[3.5] What happens if a lich or dry lich's phylatery/canopic jars are destroyed?

[Myou]

Can they make another, or are they now permanently mortal?

[NekoJoker]

Directly extracted from HERE:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm

An integral part of becoming a lich is creating a magic phylactery in which the character stores its life force. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery. Unless its phylactery is located and destroyed, a lich reappears 1d10 days after its apparent death.

As it says, when the Phylactery is destroyed so would be the Lich.

[Escheton]

You could then kill the lich, it doesnt destroy him/her when it is destroyed.
But yeah, unless the lich finds a way to get a new soul/lifeforce. He/she is prettymuch mortal.

[nekomata2]

I believe Libris Mortis also confirms that Liches cannot make a new phylactery after their's is destroyed, but yeah it doesn't immediately kill them.

[Starbuck_II]

You cannot make a new one.

If you die, you are really dead. No more rejuvanting.

[Myou]

Thanks for the confirmation.

Directly extracted from HERE:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/lich.htm



As it says, when the Phylactery is destroyed so would be the Lich.

That's not what it says.

[Alleine]

I believe Libris Mortis also confirms that Liches cannot make a new phylactery after their's is destroyed, but yeah it doesn't immediately kill them.

The specific page is 151 of Libris Mortis, for reference. It does indeed confirm, only one phylactery and no making a new one.

[J.Gellert]

But if you are interested because it's your player character who lost his phylactery, know that you can kill yourself, be resurrected, and do it again.

Unless I am forgetting something, all you need is... money. Kill a dragon.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Officially destroying the phylactery does not destroy the lich. Though the now very mortal Lich may be wary about going after the ones responsible for its destruction.

On the other hand, I like the story of the epic Lich of supreme power who suddenly crumbles to dust because a natural earth quake uncovered his lair and a local blacksmith melted down his phylactery for scrap metal.

[Jack_Simth]

But if you are interested because it's your player character who lost his phylactery, know that you can kill yourself, be resurrected, and do it again.

Unless I am forgetting something, all you need is... money. Kill a dragon.

Actually, you also need someone you trust enough to not try taking your payment and skipping the services (even if that's just because they're Dominated).

Edit:
Also, resurrection magic, applied to an undead, results in the guy from before the undeadedness - so you may lose more levels than you expect that way.

[Lapak]

But if you are interested because it's your player character who lost his phylactery, know that you can kill yourself, be resurrected, and do it again.

Unless I am forgetting something, all you need is... money. Kill a dragon.

Hmm. Nothing in RAW against what you're suggesting, as far as I can tell, but it sprang a houserule idea in my head. Suppose that the process of creating a phylactery damages the soul you're putting in it (not too outlandish.) Suppose that destroying the container destroys the soul utterly, putting it beyond the reach of Resurrection (True or otherwise), beyond Wishes or any non-epic magic, and without an afterlife of any kind.

On the one hand, this raises the stakes even more for a lich in terms of keeping his storage container safe. And it makes the prospect of becoming a lich that much more alien and horrifying to most people. On the other, it might actually make lichdom MORE attractive under certain circumstances - say, you'll bargained with a fiend or offended a god such that you don't have anything good waiting for you if you die.

[J.Gellert]

Hmm. Nothing in RAW against what you're suggesting, as far as I can tell, but it sprang a houserule idea in my head. Suppose that the process of creating a phylactery damages the soul you're putting in it (not too outlandish.) Suppose that destroying the container destroys the soul utterly, putting it beyond the reach of Resurrection (True or otherwise), beyond Wishes or any non-epic magic, and without an afterlife of any kind.

On the one hand, this raises the stakes even more for a lich in terms of keeping his storage container safe. And it makes the prospect of becoming a lich that much more alien and horrifying to most people. On the other, it might actually make lichdom MORE attractive under certain circumstances - say, you'll bargained with a fiend or offended a god such that you don't have anything good waiting for you if you die.

As fluff, I like it

[Hendel]

But if you are interested because it's your player character who lost his phylactery, know that you can kill yourself, be resurrected, and do it again.

Unless I am forgetting something, all you need is... money. Kill a dragon.

Unless of course you had out lived your venerable plus life span while you were a Lich, then upon Resurrection you would just drop dead of old age on the spot.

Unless, the time spent as a Lich does not count towards your mortal lifespan.

[J.Gellert]

Unless of course you had out lived your venerable plus life span while you were a Lich, then upon Resurrection you would just drop dead of old age on the spot.

