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  1. - Top - End - #211
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by ArcanistSupreme View Post
    So the schism ability would essentially be Epic prep? That would be something of a letdown for those never intending to go Epic. I know that there's a choice, but I feel like it would be better just to give them a mind blank effect instead.
    I'm aware of this. That's why I've edited in a buff for the schism affect (anti-lie-detection) and added the ability to switch between the two.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    You must do more Lovecraftian ickies Owrtho
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Well, I finally got around to updating the first post with the last few abilities. Let me know what you think as well as if you have any suggestions.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    It's about time you finally updated!

    ... Sorry, just had to get that out of my system. No offense.

    The new features look great. You might want to check the grammer for Warped Mind, though. Also, isn't that the name of one of the abberant feats in LoM?

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing View Post
    It's about time you finally updated!

    ... Sorry, just had to get that out of my system. No offense.
    Its fine. I also feel like I took a bit long updating this time. Though it isn't the longest gap I've had in updating the ozodrin.

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing View Post
    The new features look great. You might want to check the grammer for Warped Mind, though. Also, isn't that the name of one of the abberant feats in LoM?
    No new features unfortunately. Abilities is a different issue though. Also fixed a few typos on the distorted mind ability and changed the name (forgot the feat used that name).

    Now with all the abilities in place, the question is if the class is balanced, and what to do next for it (such as make new feats, possibly some epic stuff, PRCs if any, add more augments, etc.). Might actually work to add in some feats that grant augments or the like come to think of it. Also one or two more spell feats would be good, but rather difficult to come up with.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    No new features unfortunately. Abilities is a different issue though. Also fixed a few typos on the distorted mind ability and changed the name (forgot the feat used that name).
    I meant class features when I said that, actually. Not the features created/revealed by the ozodrin manifesting their true nature. Ah well, po-tay-to, po-tah-to. Nice to know you fixed those mistakes with Distorted Mind, btw.

    Can't help you with balance, but I honestly wouldn't mind seeing epic-level material for the ozodrin, though coming up with any epic level class features (ha) will be a challenge.

    On the topic of feats... hmm... Okay, how about one that reduces all augment costs by 1 point? It could only be taken once, mind you. Otherwise it opens up way too much potential for abuse.

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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Hmmm...

    I might have an idea that would work here.

    The way I see it, there are many things that don't have features for them (noses, ears, hair, maybe separating wings from fins, and what-have-you) but a)it's hard to think of enough good augments for each one and b)you have only 20 levels to give everything out.

    To solve this problem, why not create a category of features simply called "miscellaneous" where each feature has only a couple augments (limited by class level as the others) and, rather than giving them to all Ozodrin, making an aberrant feat that grants access to 1 or 2 miscellaneous features whenever you take it?

    That way, you could make all of the features you want (even if there's very few ways to expand on them) and not worry about including them into the progression.

    Also, on that line of thought. I'd recommend giving a bonus aberrant feat at each level that's a multiple of 3 to make things more interesting than just getting a single new feature. Seeing as this class interracts with aberrant feats so much, it seems wierd that you only give out one.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Okay, now that I've taken a minute to evaluate what sort of abuse my proposed feat could do, I think it's safe to say that it only applies to the initial application of the augment. If the augment can be applied to the same feature more than once (optional: and also has a point cost of 1 point), only the first application receives the discount.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    EDIT: Response to above: We already have a feat that gives fp. I don't think a harder-to-balance version whose combo effects would take a great deal of playtesting to figure out would be a good idea at this point in time.
    ----------------------------

    If this class gave out an extra aberrant feat every 3 levels, farspawn would probably need to be removed. Also, many aberrant feats become stronger the more aberrant feats you have.

    In any case, once every 3 levels would clutter up the class. 1/8/15 (including Aberrant Blood) would work better if you intended to do this. Swallow whole and Lure trap both increase the power of a specific style that the Ozodrin may not be focusing on, making them good levels for a bonus feat. This wouldn't require the removal of farspawn imo.


