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  1. - Top - End - #301
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    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    Except every edition does exactly that. People complain all the time.

    Space Wolf Leman Russ Battletanks
    Iron Warriors Basilisks
    Imperial Guard Land Raiders (once upon a time)
    Chaos Undivided specific legion armies
    Non-generic ork looted vehicles
    Black Templar Neophyte Bikers and whirlwinds
    Ogryns in Space Ork armies
    Snotlings swarms with virus bombs in Ork armies
    4th ed style 'nidzilla armies
    Ork Madboyz with actual madness special rules
    Jump pack Marius Calgar
    Heck, the entire pre-3rd ed space ork rules (4th gave them back shokk attack guns and weirdboyz but it isn't enough!)
    Squigs in tyranid armies
    Non-swarm Necron Scarabs
    Things that used to be everywhere in 2nd ed and are now apocalypse only
    Pistol and close combat weapon tyranid warriors
    Several things from 2nd ed that only recently got brought back in 5th
    Frateris Templar/Redemptionist squads in Sisters of Battle armies
    Space Ork badmoons mobs consisting entirely of boyz with plasma guns
    Space Wolf armies consisting entirely of wolf guard terminators with cyclone missile launchers
    Imperial jetbikes for everyone
    Assault cannon sentinels
    Imperial Guard bikers
    Emperor's Children tanks with sonic weapons
    Lost and Damned armies and chaos cultists
    Eldar Exodite Knights riding dinosaurs
    Non-generic daemons in chaos space marine armies
    Below full strength space marine squads with two heavy/special weapons
    Genestealer cult
    Imperial Guard Beastmen
    13th company armies (partially)
    Heavy weapons in assault terminator units (a long time ago)
    Cult terminator units
    The Red Terror/Moriah the Chosen/Commissar Gaunt/Schaeffer's Last Chancers/Cypher/Doomrider/Missionry Jacobias/Chaplain Xavier/Alessio Cortez/other lost in limbo special characters
    Squats

    Okay, one of those isn't real.
    That's... wow. I support removing some of that stuff, but other things... They sound awesome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Orks; 230-~300 Points. And that's assuming you don't [/b]turn the Warbikers into Nob Warbikers[/B]. You're getting the Warbikes at about half-price.
    To anyone considering getting into Orks, this is a very good idea right here.


    Very nice list, Cheesegear. You gonna add that to the OP to help out the newbies?
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  2. - Top - End - #302
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Bolt Pistols for the Death Company, Snipers for the scouts. I know there are lots of ways to spend 20 points- I was asking for advice on *which* way I should spend them. I'll probably go for the Meltaguns.

  3. - Top - End - #303
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Very nice list, Cheesegear. You gonna add that to the OP to help out the newbies?
    Sure am. I also forgot the Ravenwing squad, but that's there now too.

    Originally posted by Gauntlet
    I know there are lots of ways to spend 20 points- I was asking for advice on *which* way I should spend them. I'll probably go for the Meltaguns.
    There are lots of good things you can do with 20 points. What you do is up to you. Everything I said before is a good option. And which one you choose is up to you. They're all good. I can't make a 20 point choice for you because the options are just so open.
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  4. - Top - End - #304
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Damn, I was hoping for some incredible combination which blew all the others out of the water but I'll live. Anyway, picked up a Death Company box today, which gives me enough Blood Angels bitz to last me through an army or five.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    I forgot to factor in a few things in my preview "Work in Progress" Ork list. I've gotten down to my last 10 Boyz, and I can't decide on adding them to the Shootas, Sluggas, or just converting some or all of them into Lootas. Anybody care to look over the list and offer advice on what to do with the last of 'em?


    Not sure the full points values, but here's the general gist of the force I'm going for...

    -Warboss with 5 Nobs (Eavy Armor, Power Klaws, Kombi-Shootas, Painboy, the usual... )
    -21 Slugga Boyz (Eavy Armor, Nob with Bosspole & PK, 2x Big Shootas)
    -21 Shoota Boyz (Nob with Bosspole (PK or Big Choppa?), 2 x Big Shootas)
    -Trukk (Undecided, will probably convert to Battlewagon)
    -3 Killa Kans (1 Big Shoota, 2 x Grotzookas)
    -3 Deffkoptas (TL Rokkit Launchas)
    -3 Biker Nobs (Power Klaws, Painboy, Da Works. )
    -"Shooty Tank" Looted Wagon (Boomgun, Hard Case, Armor Plates, Rokkit Launcha)
    -"AOK* Transport" Looted Wagon (Red Paint Job, Hard Case, ???)

