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    Default [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Infernomancer


    An Infernomancer prepares to lay down the law.

    "Everything burns."
    - Infernomancer Motto

    Infernomancers burn things.

    The statement is very simple, but its applications are very complex. Certainly, there are those Infernomancers who choose to act as living seige engines, ripping their way through armies and fortifications like a knife made of sunfire, but there are others who sear their way through spells, assassinate nobles with lances of magma, or even ferment unrest in societies until one faction or another boils over into civil war. Aiding them in these tasks is their connection to flame and heat, enabling them to bring Fire's touch to even those beings normally immune to it, see great distances through flame, and even ignite the soul to passionate frenzy - or utter destruction.

    Becoming an Infernomancer
    Almost all Infernomancers start out as wizards or sorcerers, though clerics with the fire domain form the next-most populous group, with druids in the distinct minority. The vast majority of them are self-taught, learning on their own how to bend Fire to their will, though some apprentice with other Infernomancers or recieve training from the agents of fire deities.

    Entry Requirements
    Skills: Knowledge (Arcana) 9 ranks, Knowledge (the Planes) 9 ranks, Spellcraft 9 ranks
    Spells: Must be able to cast 3rd level spells and know at least six spells with the fire descriptor (or that deal fire damage).
    Feats: Controlled Immolation, Precise Shot, Skill Focus (Concentration)
    Special: Upon becoming an Infernomancer, the character must forswear all spells with the water and/or cold descriptors (see the Fire Magic class feature, below).


    Class Skills
    The Infernomancer's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are: Appraise (Int), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (Any, chosen individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis)
    Skills Points at Each Level: 2 + Intelligence modifier

    Hit Dice: d6

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Spells per Day/Spells Known

    1st|
    +0
    |
    +0
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Fire Magic, Evasion, Spontaneous Combustion|-

    2nd|
    +1
    |
    +0
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Pyromancer's Grace (5' Sphere)|+1 existing spellcaster class level

    3rd|
    +1
    |
    +1
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Blazing Potence, Sunflash|+1 existing spellcaster class level

    4th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Out With a Bang|+1 existing class level

    5th|
    +2
    |
    +1
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Fire Sight, Everything Burns|+1 existing spellcaster class level

    6th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Pyromancer's Grace (Individual Targets)|+1 existing spellcaster class level

    7th|
    +3
    |
    +2
    |
    +5
    |
    +2
    |Blazing Sunder, Ignite Spells|+1 existing spellcaster class level

    8th|
    +4
    |
    +2
    |
    +6
    |
    +2
    |Ignis Daemonia|+1 existing spellcaster class level

    9th|
    +4
    |
    +3
    |
    +6
    |
    +3
    |Pyroclasm, Burn the Soul|+1 existing spellcaster class level

    10th|
    +5
    |
    +3
    |
    +7
    |
    +3
    |Decree of Annihilation|-[/table]

    Weapon Proficiencies: The Infernomancer gains no new weapon or armor proficiencies. Because of their instinctive connection to flames and heat, Infernomancers may cast any spell with the fire descriptor (or that deals fire damage) in light armor without invoking the normal chance for arcane spell failure.

    Spells per Day/Spells Known: At every level except first and tenth, the Infernomancers gains new spells per day and/or spells known as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (such as bonus feats, increased familiar capability, et cetera) except for an increase in effectice spellcaster level. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming an Infernomancer, the character must choose which class to increase (this choice may be made on a level-by-level basis).

    Fire Magic (Su): Infernomancers possess a deep, instinctive connection to Fire; many turn to outright worship of Fire as a universal force worthy of reverence in its own right. Regardless of their religious convictions, however, Infernomancers are rendered forever incapable of casting spells with the water or cold descriptor, spells that deal cold damage, or spells that conjure ice, cold, water, et cetera. Any such spells previously known vanish from the Infernomancer's list of known spells and cannot be re-learned; the Infernomancer cannot even use items that draw upon water or cold (such as a scroll of cone of cold or a wand of frost). He may, however, continue to cast spells which grant an energy resistance against cold.

    Fire knows its children, however, and protects them in turn. Spells that the Infernomancer casts which have the fire descriptor or deal fire damage enjoy a +2 sacred bonus to their save DCs, as well as a +2 bonus to their effective caster level. Additionally, the Infernomancer gains fire resistance equal to six times his class level. This resistance may not be augmented by magic, though it does stack with fire resistance granted by templates, feats, or racial abilities.

    Evasion (Ex): The Infernomancer learns lightning-fast reflexes over the course of his studies; starting at first level, the Infernomancer takes no damage whenever he succeeds at a Reflex save against an effect that would normally deal half damage on a successful Reflex save. He still takes full damage in the event of a failed save.

    Spontaneous Combustion (Su): The Infernomancer may spontaneously cast spells with the fire descriptor (or that deal fire damage) in the same manner that a cleric spontaneously casts cure or [/i]inflict[/i] spells. An Infernomancer who does not prepare spells gains no benefit from this ability.

    Pyromancer's Grace (Su): An Infernomancer of second level or higher has exceptional control over the flames he invokes; he may exclude a number of five-foot spheres from the area of any spell he casts which has the fire descriptor or that deals fire damage equal to his intelligence modifier. These squares are not treated as part of the spell's area, and are not affected by the spell in any way.

    At sixth level, the Infernomancer's control refines to the point where he may exclude any number of individual targets from the effects of his spells with the fire descriptor or that deal fire damage. He may still choose to instead exclude any number of five-foot spheres from the effect, or even combine the two (for example, he could exclude two five-foot spheres and six individual targets from the same spell).

