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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    How did I only just find this? This looks really interesting. I want to make one now. Wish I could have something constructive to say about its setup, but I am very bad at PEACHing, sorry.
    Avatar by CrimsonAngel, thanks again~

  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Well, at the moment there are 2 'dead' levels remaining for the ozodrin (the quotes are because it does actually gain augments those levels), and a few possible abilities to fill them. The issue though is that I'm uncertain which to use and in some cases what kind of rules to give them. Current ideas are as follows:
    • Your changes have warped your mind such that those who attempt to contact it are harmed. In short would cause harm to people attempting such things as mind control (like dominate monster or suggestion), enchantments that actually require they mentally contact you, or telepathy among other things. Not actually sure how it would be worded though.
    • Any image of you is treated as a part of you (including if someone tries to scry you). Often cosmic horrors are shown as being able to react to people trying to view them through magical means. Would let you sense when you're being scried, and possibly paintings of yourself (as well as other accurate images like illusions, videos, etc.) and treat them as a portion of your body for shifting features. Thus you could attack the person viewing you or move to them (if you have a shifting travelling tentacle).
    • Ability to segment off pieces of your body to perform tasks. Has some issues in what they could do without overly infringing on puppets. Likely would cost HP to make one with it having a temporary life span and limited ability to use features. Couldn't mimic a person and would be under your complete control (as it's a part of you).

    Other suggestions welcome. As are thoughts on what would best fit and suggestions on how to improve on any ideas mentioned.

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  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Well, I had this idea a few days ago, but I forgot it until last night and didn't have a chance to post it until now. It seems appropriate for the Ozodrin.

    Naught Morality: The ozodrin's mind has been warped to the point that it no longer has morals as they are perceived anywhere but the Far Realms. The ozodrin no longer has an alignment. It is always treated as having the most favorable alignment for the purposes of alignment-based effects (i.e., being treated as lawful for dictum, as good for a magic circle against evil, etc.).

  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    I absolutely LOVE the reaching through paintings/scryings of you... imagine a character looking through a book of legendary monsters, seeing a painted depiction of a tentacle-beast... then the tentacle-beast moves. It reaches a tentacle out of the page, and strangles the adventurer. That would be SO COOL.
    Last edited by Magicyop; 2010-09-06 at 03:33 PM.
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  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Caen'ir View Post
    How did I only just find this?
    Quote Originally Posted by Magicyop View Post
    I absolutely LOVE the reaching through paintings/scryings of you... imagine a character looking through a book of legendary monsters, seeing a painted depiction of a tentacle-beast... then the tentacle-beast moves. It reaches a tentacle out of the page, and strangles the adventurer. That would be SO COOL.
    Seconded and seconded. It would also be a good idea to explain that form points are invested like essentia rather than used like power points. At first I wasn't quite sure if they were a so-many-per-day thing or not.

    This whole thing is soooooo cool.
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  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Um, Arcanist? I think that is how they work. The points are just locked up until that feature is removed.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, Owrtho.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing View Post
    Um, Arcanist? I think that is how they work. The points are just locked up until that feature is removed.

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, Owrtho.
    I know, it's just a little unclear until you get to the "Features" description. I'd recommend making a note of it in the "Form Points" ability description.
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  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    That's correct, though I believe he was just saying he was initially confused as to how they worked, and that I should clarify it in the description.

    Also Magicyop, just think, that could actually be the hero reaching out of the painting.
    Actually, that could be a fun way for how two players meet in a high level game. Question is, should it be the level 18 or 19 ability?

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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    I think 19 (which would leave only 18 dead), it is a fairly powerful ability. (being able to sense scrying and depictions of you and attack out of them).
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  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    • Your changes have warped your mind such that those who attempt to contact it are harmed. In short would cause harm to people attempting such things as mind control (like dominate monster or suggestion), enchantments that actually require they mentally contact you, or telepathy among other things. Not actually sure how it would be worded though.
    • Any image of you is treated as a part of you (including if someone tries to scry you). Often cosmic horrors are shown as being able to react to people trying to view them through magical means. Would let you sense when you're being scried, and possibly paintings of yourself (as well as other accurate images like illusions, videos, etc.) and treat them as a portion of your body for shifting features. Thus you could attack the person viewing you or move to them (if you have a shifting travelling tentacle).
    • Ability to segment off pieces of your body to perform tasks. Has some issues in what they could do without overly infringing on puppets. Likely would cost HP to make one with it having a temporary life span and limited ability to use features. Couldn't mimic a person and would be under your complete control (as it's a part of you).