    Comments on parts of the class:
    Spoiler
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    Manifest Form: Still needs to be changed to the non-friendly fire lower DC version.
    A level 1 human Ozodrin with cha 18, farspawn+deepspawn has 17fp. That’s enough for two tentacles and 11 eyes. That in turn would result in a DC 16 will save [DC23 before change] vs the shaken effect that lasts 1d4+4 rounds (pretty much an entire battle). I think having the number of rounds be equal to your class level is a better idea, and would be a flavorful. 1-2 rounds at very low levels helps mitigate the fact that the DC is likely to be higher (perhaps moreso than high levels, where having a small number of very strong features becomes more plausible).

    Devour : This ability still has the hidden fp cost to use, and I don’t think the flavor is strong enough to warrant the hassle. Let the stomach barf stuff out as a swift action without needing features inside the stomach. It is unnecessarily complicated. People in the real world can expel food without tentacles in their stomach, why not an Ozodrin!?

    Basic Eyes

    I notice that the augments for this feature are out of whack cost and augment wise:

    Blind Eyes: Blindsight is awesome, and is better than see invisibility. Why are perceptive eyes level 5 while this, the best eye augment for actual vision purposes, is level 1?

    Sightless Eyes: Okay.

    Darkvision Eyes: This one is fine.

    Insightful eyes: Why would you ever use this augment when, for the same number of form points, you can just form 3 basic eyes and gain a +1 untyped, unrestricted bonus to AC? I think the normal eye AC bonus is fine. Perhaps this one could give a bonus to sense motive checks or something.

    Perceptive eyes: Well, for 2 more form points you can have 10ft blindsight which is better than mere see invisibility. In anycase, it only saves you a few form points – so why is this the highest level eye augment?

    Basically, I would have Perceptive Eyes and Blind Eyes exchange cost and level, with perceptive eyes being reduced to 5ft see invisibility. Maybe P.E. should be the level 3 augment.

    Maybe a new level 1 augment that gave blindsense, with blind eyes being a way to make such an eye even stronger. I don’t think you would even need perceptive eyes in that case.



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    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2010-09-25 at 11:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    You make good points, Magikeeper. My one concern is that most optimized ozodrin would likely be taking no other aberrant feats other than farspawn.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    You make good points, Magikeeper. My one concern is that most optimized ozodrin would likely be taking no other aberrant feats other than farspawn.
    Well, if you use flaws it isn't viable to take only farspawn (my high-level test NPC only took it 5 times, out of 9+blood at level 16 [granted, that is a lot of farspawn]). But that has been a concern for me too. In games without flaws or the dark chaos shuffle* deepspawn and then farspawn will be the norm as 21-31 extra fp is a big deal.

    On the other hand, I like the ability to focus on features if I want to. I'm not sure 5fp is much better than what some of the other aberrant feats can give you - some of them are pretty strong when you take only aberrant feats! So I'm not sure it is optimal to only take farspawn. I think it would eventually be optimal to retrain most non-farspawn feats into farspawn at high levels.

    Maybe Farspawn could work like this:

    Farspawn (Aberrant)
    Your true nature is quite strong.
    Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Form Points, Charisma 13
    Benefit: When you take this feat you gain 1 form point plus 1 additional form point for every two non-Farspawn Aberrant feats you have. If you later gain additional aberrant feats you gain an additional form point for every two additional non-Farspawn Aberrant feats gained.
    Special: This feat may be taken up to your charisma modifier times. You do not loose it if your charisma is later permanently reduced. Its effects stack.

    ^Now taking only Farspawn would be a bad idea. The 1 + ˝ is because I feel Farspawn would be too weak otherwise.