    Regardless of level, an Infernomancer of second level or higher may exclude any number of beings from the areas of supernatural abilities granted by this class.

    Blazing Potence (Su): The destruction wreaked by an Infernomancer of third level or higher is horrific indeed; spells he casts which deal fire damage deal an additional amount of dice worth of damage equal to his class level (for example, a burning hands spell cast by a sixth level Infernomancer deals 6d4 additional points of damage, whereas a fireball cast by the same Infernomancer deals an additional 6d6 points of damage). This damage can exceed any and all limits normally imposed by the spell itself, but is not added to spells that normally deal damage (such as true strike or dispel magic, even if the Infernomancer causes the spells to deal damage via a class feature (such as Ignite Spells) or a metamagic feat.

    Sunflash (Su): An Infernomancer of third level or higher can unleash a flash of blinding flame once per encounter that reels and disorients his victims as a move action which provokes attacks of opportunity. Beings within one hundred feet of the Infernomancer (with the obvious exception of beings excluded via his Pyromancer's Grace class feature) take 10d6 points of damage and are stunned for one round unless they succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 10 + the Infernomancer's class level + his Intelligence modifier). A successful save indicates that they take half damage and are merely dazzled for one round instead of being stunned.

    Out With a Bang (Su): Starting at fourth level, the Infernomancer treats all conjuration spells with the teleportation, summoning, or calling descriptors as having the fire descriptor. Furthermore, whenever the Infernomancer casts a spell with the teleportation descriptor, they disappear (and reappear) in a flash of superheated smoke that deals 1d4 points of damage per class level to all beings within ten feet of their departure and/or arrival points. The Infernomancer may choose not to include the flash of smoke in his spell if he so wishes.

    Fire Sight (Su): An Infernomancer of fifth level or higher may treat divination spells as though they had the fire descriptor, provided he stares into an open flame at least the size of a torch while casting the spell. Additionally, an Infernomancer is always aware of divination spells or effects which are affecting him, provided that he is within ten feet of an open flame the at least the size of a torch.

    Everything Burns (Su): An Infernomancer of fifth level or higher is a dire thing indeed, able to combust even creatures which would normally be immune to the flames. He ignores an amount of fire resistance equal to six times his class level. Furthermore, creatures which would normally be immune to fire damage are instead treated as having fire resistance 100 (which is then reduced by this ability). Everything Burns does not stack with feats or metamagic effects which reduce or eliminate fire resistance or immunity.

    Additionally, the Infernomancer ignores half of an objects hardness when attacking it with a spell that has the fire descriptor or that deals fire damage.

    Blazing Sunder (Su): An Infernomancer of seventh level or higher may attempt to sunder items and other objects using his magic; when using a fire spell (that is, any spell with the fire descriptor or that deals fire damage) that requires an attack roll, he may designate an object as the target instead of a being, even if that object is attended.

    The Infernomancer may not sunder armor with this ability, though he may still sunder shields.

    Ignite Spells (Su): Also starting at seventh level, the Infernomancer treats dispel magic and all similar spells (such as greater dispel magic and disjunction) as having the fire descriptor. Furthermore, a being or object subjected to a targeted dispel magic (or similar spell) cast by the Infernomancer takes 1d8 points of fire damage per spell or effect dispelled if the Infernomancer so chooses.

    Ignis Daemonia (Su): An Infernomancer of eighth level or higher draws upon the unstoppable fury of hellfire; whenever he would deal fire damage (such as with a fireball or a flask of alchemist's fire), he instead deals half fire damage, and half damage that stems directly from unholy power, and is thus not subject to any kind of resistance. Upon gaining this class feature, flames invoked, held, or created by the Infernomancer turn black and guttering, as though made of darkness. The Infernomancer may choose not to invoke hellfire when dealing fire damage.

    Pyroclasm (Su): At ninth level, the Infernomancer adds all spells with the fire descriptor (or that deal fire damage) to his list of spells known. Additionally, once per day, he may maximize one of his spells that deals fire damage without extending its casting time, preparing the spell specially in advance, or increasing its effective level.

    Burn the Soul (Su): Starting at ninth level, the Infernomancer may make a vicious, blazing assault on a being's psyche. Twice per day, as a standard action which provokes attacks of opportunity, he may attempt to burn a being's soul. Should that being fail a Will save (DC 10 + the Infernomancer's class level + her Wisdom modifier), it recieves 2d6 points of intelligence, wisdom, and charisma damage and is struck blind for a number of rounds equal to the Infernomancer's Wisdom modifier as smoke and soot pour out of their mouth, nose, and eyes. Needless to say, suffering the effects of Burn the Soul is excrutiatingly painful.

    Decree of Annihilation (Su): An Infernomancer of tenth level or higher can unleash the awesome destructive power of elemental Fire. Once per day, as a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, the Infernomancer can unleash a blast of pure flame that deals 60d6 fire damage to all beings and objects within a 100 foot radius (obviously not including beings excluded by the Infernomancer's Pyromancer's Grace ability). Each being in the area is entitled to a Reflex save (DC 10 + the Infernomancer's class level + her Intelligence modifier) for half damage, but the flames are exceptionally hard to dodge; beings with Evasion are treated as though they did not have it, while beings with Improved Evasion are treated as though they merely had Evasion.

    After using this ability, the Infernomancer is treated as exhausted until he can get at least six hours of sleep.