    I suggest inserting the "living picture" ability at level 19 and the "separate features" one at level 18, given their respective power. About the third one, the insanity inducing, it strikes me more as a sort of aberration racial trait. Given that, it could either be acquired with a feat after level 10, or directly as a part of the ozodrin transformation of that level, or as an add of the "Horror" ability.
    Great work until now, when it's finished I'm sure to go and play one!
    Last edited by Markus Darkmind; 2010-09-07 at 04:50 AM.

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Second for the Pictures and Separate Limbs abilities.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Darkmind View Post
    I suggest inserting the "living picture" ability at level 19 and the "separate features" one at level 18, given their respective power. About the third one, the insanity inducing, it strikes me more as a sort of aberration racial trait. Given that, it could either be acquired with a feat after level 10, or directly as a part of the ozodrin transformation of that level, or as an add of the "Horror" ability.
    Great work until now, when it's finished I'm sure to go and play one!
    I agree with everything here.
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  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Random thought, most of the Ozodrin's powers are based around changing shape. The Shapechanger subtype doesn't add anything the Aberration doesn't and works well thematically. So I propose the following change.
    Aberrant Nature (Ex): At level 10, an ozodrin's type changes to aberration and gains the shapechanger subtype. They are no longer affected by spells and abilities that can only affect humanoids. They gain darkvision out to 60 feet (this stacks with darkvision from other sources). The ozodrin stops ageing and can no longer die of old age. The ozodrin also becomes able to change features while manifesting its true nature instead of just when it isn't.
    It is however able to continue taking the Aberrant feats.
    Also I like the proposed dead level fillers.

  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    If you're adding shapechanger, then be sure to take a look at CW's Warshaper.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Not sure about adding the shapechanger subtype, though it might fit. Also, not sure how I would word the insanity inducing ability, so suggestions on that would be welcome. I'm also thinking it might fit to add the Naught Morality suggested ability at level 20, so thoughts on that would be welcome.

    As a side note, take a look at the first and third post if your interested in seeing a new basic eye augment, the sinister image ability, and the spawn feature (though they are subject to change).

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  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Hmm... Adding the Shapechanger subtype (say, at 10th level when the ozodrin becomes a true abberation) sounds approprite, but I'm pretty much 'meh' either way.

    No clue how to help you with the insanity-inducing thing.

    I think either level 19 or level 20 sounds good for Naught Morality.

    I was wondering if you were going to add something for enhanced hearing.

    Sinister Image... Jeez, all the ozodrin would have to do is lace his home with self-portraits and he's his own security system. I love it.

    Spawn... Good idea. Really good idea. However, you might want to increase the base hit points a bit. Right now it's little more than a scout/trap triggerer without the Robust augment. Multiplying the hit points of the spawn per hit point 'spent' by the ozodrin (say, five times?) might make it a good mook-killer/delaying tactic/decoy.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Not sure about adding the shapechanger subtype, though it might fit. Also, not sure how I would word the insanity inducing ability, so suggestions on that would be welcome. I'm also thinking it might fit to add the Naught Morality suggested ability at level 20, so thoughts on that would be welcome.

    As a side note, take a look at the first and third post if your interested in seeing a new basic eye augment, the sinister image ability, and the spawn feature (though they are subject to change).

    Owrtho
    About the insanity ability, take a look at the work of Krimm Blackleaf, he used something similar more than once... Or, you could look at the daelkir frojm the eberron campaign setting, that's got. something like that.

    Naught Morality at 20 seems ok, Probably it would be convenient to just change the name Horror into something morefitting (if necessary) and add that here, together with the insanity one if you want.

