MitD III: You are likely to suggest Tarrasque

[Swordpriest]

The carbosilicate amorph does fit alarmingly well....

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Ok, heres what I think...

He says he isnt like the rest of his kind, so I assume that his kind is ruthless, and enjoys the dark.

[citation needed]

He wont eat children, but that means he CAN eat children.

Yes, most creatures that can eat, can eat children. I would imagine you have, at some point. I certainly have. By which I mean: notice he mentions veal, i.e. cow youngsters. Refusing to eat any kind of baby animal is a moral position, one most of us probably don't follow. The fact he can eat baby animals is not giving us any info that the fact he can eat hamburgers didn't already tell us.

Since it is Xykon trying to make him eat children, we can assume that they are whole, because cut up children wouldnt be as scary

As master256 pointed out, the children are alive.

Based on the assumption that he can eat kids whole leads to the assumption that he either has a very large mouth, can unhinge his jaws, or that his upper and lower jaws are seperate.

Unwarranted assumption. He could eat them one bite at a time, like most of us do when confronted with food that doesn't immediately fit in our mouths. That is what teeth are for.

Since he is unlike his kind, and is nicer and weaker than his kin, why would Xykon take him?

You have yet to present evidence that he is weaker than his kind. And Xykon couldn't know he was nicer than his kind when he took him on. Indeed, there is no actual evidence that Xykon even knows what he is - MitD thinks he does, but that's not the same thing.

I belive that he is the only one of his kind that can cast spells. ANOTHER THEORY- perhaps hes some kind of shapeshifter.

You can of course believe that (free country), but there is no evidence for such an assumption, since we know very little about his kind. As to the second part, that's not so much a theory as a hypothesis. There is a bit of evidence, based mostly on inconsistent drawing of MitD, that he might be a shapeshifter. But... so then what?

Grey Wolf

[silversaraph]

Could the rule of funny/fair use be used to alter the meaning of a skill, IF it's similar sounding or is named the same as another more popular meaning of the skill?

Meaning, for example, if you had a "dig" skill in D&D, could you replace its effects with the "dig" skill in Pokemon, or even just alter it's effects to act like its name? Because if this applies and isn't much of a stretch to the base monster, this opens up hundreds of loopholes in Pokemon alone. The given example of dig (just one example, remember), the skill which would apply to tons of base monsters, would open up the Pokemon version: The one that acts basically like an "escape rope", transferring the character to the last "Pokemon center", or the last place the character got healed by a good person, this case being Durkon. There are a lot of D&D monsters that can "dig" which would mean a lot of them can explain "escape".

Basically, while I really like the idea of Snorlax/Munchlax, if you believe that Rich would use a large copyrighted theme with risky legal repercussions AND incorporate another world's skills into his own, (particularly the latter), then you'll also have to accept the possibility of incorporating ANY OTHER skill from that same world into his own. This would basically allow hundreds of monsters to fit with the skill database of Pokemon and others, completely ruining any chance of figuring it out. Note this idea only applies to worlds with specific skill/ability collections, not restricting one time characters with abilities that apply only to them.

My $0.02 on the copyright issue.

[Lord Bingo]

Could the rule of funny/fair use be used to alter the meaning of a skill, IF it's similar sounding or is named the same as another more popular meaning of the skill?

Meaning, for example, if you had a "dig" skill in D&D, could you replace its effects with the "dig" skill in Pokemon, or even just alter it's effects to act like its name? Because if this applies and isn't much of a stretch to the base monster, this opens up hundreds of loopholes in Pokemon alone. The given example of dig (just one example, remember), the skill which would apply to tons of base monsters, would open up the Pokemon version: The one that acts basically like an "escape rope", transferring the character to the last "Pokemon center", or the last place the character got healed by a good person, this case being Durkon. There are a lot of D&D monsters that can "dig" which would mean a lot of them can explain "escape".

Basically, while I really like the idea of Snorlax/Munchlax, if you believe that Rich would use a large copyrighted theme with risky legal repercussions AND incorporate another world's skills into his own, (particularly the latter), then you'll also have to accept the possibility of incorporating ANY OTHER skill from that same world into his own. This would basically allow hundreds of monsters to fit with the skill database of Pokemon and others, completely ruining any chance of figuring it out. Note this idea only applies to worlds with specific skill/ability collections, not restricting one time characters with abilities that apply only to them.