    *If I used the shuffle she would have 8 more feats, but making npcs with DCS is not really the sort of test most groups will care about.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2013-02-08 at 12:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Well, in order:

    InfiniteNothing:
    • I figured you were.
    • I agree.
    • As you say below that would be a bit to powerful.
    Realms of Chaos:
    • That seems like a good idea. Would be worth looking into at least. Though figuring out mechanical benefits could be a bit harder.
    • As Magikeeper said, that would likely be more powerful than it should be.
    InfiniteNothing:
    • That seems better, but like Magikeeper said, would be best left out for now until a better idea of balance has been determined.
    Magikeeper:
    • I agree (to your edit at the top).
    • That seems like a good idea for extra aberrant feats being given out.
    • Spoiler
      • Huh, I thought I edited the Manifest Form description. What if I changed it to be optional, only occur when the ozodrin first changes, and only make someone shaken for 1 round + 1 for every 5 they failed the save by?
      • Well, the ozodrin does have a stomach that a grown man could comfortably stand in. That said, I might just make it a standard action. That way they need to choose between attacking or coughing things up.
      • Basic Eyes
        • That is a good point. I think I was thinking of blindsense when I did that.
        • Insightful eyes: A good point. Sense motive bonus might make it more attractive.
        • Perceptive eyes: You make a good point.
        • I agree with that swap.
        • I think I'll make a 1 cost level 1 blindsense augment that requires the sightless eyes augment (thus making it total to 3 cost). If I go with your idea of making blindsight then be a boost to that, it would still not make the perceptive eyes obsolete as they would let you see things as well as make out colours and text on invisible objects.
      • Provided you aren't carying anything in the limbs and use them for no other actions that round, I don't see any reason why not. I should likely make note of that though.
    Realms of Chaos:
    • Well, it does require an additional 4 charisma for every time you take farspawn (so 14 first time, then 18 second, 22 third, 26 fourth, etc.) Still if that doesn't seem like a big enough limit I could make it also require you not have more farspawn than any other aberrant feats you take.


    Also, if I do make the miscilanious features, I must ask what the various ones would give. I can't think of many possibilities outside of those Realms of Chaos listed, and of them, ears are kind of put in with basic eyes, and I'm not sure what noses would do (well, if you have the sent feat I suppose they could be used for tracking. Also come to think of it they could have a handful of 'sniffing' augments, such as detecting magic or the like). Hair seems like it would mainly just be good for concealing things, but the mechanics of that are somewhat harder to determine. I suppose I could do something though like "you can have one hair augment active even when you are not manifesting your true nature. You may place a single feature that is smaller than it (or two eye per size category) inside it and use it when not manifesting your true nature" mind there would also be an increased cost to the feature, and the increase in the hairs size would make it noticeably longer.

    Edit: I decided to change swap the names of Insightful and Perceptive eyes. I also split the original perceptive eyes affects making the bonus to search and spot be the new ability of the original insightful eyes (also reducing the cost to 1). I then made the other changes to the eyes I was planning to do as mentioned above, and added the two aberrant bonus feats.

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    Last edited by Owrtho; 2010-09-26 at 01:36 AM.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Um, RoC? An ozodrin can only take Farspawn (the original) once for every two points of Charisma modifier. Even if said ozodrin had an 18 Charisma and poured all his stat increases into Charisma (bringing it to a total of 22 by 18th level if my math's right), he could only take the feat three times. The only thing flaws could possibly gain for the character with that restriction are additional non-Farspawn abberant feats.

    Also, I did the math on how many bonus form points the original Farspawn feat would give a human ozodrin with a base Charisma of 18 (provided they also poured all their ability score increases into Charisma) and came up with a total, by 18th level, of 27 bonus form points if all the feats they took were abberant feats. Honestly, that's not much compared to the amount the aforementioned ozodrin would already have just by virtue of the class itself.

    EDIT: Ninja'd by Owrtho. Thanks for helping me make my point about the original Farspawn feat, though.
    Last edited by InfiniteNothing; 2010-09-26 at 01:39 AM.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Huh, I almost missed Magikeeper's post. I'd agree with InfiniteNothing on that point about how much Farspawn can be taken. I also agree with Magikeeper though on the point about being able to focus on features, and that some aberrant feats are likely better than farspawn depending on play style.