    Playing an Infernomancer
    Blow things up. Aside from blowing things up, an Infernomancer is a fiery personality in a lot of ways - play that up! Is he a frenzied researcher, turning pages so fast that they smoke and curl? Does he have a passionate rhetoric that calls the common folk to revolution? A smoldering sexuality? Fire expresses itself in a lot of ways, and this is your chance to explore those options.
    Combat: Infernomancers are, by and large, not morons. They know their powers lie in magical destruction, augmented by just a touch of variety. As such, most Infernomancers lay down the law with mass-destruction spells that cheerfully exclude their allies from the worst of the damage. Feats such as Energy Substitution open up even more options to deal fiery death, and many Infernomancers will hit the opposition where it hurts (targeting spellcasters with Ignite Passions, or sundering a barbarian's equipment with a spread of searing rays). Regardless of how they lay down the law, Infernomancers often cause a hell of a lot of collateral damage - try and bend that to your advantage if at all possible.
    Advancement: Most Infernomancers advance as members of whatever class they were before taking up this path, though a few choose to advance as Fighters or Rogues to improve their accuracy and/or their ability to inflict precision damage on a regular basis.
    Resources: Infernomancers differ little from normal mages or clerics; their resources likewise match typical members of those professions.

    Infernomancers in the World
    "Black flames! Take cover!"
    - Private Nathaniel Mravin, sole survivor of the Battle of Horizon Keep

    Infernomancers, regardless of whether the reputation is deserved or not, are treated as living weapons or forces of wanton destruction. They are not often liked by the common folk, especially city-dwellers (whose homes are oh-so-flammable), but are widely held as useful in breaking seiges or enemy armies. It certainly doesn't help matters any that so many of them hire themselves out as mercenaries, fueling the stereotype.
    Daily Life: Wake up. Memorize spells. Adventure, research, fight battles, and/or blow things up (in any combination of the above, in any order you please). Eat. Divide the spoils. Sleep. Honestly, they're mages with a serious fire fetish - what did you expect?
    Notables: Brian Zeli (Human Wizard 9/Infernomancer 10) is a living legend. Devotees of fire gods call him a saint. Devotees of healing gods call him a demon incarnate. Mr. Zeli hires his services out to the highest bidder, and his prices aren't cheap, but he has single-handedly turned the tides of battles and even entire wars. His most famous exploit remains his most destructive, however; to defeat an army encroaching upon his patron, Zeli caused the eruption of a volcano. The resultant fallout slaughtered the army and choked their city-state with ash - their surrender followed as quickly as a surviving mage could be found to send it.
    Organizations: Infernomancers do not have any class-specific organizations, though they often join armies and mage's guilds.

    NPC Reaction
    Your average commoner or citizen does not trust an Infernomancer, but they aren't about to offend one - after all, they and their property are highly flammable. Nobles and other potential employers, on the other hand, often give the Infernomancer quite the bit of professional respect, hoping to be able to secure their services or, at the very least, protect their property (as mansions are also highly flammable, and gold melts easily). Most mages tend to view Infernomancers as needlessly focused.

    Infernomancers in the Game
    Infernomancers up the damage rolls, no doubt about it - mass damage, burning dispells, and the awe-inspiring Decree of Annihilation seriously put the hurt on their opposition. DMs should be ready, providing monsters that can take a beating or with decent Reflex saves.
    Adaptation: The easiest way to adapt the Infernomancers is to give them an organization or re-design them around a new element, such as acid or electricity.
    Encounters: In all likelihood, players encountering an Infernomancer are either witnessing his awe-inspiring destructive prowess or fighting him. It won't be an easy battle; he can afford to fling massive area-of-effect spells right and left without fearing for his allies, while they cannot afford the same luxury. Combine this with the potential for impressive manueverability, and the Infernomancer can wreak death and havoc from a distance, forcing the players to fight through his allies inch by bloody inch to get at the flame-weilding destroyer behind them.
    Last edited by Lord_Gareth; 2010-06-24 at 02:20 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [In-Progress]

    Um, there are no descrptions for class features starting with burn magic including the capstone.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    It did say [In Progress], but class features are now up ^_^


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    This is pretty OP, or at least the capstone is, since you can do it every single round with no limit besides being exhausted. The rest of it isn't too bad, considering you lose caster levels in exchange for blasting, which isn't that great.

    EDIT: Also, sun poisoning shouldn't say that you cast it as a sorcerer of your level, since sorcerers can't even cast poison.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-06-08 at 08:23 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    ...The things that happen when you forget the words, "Once per day"...

    EDIT: Fixed both abilities.
    Last edited by Lord_Gareth; 2010-06-08 at 08:25 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    ...The things that happen when you forget the words, "Once per day"...
    It's still essentially "I win the encounter" once per day, since the enemy would, on average, take 105 unstoppable damage and 105 fire damage that ignores 60 points of resistance, meaning even fire immune creatures would be taking 170 damage. It might not kill everything, but it's undoubtably going to kill everything that isn't a martial class/big monster, and significantly hurt even those.

    EDIT: Cleric of his class level means you're casting it as a 9th or 10th level cleric, which isn't very high, and the save explicitly relies on wisdom, so it's terrible unless you are entering as a cleric anyway.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-06-08 at 08:26 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Y'know, I'm half-tempted just to say Hexblade of his class level and call it a day, damnit >.<

    As far as Decree of Annihilation goes, they do get a save. And it has to compete with the likes of Wish, Gate, and uberchargers. I think I'll leave it be.

    EDIT: Sun Poisoning and Sunflash both edited.
    Last edited by Lord_Gareth; 2010-06-08 at 08:46 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    Y'know, I'm half-tempted just to say Hexblade of his class level and call it a day, damnit >.<

    As far as Decree of Annihilation goes, they do get a save. And it has to compete with the likes of Wish, Gate, and uberchargers. I think I'll leave it be.

