Basic RPG Elements

[raitalin]

So I'm sitting here designing an RPG and I'm wondering what all has been done before.

So I figured I'd make a list of what I knew about different games and their basic elements and came up sorely lacking. My play experience with various systems is pretty limited as teaching a new system to the groups I've been in is like pulling teeth.

Can the playground help me flesh out this list and maybe come up with a helpful resource for other gamers?

Advancement
Point-based advancement (WoD, GURPS, FASERIP)
Level-based advancement (d20)
Use-based advancement (Mouse Guard, CoC)
Other advancement

Resolutions
Multiple Die, success based resolution (WoD, Mouse Guard)
Multiple die, target total resolution (GURPS)
Single die, target total (Including d100s) (d20, FASERIP, CoC)
Various Dice, target totals: (Palladium)
Other resolutions
-Card Based: (TSR Saga, Deadlands)
-RPS: (oWoD LARP)

Heroic Effort e.g. Action Points, Force Points, etc:
d20 Modern, d20 Eberron, D&D 4e, Star Wars (All editions)

Attributes
3 Primary Attribues (Mouse Guard)
4 Primary attributes (GURPS)
6 primary attributes (d20)
7 Primary Attributes (Palladium, FASERIP
8+ Primary Attributes (WoD)

Skills
Non-combat skills (WoD, d20, GURPS, Palladium, Mouse Guard, FASERIP, CoC)
Combat Skills only
No skills (early D&D)

Health
Health Point System (d20)
Multiple Health Point System (Palladium, D20 Star Wars RCR, CoC)
Condition Track (WoD, SWSE, Mouse Guard, FASERIP)

When I get more information I'll reformat the list.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Advancement
Point-based advancement (WoD, GURPS, d20 Marvel)
Level-based advancement (d20)
Use-based advancement
Other advancement

What's use-based advancement? How does it differ from point-based?

Resolutions
Multiple Die, success based resolution (WoD)
Multiple die, target total resolution (GURPS)
Single die, target total (Including d100s) (d20, TSR Marvel)
Other resolutions

Non-dice resolutions are out there, not well-known, but out there. Deadlands, I've heard, uses playing cards for its magic system.

Attributes
<4 Primary attributes (GURPS)
5 or more primary attributes (WoD, d20, Palladium)

I would actually put the bar at 6 attributes, which is the traditional number, or have three categories: few attributes, average attributes, many attributes.

Skills
Non-combat skills (WoD, d20, GURPS, Palladium)
No skills (early D&D)

Don't forget both combat and non-combat skills, which is World of Darkness and GURPS and a few others.

Health
Health Point System (d20)
Multiple Health Point System (Palladium, D20 Star Wars RCR)
Condition Track (WoD, SWSE)

I'd personally classify WoD as a health point system, myself.

I almost wanna say there should be something making note of how special abilities work, whether they're powers unto themselves (Mage: The Awakening, D&D spells, D&D 4th Edition powers) or they augment existing abilities (Mutants and Masterminds, sometimes).

[Vorpalbob]

What's use-based advancement? How does it differ from point-based?

It means that your skills increase depending on how much you use them. ie: the more you climb, the better your Climb skill gets.

[Totally Guy]

Have I got this right?

Mouse Guard
Advancement
Use-based advancement. You need successes and failures.

Resolutions
Multiple Die, success based resolution. Conflicts also have a basic interaction matrix to add to the uncertainty.

Attributes
<4 Primary attributes. Just Health, Will and Nature.

Skills
Non-combat skills. Loads of skills including combat ones.

Health
Condition Track. Hungry, Tired, Angry, Injured and Sick.

[raitalin]

What's use-based advancement? How does it differ from point-based?

TSR's Dragonlance and Marvel Saga system used cards as well, and oWoD LARP used RPS. I'll add those.

Non-dice resolutions are out there, not well-known, but out there. Deadlands, I've heard, uses playing cards for its magic system.

I would actually put the bar at 6 attributes, which is the traditional number, or have three categories: few attributes, average attributes, many attributes.