    As a side note, should I allow a player to cannibalize the wings from starspawn for form points if they so choose? Also the same question for waterspawn.

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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Good question. Here's one that, in my opinion, is a better one: at least in the case of starspawn, why would they want to? Unless they can switch between having them cannibalized and not having them cannibalized, I'm pretty sure that the answer's a resounding no.

    Waterspawn... good question. It would probably depend on the campaign setting.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Don't change Farspawn! It's actually reasonably balanced now. If you make it so farspawn itself doesn't count towards the form points... you kinda negate the feat being all that good. You have 4 aberrant feats? Great. Every time you take Farspawn, get 2 form points. Farspawn, and indeed all aberrant feats, are MEANT to be a stacking improvement.

    It is balanced by the half charisma modifier thing. I optimized an Ozodrin at 15th level in a campaign which gives you gestalt and a feat every level. I used some prestige classes on the other side to get how many aberrant feats?

    31!!!

    BUT I only have Farspawn 5 times because my charisma is 32. No matter how many more feats I get I can't take Farspawn more times. I beg of you, don't make Farspawn underpowered by making it so it doesn't apply to itself for the purposes of calculating aberrant gain.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Long post on farspawn and another attempt at a new one:
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magicyop View Post
    Don't change Farspawn! It's actually reasonably balanced now. If you make it so farspawn itself doesn't count towards the form points... you kinda negate the feat being all that good. You have 4 aberrant feats? Great. Every time you take Farspawn, get 2 form points. Farspawn, and indeed all aberrant feats, are MEANT to be a stacking improvement.

    It is balanced by the half charisma modifier thing. I optimized an Ozodrin at 15th level in a campaign which gives you gestalt and a feat every level. I used some prestige classes on the other side to get how many aberrant feats?
    We are not talking about balance. Once again, your test had a ton of feats so the hit of taking a bunch of farspawn didn't matter. Like it wasn't an issue in my test. But what if you only have 5+1 bonus feat at level 16?
    Edit: Thinking about it, ~15fp might not to be worth 5 other feats in the low-feat situation. Maybe I am overthinking this.

    Also, in response to Infinite Nothing: I would assume a +5 inherent bonus to cha way before that level. The features allow us to avoid most of the item-tax needs (flight, etc). So PCs with few feats would still have enough cha to take almost all farspawn.

    Also, in the situation in the quoted post the no-count would give 3 fp as it gives 1 + 1/2, which is what the first two farspawns would give anyway. Changing my test PC with the new farspawn resulted in 4x farspawn for a total of 16fp instead of 5x farspawn for 25 extra fp.

    Perhaps it could give you a point for every non-farspawn feat instead of what either version does right now. I'll call this neo-fs in this post.

    So 5x neo-FS with 10 feats would give 5*5 = 25fp. 4x fs would give 4*6 = 24fp. 3x fs would give 3*7 = 21fp. 1xpFS would give 9fp. Bam. For builds with a ton of feats, farspawn is still viable. For builds with only a few feats, 1-2 farspawn is the best amount. Thus, the optimal amount of farspawn would continue to be a proportion of your feats no matter what level of power you are. Plus neo-FS wouldn't need the Cha restriction as its very calculation method would prevent you from taking all farspawn.


    None of us seem to play in low-powered games. Heck, in an actual game as a PC I would likely be magic-blooded if not a lesser Celadrin looking to be dark chaos shuffled.