    EDIT: Sun Poisoning and Sunflash both edited.
    The save is only for them to take 30d6 damage, unless they have improved evasion. Plus, they also get wish and gate.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Fire Magic (Su): Well, here's our dippable level. Cold and Water spells aren't that much of a price to pay. The skill cost to get into the class isn't that bad, and aside from Controlled Immolation, the feat cost I might have as a blaster wizard anyway. +2 to certain DCs and fire resistance aren't bad, but the worst cost might be the caster level. Still, couple with evasion and (maybe) Turn Undead? Might be worth it.

    Evasion (Ex):
    Turn Undead (Su): My only question with these two is why? Evasion gets a little bit of flavor lip service, but Turn Undead (progression) just seems random. And unnecessary? I guess the right cleric could get in, but Turn Undead progression isn't super-duper common.

    Pyromancer's Grace (Su): Might want to reword the first paragraph a bit. "An Infernomancer of second level or higher... may exclude a number of fight foot spheres equal to his intelligence modifier from the area..." The current wording is a bit awkward. Also, you alternate between spheres and squares throughout the ability. The ability itself might be more powerful than it seems. It's basically a WAY better "Shape Spell" feat for only fire spells. Shape spell spares one square for increasing the spell level by 1. Just a note to consider for power considerations.

    Blazing Potence (Su): Jeezus. This is nuts. Like, Planters Mixed nuts. For most of your life, this is basically a free Empower Spell on all your fire spells, and as you get higher, it's basically doubling the power of a lot of them for free. Like, wow. At 3rd level? All day? For free? WAY overpowered.

    Sunflash (Su): ... are you kidding? Maybe the last ability wasn't so bad because I'll just do THIS all day instead. Oh wait, I'll do this, and THEN cast an uber-fireball. A MOVE action? 100ft radius? No chance of screwing my allies? A chance of stunning? And guaranteed dazzled? All day? Hell, twice a round? FOR FREE? Dude, Gareth, I respect you as a homebrewer and all, but I think it's pretty fair for me to give you an AVGN "What were you thinking?" at this point. Even if they're immune to the fire damage, this is still a stun/dazzle nuke. Dazzle isn't impressive, sure, but stunning is crazy. Way, way overpowered. Period.

    Ignite Passion (Su): This is actually pretty cool. Standard action grant someone else rage. Very cool, flavorful. I can see one of these dudes buffing a melee guy and Sunflash-ing every round until they're all raging awesomely.

    Fire Sight (Su): This is fun and flavorful and all... but what does this do for them? I guess there's the DC and caster level boost. That's not bad.

    Everything Burns (Su): I was waiting for this ability. It's the kind of thing any elemental specialist needs. Seems balanced enough. Immunity is still going to make your day sad, but you can punch through it now. Good ability, comes at a fair point in the class. Good stuff.

    Blazing Sunder (Su): This is pretty cool. The fire will be doing enough damage (oy, yes they will) for this to be relevant. You might have issues beating their attack roll, though, assuming a melee-focused class.

    Burn Magic (Su): Also very cool. Good level of power, neat flavor, and a cool trick for a class archetype that usually just ends up blasting. Good effort differentiating them.

    Ignis Daemonia (Su): Wait, what? When did this become a class about demons and hellfire? The ability itself has some... concerns power-wise (with this and Everything Burns, you really don't care about resistance anymore) but the flavor just jumps out of nowhere. I mean, I'm a fire-focused caster up till this point. Suddenly, I'm wielding hellfire and kind of demonic. Random.

    Sun Poisoning (Sp): O...kay? At 9th level in this PrC, I gain access to a... 3/4th level spell as a SLA? As a 9th/10th level cleric? What's the save based on? And... whatever? I don't see this being used.

    Burn the Soul (Su): I guess the save being defined as Wis based doesn't hurt, but that just kind of makes only Clerics care to get this far. It's a cool (and really very strong) power, even if only 2/day, but if I started this PrC as a Wizard... well, I have other stuff to do. Like nuke the battlefield and then throw out some other debuffs or something. This is very near to being a SoD 2/day. It's just really, really powerful. It doesn't have a good spell comparison.

    Decree of Annihilation (Su): >.< C'mon, man. You know better than this. Yes, 1/day and exhausted afterward, but... c'mon. This is still nuts.


    Ok, what I'm seeing here overall is a really, really front-heavy class. I'd say it's, at max, five levels long. 3rd level on average. Sunflash is far and away the best ability these guys get, and after 5th level, the abilities are cute and fun, but I can jump classes without too many qualms at that point. I'm really only missing the capstone, and maybe the whole half-damage-being-unstoppable thing. Again, they're cool, but there's better things to do with my class levels.

    EDIT: You made some minor edits while I was writing this, so disregard concerns about those specifically. Most of these points still stand. And yeah, for balance concerns, remember these guys are still (basically) full casters. They still get all a wizard's tricks, as well as crazy-go-nuts stuff.
    Last edited by Hyooz; 2010-06-08 at 09:29 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyooz View Post
    Fire Magic (Su): Well, here's our dippable level. Cold and Water spells aren't that much of a price to pay. The skill cost to get into the class isn't that bad, and aside from Controlled Immolation, the feat cost I might have as a blaster wizard anyway. +2 to certain DCs and fire resistance aren't bad, but the worst cost might be the caster level. Still, couple with evasion and (maybe) Turn Undead? Might be worth it.

    Evasion (Ex):
    Turn Undead (Su): My only question with these two is why? Evasion gets a little bit of flavor lip service, but Turn Undead (progression) just seems random. And unnecessary? I guess the right cleric could get in, but Turn Undead progression isn't super-duper common.