    Boss, Nobs, and Ard Boys handle infantry, Kans, Koptas, and Bikers handle vehicles, and Boyz cap and hold objectives. Tank Looted Wagon will blast whatever the Zogg it wants, while the Transport Looted Wagon will ferry various units around as fast as its tracks can go and/or getting itself killed in front of objectives to provide cover saves...

    My concerns are...

    -Last 10 Boyz:
    I have 10 Boyz left to assemble, and plenty of bitz and gear left to fully deck them out as whatever I want. Should I add them to my Slugga Boyz, my Shoota Boyz, or make a 3rd Squad of Shootas, taking the Heavy Armor from the Sluggas and giving it to them so they can focus on cap-n-holding objectives? Or, should I bust out the plasticard, greenstuff, and bitz to make a squad of Shootas? Kommandos don't seem like they're worth the effort, even if I have some cool model ideas...

    -Looted Wagons:
    I want to turn the Tank into... well... a Tank. Not sure what the best gear for that is, so feel free to correct me on it. The Halftrack model, I'm not sure about. An AOK Transport would be handy for ferrying around various units if/when needed + expendable cover, but it would also make for an awesome Wartrakk model since its... y'know... a Halftrack. Advice?

    -Trukk or Battlewagon:
    As we all know, just 1 Trukk is not enough to get anything done properly. As it is, I figure a Trukk + AOK Transport combo could help with that problem, but I still dunno if that's a good idea. But then I realized something - the power of the WAAAAAAAGGGH!! allows for infinite possiblities. So, why not make the Trukk into a Battlewagon? Running Boards and Handolds, extra armor plating, a kustom-built Deff Rolla, Moar Dakka, et cetera... Seems like a Rip Roarin' way to get my 'Ard Boyz to the thick of things fastest, eh?



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  6. - Top - End - #306
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Personally I'd probably shove an extra 5 Boyz in each unit, as with Orks it seems that bigger is always better! They'll be Fearless for longer and if they're holding objectives they'll probably need some extra bodies for more staying power. I'm not sure of Ork vehicles maximum transport capacity though, so take the advice with a pinch of salt. Two troop choices might be a bit light though.

    I've bitten the bullet and started a small Chaos Daemon army, if only because I have CSMs already and I can multi-use the figures in two forces. I think I'll wait to see what new stuff comes out towards the end of the year, as I've heard Chaos Daemons are getting a bit of an overhaul come September, but that gives me some time to plan out a force properly before I start buying for once.

    I already know about their problems (expensive Troops choices, expensive HQs, trickling in as reserves during the game, and 33% chance that the wrong half of my army will turn up on Turn 1), but I really think they could be a fun force to play outside of tournaments. I have a few ideas of how to cut-down their weaknesses, but I'm not sure how well they'll work:

    - Have either Plaguebearers or Flamers in each half of my force, to ensure I have a unti with good staying power to act as a fire sink in Turn 1.
    - Skulltaker or Masque as a cheapish HQ to allow more points for Troops.
    - Take large(ish) units of Troops so they can stand more withiering fire before getting to charge in.
    - Icons in every Troop choice, so my later reserves at least drop where I want, if not when I want them to.



    I already have a few things painted up from my CSMs, which cover my Troops choices for now:

    -15 Daemonettes (trading individual stamina for numbers)
    - 8 Bloodletters (Troops with PWs!)
    -10 Plaguebearers

    Works out at around the 500 point mark depending on options. I'm going for a 1000 point Chaos Undivided force to begin with, leaving me 500ish point for my HQ and more units. I'm considering:

    - Masque with the Daemonettes for unit movement abilities, or Skulltaker with the Bloodletters for a nasty Melee unit. 100-150 points.
    - 5-8 Flamers with Warpfire, for much needed firepower and anti-tank capabilities. Not really sure how big the unit needed to be to be useful though. 180 - 320 depending on numbers.
    - As many Bloodcrushers or Flesh Hounds as leftover points will allow.