    -------------------------

    The issue with cannibalizing the other X-spawn are how many points the features are worth. A level 1 Ozodrin starts out with 17+ fp right now thanks to deepspawn. Wings are worth 5fp each. So that would be a feat that gives 10fp at level 1. Maybe you gain the special ability to swap out the feat for a different aberrant feat if you want to when you gain the feature?
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2010-09-26 at 09:51 AM.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    On the cannibalizing starspawn and waterspawn, you would be able to reform them (much like with the deepspawn). I'd also note that the wings would not grant a form of attack at level 1 though, so while it would provide 4 more form points than with deepspawn, you'd still have some trouble in combat (even if you could fly). There is a similar concern with the waterspawn, though in that case you would maintain the ability to breathe under water even if you removed the fins (and the cold resistance which you would keep with the wings as well).

    Then again, 10 form points could be quite a boost for a low level ozodrin. Perhaps if the wings only could be canibalized for 3 form points each, but could be reformed (as the feats wings, not the augmented feature wings) for 3 form points. In such a case the balance of having early attacks might make up for the keeping cold resistance.

    On the issue of farspawn, I'm confused by you saying they would have an inherent +5 bonus bonus to charisma. If you're talking about items, I thought that such buffs did not count for the sake of determining if you qualified for feats. If it does, I can make not that they don't count for farspawn.

    Also, while the class does not grant two bonus aberrant feats, I find I agree with your assessment that 15 bonus form points is not much (would be 24 if you could take 7 farspawn with the aberrant blood, but it still is not much). For that mater, deepspawn would grant more form points than a single farspawn at that point. As it is, this seems fairly balanced to me.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by InfiniteNothing View Post
    Um, RoC? An ozodrin can only take Farspawn (the original) once for every two points of Charisma modifier. Even if said ozodrin had an 18 Charisma and poured all his stat increases into Charisma (bringing it to a total of 22 by 18th level if my math's right), he could only take the feat three times. The only thing flaws could possibly gain for the character with that restriction are additional non-Farspawn abberant feats.
    Actually, you end up with a natural 18 + 5 from leveling + 5 from a tome/wish + 6 from an enhancement bonus = 34

    This allows you to take the feat 6 times without any degree of cheese (keep in mind that you don't lose the benefits of the feat if you later take off the item giving your the enhancement bonus due to the wording of the feat).

    Keeping in mind that something like 90% of players play without feat-grabbing madness (no feat swapping, taint-accumulating, or even flaws if you can believe it), that would leave you with 2 feats to spare if you are human or 1 otherwise.

    Hence, the bonus feats were kind of called for to let people choose something else.

    On that note, Magikeeper, just to make sure, does this look like your concept?

    Starspawn (Aberrant)
    You're true nature is quite strong.
    Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Form Points, Charisma 14
    Benefit:You gain an additional form point for each aberrant feat you possess other than starspawn.
    Special: You may choose this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

    If it's something like that, I definitely approve.
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Farspawn (Aberrant)
    Your true nature is quite strong.
    Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Form Points, Charisma 14
    Benefit:You gain an additional form point for each non-farspawn aberrant feat you possess.
    Special: You may choose this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

    Is what I am suggesting. What you wrote stacks with other farspawns, and is even more optimal than the current version.


    As for the other X-spawn, that would result in deepspawn+waterspawn+starspawn giving 6+4+6/10 for either 16 or 20 bonus fp. With flaws that is at level 1, without flaws the 18cha human is still going to have 22/26fp with optional flight. Why take anything else?! The only balance issue I think the Ozodrin has is the first few levels. I don't play at level 1, but some people do. 22/26 might not be that bad, though. Another issue is that the x-spawn are already good feats for some ozodrin to take - once they become farspawn+ for people who are not feat-grabbing from everywhere it is worse than the farspawn issue. If you only have 6 feats, x-spawn x2 would be much better than anything else you could be doing. Waterspawn depends on game with only 4 points, and my suggested farspawn would actually be better in this situation.



    On +5 bonuses to cha: Inherent bonuses count for everything. I.E., the +5 tome/wish bonus. I'm not counting item buffs.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2013-02-08 at 12:27 AM.

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Just added in a note that temporary boosts to charisma do not count toward farspawn. This would mean you could have up to 28 charisma counting the possibility of a tome or wish being used. Then again that would only reduce the number by 1.

