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  1. - Top - End - #151
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFighter15 View Post
    And running towards a Wraithlord without you being able to do anything to stop them.
    Wraith lord won't be the problem, skimmers and bikes will. If my opponent wants to split his wraith lord away from the rest of his army to lead off 100 points of models that can still shoot 24" in a differant direction that's fine by me.

    Rage is the nearest "visible" enemy, with small units you can use rhinos to block off line of sight.

    An attempt at a "balanced and fluffy" 1500 pts blood angels list.

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    HQ
    Librarian
    Jump Pack, fear of the darkness, might of heroes, hand flamer
    135 points

    Elites
    Sanguinary Priest
    Bike, Power Sword, Melta Bombs
    105 points

    Sanguinary Priest
    jump pack, melta bombs
    80 points

    Troops
    5 death company
    bolt guns, c
    100 points

    10 Assault Marines
    2 flamers, sergeant with power fist and hand flamer
    235 points

    10 Assault Marines
    2 melta guns, sergeant with thunder hammer and infernus pistol
    255 points

    10 Tactical Marines
    plasma gun, missile launcher, sergeant with power fist
    205 points

    10 Tactical Marines
    plasma gun, plasma cannon
    185 points

    Fast Attack
    2 Attack Bikes
    multi meltas
    100 points

    2 Attack Bikes
    multi meltas
    100 points

    Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2010-06-24 at 02:06 PM.
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  2. - Top - End - #152
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    An attempt at a "balanced and fluffy" 1500 pts blood angels list.
    Looks solid, but the only thing that sort of makes me go "huh?" Is the tac sergeant with a power fist. From the lack of transport he appears to be pegged as an objective sitter, which is sub-optimal. I'd recommend scouts with rifles and a missile launcher. Hell you could even outfit the scout sergent with a powerfist and I am reasonably sure it will be still a little cheaper.

    Just my 2 thrones.
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  3. - Top - End - #153
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by One Step Two View Post
    Looks solid, but the only thing that sort of makes me go "huh?" Is the tac sergeant with a power fist. From the lack of transport he appears to be pegged as an objective sitter, which is sub-optimal. I'd recommend scouts with rifles and a missile launcher. Hell you could even outfit the scout sergent with a powerfist and I am reasonably sure it will be still a little cheaper.

    Just my 2 thrones.
    Cheaper, but less accurate and easier to kill.

    I was going to give him a razorback and combat squad him, but it didn't seem worth the points to have one tank in my army.

    Objective sitters need to be able to defend objectives, so its not exactly wasted.

    Stupid parody Blood Angels List

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    HQ
    Astorath the Grim
    220 points

    Troops
    16 Deathcompany
    Land Raider Crusader with multi melta and extra armour
    595 points

    16 Deathcompany
    Land Raider Crusader with multi melta and extra armour
    595 points

    16 Deathcompany
    Land Raider Crusader with extra armour
    585 points

    total: 1995 points


    So yeah.

    Or slightly less silly (in one way)

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    HQ
    Astorath the Grim
    220 points

    Troops
    10 Death Company
    8 with power sword and bolt pistol, 2 with thunder hammer and bolt gun, chaplain lemartes
    530

    10 Death Company
    8 with power sword and bolt pistol, 2 with thunder hammer and bolt gun
    380

    10 scouts
    missile launcher, sniper rifles
    150

    10 scouts
    missile launcher, sniper rifles
    150

    9 scouts
    missile launcher, sniper rifles
    137

    Heavy Support
    Storm Raven Gunship
    Twin linked multi melta, twin linked lascannon, extra armour
    215 points

    Storm Raven Gunship
    Twin linked multi melta, twin linked lascannon, extra armour
    215 points
    Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2010-06-24 at 03:34 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #154
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    I've decided that I have too many friends, and as such I am going to put together Cheesegear's Tournament Army to try and scare a few off them off.

    For those who don't remember it (and would enjoy revisiting one of his first battle-reports) then please have a look over at this post, here.

    Seems like fun, no?
    Problem is, I have precious few Space Marines and a limited budget. Boo!
    I do, however, have copious amounts of Eldar sitting around doing nothing much at the moment. Two different Armies that are allowed to take Sniper Rifles as Troops Choices, you say? It must be fate. Lets see how they compare unit for unit, and if the sum of the parts makes a whole that is as deadly as the (Comp Score: 2) Hawk Lords.

