’t ever want the ozodrin to use this ability – it wastes money. I imagine they might even get mad about it. I suggest it start out being an 100% chance of getting the loot back, then -5% per round. Also, the Ozododrin should be able to “Throw up” as a free action. That would have the added benefit of allowing you to decide “Maybe I won’t eat you after all”. Free action is because you might have a lot of mouths.

Swalloed whole: So, this is a dimensional space. I don’t think they should be able to cut their way out. But if you disagree, I would suggest the following stats for the stomach:

AC: 10 + 2x class level (rounded down)
Damage needed: 5x class level

So at level 10 an enemy would need to deal 50 damage to the wall (AC 30).
At level 20 an enemy would need to deal 100 damage to the wall (AC 50).
^ A bit weak, actually. Perhaps the wall has hardness equal to your class level or something…

The climb skill talks about different surface types: Just pick one.

Edit: Y'know, maybe 3x class level for the AC and 10x class level for the HP would be a better idea.

[Owrtho]

These seem to largely be good suggestions all around.

Dazzling Gaze: Right now, Dazzling Eye is far stronger than any of the others. Dazing an opponent for 1d4 rounds is FAR stronger than 2 points of con damage, much less 1. If your opponents are failing enough saves for ability damage to matter, the daze would be far more effective. Will save VS being unable to take actions for 1d4 rounds? That triggers every round unless they close their eyes or avert their gaze? Failing 2 saves against the con eye will result in -1 to fort saves and deal ‘HD’ damage. Failing 2 saves vs the dazzling eye takes the enemy out of the battle for 2d4 rounds (~5 rounds), which at the level you get the eyes is often more than enough time to do whatever you want to an opponent. The eye could daze for 1 round, no chance of extra time for very low saves, and it would still be an awesome ability that would only be okay because people could avert their gaze or otherwise limit its power. 1d4 rounds is incredibly overpowered. Also, it should cost more than the other non-charm gaze attacks as it beats the crap out of all of them. 6 points for a save vs 1 round of being dazed is still very strong. I would use it.

I'll make some of the changes. I'd not been thinking about how powerful daze is due to daze being a level 0 spell (I'd forgotten the HD limit). I'll lower duration to 1 round and make it have a higher minimum level as well as increasing the cost.

Frightful Gaze: This has no listed duration?

Always seem to forget that with fear effects. Not sure why. I think I'll go with 1d4 rounds.

Penetrating gaze: I suggest this should only boost damage and ability damage. Or at least it shouldn’t effect dazzling gaze.

I'll make note it doesn't effect daze.

Silencing Gaze: I think this should cost 2 points or have a longer duration (1d4 minutes?).

I'll change it to the lower cost. Main reason for the short duration is to avoid a caster potentially becoming useless for the combat if they get hit at the start and only have spells with verbal components.

Various ability damage gazes : These seem somewhat… slow. Maybe the base damage could be 2 points?

Good idea. I wasn't thinking about how minor the ability damage would be when it recovers as quickly on its own as this does.

Devoured: Okay, I think you should be able to spit out all of the loot. Lets say you have a spell that grapples a creature, and if they fail a bunch of increasingly difficult grapple checks they die. This spell has a 1000gp material component. Would you actually cast this waste of money? That’s what devour is like at higher levels. At high levels enemies might have thousands of gp worth of loot on them, all wasted by the ozodrin. The party wouldn’t ever want the ozodrin to use this ability – it wastes money. I imagine they might even get mad about it. I suggest it start out being an 100% chance of getting the loot back, then -5% per round. Also, the Ozododrin should be able to “Throw up” as a free action. That would have the added benefit of allowing you to decide “Maybe I won’t eat you after all”. Free action is because you might have a lot of mouths.

I'll increase the base chance to 100%. Not sure about automatically letting the ozodrin get it out, but was considering giving the option if they have a few limbs or tentacles inside their stomach.

Swalloed whole: So, this is a dimensional space. I don’t think they should be able to cut their way out. But if you disagree, I would suggest the following stats for the stomach:

AC: 10 + 2x class level (rounded down)
Damage needed: 5x class level

So at level 10 an enemy would need to deal 50 damage to the wall (AC 30).
At level 20 an enemy would need to deal 100 damage to the wall (AC 50).
^ A bit weak, actually. Perhaps the wall has hardness equal to your class level or something…

The climb skill talks about different surface types: Just pick one.

Well, the reason they can cut their way out is to avoid just being able to use swallow whole and then let things suffocate. I'll take your suggestion on the AC/class level (not sure why you said rounded down though). I think I'll make it hardness of 1/2 class level (rounded down) though.

Owrtho

[Magikeeper]

Well, the reason they can cut their way out is to avoid just being able to use swallow whole and then let things suffocate. I'll take your suggestion on the AC/class level (not sure why you said rounded down though).

Whoops. I had it at 2.5 at one point.

[Owrtho]

Made the changes. Added rules for escaping being swallowed whole.

Owrtho

[InfiniteNothing]

I'll increase the base chance to 100%. Not sure about automatically letting the ozodrin get it out, but was considering giving the option if they have a few limbs or tentacles inside their stomach.

Owrtho

Or maybe having a mouth opening beneath the loot, covered by a thinning flap of membrane until it finally gives way under the weight of the loot?

I'll see if I can find any other errors, at least in the writing if not the class mechanics. I'll also see if I can come up with anything useful for the class.