    Pyromancer's Grace (Su): Might want to reword the first paragraph a bit. "An Infernomancer of second level or higher... may exclude a number of fight foot spheres equal to his intelligence modifier from the area..." The current wording is a bit awkward. Also, you alternate between spheres and squares throughout the ability. The ability itself might be more powerful than it seems. It's basically a WAY better "Shape Spell" feat for only fire spells. Shape spell spares one square for increasing the spell level by 1. Just a note to consider for power considerations.

    Blazing Potence (Su): Jeezus. This is nuts. Like, Planters Mixed nuts. For most of your life, this is basically a free Empower Spell on all your fire spells, and as you get higher, it's basically doubling the power of a lot of them for free. Like, wow. At 3rd level? All day? For free? WAY overpowered.

    Sunflash (Su): ... are you kidding? Maybe the last ability wasn't so bad because I'll just do THIS all day instead. Oh wait, I'll do this, and THEN cast an uber-fireball. A MOVE action? 100ft radius? No chance of screwing my allies? A chance of stunning? And guaranteed dazzled? All day? Hell, twice a round? FOR FREE? Dude, Gareth, I respect you as a homebrewer and all, but I think it's pretty fair for me to give you an AVGN "What were you thinking?" at this point. Even if they're immune to the fire damage, this is still a stun/dazzle nuke. Dazzle isn't impressive, sure, but stunning is crazy. Way, way overpowered. Period.

    Ignite Passion (Su): This is actually pretty cool. Standard action grant someone else rage. Very cool, flavorful. I can see one of these dudes buffing a melee guy and Sunflash-ing every round until they're all raging awesomely.

    Fire Sight (Su): This is fun and flavorful and all... but what does this do for them? I guess there's the DC and caster level boost. That's not bad.

    Everything Burns (Su): I was waiting for this ability. It's the kind of thing any elemental specialist needs. Seems balanced enough. Immunity is still going to make your day sad, but you can punch through it now. Good ability, comes at a fair point in the class. Good stuff.

    Blazing Sunder (Su): This is pretty cool. The fire will be doing enough damage (oy, yes they will) for this to be relevant. You might have issues beating their attack roll, though, assuming a melee-focused class.

    Burn Magic (Su): Also very cool. Good level of power, neat flavor, and a cool trick for a class archetype that usually just ends up blasting. Good effort differentiating them.

    Ignis Daemonia (Su): Wait, what? When did this become a class about demons and hellfire? The ability itself has some... concerns power-wise (with this and Everything Burns, you really don't care about resistance anymore) but the flavor just jumps out of nowhere. I mean, I'm a fire-focused caster up till this point. Suddenly, I'm wielding hellfire and kind of demonic. Random.

    Sun Poisoning (Sp): O...kay? At 9th level in this PrC, I gain access to a... 3/4th level spell as a SLA? As a 9th/10th level cleric? What's the save based on? And... whatever? I don't see this being used.

    Burn the Soul (Su): I guess the save being defined as Wis based doesn't hurt, but that just kind of makes only Clerics care to get this far. It's a cool (and really very strong) power, even if only 2/day, but if I started this PrC as a Wizard... well, I have other stuff to do. Like nuke the battlefield and then throw out some other debuffs or something. This is very near to being a SoD 2/day. It's just really, really powerful. It doesn't have a good spell comparison.

    Decree of Annihilation (Su): >.< C'mon, man. You know better than this. Yes, 1/day and exhausted afterward, but... c'mon. This is still nuts.


    Ok, what I'm seeing here overall is a really, really front-heavy class. I'd say it's, at max, five levels long. 3rd level on average. Sunflash is far and away the best ability these guys get, and after 5th level, the abilities are cute and fun, but I can jump classes without too many qualms at that point. I'm really only missing the capstone, and maybe the whole half-damage-being-unstoppable thing. Again, they're cool, but there's better things to do with my class levels.

    EDIT: You made some minor edits while I was writing this, so disregard concerns about those specifically. Most of these points still stand. And yeah, for balance concerns, remember these guys are still (basically) full casters. They still get all a wizard's tricks, as well as crazy-go-nuts stuff.
    You're kind of flat out wrong about this class's dippability... you want to take it up to ninth if you take it. You lose a CL at first level, dipping just for that is stupid. Dipping out to other PrCs is possible, I suppose, but with a sixth level entry, you won't be able to finish up too many other PrCs unless you leave really early. The 8th level ability is one of the best abilities the class gets besides the capstone, and 9th level, while not necessary, gets you a free will save or die which could be useful if you are a sorcerer with limited spells known, and a free spell that's OK for damage and lowering fort saves.

    If you're dipping in for 5, you miss a much better dispel magic, being able to seriously (rather than slightly) hurt fire immune creatures, and at least four levels where you get moderately to very useful class features every level for no lost caster levels. If you don't get the capstone, that's fine, since you lose a CL for it, but otherwise if you take one level you should probably take them all.

    EDIT: Also stun is useful, but creatures are immune to it far more often than you seem to expect; if it were daze, I'd be in agreement it was stupid. I thought I saw sun flash as a standard; it should be that, rather than a move action.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-06-08 at 09:40 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Eh, edits being made that make most of my comments not mean much anyway.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Just going to chime in and say I see no issue with Decree of Annihilation. Given that you're already building on cleric or wizard? Who cares about 60d6? Not even assuming Wizard X/Incantrix/Abjurant Champion/IotSV or whatever, just straight wizard/cleric 20, this isn't really isn't too crazy. I'd be hard pressed to say anyone would ever even take that last level. I'd rather have the extra spell(s?), myself.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jota View Post
    Just going to chime in and say I see no issue with Decree of Annihilation. Given that you're already building on cleric or wizard? Who cares about 60d6? Not even assuming Wizard X/Incantrix/Abjurant Champion/IotSV or whatever, just straight wizard/cleric 20, this isn't really isn't too crazy. I'd be hard pressed to say anyone would ever even take that last level. I'd rather have the extra spell(s?), myself.
    General rule of judging balance is to compare it to T3 tricks, not the most ridiculous tricks in the game.