Don't forget both combat and non-combat skills, which is World of Darkness and GURPS and a few others.

I'd personally classify WoD as a health point system, myself.

I almost wanna say there should be something making note of how special abilities work, whether they're powers unto themselves (Mage: The Awakening, D&D spells, D&D 4th Edition powers) or they augment existing abilities (Mutants and Masterminds, sometimes).

1. Vorpalbob's got you covered there.

2. I've actually never heard of a system with 5 stats. That just seemed like a decent cut off point.

3. Is there a system that has non-combat skills, but not combat ones? I suppose i should add that.

4. I dunno, the levels of damage come with penalties, there aren't a lot of ways to "get more HP" and even after a successful hit there's a test for damage, right? Seems more like condition track to me.

5. Hmmm, I'm not sure how to classify that, or whether there's going to be enough commonality to make it a useful comparison tool. Maybe someone has an idea.

Added Mouse Guard's information to the OP.

[banjo1985]

So, we add information on other systems, to essentially build a directory of the different options that have been used in various rulesets? Sounds good, might be a nice tool for homebrewers who want to create their own RP systems?

Call of Cthulhu

Advancement
Use-based advancement - The skills you use in a particular adventure have a chance of becoming better, but this chance gets smaller the better you are at a skill.

Resolutions
Single die, target total - d100 roll to get below your skill or attribute for success.

Attributes
5 or more primary attributes - About 12 I think, including Sanity & Luck.

Skills
Non-combat skills - Mostly non-combat knowledge and ttrade based skills. Also a few combat useful ones like Dodge.

Health
Multiple Health Point System - I think CoC counts as this. You have both HP nad Sanity points, and if either run low you're in big trouble.

[Kurald Galain]

Advancement
Point-based advancement (WoD, GURPS, d20 Marvel)
Level-based advancement (d20)
Use-based advancement (Mouse Guard)
Other advancement

There's also story-based advancement, for instance in Vampire.

Resolutions
Multiple Die, success based resolution (WoD, Mouse Guard)
Multiple die, target total resolution (GURPS)
Single die, target total (Including d100s) (d20, TSR Marvel)
Other resolutions (TSR Saga, Deadlands, oWoD LARP)

It may be interesting to split up "other" a bit more, e.g. card-based, purely DM-based, and so forth.

Important to resolution is whether the system has some kind of "hero points" or "fate points": a limited resource that you can add to rolls when you really need them.

Attributes
<4 Primary attributes (GURPS, Mouse Guard)
5 or more primary attributes (WoD, d20, Palladium)

I fail to see how a distinction between "four or less" and "five or more" is in any way relevant. There are systems with nine (whitewolf), twelve (D&D2 S&P) or zero attributes.

Skills
Non-combat skills (WoD, d20, GURPS, Palladium, Mouse Guard)
No skills (early D&D)

What about combat skills, then? Is it relevant whether the system has "feats" or "perks" or "traits"?

[raitalin]

There's also story-based advancement, for instance in Vampire.


It may be interesting to split up "other" a bit more, e.g. card-based, purely DM-based, and so forth.

Important to resolution is whether the system has some kind of "hero points" or "fate points": a limited resource that you can add to rolls when you really need them.


I fail to see how a distinction between "four or less" and "five or more" is in any way relevant. There are systems with nine (whitewolf), twelve (D&D2 S&P) or zero attributes.


What about combat skills, then? Is it relevant whether the system has "feats" or "perks" or "traits"?

1. Eh? I suppose you get experience through story awards, but is that any different from other point-based systems?

2. done

3. done

4. I was initially reluctant to break it down more, as I though it might be a decent rule of thumb for overall system complexity, but now that I think about it, its here more for sake of completeness, so I'll change that.

5.done. When you start getting into feats/perks/traits I think you reach a point where every system does things at least a little bit differently, so trying to categorize it is futile.

[TricksyAndFalse]

Resolutions
Multiple Die, success based resolution (WoD, Mouse Guard)
Multiple die, target total resolution (GURPS)
Single die, target total (Including d100s) (d20, FASERIP, CoC)
Various Dice, target totals: (Palladium)
Other resolutions
-Card Based: (TSR Saga, Deadlands)
-RPS: (oWoD LARP)

Dread for Jenga-based resolution!

