Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

[Zorg]

Tyranid and Blood Angels FAQs are now up on the site:

Tyranids

Blood Angels


Short points:

Tyranid special weapon abilities stack.

Doom of M - does not work on units in vehicles, does give cover saves

Shadow of Warp does not work on units in vehicles (probably for consistency with Doom, but also indicates Psychic Hoods, Runes etc would not either!)

The Mawloc may attempt to deep strike on top of enemy units


Blood Angels Vindicators have a large blast

Baal Preds can scout 18" and pop smoke

[Gruffard]

Oh thanks for the links, Side note, I been trying to find them but where do you find FAQS after they drop off the ticker? I been trying to see if there is any FAQs for a few armies I play against, versus just have house rules/role offs. Is there a page with all of the FAQs?

(I am a mostly casual player, not a tourney player but a FAQs correct would be nice.)

[Winterwind]

Oh thanks for the links, Side note, I been trying to find them but where do you find FAQS after they drop off the ticker? I been trying to see if there is any FAQs for a few armies I play against, versus just have house rules/role offs. Is there a page with all of the FAQs?

(I am a mostly casual player, not a tourney player but a FAQs correct would be nice.)

Here.

(To get there from where the site starts at, click at Gaming->Errata&FAQ Articles, pick the game you want Errata for from the list, and then click the Next-button on the page that pops up next)

[Oslecamo]

Why personal icon? Are you deepstriking? Also, pistol is useless, really. Sorcerers have much better usage for their shooting actions than to fire a plasma, plus, you don't need additional source of wounds when you have Perils already.

Kinda random, but plasma pistols seem to be geting weaker and weaker as the editions come out.

Back in Rogue trader they were awesome because you could actualy fire them in melee.

Then they just gave you +1 attack, but if you stood still you could "rapid fire" them, so there was still some reason for a sergeant to take it so you could shoot a couple plasma shots at an enemy if they got in charge distance.

Nowadays, you get one shot from them before you enter melee, so no, not really worth it.

[Gruffard]

Here.

(To get there from where the site starts at, click at Gaming->Errata&FAQ Articles, pick the game you want Errata for from the list, and then click the Next-button on the page that pops up next)

Thanks for the info.

[Closet_Skeleton]

They're not worth 15 points. The old books that have 5 point ones are still worth it sometimes. I've had lone plasma pistol wielding assault marines flying round hurting tank rear armour after the rest of their squad has been butchered. Really useful when you have to chase down a rogue valkyrie after all his friends are dead.

[Thelas]

I've been kinda meaning to try wargames for a while, but I don't want to buy a bunch of figures only to discover I absolutely hate it...
And I don't want to have to buy a big rulebook only to discover I hate it after my first game, either. (that's one of the reasons I like the srd and similar things... no chance they put out a 40ksrd?)
So...

What should I do?
There's a games workshop store somewhere near me that I've seen, if that matters.

[Trixie]

You can try Anima, I guess. They have both SRD and relatively cheap starters.

Or go to 'game learning' event, though I can attest they won't teach you anything.

[Winterwind]

What should I do?
There's a games workshop store somewhere near me that I've seen, if that matters.

At least here, when you come to a Games Workshop and ask for an intro game to see whether you like it, you end up being given one immediately. They have the starting boxes of all of the games they offer set up specifically for that purpose.

[Oslecamo]

What should I do?
There's a games workshop store somewhere near me that I've seen, if that matters.

Go to the shop. Ask the shopkeeper if you can take a glance at the books.

Better yet, see if you can find some people playing and observe (don't touch somebody else's miniatures whitout persmission!) Try to follow a game from start to finish. Kindly ask questions about the rules whitout slowing down the game much.

If you like what you see and hear from the "real" experience then ask the players for the best way to get started. Perhaps somebody is willing to sell you an old ready to go army for cheap.

[Gruffard]

Most gaming communities like more players, more players mean more game possibilities. If the the shop owner/ Games Workshop personal aren't helpful one of the players might.