    And honestly, even as a uber-hax wizard, I would totally scribe this if it was a spell. Compared to what any other class gets, the capstone is nuts. And getting that with Gate and all the other wizard tricks... yeah.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyooz View Post
    General rule of judging balance is to compare it to T3 tricks, not the most ridiculous tricks in the game.

    And honestly, even as a uber-hax wizard, I would totally scribe this if it was a spell. Compared to what any other class gets, the capstone is nuts. And getting that with Gate and all the other wizard tricks... yeah.
    Not only that, but no wizard trick, barring infinite caster level loops or metamagic abuse, gets 60d6 damage. Hell, even maximized and empowered spells only really get the equivalent of 50d6 assuming caster level 20; assuming you can buff your caster level up to 24, you'll have 60d6 on maximized empowered spells.

    However, the feat requirements for this PrC are rather heavy (three feats) and make no sense, at all. Concentration isn't fluffed up anywhere, and your abilities are all bursts, so why have precise shot?

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    Not only that, but no wizard trick, barring infinite caster level loops or metamagic abuse, gets 60d6 damage. Hell, even maximized and empowered spells only really get the equivalent of 50d6 assuming caster level 20; assuming you can buff your caster level up to 24, you'll have 60d6 on maximized empowered spells.

    However, the feat requirements for this PrC are rather heavy (three feats) and make no sense, at all. Concentration isn't fluffed up anywhere, and your abilities are all bursts, so why have precise shot?
    That's not counting the +10 dice that this class gets already, though. So at CL 20, you're dropping about 30 dice on a fire spell of decent level, which makes the capstone about the same as a maximized version (except for the resistance to Evasion abilities).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyooz View Post
    General rule of judging balance is to compare it to T3 tricks, not the most ridiculous tricks in the game.

    And honestly, even as a uber-hax wizard, I would totally scribe this if it was a spell. Compared to what any other class gets, the capstone is nuts. And getting that with Gate and all the other wizard tricks... yeah.
    You compare to T3 when the base is a wizard or cleric? Because sure, that makes a lot of sense. I'm treating this as though you were a wizard or cleric designed to kill stuff going in (i.e. pumped DCs and save or die spells). In that light, this is totally reasonable.

    Even 60d6 isn't that out there... granted it expends spell levels (or you could use a few metamagic rods), but quickened empowered scorching ray, twinned empowered scorching ray is 54d6 and then 30d6 for Blazing Potence. Granted it's not to a whole area, but just saying. And even that (c. 300 damage) is a massive waste of resources when a single implosion or some such could accomplish more or less the same thing.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eurus View Post
    That's not counting the +10 dice that this class gets already, though. So at CL 20, you're dropping about 30 dice on a fire spell of decent level, which makes the capstone about the same as a maximized version (except for the resistance to Evasion abilities).
    Well yes, but the +10 dice this class gets are pretty OP to begin with, at least as far as blasting goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jota View Post
    You compare to T3 when the base is a wizard or cleric? Because sure, that makes a lot of sense. I'm treating this as though you were a wizard or cleric designed to kill stuff going in (i.e. pumped DCs and save or die spells). In that light, this is totally reasonable.

    Even 60d6 isn't that out there... granted it expends spell levels (or you could use a few metamagic rods), but quickened empowered scorching ray, twinned empowered scorching ray is 54d6 and then 30d6 for Blazing Potence. Granted it's not to a whole area, but just saying. And even that (c. 300 damage) is a massive waste of resources when a single implosion or some such could accomplish more or less the same thing.
    That's two eigth level spells to deal the amount of damage this deals to one target.... although scorching ray gets really broken with the +10 dice it would get to each ray.

    Implosion does less than the capstone ability does; the capstone is (nearly) guaranteed to kill all non martial enemies within its radius, implosion is a single target save or die each round, although Sonorous hum brings it up to the level of actually useful ninth level SoDs.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-06-08 at 10:30 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    Well yes, but the +10 dice this class gets are pretty OP to begin with, at least as far as blasting goes.
    Fair enough, just pointing out that the capstone probably shouldn't be what you're concerned with.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    The only meaningful metric against which a PrC can be judged is its intended entry classes. How does this compare against its entry?

    Would a Wizard give up a spellcasting level for the capstone? I'm not familiar enough with high-end play, but that seems to me to be the only reasonable question that can be posed with respect to the capstone.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    How does Blazing Potence interact with Scorching Ray? Because by class level 5, you're at CL 11 which means three rays. Normally that's 12d6 with three attack rolls, but if the extra damage happens on every ray it's 27d6 with three attack rolls. By class level 10, you can do 42d6 damage from a second level slot. That is... worrisome.

    It's weird that Sunflash is a move action, it would be plenty powerful as a standard action.

    As you have it written here, Infernomancer Evasion is better than rogue evasion, because it works in any armor with any encumbrance level.

    Fire Sight doesn't seem to fit the fluff here.

    Ignite Passion is cool.

    Sun Poisoning is also strange.