    My plan would be to put the Bloodletters, Flamers and HQ in the first half of the force, drop the unit close together on one flank, and use the Flamers to mess up any units close enough to fire on the Bloodletters Turn 1. The Plaguebearers, Daemonettes and Bloodcrushers/Hounds would be the other half of the force, sub-optimal, but at least it has a tough unit and lots of bodies should they end up appearing Turn 1 instead. If they do appear as reserves then they're fast moving and will add bite to assaults where things are going badly.

    Any opinions on how this would work, or suggestions for force changes? I'm a complete newb when it comes to Chaos Daemons I'm afraid. Nobody I know plays them and they're barely ever used in the local store, so all I've got to go on is the Codex and Cheesegears newbie guide. They're both useful, but a competitive list is quite hard to glean from them.

    Also, anyone know whether a new CD codex will come out when they update some of the models in a few months time?


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  7. - Top - End - #307
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Shas'aia Toiira, this dreamkill is for you...

    Quote Originally Posted by banjo1985 View Post
    I've bitten the bullet and started a small Chaos Daemon arm [...] I've heard Chaos Daemons are getting a bit of an overhaul come September, but that gives me some time to plan out a force properly before I start buying for once.
    Chaos Daemons is not getting an overhaul. They've got the same Codex that they've always had. The only thing different is new models.

    I'm sure Erloas would have said something, or Zorg would have linked to Warseer or something if there were a new Codex coming out sometime soon. I don't know anything - at all - about a new Codex. Not even a rumour.

    EDIT; No new Codex.

    But I really think they could be a fun force to play outside of tournaments.
    It really depends on your opponent demographic. I, for one, wont even play my Chaos Daemons in friendly games, unless I know - for certain - we're playing Battle Missions or something similar.

    The other thing that you perhaps might not know is that there are a few certain armies that are fun to play in a tournament.

    Have either Plaguebearers or Flamers in each half of my force, to ensure I have a unti with good staying power to act as a fire sink in Turn 1.
    Plaguebearers are exactly what you need, however, you need a lot more than just one unit. Like Scouts. Epidemius is almost mandatory for them to have any effect at all.

    Flamers are sadly a one-shot unit. I've never had more than one round of shooting (at only one unit, of course) with them. My opponents just wont allow them to be on the board for a second turn. Given the fact that Flamers are 35 points each, and don't have the survivability of Terminators or any such like...

    Skulltaker or Masque as a cheapish HQ to allow more points for Troops.
    If you're using Plaguebearers, then you must take Epidemius. There's no two ways about it.

    Take large(ish) units of Troops so they can stand more withiering fire before getting to charge in.
    Yes. ~15-20 will do it. You also need more models so you can take difficult terrain casualties after Deep Striking.

    Icons in every Troop choice, so my later reserves at least drop where I want, if not when I want them to.
    Waste of points. You want Icons in half your units.

    15 Daemonettes (trading individual stamina for numbers)
    8 Bloodletters (Troops with PWs!)
    10 Plaguebearers
    You need just as many Bloodletters as you do Daemonettes. Your opponent is far more afraid of Bloodletters than he is of Daemonettes, as such, he will FIRE EVERYTHING! at them.

    Masque with the Daemonettes for unit movement abilities, or Skulltaker with the Bloodletters for a nasty Melee unit. 100-150 points.
    Masque is not even on the same level as Skulltaker. Take Masque for thematic purposes if you want.

    Skulltaker needs to be on a Juggernaut or Chariot. He's just not that amazing on foot.

    5-8 Flamers with Warpfire, for much needed firepower and anti-tank capabilities. Not really sure how big the unit needed to be to be useful though. 180 - 320 depending on numbers.
    Breath of Chaos is amazing. About 5 of them should do it. Note that they wont survive very long. They have one round of Shooting in them, two, at best. Any more than that, and I want to play your opponents.

    As many Bloodcrushers or Flesh Hounds as leftover points will allow.
    Try fiends of Slaanesh. Just as good - if not moreso - than Bloodcrushers, because of the 12" Assault move means you can Deep Strike a bit more conservatively.

    My plan...
    Null sentence. Can't plan with Daemons. Everything in your plan relies on that very first roll of the game that allows - or doesn't allow - your 'real half' to enter the board, and even then, it only works if your Deep Strikes go according to plan.