The watch a game in progess is probably a good start.

40k and all other mini games require multiple people, ask around for help. If they are all jerks you might not want to play with them anyhow.

G'luck.

[Deth Muncher]

Why personal icon? Are you deepstriking? Also, pistol is useless, really. Sorcerers have much better usage for their shooting actions than to fire a plasma, plus, you don't need additional source of wounds when you have Perils already.

I was really tempted to have deepstrikers, yeah. Either the Oblits or Termies or both. I'm not sure yet. And the pistol was mainly because that's how he's modeled.

How many men? You should write this, not default arms on Champion. Also, IMHO, Champion is pointless, 2xPowerfists can be exchanged for 1xChainfist, and I'm pretty sure you can take Reapers only in squad of 5x Terminator, and this one is way too cheap for it.

Again, PFists were based on modeling. Both squads are three man squads, and you can, in fact, use a Reaper in a 3 man squad. You just need to have a 10 man squad before you can use another one. Which is why I have two squads to use them both (I don't actually own ten Terminators).

As above, Chaos Termies are wonderful heavy infantry, you don't want to give them so much fists. They could use some differing equipment for wound-handling.

Well, okay. I mean, I could just say "No, these are...uh...fists. That are power weapons. But not powerfists. >_> <_< I dunno. Most people probably won't care.

Again, how many men? Also - Plasma is good, but if you want to assault, Melta is better. What do you need TL Bolter for? I hope you haven't replaced your pistol with it?
I believe I mentioned the squad number was ten... 9x doods + champ. And you're right, I hadn't realized, if I want to assault then I need meltas instead. But I honestly can't decide if I want to play them as stand 'n fire, or as run up and blast. The TL bolter was a point-fill when I was at 1490. It replaces the bolter, not the pistol.
Also, MoT is... Why not use the same Mark your Lord has?
Because the only reason I got that mark on the lord was for Lash. These guys need an invulnerable save.


No Marks, I take it?
Nope. Ran out of points.


Well... not that Bolter is totally useless here, but... I'd find better use for points, though.
Again, modeling. I could call it something else, but it's modeled with a TL Bolter.

Responded in bold in the quote.

[Trixie]

Go to the shop. Ask the shopkeeper if you can take a glance at the books.

Glance?

Pffft, my frind in FLGS borrowed me a whole pile of books for a week and it didn't helped things. Sure, I saw what the game was about, but then, I begun to see all rules and units as independent entities, which led to various errors in judging their usefulness. One glance will do nothing.

Better yet, see if you can find some people playing and observe (don't touch somebody else's miniatures whitout persmission!) Try to follow a game from start to finish. Kindly ask questions about the rules whitout slowing down the game much.

Again, I played two demo games, instead of looking, and if I didn't pretty much memorized (I have good memory for numbers) most of the relevant tables, I would have no idea what is going on in most cases. Watching will only confuse him.

If you like what you see and hear from the "real" experience then ask the players for the best way to get started. Perhaps somebody is willing to sell you an old ready to go army for cheap.

Well... to actually get that experience, he needs two people that will show him how the game is played - but in remote place, not in the shop. It is simply too busy and environment where no one is staring at you making you afraid to ask questions is priceless. Shop can do only if it is big, or in some wild hour when no one visits.

Seriously, WH40K isn't that difficult, but I'd advise to grab a few games of skirmish wargames, to both feel how it is like, and not to invest too much at the start (skirmish is cheap) if he later decides he doesn't like them.

[Oslecamo]

Pffft, my frind in FLGS borrowed me a whole pile of books for a week and it didn't helped things. Sure, I saw what the game was about, but then, I begun to see all rules and units as independent entities, which led to various errors in judging their usefulness. One glance will do nothing.

It will test your interest. If you look at the rules and think "boring!" and can't memorize anything then it's clearly a wrong choice for you.

If however you find the stat tables awesome and find yourself making 1x1 comparisons it's an excellent sign and seeing the armies as a whole can be solved later. You can't expect to master the game whitout actual experience but you need to start somewhere.