    I don't think you have considered the interaction of Searing Spell from Sandstorm with this class. If I took this class, I would also take Searing Spell and some way to drop the adjustment on Searing Spell to +0. Then I would never worry about fire resistance or immunity for my spells ever again. Consider a clause in Everything Burns that keeps it from stacking with Searing Spell.Edit: I was wrong

    Amusingly, Protection from Energy, which I generally look down on, would still work as it normally does against this fire damage. Not terribly significant though.
    Last edited by Glimbur; 2010-06-08 at 11:06 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by DragoonWraith View Post
    The only meaningful metric against which a PrC can be judged is its intended entry classes. How does this compare against its entry?

    Would a Wizard give up a spellcasting level for the capstone? I'm not familiar enough with high-end play, but that seems to me to be the only reasonable question that can be posed with respect to the capstone.
    Seeing as the Wizard gives up nothing besides feats (too many, perhaps), any blaster wizard would enter this, and many people play blaster wizards.

    Since it won't lose his ninths, losing a caster level only really means weakening spells, and all his spells get +2 CL and +2 DC, so he's not losing that, either. Is 60d6 flat out worth a lost caster level? Quite possibly, since when he gets that, it's either get a one per day 60d6 blast, or get a couple more spell slots; assuming he's level 20, he isn't losing any spell levels, so he can still do all the normal wizardy stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glimbur View Post
    How does Blazing Potence interact with Scorching Ray? Because by class level 5, you're at CL 11 which means three rays. Normally that's 12d6 with three attack rolls, but if the extra damage happens on every ray it's 27d6 with three attack rolls. By class level 10, you can do 42d6 damage from a second level slot. That is... worrisome.

    It's weird that Sunflash is a move action, it would be plenty powerful as a standard action.

    As you have it written here, Infernomancer Evasion is better than rogue evasion, because it works in any armor with any encumbrance level.

    Fire Sight doesn't seem to fit the fluff here.

    Ignite Passion is cool.

    Sun Poisoning is also strange.

    I don't think you have considered the interaction of Searing Spell from Sandstorm with this class. If I took this class, I would also take Searing Spell and some way to drop the adjustment on Searing Spell to +0. Then I would never worry about fire resistance or immunity for my spells ever again. Consider a clause in Everything Burns that keeps it from stacking with Searing Spell. Amusingly, Protection from Energy, which I generally look down on, would still work as it normally does against this fire damage.
    Everything burns does have a clause about nonstacking.

    Any multi hit spell is really broken with this class though, I agree. Amusingly, I believe there was some first level spell that caused somebody to take 1d6 each round with a lightning cloud over there head, though I can't recall where it's from (it might have been third party). Energy sub it (which should be a feat requirement instead of the absolutely stupid ones it requires currently) and you can deal 11d6 per round with a personal firebolt cloud. Heh.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-06-08 at 10:34 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    Any multi hit spell is really broken with this class though, I agree. Amusingly, I believe there was some first level spell that caused somebody to take 1d6 each round with a lightning cloud over there head, though I can't recall where it's from (it might have been third party). Energy sub it (which should be a feat requirement instead of the absolutely stupid ones it requires currently) and you can deal 11d6 per round with a personal firebolt cloud. Heh.
    Thunderhead, I believe. From the Spell Compendium

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Thunderhead is in Spell Compendium. I believe it was originally listed as a Cantrip, though that got changed when someone realized how ridiculous it could be.

    Of course, this is not the only effect that does so. A Fell Drain Thunderhead is utterly stupid in its power - a 2nd level spell that adds a Negative Level every round the target fails a Reflex save, for CL rounds...

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Fell Drained Thunderhead still allows a very easy save. And it's only 1 damage, so "only" +10 damage every time you hit with it, instead of 10d6. Still nutty.

    As for fell drained stuff, I prefer fell drained sonic snap or magic missiles for my low level spells. >_>

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    Well yes, but the +10 dice this class gets are pretty OP to begin with, at least as far as blasting goes.



    That's two eigth level spells to deal the amount of damage this deals to one target.... although scorching ray gets really broken with the +10 dice it would get to each ray.

    Implosion does less than the capstone ability does; the capstone is (nearly) guaranteed to kill all non martial enemies within its radius, implosion is a single target save or die each round, although Sonorous hum brings it up to the level of actually useful ninth level SoDs.
    To be clear, the 30d6 was one for each scorching ray spell, not each actual ray/attack roll. That would be 90d6.

    Furthermore, does 60d6 actually kill any level appropriate challenges (not that I have any faith in the CR system)? A 290 hit point balor (CR 20) that's immune to fire? 445 hit point wyrm white dragon (CR 19; and note I've picked white... generally the weakest and the one with fire vulnerability)? A solar (CR 23) has 209, so yeah, the odds are in your favor, it saves at +18 (your DC is probably 32-ish, so again in your favor), but it's got regeneration 15 that will probably pose a problem for you. All of these (except maybe the dragon) can generally kill you in one round as well, so good luck with those dice...

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jota View Post
    To be clear, the 30d6 was one for each scorching ray spell, not each actual ray/attack roll. That would be 90d6.

    Furthermore, does 60d6 actually kill any level appropriate challenges (not that I have any faith in the CR system)? A 290 hit point balor (CR 20) that's immune to fire? 445 hit point wyrm white dragon (CR 19; and note I've picked white... generally the weakest and the one with fire vulnerability)? A solar (CR 23) has 209, so yeah, the odds are in your favor, it saves at +18 (your DC is probably 32-ish, so again in your favor), but it's got regeneration 15 that will probably pose a problem for you. All of these (except maybe the dragon) can generally kill you in one round as well, so good luck with those dice...
    First off: If this class is weak, why do you constantly bring up the most broken element about it to prove the capstone isn't good?