My $0.02 on the copyright issue.

A bunch of pokémons might be able to explain the escape event -duplicate the power we assume that Snorlax would have used to facilitate the escape of V and Stiffly, but please keep i mind that the creature would also have to explain every other MitD related feature. Allowing for the use of a Pokémon version of an ability is not to invite anarchy, but you are certainly right that if we use one Pokémon skill we "must" allow for them all -which in the case of Snorlax is what we do.
We already have several contestants such as the Grue and the 5th Dimensional Imp that rely on abilities that are described outside the rules of D&D and/or are not statted for 3.5. Thus far it has not been a problem and obviously it has failed to yield "hundreds" of contestants. Snorlax/Munchlax is the one Pokémon that fits the bill (to my knowledge).

So, yes I do think that rich would incorporate the abilities of non-D&D creatures into the story/his world for the sake of the narrative. As for running a risk with copyright I certainly believe one have to be careful to incorporate copyrighted material into ones own story but in the case of Snorlax I hardly think that using one out of a cast of more than 500 Pokémons and the rest of the expanded cast of Pokémon as a villains monstrous compagnion will get Rich in trouble.

[silversaraph]

Bringing Pokemon into the issue... is a problem, to say the least. Besides that normal D&D monsters would then be able to have Pokemon description moves, ignoring the copyright issue, and even besides the fact that there are several Pokemon that already fit MitD characteristics stupidly well, Snorlax/Munchlax being an example...

The other big issue is the equivalent of templates on crack... TMs, Vitamins, and evolution stones. As Bulbapedia shows, and anyone who's ever played a Pokemon game knows, TMs can add whatever ability you want to certain Pokemon types and in some like Mew, all of them. This could give Mega Punch, (miko), earthquake, Dig, Teleport, Metronome, egg bomb (Sorry about the smell!), Rest, Roar (STOP!), Rain dance (Rain helps me sleep), psychic, Secret power/Hidden power, and many others to a LOT of monsters. Vitamins can give whatever strength and stat proportions you want... Evolution stones could explain why, even if he's powerful as an adult, he hasn't "evolved" yet.

Sure, bringing in Pokemon abilities is possible... but it would destroy all hope of guessing what the MitD is. Personally, though there are ones that fit, some perfectly, it opens too many options... and if multiple work, it's impossible to figure out who he is.

[arpin]

This is almost definitely wrong, but why shouldn't it just be a titan?

[Lix Lorn]

Because they tend to be... well, titanic. xD

[Grey_Wolf_c]

This is almost definitely wrong, but why shouldn't it just be a titan?

Because they tend to be... well, titanic. xD

Lix Lorn is wrong, since Titans can reduce their size to humanoid at will. From first post, we've had Titans suggested before, in the mythological sense. Going by straight D&D Titan, I'd say its problems are: no damage reduction against Miko. Can talk. Can't explain Escape very well (only has gate), and can't explain the circus scene (he'd look like a human).

Grey Wolf

[Gift Jeraff]

Speaking of which, how is Snorlax supposed to explain the circus scene? Is it just a "from another universe altogether, incomprehensible to the OOTSiverse, thus inspiring Lovecraftian comments of both beauty and horror" thing?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Speaking of which, how is Snorlax supposed to explain the circus scene? Is it just a "from another universe altogether, incomprehensible to the OOTSiverse, thus inspiring Lovecraftian comments of both beauty and horror" thing?

Mostly, I think we handwave it with "those people in the public are doing what the fanboys of the comic will do when MitD turns out to be a Pokemon: projectile vomit".

GW

[Gift Jeraff]

So was the lady that said it's beautiful a Pokemon fan? Or a fangirl that predicted Snorlax and thinks it's so amazing that she was right?

[Grey_Wolf_c]

"There is someone for everyone in this world"

GW

[Lord Bingo]

Strange as it might sound in the light of my defense of Snorlax against copyright, I too would be a little disappointed if the MitD turned out to be a Pokémon.

[silversaraph]

Speaking of which, how is Snorlax supposed to explain the circus scene? Is it just a "from another universe altogether, incomprehensible to the OOTSiverse, thus inspiring Lovecraftian comments of both beauty and horror" thing?

