BleachITP Reborn: Discussion & Setup Thread 8

[riccaru]

Or "Higher Strength = Higher Sonido" is incorrect. It goes against the idea of a "Fragile Speedster" archetype. I say we shouldn't connect those two ideas so much.

If someone wants to have lower strength, but be really fast, they should be able to do that.

In other words, it feels like you're trying to hard.

I never said higher strength meant higher sonido, there is still displacement and mass to think about. Yammy is Huge compared to other characters, so he'd have to move a lot more weight. I was saying that sonido and flash steps are fundamentally different, everything seems to point that way. It also seems to point to the fact that you don't need to train to use sonido, just have enough power to do so. Having sonido be a much more animalistic way of moving makes the most sense. How many "fragile speedsters" are there for arrancar in canon? None.

The fastest Espada in canon is the Primera. Who is the strongest that we've seen capable of using sonido. Flash steps goes the exact opposite way, with yuroichi being the fastest and yet being less physically strong than others. It's a very simple thing to see that fragile speedsters are more the shinigami type. It's like how you said body modification isn't a shinigami thing.

[nothingclever]

I would say some level of afterimages is pretty intrinsic.

Maybe Genoveva's better at that "trick", but Edward can still peform it to at least some degree?

Then his degree of ability to make them is the minimum level his speed implies. I don't mind everyone else being better at making after images.

[KnightDisciple]

...That's fully half of the Espada trying for title of "fastest".

Maybe one or two of these characters should either change things up, or accept that they're fast, but others are faster?

Really, the top 3 Espada being really quick makes sense. I point to canon Stark (described as a near teleport, way faster than Bankai Ichigo) and Barragon (who was casually getting up in Soi Fon's business).

Sereg and Pico...no reason they can't have some speed, but honestly, they're not even top 5. I think they just need to accept being slower, if nothing else. Not even Sereg's training blitz there in the stadium can magically close that gap.

[riccaru]

...That's fully half of the Espada trying for title of "fastest".

Maybe one or two of these characters should either change things up, or accept that they're fast, but others are faster?

Really, the top 3 Espada being really quick makes sense. I point to canon Stark (described as a near teleport, way faster than Bankai Ichigo) and Barragon (who was casually getting up in Soi Fon's business).

Sereg and Pico...no reason they can't have some speed, but honestly, they're not even top 5. I think they just need to accept being slower, if nothing else. Not even Sereg's training blitz there in the stadium can magically close that gap.

Yes, but with hard work, determination, and a crap ton of cheating, Sereg can be the segunda. If no one has any objection I'm probably going to delete my last post in HM and change Sereg's character idea to a brutal head on fighter. I've been toying with another character idea that I wanted to impliment, and the speed territory is getting a little crowded.

Edit: Just to make a point, the fastest espada were the Primera and Segunda. Canon has given many reasons to believe sonido is more brutal than flash steps.

[KnightDisciple]

I never said higher strength meant higher sonido, there is still displacement and mass to think about. Yammy is Huge compared to other characters, so he'd have to move a lot more weight. I was saying that sonido and flash steps are fundamentally different, everything seems to point that way. It also seems to point to the fact that you don't need to train to use sonido, just have enough power to do so. Having sonido be a much more animalistic way of moving makes the most sense. How many "fragile speedsters" are there for arrancar in canon? None.

The fastest Espada in canon is the Primera. Who is the strongest that we've seen capable of using sonido. Flash steps goes the exact opposite way, with yuroichi being the fastest and yet being less physically strong than others. It's a very simple thing to see that fragile speedsters are more the shinigami type. It's like how you said body modification isn't a shinigami thing.

Zommari, probably the 2nd or 3rd fastest, wasn't particularly tank-like; his strength and resistance to injury seemed average for an Espada. He was simply fast.

And if you bring "displacement and mass" into this, I'll drop off the truckload of dead kittens (the ones you killed by talking about real world physics in Bleach) on your front lawn/step.

And the fastest shinigami is probably Ichigo in Bankai. Even without his mask, he was literally running rings around Byakuya. He was defending against the onslaught of Byakuya's bankai with little effort and no damage. Granted, he had decent muscle power, as well.

The point being that really, you're trying too hard to use real-world ideas here.

Edit: Rework seems like a good idea. Sereg's personality says "brutal fighter" more than it does "fragile speedster".

Also, deadtiming.

Totally Final Edit, Really: Before deadtiming...

Anyway, does KD's little idea sound good to you? I'd be willing to go for that.

Yes, I'm curious on NC and Callos's thoughts on the idea.

As for After Images, I just never addressed it with Arcelia. I always imagined her use of Sonido to be pretty discreet though, so I imagine she wouldn't really leave any behind, no matter how fast she went. In fact, I'd imagine she could probably dampen the sound of her movement too (which seems like a pretty fair trade off- infinitely handy illusions for Sonido Silencer).

I should note that "Silent Sonido" is a specific ability that Vicente has. Part of his Owl theme and all. Just FYI.
>_>
<_<

[riccaru]

Zommari, probably the 2nd or 3rd fastest, wasn't particularly tank-like; his strength and resistance to injury seemed average for an Espada. He was simply fast.

And if you bring "displacement and mass" into this, I'll drop off the truckload of dead kittens (the ones you killed by talking about real world physics in Bleach) on your front lawn/step.

And the fastest shinigami is probably Ichigo in Bankai. Even without his mask, he was literally running rings around Byakuya. He was defending against the onslaught of Byakuya's bankai with little effort and no damage. Granted, he had decent muscle power, as well.

The point being that really, you're trying too hard to use real-world ideas here.

Zommari was never shown to be much of anything, because Soi Fon ripped him to shreds. Even without any real world physics my points are still 100% valid. Ichigo was not using sonido to outrun Byakuya, he was using Flash Steps, and his spiritual energy was helping him, which futher validates my point, rather then hurting it. There is quite obviously a huge difference in sonido and flash steps, or Ulquirra wouldn't have brought it up. This also fits with it being more animalistic, as Ichigo was being extremely brutal and one minded when he used it.

[nothingclever]

Well when we want to go over to the next thread, here it is.

Anyway, does KD's little idea sound good to you? I'd be willing to go for that.

It sounds fine with me.

[AmberVael]

I should note that "Silent Sonido" is a specific ability that Vicente has. Part of his Owl theme and all. Just FYI.
>_>
<_<

Can't do anything without treading on someone's toes...

I'll just have it be noticeably softer than it should be (IE, not sonic boom), and not leave the usual after images. Possibly find some way to make it stand out from silent- I'll brainstorm on it.

[horngeek]

Zommari was never shown to be much of anything, because Soi Fon ripped him to shreds.

What? Soi Fon would have been taken down easily by Zommari.

Byakuya was the one to rip Zommari to shreds. That fight was AWESOME.

[InyutheBeatIs]

Okay, soooooo. Should I tweak my character or are we good now?

[KnightDisciple]

New thread. Go there.

Well when we want to go over to the next thread, here it is.


It sounds fine with me.