Castle Falkenstein is another card-based resolution game.

Attributes
3 Primary Attribues (Mouse Guard)
4 Primary attributes (GURPS)
6 primary attributes (d20)
7 Primary Attributes (Palladium, FASERIP
8+ Primary Attributes (WoD)

James Bond and Jade Claw (both may be a little obscure) both have 5 primary stats.

You might be better off listing what attributes various games think are important (Strength appears in most games, and most games that don't have it still have some cognate like Body [Tri-Stat] or Somatics [Eclipse Phase]). Maybe group them together where different names mean the same thing (oWoD's Appearance == AD&D's Comeliness).

Skills
Non-combat skills (WoD, d20, GURPS, Palladium, Mouse Guard, FASERIP, CoC)
Combat Skills only
No skills (early D&D)

Some games simplify skills into 'professions'. If your character sheet says you have sailing experience, the GM might agree that you can navigate by the stars, tie knots, and have a good sense of balance--like a package of skills, very loosely defined. This was an optional rule in AD&D 2Ed, and an optional rule in Tri-Stat.

[Altair_the_Vexed]

You might want to add races and classes into your list.

Some games have only one player race (Conan and Cyberpunk 2020, humans; VtM, vampires), while some have dozens (D&D...). Within those, some races are subdivided (Conan, Aquilonian to Zingaran; VtM, Gangrel, Ventrue etc; D&D - all the elf sub-types).

Some games have many classes (D&D, the core and the splatbooks), some games have a few classes (Cyberpunk 2020, cop to solo, OD&D, fighter to wizard), and some have none (CoC).
Within the class systems, you can have massively customisable "classes" (WHFRPG), and rigidly non-customisable classes (OD&D, AD&D 1st Ed).

[Kurald Galain]

Oh, very well.

Paranoia.

Advancement: point-based and story-based (in the form of society boons and clearance level), but mostly you just die a lot.

Resolution: single die, roll under target number.

Heroic effort: you get perversity points which you can use to boost your rolls, or hamper your teammates.

Attributes: six, I think. They're completely unrelated to the D&D ones, though.

Skills: lots of them.

Health: condition track (which ends in "dead", "vaporized", "crater" and three or four things worse than that).

Heroic Effort e.g. Action Points, Force Points, etc:
d20 Modern, d20 Eberron, D&D 4e, Star Wars (All editions)

Note there is a fundamental difference between 4E's "action points" (which let you take an extra combat action and replenish automatically) and "hero points" (which make you more likely to succeed at a particular dice roll, and generally replenish as a result of roleplaying or story awards).

[Samurai Jill]

So I'm sitting here designing an RPG and I'm wondering what all has been done before.

So I figured I'd make a list of what I knew about different games and their basic elements and came up sorely lacking. My play experience with various systems is pretty limited as teaching a new system to the groups I've been in is like pulling teeth.

...I can relate.

Can the playground help me flesh out this list and maybe come up with a helpful resource for other gamers?

Advancement
Point-based advancement (WoD, GURPS, FASERIP)
Level-based advancement (d20)
Use-based advancement (Mouse Guard, CoC)
Other advancement

Off the top of my head, Dogs in the Vineyard uses an 'advancement system' based on adverse consequences (called Fallout.) The more fallout dice you sustain, the better the chance of earning experience- but the player chooses what form the experience takes.

Characters in Wushu don't advance at all.

Polaris uses a system where your character's effectiveness comes at the direct expense of their idealism, representing the transition from a zealous novice to a bitter and disillusioned veteran. You gain 'experience' either through cynical, self-serving decisions, or bad outcomes to a roll- but it doesn't actually make the character any more effective.