    Nobody I know plays them and they're barely ever used in the local store
    That's for reason. They really are that bad.

    but a competitive list is quite hard to glean from them.
    Because Chaos Daemons aren't competitive?

    Ku'Gath
    Epidemius
    Skulltaker on Juggernaut
    3-5 Bloodcrushers (to soak Shooting wounds off of Skulltaker)
    ...As many Plaguebearers as you have points to spare

    Optional; 3 Soul Grinders, or Daemon Princes of Nurgle

    ...This list wont win games normally. It's goal is force a Tabling. Every game. The fact that it needs 3 Uniques. Or two, Skulltaker and the Bloodcrushers aren't essential. Which should give you more points for MOAR! Plaguebearers.

    This should tip you off on just how sub-optimal any other choice is.
    Play 2v2. Have your partner play Nurgle Chaos Marines.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2010-07-01 at 07:27 AM.
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  8. - Top - End - #308
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    I can't find my rulebook right now.

    Silly rules question: Does a unit that rallies count as moving, stopping it from firing heavy weapons/halving the range of rapid firing weapons and can it assault (or shoot at all) on the turn it rallies?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    I can't find my rulebook right now.

    Silly rules question: Does a unit that rallies count as moving, stopping it from firing heavy weapons/halving the range of rapid firing weapons and can it assault (or shoot at all) on the turn it rallies?
    Yes, when you rally, you make a 3" move in any direction that counts as your movement for the turn, and all the other limitations of having moved that turn. Unless you're marines, I think.

    Edit: just checked, yup Marines are super special awesome, ATSKNF means that they auto-regroup and act completely normally. Fearless+ indeed.
    Last edited by One Step Two; 2010-07-01 at 08:24 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #310
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Shas'aia Toiira, this dreamkill is for you...

    *much useful stuff
    Thanks for the advice, and for the images of some of the new releases, I didn't get to see the new stuff before they took them down again. The Daemonette cavalry look very nice in particular, and it's good to know more of the standard models are going to be plastic. No new codex...glad I haven't wasted money on the one I bought last week.

    I'll cut down my icon plans, keep my units large, and take a very close look at Epidemius before I decide on a HQ. I'll probably end up taking Flamers anyway for a one turn shock and awe type thing. I have a Nurgle CSM force too, so a 2v2 with an decent allied army is definitely a possibility...maybe I'll even win a game.


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  11. - Top - End - #311
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by banjo1985 View Post
    - Masque with the Daemonettes for unit movement abilities,
    The Masque, unlike the other special characters, does not have the Independent Character rule. She may not join any units.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Winterwind View Post
    The Masque, unlike the other special characters, does not have the Independent Character rule. She may not join any units.
    ...that pretty much scraps her as any type of viable option then.


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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by banjo1985 View Post
    ...that pretty much scraps her as any type of viable option then.
    Well, she does have practically Zoanthrope-levels of protection with her 3+ Invulnerable save, but yeah... I don't see her living for very long.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Why do Tzeentch Termies get no special mention? Their durability is legendary for their point cost.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    -Looted Wagons:
    I want to turn the Tank into... well... a Tank. Not sure what the best gear for that is, so feel free to correct me on it. The Halftrack model, I'm not sure about. An AOK Transport would be handy for ferrying around various units if/when needed + expendable cover, but it would also make for an awesome Wartrakk model since its... y'know... a Halftrack. Advice?
    Okay. Don't use Looted Wagons just for transport. You're paying extra for a slower and only slightly more survivable Trukk.
    Take some Lootas. Fifteen is a good number, or two squads of 10.
    Grotzookas x2 should be Grotzookas x3. I think I've mentioned that before.
    Shoota Boys are better than Slugga Boys if they're not in transports.
    'Ard Boys are probably not worth it unless they're a bodyguard for a Weirdboy or something.
    You. Need. More. Lootas. I take fifteen and I'm seriously considering taking thirty instead.
    Clarify what "Da Works " means on your Nob Bikers.
    Dropping the Deffkoptas gives you the points for nine Lootas. Take them.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Surrealistik View Post
    Why do Tzeentch Termies get no special mention? Their durability is legendary for their point cost.
    They're like Hammernators, but worse. Also, they're in the Chaos Marines Codex, not Daemons.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Chocobo View Post
    Okay. Don't use Looted Wagons just for transport. You're paying extra for a slower and only slightly more survivable Trukk.
    Take some Lootas. Fifteen is a good number, or two squads of 10.
    Grotzookas x2 should be Grotzookas x3. I think I've mentioned that before.
    Shoota Boys are better than Slugga Boys if they're not in transports.
    'Ard Boys are probably not worth it unless they're a bodyguard for a Weirdboy or something.
    You. Need. More. Lootas. I take fifteen and I'm seriously considering taking thirty instead.
    Clarify what "Da Works " means on your Nob Bikers.
    Dropping the Deffkoptas gives you the points for nine Lootas. Take them.
    So should I rig the halftrack Looted Wagon up as just a mobile firebase, or make it into a Wartrakk?
    While 15 would be a lovely number, I only have 10 models to spare. I'll keep that in mind, though.
    In my experience, my Ard Boyz have fared fairly well. They still get an armor save vs. bolters, can survive the slog across the battlefield, and don't die as easily during assaults. My Shoota Boyz got slaughtered last assault they got into.
    Apparently, I need more Lootas...
    Y'know, the typical Biker Nob mix. Bikes, Painboy, Cyborks, Power Klaws, Grot Orderly, Bosspole, all those awesome saves...
    I'm not dropping the Deffkoptas if I can help it. They've been one of my most valuable units every game I played them in, and I've got the points to spare, anyway.