One of the problems is, again, with TMs. They could give Dream Eater, Attract, Nightmare,Toxic, frustration... to name just a few. Any of these could explain it if the MitD gets confused when there are multiple targets (think of the Harry Potter boggart).

For example, if the Nightmare of the one who vomited is a graphic surgical procedure, this might be less scary to the ones who are just shocked, and even beautiful to a doctor or someone who would view it as the miracle of life. If "evil" means violence loving by default, this would explain the enthusiasm by the goblins, too. This works the other way, too (Attract the goblins, at the other end gross out the one who vomited).

This is in addition to any skills that Snorlax or another might already have. Remember, TM's are templates on crack... and yet, almost always valid.

[Gift Jeraff]

But according to the dialogue, he does nothing but stand there, and neither of Snorlax's abilities (abilities in Pokemon came out in 2002/2003) could explain it.

[Lord Bingo]

In the spirit of the time I would like to suggest that the MitD is a Santa.

Everyone who has ever walked a busy street around christmas time knows that there are an infinite number of Santas.

Santas are invariably male.

Santas native environment is NOT the rainforest.

Depending upon cultural background and personal beliefs as well as the individual Santa one may perceive Santa as both hideous, beautiful, magnificent, ugly, etc.

Santa carries millions of presents around all the time. He is obviously more than strong enough to knock Miko and Windstrider through a wall and send them flying for miles.

Santa has a wide girth that bears witness to his fondness of anything edible.

Santa is able to conjure forth any item he wants to. This explains why the MitD expects wishes to come true.

Being a semi occult creature of divine persuasion it is not unthinkable that at least some Santas might recognize religious rituals upon sight.

Santas girth + strength can certainly explain the earthquake considering the frustration he must have experienced when he of all creatures was denied not only a wish, BUT A TOY!

Being in the wish granting business it is not unthinkable that a Santa would have interpreted the feelings that V and O-Chul must inevitably have felt when Xykon was about to shove a meteor swarm down their collective throats as "wishing that none of this was happening and that they were safe with their friends.

Ancient myths tell of Santa enacting terrible punishment on those that oppose his decrees. Obviously he should be scary.

As well as a fondness for any foods Santa has a fondness of drink. Many a Santa has forgotten his identity altogether as a direct result of this.

Besides HO HO HOs Santas are not necessarily very talkative. Add to that, that many a Santa has been seen staggering around in a drunken stupor and even an otherwise knowledgeable man may be forgiven for thinking that Santas do not actually talk.

Belief in Santa is a bit childish...


Merry Christmas everyone

[silversaraph]

Santa also has remained elusive to proof, in "the dark" if you will, so it's understandable that he would want to be shown to the world.

Santa was also based off of "Nickelas" stone, or the "devil ore" that refused to give copper, now known as nickel. To those like Xykon, they might see the MitD as this interpretation of the devil or another universally scary figure. To people like O-Chul, they might view him as the jolly Santa.

Or as you said, to the "naughty boys and girls" like Xykon/Redcloak Santa would be very frightening at first, while to the good characters like O-chul, they're "nice" and have nothing to fear.


Dang. This fits well.

[TheAnomally]

The MitD is the Tarrasque Snorlax the avatar of the DM of Oots world!

He’s always in the dark (i.e. the characters don’t see him/don’t know who he is).

He can drastically alter the rules and the course of the game itself to keep the story moving/keep the PC’s alive (escape scene).

He can have any abilities considering he can bend the will of the universe itself (earthquake, roar, etc.)

He is highly informed about many game resources (recognizing the half-ritual).

He can’t really die, being the DM and all (thus Belkar’s and Miko’s attacks are ineffective).

Not found in a rainforest.

The DM certainly should be horrible and frightening. He’s more powerful than anything (Xykon’s comment about how scary he should be)

Many DM’s I’ve had, anyway, forget plot points, sometimes major ones (“What gate?”)

Stereotypically, geeks in general sleep a lot, are shy (“It speaks!”), eat quite a bit, aren’t viewed as being attractive, and are often viewed as being immature.

(I couldn’t resist myself. I’m done joking now).

In the spirit of the time I would like to suggest that the MitD is a Santa.

This made me laugh. And It's actually (surprisingly/sadly) a good fit.

[LordShotGun]

Anyone ever notice that MitD had to have used an epic level spell to pierce the cloister on Ochul? Since he made them "Escape" through an epic spell designed to stop just about ANYTHING except a summoning spell and I doubt that was what MitD used.