Again, I played two demo games, instead of looking, and if I didn't pretty much memorized (I have good memory for numbers) most of the relevant tables, I would have no idea what is going on in most cases. Watching will only confuse him.

Speak for yourself. I gave my first steps in MTG and D&D by observing other players duke it out.

Well... to actually get that experience, he needs two people that will show him how the game is played - but in remote place, not in the shop. It is simply too busy and environment where no one is staring at you making you afraid to ask questions is priceless. Shop can do only if it is big, or in some wild hour when no one visits.

Eerr, whot? Except if it's tournament day, things are never that busy in my area. And if you're afraid to ask questions, well, you're not going to go anywhere soon. You'll have to ask them sooner or later. And best of all, they're free money wise.

[Zorg]

From today's What's New:

We recently made the Witch Hunters and Daemonhunters codexes available to download as PDFs. Since then, we've received a spate of emails asking questions about the difference between the PDFs and the original, printed copies. Rather than reply to you all individually, I thought I'd try to answer your questions here.

Firstly, the rules for allied Space Marines and Inducted Imperial Guard were originally written to reference books that have since gone out of print, so we streamlined the rules required to allow players to collect an army of Daemonhunters or Witch Hunters.

The Daemonhunters army list uses the Standard Force Organisation chart, which you'll find on page 87 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

The other point that seems to be causing the most confusion is whether or not the PDF versions supersede the printed versions. They don't: you should feel free to continue to use whatever resources you have available to play your games with; the PDF does not overrule or invalidate the printed Codex book.

Yes, this may mean that you and your opponent are using what are essentially different army lists for the same army but not every Inquisition force will comprise of the same elements (highly specialised and secretive forces that they are). And if you'd rather use the same one as your opponent, why not simply decide which version you collectively want to use and share the rules between one another? As for tournaments and gaming events, it's entirely up to the organisers to decide which version to use; it is after all their event.

[Gruffard]

Hey hey, good to know my friend's sister army isn't invalidated in official tourneys. (he has the actual book). Thanks for linking the official statement.

[Zorg]

Well, it seems I missed the bottom of the blurb where they say it's up to organisers to decide to allow induction...

fixed now

[Lycan 01]

That would make me quite irked if I showed up to a local tourney with my physical copy of the Codex and was told I couldn't have inducted troops. That just seems unfair to the people who've put time, money, and effort into building their armies, only to find out that half of it isn't even allowed in a proper game anymore.

Hm... After last nights game and the difficulty I had with objectives, I am pondering if I should convert my last 10 Boyz into Lootas. I could probably do it using leftover Rokkit Launchas, Big Shootas, and Imperial Missile Launchers & Lascannons, as well as a healthy dose of Green Stuff and Plasticard. It'd be a great "Capture Objective and make it Dead Shooty" unit, but I probably need those boyz in the Shoota squad anyway. What do you guys think?

Curse my limited funds, limited models, and unlimited imagination!

[Myatar_Panwar]

Lootas are amazing.

[Closet_Skeleton]

That would make me quite irked if I showed up to a local tourney with my physical copy of the Codex and was told I couldn't have inducted troops. That just seems unfair to the people who've put time, money, and effort into building their armies, only to find out that half of it isn't even allowed in a proper game anymore.

Except every edition does exactly that. People complain all the time.