    As for Magikeeper's new version suggestion, that does seem like it could work well.

    As for your comment on the X-spawn, I can't tell if you think it would be balanced or not. The number of form points granted does not seem particularly high for later levels (though every little bit helps), but as mentioned, it is the low levels where this will have an impact.

    Owrtho

    My Homebrew
    [creature]Shiny: Monster Competition XXXVI entry.
    [class]Wisp fire guide: Follow me. I have such sights to show you.
    [class]Ozodrin: A class to play as an eldritch horror.
    other hombrew

  22. - Top - End - #232
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Just added in a note that temporary boosts to charisma do not count toward farspawn. This would mean you could have up to 28 charisma counting the possibility of a tome or wish being used. Then again that would only reduce the number by 1.

    As for Magikeeper's new version suggestion, that does seem like it could work well.

    As for your comment on the X-spawn, I can't tell if you think it would be balanced or not. The number of form points granted does not seem particularly high for later levels (though every little bit helps), but as mentioned, it is the low levels where this will have an impact.

    Owrtho
    I think a less ambiguous issue might be that Starspawn is already an awesome feat. It isn't just 22/26fp. It is 22/26 fp plus wings when you want them. What could compare to that at low levels?

    Also, I screwed up on the wording. I'm not sure if the feat would count future feats RAW-wise. Here we go:

    Farspawn (Aberrant)
    Your true nature is quite strong.
    Prerequisite: Aberration Blood, Form Points, Charisma 14
    Benefit:You gain one form point for each non-Farspawn aberrant feat you possess when you take this feat. Whenever you gain an additional non-Farspawn aberrant feat, you gain an additional form point.
    Special: You may choose this feat multiple times. Its effects stack
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2010-09-26 at 12:22 PM.

  23. - Top - End - #233
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    I don't think that the newest addition to farspawn was necessary as the text in LoM describing aberrant feats specifically states that feats with cumulative effects for having aberrant feats increase as you gain more aberrant feats.

    Also, I think that my wording also worked considering that if you would take it twice, both would count as "starspawn" (the reason I didn't use the words "each other aberrant feat") and thus not give you bonuses for having the other. Then again, your wording is a bit more clear so no real complaints there.

    Also, is it really necessary to redeem waterspawn for points?
    Water breathing, cold resistance, and early access to fins seems like a nice deal by itself so I couldn't imagine trading it in for too much (and certainly not as much as deepspawn, where you're trading in the entire benefit of the feat).
    Last edited by Realms of Chaos; 2010-09-26 at 02:34 PM.
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  24. - Top - End - #234
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Owrtho View Post
    Now with all the abilities in place, the question is if the class is balanced, and what to do next for it (such as make new feats, possibly some epic stuff, PRCs if any, add more augments, etc.). Might actually work to add in some feats that grant augments or the like come to think of it. Also one or two more spell feats would be good, but rather difficult to come up with.

    Owrtho
    I think it would be great to see an epic progression of this, with maybe some new features and augments added either via class or feats... As for new magic feats, may I suggest something like Necrotic Cyst? Or maybe even the Far Realm martial discipline homebrewed in the forum...

  25. - Top - End - #235
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    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Well an augment that would let you rend someone would probably fit (though maybe make it a tactical feat since by itself that would seem pretty weak). Must have 2-3 or more claws and/or tentacles that can actually grapple and are natural weapons (2 tentacles could hold someone up in the air and try to pull him apart while their claws start digging into the smuck).

    Maybe an ability/feat (a really high level ability/feat) that would allow the Ozodrin to initiate and maintain a grapple with multiple creatures within reach (but each appendage can only grapple targets within their reach) at the same time. Maybe make it so that the Ozodrin must have at least 2 features that can grapple minimum, to every one creature that it's attempting to grapple.

    What about an ability that would allow them to swallow whole more than one creature with each attack?