    Shapechanger subtype seems ok, don't know wheter it would be a good or bad thing for the ozodrin...

    Good job with the new augmentsand abilities, altought maybe the spawn could be a little stronger given it strips you of your hit points' total, but I may be wrong.

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Sinister Image, Spawn, and Sightless Eyes are excellent. I like Sinister Image best. I agree with the spawn thing though, you should give them 5 hit points for every hit point the Ozodrin spends. As it stands anything I create will die in a heartbeat.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Well, made a few minor changes as suggested. The Spawn now gains 5 hp per hp you lose when making it. As such I also increased the hp bonus given by robust spawn. I also slightly altered the wording on the max hp reduction to make it clear that your max hp is only reduced if the spawn costs 10 or more form points (so 0-9 form points would not reduce max hp, 10-19 reduce it by 1, 20-29 reduce it by 2, etc.).

    The idea of a ozodrin using self portraits has its home security system is somewhat funny. I could see someone walking in and just thinking he's vain. Also, the fact that you could add the shifting augment to a spawn means the ozodrin could just drop spawns out of its paintings.

    On the shapechanger subtype, I'm not quite sure on what effects that would have. The subtype itself carries not mechanics, but it can be chosen for things like favoured enemy, and I seem to recall some spells or abilities effect shapechangers differently (mostly ones that involve shapechanging). Also it would let the ozodrin qualify for the warshaper, but that is somewhat less important.

    I'll take a look at Krimm's stuff then to see if I can find any ideas.

    I just might try combining Naught Morality and Horror, but any suggestions for a better name if the two are merged?

    Glad that the class has turned out well so far. And at last it is getting close to done.

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  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    They are actually two distinct and very different traits, I don't think they should be combined. Also, I like both the names. Why not just have them both at 20?

    Also, on a separate note, I really love the Ozodrin, and I was thinking of using it in a campaign-- but odds are the campaign will eventually go to epic. Is it possible you've considered or will consider some epic Ozodrin abilities or feats? Maybe make a couple epic feats that give them access to 'epic features' of some sort? I don't mean to pile stuff on you, you've done beautifully with this class, it's probably my favorite homebrew class at this point. Just throwing ideas out.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Hmm... Maybe something like Apothesis of Madness as the ability name? Or Horror Ascendant? Something like that?

    Well, after looking up the warshaper I still think giving the ozodrin the Shapechanger subtype is a 'meh' idea. I have no arguement for nor against it.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing View Post
    Hmm... Maybe something like Apothesis of Madness as the ability name? Or Horror Ascendant? Something like that?
    Those sound great in my opinion. I would go for Horror Ascendant maybe, Apotheosis of Madness sounds like something that could be used for an epic feat or ability... Also, wouldn't be better Horror Ascendance, rather that Ascendant? Just my impression, given I'm not english my opinion could be easily proven wrong

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    To my memory the main ability of the shapechanger subtype is that if your form is changed in a negative way you can return to your normal form as a swift action, thus rendering spells like flesh bond and baleful polymorph merely a minor inconvenience, instead of a possible inta-kill.

    And also, here's my idea for the level 20 ability, though it might be a smidgen to powerful, and in my traditions, really long.