Resolutions
Multiple Die, success based resolution (WoD, Mouse Guard)
Multiple die, target total resolution (GURPS)
Single die, target total (Including d100s) (d20, FASERIP, CoC)
Various Dice, target totals: (Palladium)
Other resolutions
-Card Based: (TSR Saga, Deadlands)
-RPS: (oWoD LARP)

Heroic Effort e.g. Action Points, Force Points, etc:
d20 Modern, d20 Eberron, D&D 4e, Star Wars (All editions)

Amber diceless uses a resolution system based exclusively on inter-player negotiation, so to speak.

Dogs in the Vinyard uses a "poker" metaphor where you roll dice before a conflict begins and put 1-3 dice forward at a time in "raises" and "sees".

In Polaris, most resolution, again, is done using "key phrases" as a way to formalise give and take in debating the outcome of a situation. A single d6 is used in exceptional cases to resolve an impasse.

It's important to distinguish here between resolving Tasks and resolving Conflicts. The former refers to individual, small-scale actions, the latter refers to the larger stakes underlying those actions. Mouse Guard, for example, uses negotiation for conflict resolution, and dice rolls for task resolution.

Attributes
3 Primary Attribues (Mouse Guard)
4 Primary attributes (GURPS)
6 primary attributes (d20)
7 Primary Attributes (Palladium, FASERIP
8+ Primary Attributes (WoD)

Skills
Non-combat skills (WoD, d20, GURPS, Palladium, Mouse Guard, FASERIP, CoC)
Combat Skills only
No skills (early D&D)

Health
Health Point System (d20)
Multiple Health Point System (Palladium, D20 Star Wars RCR, CoC)
Condition Track (WoD, SWSE, Mouse Guard, FASERIP)

When I get more information I'll reformat the list.

There isn't really a hard distinction between skills and attributes in all RPGs, particularly those that aren't particularly simulationist.

Again, as examples I'm most familiar with, Dogs in the Vineyard has Traits, Attributes, Belongings, and Relationships, all rated with dice. Traits can often be used in a way that's similar to skills, but they can also serve as personality descriptors, and confer mechanical benefit even if they seem disadvantageous.

My Life With Master has only 3 numerical guages of any kind- Fear, Love, and Self-Loathing. Nicotine Girls is similarly spartan.

Polaris, likewise, has only Ice, Light, and Zeal, applied through a number of character-specific 'Themes', which might represent physical belongings, political responsibilities, or even personality traits or relationships.

[Knaight]

Advancement
Point-based advancement (WoD, GURPS, FASERIP)
Level-based advancement (d20)
Use-based advancement (Mouse Guard, CoC)
Other advancement

There is also no advancement, and alteration advancement (same totals, but a change of what skills are the highest, and what are lower. The link below is an example.
Fudge on the Fly

Resolutions
Multiple Die, success based resolution (WoD, Mouse Guard)
Multiple die, target total resolution (GURPS)
Single die, target total (Including d100s) (d20, FASERIP, CoC)
Various Dice, target totals: (Palladium)
Other resolutions
-Card Based: (TSR Saga, Deadlands)
-RPS: (oWoD LARP)

Heroic Effort e.g. Action Points, Force Points, etc:
d20 Modern, d20 Eberron, D&D 4e, Star Wars (All editions)

There are two that you left out. One is Matching Dice, two axis total, but I've never seen that anywhere but ORE. The other is Diceless, such as in Amber.

Attributes
3 Primary Attribues (Mouse Guard)
4 Primary attributes (GURPS)
6 primary attributes (d20)
7 Primary Attributes (Palladium, FASERIP
8+ Primary Attributes (WoD)

Also worth noting is no attributes. Fate is the best example here, along with its various spinoffs. Spirit of the Century, Dresden Files, etc. PDQ does the same thing, though somewhat different.

Skills
Non-combat skills (WoD, d20, GURPS, Palladium, Mouse Guard, FASERIP, CoC)
Combat Skills only
No skills (early D&D)

This about covers it.

Health
Health Point System (d20)
Multiple Health Point System (Palladium, D20 Star Wars RCR, CoC)
Condition Track (WoD, SWSE, Mouse Guard, FASERIP)

Individual Wound systems are also quite common. Mutants and Masterminds has one, and I have another Fudge Factor article for an example.
They call it Nonlinear, its really more an individual wound.