    Sooo... Anybody else want to weigh in on my concerns? Right now, Lootas seem to be the favorable option, and I'm thinking the halftrakk should be a Wartrakk, though I'm not sure what weapons to give it.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Right Lycan my flatmate playes orks almost exclusively now so I should be able to help you somewhat on what to take ext.

    So from my experence Battlewagons are worth the points always. Deffrolla on them and have them tank shock everything (and I mean everything). Sure your opponant gets a save but seriosly they are awesome, on top of this they can carry 20 boys around and basicaly become a moble firebase of epicness. Being opened toped everyone in the battle wagon can fire. Now picture this a gattle wagon rolling up to a squad of assault marines and unloading 10 flamer templates because its filled with burnerboyz. Taking that many hits let alone wounds means anything is fuged. Forget anything else for transports.

    Ard armor isnt worth it imo unless they have a painboy with them. As FnP only works if you can still get a armor save having that 4+ armor save is gold. A painboy is wasted on normal boyz as most armys have something in large quantitys that gets rid of boyz save.

    Lootas. Wow just wow. My flatmate has started to get some decent rolls at the right time with these guys and ZOMG! having 2 squads of 15 fireing 3 times each is crazy. Sure BS2 sucks and you need 5's+ but really with 45 shots you get quite a few 5's+. Added to the fact that their str7 they are great for light/med vehical popping or for cutting down MEQ's

    A unit hes been using is Kommandos with 2 burner boys and Snikrot. Ambush rule is great and havign 2 burner boys means that your going to get 2 lots of power weapon attacks.

    Oh and a squad of 30 boys with cybork bodies and ard armor is one of the funniest units to use in a 1000 point game

    Theres a bunch of other stuff that ive learnt about orks but its early and im only half way through a coffee.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    You have your FNP rules a bit off. Weapons that ignore YOUR save don't matter, it has to be weapons that ignore ANY save.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    wait what? So I get a save from a meltagun then? or a plasmagun/cannon? From a demolisher cannon as well. Infact the only thing I dont get saves from is close combat attacks. That really doesnt make sence and I dont have my rule book around to make sure of that either..

  21. - Top - End - #321
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by DranWork View Post
    Right Lycan my flatmate playes orks almost exclusively now so I should be able to help you somewhat on what to take ext.

    So from my experence Battlewagons are worth the points always. Deffrolla on them and have them tank shock everything (and I mean everything). Sure your opponant gets a save but seriosly they are awesome, on top of this they can carry 20 boys around and basicaly become a moble firebase of epicness. Being opened toped everyone in the battle wagon can fire. Now picture this a gattle wagon rolling up to a squad of assault marines and unloading 10 flamer templates because its filled with burnerboyz. Taking that many hits let alone wounds means anything is fuged. Forget anything else for transports.

    Ard armor isnt worth it imo unless they have a painboy with them. As FnP only works if you can still get a armor save having that 4+ armor save is gold. A painboy is wasted on normal boyz as most armys have something in large quantitys that gets rid of boyz save.