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    HQ: Autarch (Captain Fal'Kon?) - Jetbike, Laser Lance, Mandiblasters
    The Eldar equivalent to Captain Falcon. Same Bike rules, almost same armour saves, same CC weapon, slight differences in the Stat line. Unfortunately the Autarch still only manages T4 even after the bonus for the bike, making him vulnerable to Power Fists and anything bigger than a Krak Missile - being a lonely IC makes that an especially big problem.
    Having said that, he's considerably cheaper than Captain Falcon so I'd probably be more inclined to take the risk in order to get that s6 Power Weapon doing it's thing.

    Elites: 8x Fire Dragons
    Exarch, Dragonbreath Flamer (Optional, it costs 0)
    Wave Serpent, Star Engines, Twin-Linked Shuriken Cannons
    First big hurdle that the Eldar fall at; their Deep Striking units are rubbish compared to Sternguard in a Drop Pod.
    Swooping Hawks are fragile things with weedy little guns (certainly no match for Combi-Melta) and though an improvement Warp Spiders still don't compare because their guns are AP-. Both units have their uses and preferred targets, but Sternguard eat everything regardless.

    So instead of Deep Striking/Poor Weapons, I went for the alternative of Great Weapons/"Alternative Delivery System". Everyone knows how good Fire Dragons are, and even though they lack the versatility of Combi-Melta a Flamer tossed into the mix sorta takes the edge off a little bit. The idea behind the Wave Serpent is to Zerg-Rush forward 24" in the first turn, and hope it survives a 'splodey death long enough to deliver it's payload deep in enemy lines in the 2nd. Not an altogether unlikely occurrence, thanks to Fast moving Holo-Fields.
    After that, it doesn't really matter much it it lives or dies, hence the cheap weaponry and lack of other upgrades - just like a Drop Pod, in that respect.

    Troop: 7x Rangers
    Troop: 8x Rangers
    Troop: 8x Rangers
    Troop: 8x Rangers
    Eldar fail!
    Rangers are simply more expensive than Scouts - there's no way around it, and despite matching Model-for-Model so far this is where the cuts had to be made.
    Which is a shame, really - I would have like to have upgraded one of the Squads to Pathfinders, just to make sure that I force more of those Pinning checks on an enemy squad that I really want pinned, but without cutting more models and reducing the effectiveness of all the units it probably isn't going to happen. Then again, the lack of options for Ranger units (no Heavy Weapon, like the Marines can get) was always going to hurt, so perhaps I shouldn't complain too loudly.

    Heavy: 5x Dark Reapers
    Exarch, Tempest Launcher, Fast Shot
    Heavy: 3x D-Cannon
    Heavy: 3x D-Cannon
    Eldar Success!
    Despite the yawning gap in points cost, I think that the Dark Reapers are a vast improvement on the Devastators, and a trio of D-Cannon - though hampered very slightly by their comparatively short range - are at least as scary as one Thunderfire Cannon. One could perhaps make the argument that the Thunderfire's different Ammo-types give it a further tactical advantage over the 1-Shot-Wonderous Xenos weapons, but quite frankly, who cares? One side has tactical variations, and the other kills everything it touches, which as far as I know is a pretty viable tactic....

    Total cost: 1501 points

    By and large, it's not a bad list. The HQ Choice is a much bigger concession for the Eldar than it is for the Marines as he's so darn squishy - a truly awful list would possibly make room to swap him for Karandras and send him in solo, or (even worse?) a couple of cheap Farseers that do nothing but 'Doom' the opponents in order to make up for the niche that's missed by a lack of Pathfinders.


    TL;DR - Space Marine Scout/Sniper lists are more broken than Eldar ones, but it's probably not as big-a gap as you might think. I'll start putting together some Rangers and let you know for sure when I can....
    Last edited by Wraith; 2010-06-24 at 08:47 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #155
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Maybe you should ask GW?

