FATAL: A Campaign Journal

[Zeta Kai]

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

[huttj509]

So basically we have a system where, based simply on the roll of a die, one character can be playing superman while the other is working off his 4 years of playing Jimmy Olsen.

I wonder which came first, the system or the text. I suspect it was discovered that people might not find it fun to play in these groups, and the author decided to throw in all sorts of inflammatory stuff, so as to have a target for reviewers, get sales, and be able to claim that anyone who disliked it was simply a prude or something.

Heck, even DnD 3.5 doesn't have the class disparities becoming obvious until level 10 or so (+- 5 depending on specifics).

That much difference at level 1? Yer not gonna have a group stickin together unless they decide to ignore their occupations and just be a rovin band of folks giving people unwanted attention. Course, the former soapmaker can't get any better at thuggery unless he sits to the side for 4 years...

[Prodan]

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

Nietzsche was stupid and abnormal.
-Leo Tolstoy

[Sliver]

"When you doubt your powers, you give power to your doubts."

- The Sphinx

[Greenish]

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

Ah, so now we know what he was talking about. I wonder if he used scatomancy or urimancy to know about FATAL before it existed (and if he had any points put into spitting skill).

[warmachine]

I worry that some religious freak or unprincipled demagogue will discover FATAL, start another crusade and never mind its universal condemnation. That the PDF has professional art and layout would make it appear published even though it never was. The crusade would gain momentum when they interview Byron Hall. This crusade would be picked up by the cesspit known as 4chan and then shown as proof of widespread discussion and play.

[Bharg]

Was FATAL even released?

[warmachine]

Only as a PDF. There was even an expansion PDF. Byron Hall wrote that he was looking for a publisher but, obviously, no one touched it. I'm sure a copyshop could print it as a properly bound book.

[InkEyes]

I worry that some religious freak or unprincipled demagogue will discover FATAL, start another crusade and never mind its universal condemnation. That the PDF has professional art and layout would make it appear published even though it never was. The crusade would gain momentum when they interview Byron Hall. This crusade would be picked up by the cesspit known as 4chan and then shown as proof of widespread discussion and play.

I don't think we have anything to worry about. FATAL is the most notorious of the bad RPGs and it's unheard of outside of internet tabletop RPG circles. It's hard to pearl-clutch over a game that's only available in PDF form from websites that warn you that burning the book would be an insult to fire.

[potatocubed]

"Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."

- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

I read a quote on RPG.net about one of the guys who reviewed FATAL (I think it was Darren Sartin, but I could be wrong) which runs something like "I think when you reviewed that game you stared into the abyss too long. It didn't just stare back: it plucked out your eyes, climbed into your head and it's driving you around like a car."

[Arakune]

Let's not close this thread by involving RL religion on this. I want to see what happens with the guinea pigs.

[Prodan]

Let's not close this thread by involving RL religion on this. I want to see what happens with the guinea pigs.

Such a exploitative phrase. You should stick with "victims".

[Asheram]

Such a exploitative phrase. You should stick with "victims".

"Who's always last to know, who fills the air with cries?
Who's sanity is blasted and then who usually dies?

The victims, the victims! Tentacles!
The victims, the victims! Tentacles!


*winces*...Just realised how fitting this song is to the FATAL theme...

[Blackfang108]

"Whoss always last to know, who fills the air with cries?
Who's sanity is blasted and then who usually dies?

The victims, the victims! Tentacles!
The victims, the victims! Tentacles!


*winces*...Just realised how fitting this song is to the FATAL theme...

What song is this?

Also, I thought he stopped the playtest? Why are so many people missing that part?

[kamikasei]

Also, I thought he stopped the playtest? Why are so many people missing that part?

The playtest has already concluded, but there's more of it to be written up, and that's what people want to see.

[Dust]

I did not, no. The entire campaign was three sessions long, and it is completed as of this time. It was only after the horrendousness of the last two sessions that I realized, "Hey, you know who would like to hear about this? The INTERWEBS." and started to slowly type up our, uh, adventures in my spare time. The first session went well, but it barely used the FATAL source material; only for character creation, the rest was just a stock plot that could have been dropped into any fanatsy setting.
It's not until I start getting braver and using more of the book's influences does the proverbial feces hit the rotating air-conditioning unit.

[Asheram]

What song is this?

Also, I thought he stopped the playtest? Why are so many people missing that part?

It's Tentacles from Shoggoth on the roof. Made by the H.P. Lovecraft Historical Society.

[ThunderCat]

Also, everything is randomly generated so you get no choice what kind of character you want to play, it isn't realistic at all and you have to randomly generate things that will never come up period."