Space Wolf Leman Russ Battletanks
Iron Warriors Basilisks
Imperial Guard Land Raiders (once upon a time)
Chaos Undivided specific legion armies
Non-generic ork looted vehicles
Black Templar Neophyte Bikers and whirlwinds
Ogryns in Space Ork armies
Snotlings swarms with virus bombs in Ork armies
4th ed style 'nidzilla armies
Ork Madboyz with actual madness special rules
Jump pack Marius Calgar
Heck, the entire pre-3rd ed space ork rules (4th gave them back shokk attack guns and weirdboyz but it isn't enough!)
Squigs in tyranid armies
Non-swarm Necron Scarabs
Things that used to be everywhere in 2nd ed and are now apocalypse only
Pistol and close combat weapon tyranid warriors
Several things from 2nd ed that only recently got brought back in 5th
Frateris Templar/Redemptionist squads in Sisters of Battle armies
Space Ork badmoons mobs consisting entirely of boyz with plasma guns
Space Wolf armies consisting entirely of wolf guard terminators with cyclone missile launchers
Imperial jetbikes for everyone
Assault cannon sentinels
Imperial Guard bikers
Emperor's Children tanks with sonic weapons
Lost and Damned armies and chaos cultists
Eldar Exodite Knights riding dinosaurs
Non-generic daemons in chaos space marine armies
Below full strength space marine squads with two heavy/special weapons
Genestealer cult
Imperial Guard Beastmen
13th company armies (partially)
Heavy weapons in assault terminator units (a long time ago)
Cult terminator units
The Red Terror/Moriah the Chosen/Commissar Gaunt/Schaeffer's Last Chancers/Cypher/Doomrider/Missionry Jacobias/Chaplain Xavier/Alessio Cortez/other lost in limbo special characters
Squats

Okay, one of those isn't real.

Well, it seems I missed the bottom of the blurb where they say it's up to organisers to decide to allow induction...

fixed now

Well, there are tournies that don't allow any codex and you have to use tournie approved homebrew lists in.

[Deth Muncher]

Squats

F---. See what you've done? Now the Lawyer Tyrant Broods will come after you.

[Gruffard]

Guess I am lucky my Codex update for Tau only added stuff.

Some of the above stuff was for Balance and some was so that the actual armies were more different. But yea. With new books coming out some stuff gets outdated/removed/nerfed/etc. Happens with slow changing but still living rule games.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Guess I am lucky my Codex update for Tau only added stuff.

Ethereal special character Aun Shi Tau

Angor Prokk* (you say "who?")
"Pure" kroot hound units (which weren't really a problem).

Spoiler

Show

a 3rd ed Kroot HQ choice special character that was never in the codex

[NecroticPunch]

Excuse me, but what is the most cost-effective way to start a Tyranid Army?

[Closet_Skeleton]

Excuse me, but what is the most cost-effective way to start a Tyranid Army?

Sets like battleforces and 3rd party stores with discounts or ebay. Pretty much the same way you get every army cheaper.

[Cheesegear]

Excuse me, but what is the most cost-effective way to start a Tyranid Army?

Here's what you need to know;

Tyranid Warriors, 90 points (minimum) per box. I'd give ~+30 points of upgrades myself. Warriors are also more expensive. Using spare parts I found out of...I lost count (5 or 6?) boxes of these guys, and by hacking apart a Hive Guard, I made a Warrior Prime.

Genestealers, 112 points per box. Doesn't really contain parts that allow for a Broodlord which makes Genestealers get the HOLY CRAP WHAT JUST HAPPENED reactions from just about everyone. Without the Broolord, Genestealers aren't that great. But still very good.

Termagants, 60-~120 points per box. Without Synapse they. Are. Rubbish.

Hormagaunts, 96 points per box if you know what's good for you. Without Synapse, rubbish.

The Battleforce contains one of each of these things, and makes 350-400 points depending on how many (completely unnecessary) upgrades you want to put into them.
350-400 points (plus Rippers) is actually pretty average by Battleforce Standards.

By $AU, Battleforce is $165. Individual components are $178. You don't even really get a saving or a 'free unit' like the other Battleforces.

Did you read the first post of this thread? Tyranids have a very low points-to-cost ratio, and quickly become one of the more expensive armies in the hobby because Tyranids simply don't have 'individually good' units.

...I might even go so far as to say that there is no cost-effective way to make a Tyranid army...I think I do have to change The Guide after all.

EDIT: Nope. If you don't have money, Tyranids have two stars. I already took into account the 'horde' aspect.

Closet Skeleton says 3rd party sellers. One search on a Popular Auction Site gives me quite a few Tyranid results. However, I'm in Australia so I have primarily Australian results. Which may or may not be helpful for you.