    Lootas. Wow just wow. My flatmate has started to get some decent rolls at the right time with these guys and ZOMG! having 2 squads of 15 fireing 3 times each is crazy. Sure BS2 sucks and you need 5's+ but really with 45 shots you get quite a few 5's+. Added to the fact that their str7 they are great for light/med vehical popping or for cutting down MEQ's

    A unit hes been using is Kommandos with 2 burner boys and Snikrot. Ambush rule is great and havign 2 burner boys means that your going to get 2 lots of power weapon attacks.

    Oh and a squad of 30 boys with cybork bodies and ard armor is one of the funniest units to use in a 1000 point game

    Theres a bunch of other stuff that ive learnt about orks but its early and im only half way through a coffee.

    What are his HQ units? Because unless he's using the Mad Doc Grotsnik, you're being taken for a ride. Boyz can't have Painboys or Cybork upgrades unless Grotsnik is in the army, and even then the price for 30 Boyz have Cybork would be 150 points for 5+ saves. Compared to 120 points for 4+ saves from Eavy Armor, he'd be an idiot to take that option. So either you're exaggerating about the 30 Boyz with Cybork and Eavy Armor upgrades, or your flatmate is a cheater and an idiot.


    Anybody know what the rules on a converted Loota would be, WYSIWYG wise? I mean, their guns are just supposed to be big masses of dakka, so it seems that models with 3-4 Shootas welded together or a Big Shoota, Imperial Lascannon, and several grenades strapped to each each other would make suitable Deffguns. I mean, I'm sure my friends wouldn't mind or question it, but I'd rather not swing by a local tourney and be told my list is illegal because my Lootas literally don't have enough dakka...



    Edit: I'm lacking my rulebook too, but I'm fairly certain that you roll FNP for any wounds you failed your saves against, and if you pass you simply just don't take the wound. No rerolls, it just doesn't affect the unit.
    Last edited by Lycan 01; 2010-07-01 at 08:14 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by DranWork View Post
    wait what? So I get a save from a meltagun then? or a plasmagun/cannon? From a demolisher cannon as well. Infact the only thing I dont get saves from is close combat attacks. That really doesnt make sence and I dont have my rule book around to make sure of that either..
    You don't get saves from things which are AP1 or AP2.... It just doesn't happen.

    To quote the rule book:

    Neither can it be used against wounds from ap1 and ap2 weapons, power weapons, and any other wound against which no armor save can ever be taken (powerfists, DCCW, rending....)
    Last edited by Myatar_Panwar; 2010-07-01 at 08:21 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Yeah he was using Groznik, that crazy old doctor dude.

    A chaos demolisher cannon (imp guard as well for that matter) is ap3 which means it negates marine saves, but by this ruleing I would get a 4+ fnp save because it only negates MY save not every save, as arty armor or termi armor still get saves.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by DranWork View Post
    Yeah he was using Groznik, that crazy old doctor dude.

    A chaos demolisher cannon (imp guard as well for that matter) is ap3 which means it negates marine saves, but by this ruleing I would get a 4+ fnp save because it only negates MY save not every save, as arty armor or termi armor still get saves.
    That is correct. Assuming that your unit is also T5 or higher, because FNP is also out of the question if the wound has the possibility of inflicting instant death.

    Also you are thinking of the battle cannon. The demolisher cannon (what is on vindicators) is S10 AP2
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Hai guise. I know I just posted a 1.5k list, but as it turns out, the actual fight is going to be 1k, so I'm having to retool.

    My opponent is a Tau player. However, his playstyle seems to differ from many other players: He's only got two squads of Fire Warriors, only runs two Suits (not sure which), and has very few tanks, though several drones with Markerlights.

    So, basically, I need to play a counter list. Also, we're not playing objectives, because he's just trying to get the basics down, and I need to reteach myself how this bloody game works. Now, some of you might think "Wow, you're tooling your list specifically to beat a noob? Harsh." Well, he's not a noob. He's a very competent wargamer, who's just happened to stay clear of 40k til now. So.