    Aberration's Awakening(ex): At level 20, and ozodrins body and mind become much closer to their aberrant side, freeing both their mind and body from their inhibitions. They double their form points and then add twice their ozodrin levels again (thus resulting in the formula for their form points looking like this: ((charisma modifier+aberrant feats taken+(3*ozodrin level))*2)+(2*ozodrin level)=maximum form points. The ozodrins process of releasing it's mind gives it a new insight:morality is entirely relative. As a result, they no longer have an alignment. They act as whatever alignment it would be most advantageous to them. If they are affected by a spell or power attempting to discern their alignment, they can either put up a "false signal" and choose an alignment to be detected as, or simply decide to send back the equivalent of "white noise". This idea is very hard for mortals to comprehend, and thus reading the mind of an ozodrin this powerful is very dangerous to do. If a mind probe or similar power or spell is cast/manifested on the ozodrin, the ozodring can do one of two things: they can either turn the spell/power back on the caster/manifester, or they can let it through, and show them the true secrets of their mind. Unless the other person is also a lvl 20 ozodrin, they are driven insane (as if by the spell insanity)for 1d4 days. In order to stop themselves from going insane from the knowledge, a 20 level ozodrin takes measures to prepare its brain against internal influences, which end up extending to outside influences. They ozodrin can prepare it's mind in two ways: by either portioning off a small part of it's brain where the knowledge is (acting as an (ex)schism) or by clearing it's mind (acting as (ex)mind blank). The ozodrin can switch between the two with one hour of mental focusing. The portioning affect also causes him to be able to shove more mundane truths into it, essentially allowing him to fool magical/psionic lie detection in addition to mundane methods of lie detection (since as far as everybody (ozodrin included) is concerned, he's technically not lying).
    Last edited by Necroticplague; 2010-09-12 at 11:15 AM.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticplague View Post
    Aberration's Awakening(ex):... They ozodrin can prepare it's mind in two ways: by either portioning off a small part of it's brain where the knowledge is (acting as an (ex)schism) or by clearing it's mind (acting as (ex)mind blank).
    So would the ozodrin essentially have the option of being under a permanent mind blank or schism effect? Or is this only in preparation for reading other ozodrins's minds?
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcanistSupreme View Post
    So would the ozodrin essentially have the option of being under a permanent mind blank or schism effect? Or is this only in preparation for reading other ozodrins's minds?
    It acts as a permanent either mind blank or schism. Except it is extraordinary (coming from mental preparation) and not psionic or magical in nature. Getting mind blank is a relatively common ability for several classes (though it comes much later for this class than it usually does). Schism is strictly weaker (providing a second throw to several things mind blank provides total immunity to), but it allows for good multiclassing into psionics or spellcasting (which since charisma is an important skill means it can do well to multiclass into bard or sorcerer).

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    So the schism ability would essentially be Epic prep? That would be something of a letdown for those never intending to go Epic. I know that there's a choice, but I feel like it would be better just to give them a mind blank effect instead.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    A DM approved this class for me to use in a game

    A question though, the enhancement bonus an Ozodrin's natural weapons gain from Unearhtly power, does it also apply to damage rolls, or is it just an enhancement bonus to attack rolls?

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    The enhancement bonus is just to attack rolls. Also, let me know how it goes if you play the class.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Spawn: Interesting Augment, although some of the costs don’t make sense. I don’t understand how the HP totals are being reached - The main feature states a 5hp/10fp ratio, which doesn’t work with the tough augment resulting in +30 hp (that would be a 5/1 ratio). Furthermore, it is possible to spend less than 10fp on a spawn! Perhaps every 2fp = -1hp = +5 spawn hp ratio would be better? 40fp and -20hp for a 100hp spawn?

    Small spawn: This should outright state that it doesn’t apply to any features that have been given to the spawn.

    Swarm spawn: I don’t understand how the HP total is reaching those numbers. Anyhow, perhaps it should just halve the hp of the spawn (rounded down)? So 2x swarm augment would result in 3 spawn with 1/3 the hp they would have normally had. With the above changes a 40fp double spawn would result in two 50hp spawns with a -2 to attack, damage, and AC and a quad swarm would be 4 25hp spawns with a -4 to attack, damage, and AC.

    This practically becomes a summoning feature with the better HP ratio. Which is really cool for epic, actually. On another note, sinister image is awesome.

    I have more to say, but I have a lot of College work I should be doing right now. (I will do those other spells… eventually….). This is probably going to be my favorite homebrew class. When it is finished I totally think you should nominate it for phoenix magazine.

    ---------------------------------------------
    There is an issue that needs to be solved, though. The manifest form ability gained at 1st level is both an endless source of friendly fire and a you-fail shaken effect. Or rather, a you-fail friendly fire cannon. It only costs 10fp to form 10 eyes, which results in a DC of 20. If you make 20 eyes the DC is 30, even before adding other features. I think this save will be beyond at least some of your party members at any given level, and they will have to continuously save against this every time you alter your form.
    Perhaps the ability should only trigger when you manifest your form, and even then specify “opponents”. More like frightful presence and less like a continuous aura. Even then it is a pretty strong debuff. Otherwise you are punishing your allies for traveling with you, and that isn’t a good idea.