Unless, the time spent as a Lich does not count towards your mortal lifespan.

It shouldn't, as you are technically dead all that time.

[Hendel]

It shouldn't, as you are technically dead all that time.

I wouldn't think it would, but it would be an incentive not to wait until the very, very end of your mortal life to become a lich. You might want to give yourself some "wiggle room" in case something like this happened.

[Dvandemon]

Hmm. Nothing in RAW against what you're suggesting, as far as I can tell, but it sprang a houserule idea in my head. Suppose that the process of creating a phylactery damages the soul you're putting in it (not too outlandish.) Suppose that destroying the container destroys the soul utterly, putting it beyond the reach of Resurrection (True or otherwise), beyond Wishes or any non-epic magic, and without an afterlife of any kind.

On the one hand, this raises the stakes even more for a lich in terms of keeping his storage container safe. And it makes the prospect of becoming a lich that much more alien and horrifying to most people. On the other, it might actually make lichdom MORE attractive under certain circumstances - say, you'll bargained with a fiend or offended a god such that you don't have anything good waiting for you if you die.

It tastes like marshmallow fluff *mmmmmmmm*

[NEO|Phyte]

Worst-case scenario, if you were a crusty old man before becoming a lich, get killed post-Ressurection and spring for a Reincarnate.

[AslanCross]

But if you are interested because it's your player character who lost his phylactery, know that you can kill yourself, be resurrected, and do it again.

Unless I am forgetting something, all you need is... money. Kill a dragon.

Aren't undead destroyed forever? They can't be resurrected.

[Starbuck_II]

Aren't undead destroyed forever? They can't be resurrected.

Nope.
Resurrection and True Resurrection restore the dead to their past human lives.

Undead Type
•Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.

Resurrrection
You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. You cannot resurrect someone who has died of old age. Constructs, elementals, outsiders, and undead creatures can’t be resurrected.

Resurrrection can't restore undead creature to undeath state only living state. So you'd lose Lichdom.

True Resurrection
You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed. This spell can also resurrect elementals or outsiders, but it can’t resurrect constructs or undead creatures.

True Resurrrection can't restore undead creature to undeath state only living state. So you'd lose Lichdom.



Revive undead in Spoell Compenduim restores to undead self.

[Rokurai]

Aren't undead destroyed forever? They can't be resurrected.

Wish, Miracle, True Resurrection can revive corpse dust back into the living person they were prior to becoming (un)dead.

-edit-
Also demigod or greater powers can do the same.

[cZak]

True rez has some serious mojo...

Nope.
Resurrection and True Resurrection restore the dead to their past human lives.

Resurrrection
You can resurrect someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed.

True Resurrection
You can revive someone killed by a death effect or someone who has been turned into an undead creature and then destroyed.

But (correct if wrong) it cannot restore an undead creature unless it is destroyed; i.e. little pieces.

[Starbuck_II]

True rez has some serious mojo...



But (correct if wrong) it cannot restore an undead creature unless it is destroyed; i.e. little pieces.

Yes, and if were we talking about losing Phylactery so you plan to be destroyed but have a deal to be (true) resurrected. Lose one level or not.

You'd lose template but not Exp from ECL. You still qualify for lich template, so you take it again (Same ECL minus 1 if Resurrected).
You gain a new Phylactery.

[Escheton]

Contingent true rez possible or something?

[Flickerdart]

I wouldn't think it would, but it would be an incentive not to wait until the very, very end of your mortal life to become a lich. You might want to give yourself some "wiggle room" in case something like this happened.

Kind of like Death's manservant from Discworld. Suddenly, your phylactery is destroyed and you're resurrected - with 30 seconds on the clock before you die again. What do you do, what do you do? A 5-round campaign!

[Kalrik]

My undead fu is a tad rusty. Don't intelligent undead continue to gain the bonuses from aging? I would assume so, since the bonus denotes experience gained over a long life. Being in an undead body, they would not gain the penalty. Makes sense, but again, I haven't toyed with undead in a long time.

[KillianHawkeye]

My undead fu is a tad rusty. Don't intelligent undead continue to gain the bonuses from aging? I would assume so, since the bonus denotes experience gained over a long life. Being in an undead body, they would not gain the penalty. Makes sense, but again, I haven't toyed with undead in a long time.

Technically, I don't believe that undead creature have age categories to progress through. So, no.

[Kalrik]

You are most likely correct. I dont' recall seeing any age catagories for undead either.