[Shale]

Per Celia's description of Cloister it only blocks inbound spells. Scrying, teleportation etc that goes from inside the Cloistered area to outside works just fine.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Per Celia's description of Cloister it only blocks inbound spells. Scrying, teleportation etc that goes from inside the Cloistered area to outside works just fine.

Furthermore, anyone that has been inside of the Cloister probably is exempt from the "no teleportation in" clause too, since I doubt Celia & co. teleported out to get their sandwiches, and then had to walk or fly back in.

Grey Wolf

[silversaraph]

Furthermore, anyone that has been inside of the Cloister probably is exempt from the "no teleportation in" clause too, since I doubt Celia & co. teleported out to get their sandwiches, and then had to walk or fly back in.

Grey Wolf

Interestingly, there was a "taco hut" right next to Dorukan's dungeon, about ten second's walk (though that might have been MitD's wishing to get tacos). It's not inconceivable that there would be a "surfway" that close, too.

[Shale]

Furthermore, anyone that has been inside of the Cloister probably is exempt from the "no teleportation in" clause too, since I doubt Celia & co. teleported out to get their sandwiches, and then had to walk or fly back in.

Grey Wolf

They're definitely not protected from teleportation like they are from scrying, since Redcloak (who was definitely inside the original casting) was able to use Word of Recall.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Interestingly, there was a "taco hut" right next to Dorukan's dungeon, about ten second's walk (though that might have been MitD's wishing to get tacos). It's not inconceivable that there would be a "surfway" that close, too.

OK, noted, that could certainly be the case, and absent further evidence we can't call it one way or the other. As circumstantial evidence for "you can port back in if you ported out", I'll add: we know the cloister effect "sticks" to anyone leaving. The cloister mark could perfectly include the exception, just like it continues to protect from scrying. Otherwise, it would inconvenience the caster too much, I feel.

They're definitely not protected from teleportation like they are from scrying, since Redcloak (who was definitely inside the original casting) was able to use Word of Recall.

Yes, but that was inside->inside teleport. We already know that, if you start from the inside, you can teleport wherever you want. We also may need to check the specifics of Word of Recall, since for all I know it's a summoning type of spell.

Grey Wolf

[silversaraph]

Oh man... I'm right back to the cutting board!
You mean "drawing board".
Was he even drawn in the first place?

Thought this was an interesting little tidbit, perhaps MitDs base character was only ever described, never illustrated. Seems like one of the clues Rich mentioned he put into those and recent strips (There's a lot of obvious stuff there). Of course, could be a false positive, but considering most of the stuff has an original illustration, it could narrow a lot down.

[Lord Bingo]

Thought this was an interesting little tidbit, perhaps MitDs base character was only ever described, never illustrated. Seems like one of the clues Rich mentioned he put into those and recent strips (There's a lot of obvious stuff there). Of course, could be a false positive, but considering most of the stuff has an original illustration, it could narrow a lot down.

I have always read this as a reference to the fact that the MitD has always been hidden by darkness and hence he is never actually drawn by Rich.
I think that your idea is an interesting one but far fetched. If you can find a suitable creature that does not come with an illustration it might lend some credence to your theory.

[Earl William]

Pardon me if this has been suggested and shot down, but could be a gibbering mouther? Because they're big (medium but could be advanced to large) have power over earth, eat a lot, are ugly, and very rarely speak properly (ie. not gibberish).

[Savannah]

While a gibbering mouther could probably explain the circus scene, it lacks the Str/SLA/spell to explain the tower scene and the SLA/spell to explain the escape. In addition, it's only CR 5, and the MitD needs to be from a species with a high enough CR that Xykon thinks it will be a significant threat to the Order. So I doubt that the gibbering mouther will fit, unfortunately.

Also, if you're curious what's been suggested, Grey Wolf keeps a good summary in the opening post, so you only have to read it and the last couple of pages

[Earl William]

I suppose the whole "no limbs" also is a con.

[Gandariel]

I don't have my copy of SoD at hand, but i remember Redcloak saying in one of the first strips: the Mitd is attracting even more of the demon beetles

and in SoD we know they come from that gate to.. which plane? i don't remember
if the beetles are attracted by that cooking (and evil spices) they must have something in common with the MitD... maybe the mitd is originary of the plane those spices come from?