    Edit: Really, even my version is a little crazy at level 1. Maybe the DC should be 10 + class level instead? DC 20 at level 10 is alright, and DC 30 at level 20 isn't bad at all. DC 11 at level 1 is kinda low, but it is a swift action mass debuff.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2013-02-08 at 12:18 AM.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Spawn: Interesting Augment, although some of the costs don’t make sense. I don’t understand how the HP totals are being reached - The main feature states a 5hp/10fp ratio, which doesn’t work with the tough augment resulting in +30 hp (that would be a 5/1 ratio). Furth more, it is possible to spend less than 10fp on a spawn! Perhaps every 2fp = -1hp = +5 spawn hp ratio would be better? 40fp and -20hp for a 100hp spawn?
    Actually it is a 5hp/1fp ratio. You are confusing the hp lost making the spawn with the reduction to max hp made when making the spawn. Though maybe I should make that a little more clear. The ozodrin loses 1 hp per form point spent on the spawn. 1 out of 10 of those are reductions to its max hp. The spawn itself has 5 times as much hp as the ozodrin lost (so if the spawn costs 10 form points it has 50 hp).

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Small spawn: This should outright state that it doesn’t apply to any features that have been given to the spawn.
    Good point. I'll fixed that. As a side note should spawn have variable stats (perhaps changeable by size)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Swarm spawn: I don’t understand how the HP total is reaching those numbers. Anyhow, perhaps it should just halve the hp of the spawn (rounded down)? So 2x swarm augment would result in 3 spawn with 1/3 the hp they would have normally had. With the above changes a 40fp double spawn would result in two 50hp spawns with a -2 to attack, damage, and AC and a quad swarm would be 4 25hp spawns with a -4 to attack, damage, and AC.
    I've already addressed how the hp is reached above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    This practically becomes a summoning feature with the better HP ratio. Which is really cool for epic, actually. On another note, sinister image is awesome.
    Glad you like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    I have more to say, but I have a lot of College work I should be doing right now. (I will do those other spells… eventually….). This is probably going to be my favorite homebrew class. When it is finished I totally think you should nominate it for phoenix magazine.
    I have the same problem slowing my progress on the class. Well, that and laziness. I think I just might submit it once it is done.

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    There is an issue that needs to be solved, though. The manifest form ability gained at 1st level is both an endless source of friendly fire and a you-fail shaken effect. Or rather, a you-fail friendly fire cannon. It only costs 10fp to form 10 eyes, which results in a DC of 20. If you make 20 eyes the DC is 30, even before adding other features. I think this save will be beyond at least some of your party members at any given level, and they will have to continuously save against this every time you alter your form.
    Perhaps the ability should only trigger when you manifest your form, and even then specify “opponents”. More like frightful presence and less like a continuous aura. Even then it is a pretty strong debuff. Otherwise you are punishing your allies for traveling with you, and that isn’t a good idea.
    A good point. I think I'll make it only trigger when you first change, and be an optional effect (also will change the DC to 10 + half the number of features).

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Edit: Really, even my version is a little crazy at level 1. Maybe the DC should be 10 + class level instead? DC 20 at level 10 is alright, and DC 30 at level 20 isn't bad at all. DC 11 at level 1 is kinda low, but it is a swift action mass debuff.
    Well, my change will still allow it to be quite high, but it would result a lack of more useful features. Then again I could do something like a max base DC of 15 plus twice class level (I say base as feats or other things increasing your DCs could exceed that).

    Owrtho
    Tables
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    My Homebrew
    [creature]Shiny: Monster Competition XXXVI entry.
    [class]Wisp fire guide: Follow me. I have such sights to show you.
    [class]Ozodrin: A class to play as an eldritch horror.
    other hombrew

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