    My plan for the 1k list is (since I'm not sure I have it firm yet):
    -Slaaneshi Sorc with Lash, and possibly Wings/Jump Pack to move as Jump Infantry, which may or may not mean he'll be with...
    -Raptors. Six of em. Leader with Dual LCs (since that's how he's modeled), plus two Meltas in the squad. Their purpose is to mop up the Fire Warrior Squads, and/or go for some kills on one of his transports. Also, they can go shoot/assault anything the Sorc moves their way.
    -Two ten-man squads of doods. Each squad will have a Rhino with Extra Armor, and each will have an Aspiring Champ. One Champ has a power weapon.
    -Three Oblits.

    That right there is 1k. Is it sound enough to take on a Tau list? Or should I tweak it?
    Last edited by Deth Muncher; 2010-07-01 at 08:35 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Hrm interesting... think ill be having words to one of my mates about that.


    -edit-

    huh.. your taking lash oblits against a noob? really? Why not make the sorc a demon prince and call it a day.

    I have mad props for any chaos opponant that doesnt take a Lash sorc/prince, since every chaos player ive played bar 1 (in a torni no less!) has taken a lash prince or lash sorc, quickly becomes the most uninteresting thing to play against.

    An hes playing Tau dude... you dont need the lash take something else instead, close combat related and munch him the old fashion way.

    -note- I dont blame you for taking it, as its one of the few viable lists that that codex has sadly, just more of a personal gripe.
    Last edited by DranWork; 2010-07-01 at 08:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by DranWork View Post
    huh.. your taking lash oblits against a noob? really? Why not make the sorc a demon prince and call it a day.
    If he hadn't won every game he played in the last tournament, I'd have thought against it. Also, I lack a DP model, having played Iron Warriors and not having all that much conversion-fu. And I hadn't actually though about using the Oblits to kill stuff, just more to have them be a fire magnet. Well, I mean, hadn't thought of using them in combination with Lash.
    Last edited by Deth Muncher; 2010-07-01 at 08:54 PM.
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  28. - Top - End - #328
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    So, basically, I need to play a counter list.
    You... do? I mean, if your objective is to be a prick, I suppose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    Also, we're not playing objectives, because he's just trying to get the basics down, and I need to reteach myself how this bloody game works. Now, some of you might think "Wow, you're tooling your list specifically to beat a noob? Harsh." Well, he's not a noob. He's a very competent wargamer, who's just happened to stay clear of 40k til now. So.
    That... doesn't justify tailoring your list. At all.



    Quote Originally Posted by Deth Muncher View Post
    My plan for the 1k list is (since I'm not sure I have it firm yet):
    -Slaaneshi Sorc with Lash, and possibly Wings/Jump Pack to move as Jump Infantry, which may or may not mean he'll be with...
    -Raptors. Six of em. Leader with Dual LCs (since that's how he's modeled), plus two Meltas in the squad. Their purpose is to mop up the Fire Warrior Squads, and/or go for some kills on one of his transports. Also, they can go shoot/assault anything the Sorc moves their way.
    -Two ten-man squads of doods. Each squad will have a Rhino with Extra Armor, and each will have an Aspiring Champ. One Champ has a power weapon.
    -Three Oblits.

    That right there is 1k. Is it sound enough to take on a Tau list? Or should I tweak it?
    Please format this correctly. However, as immediately comes to mind, a Wings Prince is better than the other Chaos HQs in basically every way.

  29. - Top - End - #329
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by DCGFTW View Post

    Point 1: You... do? I mean, if your objective is to be a prick, I suppose.

    Point 2: That... doesn't justify tailoring your list. At all.

    Point 3: Please format this correctly. However, as immediately comes to mind, a Wings Prince is better than the other Chaos HQs in basically every way.
    Formatted for responding.

    1. The sad thing is that I know I'm still going to lose, prickish counterlisting or not.

    2. The fact that any other wargame I've played against this guy (namely Warmachine/Hordes) I've been trounced royally has made me slightly bitter This guy is, however, a good friend of mine, and as I said before, even with tailoring, I'm still likely to lose.

    3. I hadn't actually realized there was a proper formatting technique. It's only been recently that I've posted in here. Also, I lack a Prince model.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xyk View Post
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Guess basicaly what it boils down to is the fact that your taking a torni fav list vs an army that doesnt often appear in torni's for a reasion. Simple fact is it doesnt matter if he's kicked your arse repeatedly in every game youve ever played, this is 40k nothing really ever goes to plan.

    An also if hes that good perhaps its something your doing thats wrong? Bad movement, bad deployment, bad unit choice comes to mind.

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