    Say for instance that 2 medium creatures are side by side. Oh look, the Oz man has a colossal sized mouth, both can fit shrimpe style . One bite attack, compare the role to both of their ACs (assuming that the Oz is going to bite, then grapple, then swallow), and if it beats both, then both have to start grappling to avoid going down it's gullet.

    A feat that lets one have Telekinesis and other Beholder eye powers as a special eye augment might be nice. Make it so that one must have either dissected a beholder or been taught by one.

    Maybe something that gives the Oz tremorsense (for dealing with pesky burrowers) and scent (for tracking runners).

    The tremorsense could run off the sightless eyes (since they are essentially eardrums and eardrums are designed to pick up vibrations. Heck one could argue that the only thing that separates hearing and touch is the aural nerve which interprets the vibrations in the air as sound).

    The scent could be on a tentacle with a fork on the end (similar to a snakes). The reason for a fork is for navigation (essentially "hot" or "cold").

    Maybe something that could inflict insanity on anyone who looks at the Ozodrin with anything like True Seeing (I think some of the Elders out of Lovecraft could do that to people who looked at their "true" form).

    An augment that gives a bonus on Hide and Move Silently?

    Track as a bonus feat?

    I mean I think predator (with a little p not the big "P" Predator) when I see this class and the ability to remain unseen (think Chameleon ambush hunting tactics) and the ability to track prey (think how a Wolf can run down prey) would seem logical.

    I could see the Oz as something that the local King or Evil Overlord keeps in their basement for when someone needs "dealt with".

    Someone goes into the trouble makers room, see's one of 3 things.

    1) Nothing. No blood anywhere, just a messy bed and an open window.

    2) Blood everywhere, no body.

    3) As above, but something that looks like a chewed up piece of meat, roughly the size as a person if you put all the pieces back together, that was vomited back up in the room.
    Last edited by periscope69; 2010-09-27 at 07:40 AM.

  26. - Top - End - #236
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Comments on the above:

    Maybe an ability/feat (a really high level ability/feat) that would allow the Ozodrin to initiate and maintain a grapple with multiple creatures within reach (but each appendage can only grapple targets within their reach) at the same time. Maybe make it so that the Ozodrin must have at least 2 features that can grapple minimum, to every one creature that it's attempting to grapple.
    The multigrab feat is in Savage Species. You just need improved grab, which this class gets. It is a monstrous feat, so the aberrant feat I created that mimics a monstrous feat can be used to aquire it. Note that multigrab only reduces the penalty, improved grab itself gives that ability. A higher level Ozodrin can handle the -20 penalty.

    I don't see a place to add the track feat in the main class. Maybe a hunting aberrant feat that mimics its effects in some way for those players that want to use this class to be a predator. Some kind of tactical feat, perhaps?


    Beholder eyes powers are a slew of save-or-be-screwed if I remember correctly. TK is an fun power, but gaining it via feat is iffy. Maybe if you could only use it one round per aberrant feat every ten minutes or something. I dislike random flavor requirements, particularly one that is at odds with the class (although you can have a studious Ozodrin, nothing in the class suggests or requires it.).


    The scent and tremorsense are fine ideas.
    Last edited by Magikeeper; 2010-09-27 at 08:32 AM.

  27. - Top - End - #237
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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    I just watched an episode of heroes and thought of this tread... What about an ability (feat, feature, don't know which would be best at the moment) to steal opponent's abilities by eating them/their brain? The Illithid Savant from Savage Species had this very ability if I recall correctly.

  28. - Top - End - #238
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    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Comments on the above:



    The multigrab feat is in Savage Species. You just need improved grab, which this class gets. It is a monstrous feat, so the aberrant feat I created that mimics a monstrous feat can be used to aquire it. Note that multigrab only reduces the penalty, improved grab itself gives that ability. A higher level Ozodrin can handle the -20 penalty.

    I don't see a place to add the track feat in the main class. Maybe a hunting aberrant feat that mimics its effects in some way for those players that want to use this class to be a predator. Some kind of tactical feat, perhaps?