[Swordgleam]

Some games have no advancement, like Wushu (as far as I remember). It has two different resolution systems: multiple die, success based for complex things and single die, target based for simpler things. Health point system, and primary attributes depends on the power level of the game and individual choices; or you could list it as 0, and count those things as skills. It's a little iffy.

Midgard has a resolution mechanic that I don't think falls under any of the ones you have. You throw runes by rolling a bunch of d8s, and 1s are bad, 2s are discarded, 3s 4s and 5s all mean different things (eg. 4s are how fast you complete the task) and 6-8 you put into any pool you want or use to cancel out 1s. I'm not really sure how you would classify that, as some rolls you want more 4s, some rolls you don't care about 4s, and sometimes a 3 is better for you than a 5 but sometimes it's not.

It has 5 primary attributes, a health point system (more or less - there's a condition track linked to it in the form of modifiers based on how many wounds you have), point-based advancement, and non-combat skills.

Tri-stat dX is point-based with 3 primary attributes, non-combat skills, health points, multiple die target total resolution.

[Optimystik]

Elder Scrolls and The Sims have use-based enhancement, which has the funny side-effect of forcing players to repeat mundane tasks to improve their skills enough to do interesting things. For example, wedging down the run button while facing a wall in Morrowind to pump Athletics, or sitting down behind a Shopkeeper's counter and twiddling your thumbs to boost Sneak.

One reviewer of the Sims Online mentioned how roomfuls of players would spend hours skimming books or playing chess to boost their mental stats.

[Arbane]

A few outliers:

Skills and Stats

Games with no attributes: Some more freeform games, like Over the Edge, Heroquest, and RISUS, do away with the traditional stat/skill distinction. If you want your character to be a big strong guy, you take a Trait/Cliche/Whatever as "Strong as an Ox", and roll on it the same way as you would on "Good with a Baseball Bat" or "Nuclear Physicist".

(By the same token, these are all games where you can make up your own skills. such as "Former CIA Cryptographer", "Ninja", or "High Priestess of Olglothoth The Disemboweller"

Damage

Hit Locations: RuneQuest and GURPS use this--your body parts have different HP totals, and getting 'disabled' in one means it's useless until healed, and might even get severed with enough damage. Bad if it's your arm, terrible if it's your head. (Good for games that strive for "realism")

Stat Damage: If memory serves me right, the original Traveller game didn't have hitpoints--when you took damage, it was immediately subtracted from one of your physical stats. You got to choose which (so you could deliberately choose to lose Strength instead of Dexterity if you were a gunfighter, for example), and you were down/dead if any went below zero.

Totally abstract damage: In both HeroQuest and Risus, you're not actually hurt until a fight (or other conflict) is over, at which point you know who's face-down and who's still on their feet. Until that point, any injuries you take are purely for narrative purposes. (Good for more "dramatic" or "Cinematic" games.)

Resolution Mechanics

Poetic license: The game Everway used a pack of Tarot-like cards for resolving conflicts - you drew one, then explained how it affected your situation. (For example, the "Drowning in Armor" card meant that something you thought was a strength has just proven to be a weakness.)

Funky Dice: The latest edition of the Warhammer RPG uses custom dice, with the dice the player rolls have each side indicating success, complication, a lucky break, the character becoming exhausted, or some combination of the above. There were different types of dice for attribute-based checks, skill-based checks, and all-out efforts (more chance of success, but also more chance of exhaustion). The GM, meanwhile, added in dice causing injuries, bad luck, and so on, with the quantity depending on how tough the opposition was.

Effort Pool: Diceless games, such as Nobilis and the most recent Marvel Universe RPG, can give the PC a limited number of 'effort' tokens with a slow recharge time--when they face obstacles, they have to decide how to best allocate them to win, or possibly deliberately fail to conserve resources.

Cut-Ups: This was an optional system for Over the Edge: Put a lot of individual words from cut-up magazines, books, or whatever in a bowl, and pick out a number of them instead of rolling dice--you then had to make a sentence describing your action using them, and the GM would 'score' your action based on how well it fit.