As far as I can tell, a character's sex is chosen by the player, which sort of says it all: It's alright to force a player to play a deformed infant incapable of even the most basic communication, who makes other infants spontaneously puke and copulate within a certain radius, and who will never gain even a single level in its lifetime. But forcing the player to be female is just too cruel......


Seriously though, I'm looking forward to the next instalment. FATAL is one of the few things that has ever made me laugh out loud over both racial hatred, misogyny, and the top most annoying RTPG trends ever ('realism', elitism, defensiveness, abysmal social skills etc.).

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I wonder how much of FATAL's squick he managed to get into before the experiment ended because withouey the squick they could have been playing any ****ty game.

Of course when you bring in actual FATAL material that's when I imagine people start leaving the table.

I worry that I'm a little too interested in what would happen in an actual FATAL game run as intended. I'd never dare experiment with anyone I know though and I'm also scared and put off by the idea of playing/running it online.

Oh if there is squick in you're later sessions you should consider the Brilliant Gameoligists Mature board.

[Mystic Muse]

Here was my reaction to TVtropes reviewing the game.




"Urinating. Urinating is a skill. You have to roll to piss on things. Full page plus chart. It measures how many ounces you can fire off. It gives rules for aiming. Commentary almost impossible. Soul gone. Empty husk of human being. **** this game."

[Greenish]

"Urinating. Urinating is a skill. You have to roll to piss on things. Full page plus chart. It measures how many ounces you can fire off. It gives rules for aiming. Commentary almost impossible. Soul gone. Empty husk of human being. **** this game."

I find it amusing that you can fail to notice a minotaur "taking advantage" of you. Actually, no, that's just depressing.

[potatocubed]

I worry that I'm a little too interested in what would happen in an actual FATAL game run as intended.

Nothing good.

[Dairun Cates]

I wonder how much of FATAL's squick he managed to get into before the experiment ended because withouey the squick they could have been playing any ****ty game.

Here's the crazy part. Most people never get past the "OMG SQUICK" phase, but something crazy happens when you do. When you get past the squick of FATAL, under its bad racist, sexist, ever -ist imaginable exterior, lies an EVEN WORSE AND MORE UNPLAYABLE system.

The truth of the matter is, even when you cut out all the horribleness of the "NSFW" stuff, you actually STILL end up with just about the worst system ever. TRUE character creation takes WELL over 3 hours and something like 90% of your rolled statistics will NEVER be used. You also have to roll for your personality and just about every decision (save your physical sex) is left up to the dice. If you had edited out 450 pages of squick, you still have 450 pages of the worst offense to role-playing games.

Let's put it this way. Byron Hall (the creator of fable), didn't even BOTHER to stat out all the classes that he lists, and this isn't just "rock maker" or something stupid like that, the DRUID AND HIEROPHANT (supposedly major classes) are completely unstated. On top of that, combat requires something like up to 40 rolls for one character for one turn.

Then there's the inanity of magic items randomly generating ANY effect on anything. You can actually roll as a GM for a random anachronistic brassiere of decapitation that decapitates the users (REALISM!). Oh, and you have a 1 in 1000 chance of making a magic item that isn't generic, and mages are incapable of leveling since they have no combat magic, and level 1 chaos spells include induce backache while the ones that take days to cast kill 10 million people without a save.

Yep. Even without the squick, there is a LOT to hate, and it still beats just about anything by far. FATAL is a horrible abyss from which there is no return. It is wholly unique in its badness on ALL levels. Even the mechanics alone are enough to melt your brain.

[Sliver]

There was that link to the Lets-Read-FATAL on TvTropes to the first topic that caused it, where there was a link to Byron Hall's rebuttal to Darren's review of the game.

Obviously, they hate F.A.T.A.L. and anyone involved with the game. Their hatred can be only the result of fear*. They are fearful because they know it will be published. They are fearful because the material in the game is supported, and is dissimilar to anything that attracts them**. People fear what is different to them, mostly out of cognitive laziness; it takes effort to explore what is different***.

*I agree. I fear FATAL. I am frightened of the idea that it might get published. I am terrified of the idea that it will become part of my collection even without anyone handing it out to me, as a purchase or a gift.

**It is so dissimilar to anything that attracts anybody, that it does the opposite quite masterfully. I am so revolted by the system that I'm beyond intrigued.

***It takes will too.

On the other hand, if it ever gets published, you can use it as a nice "I hate you" gift.

Maybe it was an attempt at making something so ****ty that it was good. I still think it's a joke gone too far.

[Daimbert]

Here's the crazy part. Most people never get past the "OMG SQUICK" phase, but something crazy happens when you do. When you get past the squick of FATAL, under its bad racist, sexist, ever -ist imaginable exterior, lies an EVEN WORSE AND MORE UNPLAYABLE system.