[Closet_Skeleton]

I wouldn't recommend auction sites. It's easy to fall into the trap of buying something because its a good deal and wasting money because you don't really want it. It is however easy to find online stores that offer a 5-15% discount.

[Gauntlet]

Spoiler

Show

Gabriel Seth- 160

Sanguinary Priest- 75
Jump Pack

Scout Squad (10)- 140

Assault Squad (10)- 190

Death Company (5)- 155
Razorback (TL Heavy Flamer)

Baal Predator- 115
Assault Cannons

Vindicator- 145
___
980

I have 20 points spare, which I figure I should probably spend on upgrading my Assault Squads' effectiveness. I could run any combination of meltabombs/meltaguns/infernus pistol, or split up the 10man squads into two 5man units for the extra Sergeant. Or take a missile launcher for the Scouts. Or.. aarg, too many options. It's only 20 points, damn it

My list seems to have got buried. Anyone got any suggestions as to how the last 20 points should go?

[Cheesegear]

So...Um, brainstorm. Thought I might do this, since my last post inspired me.

Here's the value of each of the Battleforces.
Prices and 'free units' are based on current (1.7.11) prices. The points costs are based on estimated reasonable and non-wasteful wargear upgrades.

Space Marines; 380 Points. The Tactical and Assault sprue contains a bunch of upgrades easily getting you into the 400-450 mark. The Rhino is completely free.

Space Wolves; 450-500 Points. The Scouts are half-price and the Drop Pod is free.

Ravenwing Attack Squadron; ~400 Points for Dark Angels. ~250-350 Points for Space Marines. Its a Fast Attack bonanza! Not only is the Attack Bike half-price, but, the Land Speeder is free. And the box comes with about eleventy million symbols and bike and unit and Land Speeder upgrades. If you don't like the symbols that come on said upgrades, file them off. Problem solved.

Chaos Space Marines; 550-600 Points (450-550 if you don't use the Posessed). The Possessed and the Rhino are free. Since the Possessed are free, feel absolutely free to cannibalise their parts and make some sweet conversions instead. You'll thank me for it.

Tyranids; 350-400 Points. Plus Rippers. And that's including non-wasteful upgrades. At least you've got 4 Troops. Plus Rippers. Not really any saving made on buying the Battleforce.

Eldar; 260-350 Points. And most of those points will be the Wave Serpent. And the War Walker is pretty bad on it's own. Slight discount on the Guardians and the Dire Avengers are free. But you've only got 5 of them.

Dark Eldar; ~350 Points. The Reaver Jetbikes are free.

Tau; 330-400 Points. Devilfish is at discount. And the Kroot are free.

Orks; 230-~300 Points. And that's assuming you don't turn the Warbikers into Nob Warbikers. You're getting the Warbikes at about half-price.

Imperial Guard; The Command Squad is half-price. The Sentinel is free.
HQ and x2 Veterans setup; 350-450 Points
1 Infantry Platoon setup; 250-350 Points

Necrons; TBA

[Cheesegear]

My list seems to have got buried. Anyone got any suggestions as to how the last 20 points should go?

What weapons do the Scouts have? You completely fail to mention. Do your Death Company have Boltguns or Pistols, you failed at them too.

If Combat Blades or Shotguns, give the Sergeant a Power Weapon
If Bolters, Heavy Bolter. Also, you'd be an idiot and should have Tactical Marines instead.
If Rifles, Missile Launcher.

Then spend the last 10 points on x2 Flamers for your Assault Squad.

x2 Meltaguns for your Assault Squad.

If your Death Company have Bolt Pistols, give them a Power Weapon, then add a Flamer to your Assault Squad.

Dozer Blade and Siege Shield for you Predator and Vindicator respectively. Then Flamer for your Assault Squad.

...There are lots of ways to spend 20 points. No-one should ever be stuck trying to spend 20 Points. I would kill for a spare 20 points when writing my lists.