    Second: I said non martial... you can easily kill any other spellcaster with that spell, and it's a 100 foot burst, any trash mobs would be killed off as well. You're fairly selectively picking huge monsters (Dragons especially all have very high hit points), and even the Solar dies in one hit on average (well, it's brought to negative one). Another wizard with even a 26 adjusted constitution score would still probably die to the spell. It takes care of class levelled foes with ease, and it's damage is only matched by metamagic reduction stacking/the broken feature of this class, and not much gets a 100 foot radius burst that's selective and basically ignores immunity, either.

    Yeah, it's not as great compared to Incantatrix, or Illithid Savant, or Shadowcaster, but it's still a very strong PrC that is at least +1 tier, since any multi hit spell essentially becomes a SoD (or, in the case of scorching ray; just die).
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-06-08 at 10:55 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    First off: If this class is weak, why do you constantly bring up the most broken element about it to prove the capstone isn't good?

    Second: I said non martial... you can easily kill any other spellcaster with that spell, and it's a 100 foot burst, any trash mobs would be killed off as well. You're fairly selectively picking huge monsters (Dragons especially all have very high hit points), and even the Solar dies in one hit on average (well, it's brought to negative one). Another wizard with even a 26 adjusted constitution score would still probably die to the spell. It takes care of class levelled foes with ease, and it's damage is only matched by metamagic reduction stacking/the broken feature of this class, and not much gets a 100 foot radius burst that's selective and basically ignores immunity, either.

    Yeah, it's not as great compared to Incantatrix, or Illithid Savant, or Shadowcaster, but it's still a very strong PrC that is at least +1 tier, since any multi hit spell essentially becomes a SoD (or, in the case of scorching ray; just die).
    1. Never said anything about the class on whole. Just said the capstone wasn't overpowered.

    2. You know, other casters, who if played intelligently at all won't have contingent teleport or anything like that, nope, none of that shenanigans... and what martial character is ever a level appropriate foe when you're a 20th level wizard or cleric?

    3. +1 tier? This is a joke, right? Promoting a substandard style of play and maybe even making it semi-viable on a tier one-basis in exchange for not being as good at what tier one is normally defined as is +1 tier?

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jota View Post
    1. Never said anything about the class on whole. Just said the capstone wasn't overpowered.

    2. You know, other casters, who if played intelligently at all won't have contingent teleport or anything like that, nope, none of that shenanigans... and what martial character is ever a level appropriate foe when you're a 20th level wizard or cleric?

    3. +1 tier? This is a joke, right? Promoting a substandard style of play and maybe even making it semi-viable on a tier one-basis in exchange for not being as good at what tier one is normally defined as is +1 tier?
    1. The capstone is powerful, as far as blasting goes. Metamagic abuse to deal similar levels of damage to one target doesn't exactly prove that wrong.

    2. Crafted Contingent Teleports, unlike what arena play tell you, cost a lot of money and EXP over time. Sure, you can rely on them for defence, but then you're going into TO levels. As for martial characters: Again, without going into TO levels, martial foes such as warblades and gishes (T3) are actually relevant, if not directly as powerful.

    3. Yes, it is a +1 tier PrC. For any non TO wizard, it offers him, for minimal entry requirements, the ability to blast brokenly well (Free empower or more on all fire spells, along with a free sculpt spell, and the ability to ignore immunity so blasting is relevant), especially with scorching ray, and against any non TO wizards who don't have a way of breaking LoE as an immediate action (I.E. don't have wings of cover) it's going to kill them.

    You seem to be getting TO confused with PO. Yes, on a TO level, this class is merely good; the fact it removes basically all of the weaknesses of blasters and makes them deal damage that will drop most monsters in two rounds without metamagic isn't *that* impressive, although honestly just that alone is very powerful. But on a PO level, it's a +1 tier PrC, because for little investment, you've made it so that, without throwing TO level stuff at you (crafted contingent spells on every foe, all foes are high HD creatures rather than class levelled humanoids, etc.) you instagib all encounters within a couple of rounds with no way to be immune to it. Hell, even for TO, that's not bad, though not infinite loop level good.

    EDIT: Also, the reason blasting is substandard is generally because it deals low damage, is easy to protect against, and doesn't do anything until your foes are actually dead... but this negates two of those, and plenty of spells are double threats which negates the third. It's perfectly reasonable to play a blaster even in a PO campaign, and for a PO level campaign, this PrC is a definite must have because, hey, piercing immunity, free super-empowers and sculpt spells, a DC increase, and a few minor benefits don't hurt.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-06-08 at 11:30 PM.

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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    *snort*. My spellsurging arcane thesis mailman laughs at your puny "60d6 fire damage" capstone. Really, what blaster worth his salt doles out 60d6 damage per turn at level 16+? Of course, with all the empowering stuff you're doing, a blaster would still drool at the thought of using this class... he'd just only take 9 levels.
    Last edited by Gorgondantess; 2010-06-09 at 12:28 AM.
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    Default Re: [3.5 PrC] "Some people say there's no subtlety to destruction..." [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorgondantess View Post
    *snort*. My spellsurging arcane thesis mailman laughs at your puny "60d6 fire damage" capstone. Really, what blaster worth his salt doles out 60d6 damage per turn at level 16+? Of course, with all the empowering stuff you're doing, a blaster would still drool at the thought of using this class... he'd just only take 9 levels.
    Well, 60d6 fire damage as a standard action, anyway. And there's always Empower Supernatural Ability, if you really need more damage...
    Last edited by Eurus; 2010-06-09 at 12:30 AM.

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