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    Default Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    I'm in a campaign full of relatively new players (myself included) and I had a few questions for you guys.

    One of my friends who knows a whole lot about DnD says that there are few (if not no) divine caster Prestige Classes that don't give you full caster progression that are worth taking. So what are good PRCs for a cleric (focused on fighting more than healing, and he has low charisma) and a Water-focused Shugenja? (we're only level 3 right now, trying to plan ahead).

    Also, what are good feats or spells that a low-charisma cleric can take to boost his combat abilities? Divine Might and the other divine feats from the PHB2 all rely on the charisma stat.

    Also, I was looking at some Reserve feats in Complete Mage and the Aquatic Breath feat says it gives +1 CL to water-based spells. As a shugenja, I get most of my spells from being elementally tied to water, so would the spells I get from that be counted as "water-based spells" for the purposes of that feat?
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    Default Re: Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    Clerics almost don't need feats. Its all about spell selection. Power attack never hurts though. Buff your STR like mad and then power attack till its goo.

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    Default Re: Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    Quote Originally Posted by Seatbelt View Post
    Clerics almost don't need feats.
    Not true; you can never have enough Extra Turning.
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    Default Re: Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    It's not phenomenal or anything but Holy Warrior from CC is an option, if you took the War domain. Better for Cleric Archers but if you're hurting for damage and have the feats, there it is.

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    Default Re: Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    Quote Originally Posted by Manigeitora View Post
    Also, I was looking at some Reserve feats in Complete Mage and the Aquatic Breath feat says it gives +1 CL to water-based spells. As a shugenja, I get most of my spells from being elementally tied to water, so would the spells I get from that be counted as "water-based spells" for the purposes of that feat?
    Only if the spell actually has the [Water] descriptor, I believe.
    Last edited by Optimator; 2010-05-24 at 05:31 PM.

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    Default Re: Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimator View Post
    It's not phenomenal or anything but Holy Warrior from CC is an option, if you took the War domain. Better for Cleric Archers but if you're hurting for damage and have the feats, there it is.
    CC = complete champion? Because Holy Warrior isn't in there....
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    Default Re: Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    Holy Warrior is in Complete Champion. (It's a feat, not a PrC). Law Devotion from Complete Champion is another decent one for clerics.

    For the cleric, it's pretty easy to find a PrC. Ordained Champion from CC is quite good for a melee cleric who doesn't mind losing caster levels, and so is Knight of the Raven if you have the Expedition to Castle Ravenloft book. Without losing CLs, his best bet is probably Church Inquisitor in Complete Divine.

    For a shugenja, you're kind of screwed because WoTC likes to pretend your class doesn't exist, and most decent divine PrCs require either turn undead or a domain. Paragnostic Apostle (Complete Champion 97) is alright, it's full casting and gives minor knowledge-based abilities. Combat Medic from Heroes of Battle is another full casting PrC that gives some cool abilities.
    Last edited by Akal Saris; 2010-05-24 at 05:48 PM.
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    Default Re: Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    Quote Originally Posted by Optimator View Post
    Only if the spell actually has the [Water] descriptor, I believe.
    I agree. Water descriptor and water school are not the same. The second one is more for flavour (even if can help in expanding your spell selection, see spell compendium guidelines for shugenja).
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    Default Re: Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    Melee oriented PrC's for cleric here ya go:

    Bone Knight (Five Nations [Eberron series])
    Ordained Champion (complete divine)
    Knight of the Raven (Expedition to Castle Ravenloft)
    Divine Power (Spell from Core [PH])

    If you don't like either of those classes take the spell at least and do this Cheese

    Extend spell (Feat)
    Persist spell (Feat)
    Divine Metamagic [Persist]
    DMM Divine Power

    Now you have full BAB and a +6 to STR if I recall correctly. This says cleric is now a front line fighter who wears heavy armor AND has spell power to boot. GG sir

    Also other good PrC's for cleric are the following
    Divine Oracle (2 lvls gives you evasion in hvy armor [TY SIR])
    Church inquisitor gives you immune to charm and compulsion effects
    Contemplative gives you an extra domain

    Good feats for cleric all depend on what you want. If you go the DMM route and DONT have a good charisma I suggest extra turning and get the Undeath domain because that domain grants the FEAT again along with extend persist and DMM.

    AS for the other class I don't know how to help it sorry.
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    Default Re: Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    Quote Originally Posted by Manigeitora View Post
    One of my friends who knows a whole lot about DnD says that there are few (if not no) divine caster Prestige Classes that don't give you full caster progression that are worth taking. So what are good PRCs for a cleric (focused on fighting more than healing, and he has low charisma) and a Water-focused Shugenja? (we're only level 3 right now, trying to plan ahead).
    Your friend is mostly correct. The best PrC for a Cleric is go directly to Cleric 20, do not pass go do not collect $200. There are a scattered few PrCs that don't give up divine caster levels, but most of them don't offer much that's worth taking over more cleric. There are a couple tucked away in some 3.0 Forgotten Realms books that might be worth looking into... Windwalker is the only one I can recall off the top of my head.

    For Shugenja... yeah, more 3.0 Forgotten Realms PrCs, but in this case Mystic Wanderer is very nice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manigeitora View Post
    Also, what are good feats or spells that a low-charisma cleric can take to boost his combat abilities? Divine Might and the other divine feats from the PHB2 all rely on the charisma stat.
    Divine Metamagic + Persistent Spell + Extra Turning (x2, x3, etc.) are probably going to be your strongest feat picks for combat. If you're not going that route... it depends on what you want to do during combat. It's hard to go wrong with Improved Initiative (get your first buff spell off quicker). Draconic Aura (Dragon Magic) might be worth looking into, particularly if your DM allows you to get the Vigor aura with it. Divine Defiance (Fiendish Codex II) lets you counterspell as an immediate action. But that's pretty situational against spellcasters, and not exactly combat-related.

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    Default Re: Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    Quote Originally Posted by Darrin View Post
    Your friend is mostly correct. The best PrC for a Cleric is go directly to Cleric 20, do not pass go do not collect $200. There are a scattered few PrCs that don't give up divine caster levels, but most of them don't offer much that's worth taking over more cleric.
    Not at all - plenty of PrCs are worth it. Generally the ones you want grant extra domains, like Contemplative, Church Inquisitor and Radiant Servant of X. Then there are those that just grant useful class features rather than domains, like Dweomerkeeper, Sacred Exorcist, and Paragnostic Apostle.

    Then there are the poorly-edited ones that grant 10/10 casting RAW when they weren't intended to, like Sacred Fist and Seeker of the Misty Isle (The latter grants extra domains as well.)

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    Default Re: Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post
    Combat Medic from Heroes of Battle is another full casting PrC that gives some cool abilities.
    Is Combat Medic worth looking into for the Shugenja? Everyone tells me Combat Casting is a pretty useless feat but that class looks nice.

    Also my friend mentioned a cleric spell that raises their BAB to that of a fighter's. Can someone tell me what this spell is and where I can find it?
    Last edited by Manigeitora; 2010-05-26 at 12:44 AM.
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    Default Re: Good PRCs for a Cleric and Shugenja? (3.5e)

    Quote Originally Posted by Manigeitora View Post
    Is Combat Medic worth looking into for the Shugenja? Everyone tells me Combat Casting is a pretty useless feat but that class looks nice.

    Also my friend mentioned a cleric spell that raises their BAB to that of a fighter's. Can someone tell me what this spell is and where I can find it?
    Pretty decent class, yes. Think of Combat Casting as "Feat Tax".

    Divine Power, in the Player's Handbook.

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