But after reading all of that, I'm wondering if some of those things could be done better in a better game. Like some of the more adult themes. And ...

The truth of the matter is, even when you cut out all the horribleness of the "NSFW" stuff, you actually STILL end up with just about the worst system ever. TRUE character creation takes WELL over 3 hours and something like 90% of your rolled statistics will NEVER be used. You also have to roll for your personality and just about every decision (save your physical sex) is left up to the dice. If you had edited out 450 pages of squick, you still have 450 pages of the worst offense to role-playing games.

... part of this. In some sense, I LIKE the idea of having a character randomly generated. I'd like it to be more sane -- although that might make it more complicated -- but the idea that your character is built randomly down to personality is actually fairly intriguing. I in some sense do like some of the extended statistics, because it would allow for a generated character that's really, ahem, fleshed out. With some extra sanity tossed in and some of the focus on certain ... organs less emphasized. I'm not happy about decisions being left up to the dice, but I can see it as being interesting to me in a strict roleplaying sense; your stats and rolls determine what you do, but you have to determine how it's done (and why). Which, to me, might lead to something that I consider really interesting: being given a character with a personality and being told "Be that character".

(snipping the stuff that I agree is stupid)

Then there's the inanity of magic items randomly generating ANY effect on anything. You can actually roll as a GM for a random anachronistic brassiere of decapitation that decapitates the users (REALISM!).

I don't know the details of how it works -- because my eyes glazed over in the Let's Read -- but this as a base is at least potentially a really neat way to deal with magic. As long as you have a shot at figuring out what it'll do before you put it on, that it's random makes magic items risky propositions. Adding random spell misfire effects that do really odd things can reduce the dependence on magic in a world. Heck, I think it'd be really neat to have a system where when you enchanted an item it would only pick up a random effect. Yeah, the side effect would be that no one would use it, but if items were random too you might try it just to get something useful. That would make for interesting -- but, yes, somewhat frustrated -- mages.

So, I'd like to find a system with good mechanics that allows for at least the random character generation. I don't know of any.

[kamikasei]

In some sense, I LIKE the idea of having a character randomly generated. I'd like it to be more sane -- although that might make it more complicated -- but the idea that your character is built randomly down to personality is actually fairly intriguing.

Play MAID!

[Dairun Cates]

Play MAID!

Pretty much this, from what I've heard about Maid. Pretty much randomly generates your character, their clothes, and their personality and secret past (Edit: oh, and super powers). It's up to you to do the rest.

FATAL really does take it to another level (even without the squick) though. SKILL POINTS are the very basis of what you can and can't do. These are not only random, but different for each race (in a system that has a level cap). Matter of fact, the difference goes from 1d100 per level all the way to 1d100+75 for Anakim (effectively tieflings). It's one of those things that really has to been seen or read about in detail to believe.

Also, the magic generation is literally as inane as it gets. It essentially boils down to anytime any item is mentioned (ANY ITEM), you roll 1d1000. On 1,000, it's magic. Now roll 1d1000. It can now be one of 30 weird inane ability, except on a 1,000. THEN it becomes one of the crazy random specific magic items. So, as far as I've read, it's a 1 in a million chance of ANY item being one of the magic items that takes up a full 200 something pages to describe. Basically, imagine a full D&D Magic Item compendium and then a note at the beginning that says, "the best odds of seeing one of these items EVER under actual rules is a 1 in 10 shot at seeing 1 in a 2 year long campaign that runs weekly. Enjoy the Book!"

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I'm told Rolemaster's magic item creation tables are similar to what you want. I've never played myself but I had a DM who's item creation system was supposed to be based on it and it would be influenced by spells cast during creation, the personality and "karma" of the creator and it's intended wielder if different as well as numerous other factors including skill checks by the creator.

Wow so even if you were just the kind of sicko the game is targeted at you'd still be a million times better off playing a different an equally sick group.

[Dairun Cates]

Wow so even if you were just the kind of sicko the game is targeted at you'd still be a million times better off playing a different an equally sick group.

Yep. Pretty much that.

Even if you enjoy this kind of stuff, you're not likely to be able or want to wade through the math and unnecessary charts. It even gets as bad as actually requiring a quadratic equation you have to solve just to find out the results of a certain action that the game designer actually ENCOURAGES you to perform.

So, the game even sabotages its own aim. You're actively punished throughout the game for playing it as intended. Also, a barber must shave 5 billion beards to hit level 20. Somehow... That's just so baffling that it never ceases to amuse me with a chuckle when I remember it.

[Jarian]

Also, a barber must shave 5 billion beards to hit level 20.

That seems perfectly reasonable. [/tongueincheek]