    Beholder eyes powers are a slew of save-or-be-screwed if I remember correctly. TK is an fun power, but gaining it via feat is iffy. Maybe if you could only use it one round per aberrant feat every ten minutes or something. I dislike random flavor requirements, particularly one that is at odds with the class (although you can have a studious Ozodrin, nothing in the class suggests or requires it.).


    The scent and tremorsense are fine ideas.
    Forgot about Savage Species, my bad .

    The track could be added as a part of the feature which gives scent (I mean most dogs could follow things by scent from a young age, it would not be that difficult a skill to grasp). Just make it so that you can ONLY track by scent unless you have the feat itself. One good rainstorm or blizzard and your screwed.

    I could see them getting TK as an at will or as a useable every 5 rounds or so ability, it's not gamebreaking (unless they get really creative or get it at a low level).

    The other eye powers could go on a "once a day" plan.

    You see I see the Oz as a predator who seems to be an amalgam of all different sorts of more specialized aberrations, something primordial if you will (or the aberrant part is, the mortal part not so much). So it would stand to reason that they could tap into something that it's "descendents" could do.

    Heck you could have feats (with higher level requirements) that could let them mimic some of the abilities of aberrations.

    Take an aboleth for instance. A feat for it might grant the OZ something similar to bardic knowledge (call it Forbidden Knowledge or Ancient Wisdom or something like that). Maybe have the feat require so many ranks in both Knowledge (Planes) and (Dungeoneering).

    MarkusDarkmind:

    While that would be cool, I think on top of everything else this class has, that would be pushing it to Overpowered in a hurry. That and the fact that this class has options out the wazoo.

    Besides a concept like that really deserves it's own class or prestige class.

    (I think there have been a couple made, one's called a powerphage on RPGNOW.com).
    Last edited by periscope69; 2010-09-27 at 08:57 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #239
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Magikeeper View Post
    Comments on the above:



    The multigrab feat is in Savage Species. You just need improved grab, which this class gets. It is a monstrous feat, so the aberrant feat I created that mimics a monstrous feat can be used to aquire it. Note that multigrab only reduces the penalty, improved grab itself gives that ability. A higher level Ozodrin can handle the -20 penalty.
    Actually, this class does not grant improved grab. It has improved grapple and Coiling Tentacle. Though the latter functions as improved grab, it is not named as such and therefore cannot be used as the ability for the purposes of meeting prerequisites.

    Also, something about otherworldly skill and Aberrant Monstrosity seems to be annoying me. They are both strictly worse than taking the actual feats and it seems that they were created just so that other types of feats could "feed" your other aberrant feats. It seems that there should be some manner of actual benefit to choosing them instead of the actual feats above and beyond "being an aberrant feat". For example, let the feat only be chosen once and reduce the time gained but let the ozodrin choose whatever feat they want within the category each time (or, for a less powerful option, have them choose a selection of two or three feats to choose between each time they take the feat).
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  30. - Top - End - #240
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    ElfMonkGuy

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    Default Re: Tooth and Tentacle [3.5 base class PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Realms of Chaos View Post
    Actually, this class does not grant improved grab. It has improved grapple and Coiling Tentacle. Though the latter functions as improved grab, it is not named as such and therefore cannot be used as the ability for the purposes of meeting prerequisites.

    Also, something about otherworldly skill and Aberrant Monstrosity seems to be annoying me. They are both strictly worse than taking the actual feats and it seems that they were created just so that other types of feats could "feed" your other aberrant feats. It seems that there should be some manner of actual benefit to choosing them instead of the actual feats above and beyond "being an aberrant feat". For example, let the feat only be chosen once and reduce the time gained but let the ozodrin choose whatever feat they want within the category each time (or, for a less powerful option, have them choose a selection of two or three feats to choose between each time they take the feat).
    You'd think it would have improved grab just because of what it does.

    Not sure what to say about the feats.

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