    But, are you really worried about your Inquisitor not having access to Hellpistols and Power Fists when you have access to Inferno Pistols and Power Stakes, and Chuirgeons, Penitents and Crusaders and Mancatchers for your acolytes?
    It's mostly a fluff thing. I kinda homebrewed an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor armed with those two weapons before I'd ever seen the actual Witch Hunters armoury.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Speaking of Space Marine Scouts with Sniper Rifles, how effective are they against fellow Space Marines? Honestly, I've never tried using them in large numbers simply because I don't have access to the models yet, but from what little I've seen it seems like Scouts will have an extremely difficult time against Space Marines. Their BS is alright, since they have a 50/50 chance to hit and a 50/50 chance to wound. The Power Armor and the high Leadership value is extremely hard to bypass though. I've only ever pinned a Space Marine squad once. Maybe I'm just unlucky?


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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    The Eldar equivalent to Captain Falcon.
    No Reaper Launcher? Lets him pump out Relentless S5, AP3 shots as opposed to Hellfire Rounds.

    being a lonely IC makes that an especially big problem.
    Captain Falcon has this same problem. And T4(5), is still only T4. Falcon is also vulnerable to Power Fists. It's why I've swapped him out for Lysander.

    Which Eldar can't exactly match. The Avatar is cheaper than Lysander. But, in comparison to Lysander, Avatar fails because Avatar can't join Sternguard. Scratch that.

    Fuegan is a suitable alternative.
    Feel No Pain, Eternal Warrior and 3 Wounds. He has T4, so he's just as tough. But 4+ Invulnerable, rather than 3+. However, Fuegan has I7, WS7, and 4 Attacks. Eternal Warrior means he can mess up Swarmlord and Mephiston for a bit.
    S5, rather than S10. But, gets it at stupid-Initiative value and still rolls 2d6 for Armour Penetration.

    Yeah...Fuegan counts for Lysander. Double if you put him with Fire Dragons like Lysander with Sternguard. Fuegan is exactly the same points cost as Captain Falcon and Lysander.

    Everyone knows how good Fire Dragons are, and even though they lack the versatility of Combi-Melta, a Flamer tossed into the mix sorta takes the edge off a little bit.
    Pretty sure just a few weeks ago, people were telling me that Dragon's Breath Flamers were rubbish. They're not. And I'm glad someone agrees with me.

    Wave Serpents are way better than Drop Pods.

    Then again, the lack of options for Ranger units (no Heavy Weapon, like the Marines can get) was always going to hurt, so perhaps I shouldn't complain too loudly.
    Don't forget the Scouts' ability to Combat Squad. You'll probably get about the same amount of casualties, but, double the potential for Pinning checks. I suppose Eldar get AP1 on To Hit rolls, so, it's probably about the same.

    [Thunderfire Cannon] has tactical variations, and [D-Cannons] kills everything it touches, which as far as I know is a pretty viable tactic....
    It sure is a viable tactic. D-Cannons are so good.

    Also, I had a rematch last night with that Tyranid player...Look forward to that Battle Report.
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    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2010-06-25 at 02:08 AM.
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    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    I am quite excited! When do we get to read it?
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Regarding D-cannons, how do you keep them safe from stupid crap that drops down from the sky?

    As far as i can see most armies have something that can either deepstrike, or come out from the wrong table edge, and all my opponent have to do is to gank 2 guardians, before the D-cannon is down.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    I am quite excited! When do we get to read it?
    When I get it written.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Regarding D-cannons, how do you keep them safe from stupid crap that drops down from the sky?
    How does anyone do that? I'd like to know. Alpha Strikes that work are pretty much a game-changing move. Rematch vs. Tyranids. Coming tonight. You should read it.

    Surround them with other units, put them in cover? That way they land on something and take difficult terrain casualties or mishap rolls.

    AFAIK, Space Wolves have the only defense in the form of Rune Priests. Because Librarians are the shiznat. And Malleus Inquisitors have Mystics. But, Inquisitors are still psykers, and therefore, awesome. But, neither of those things actually stop Deep Strikers.

    And Land Speeder Storms' Jamming Beacons. But, again, they don't stop Deep Striking, they just wreck it.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2010-06-25 at 03:32 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
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  11. - Top - End - #161
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Over thinking things slightly, but it seems that in 5th edition, the flaw of the red thirst isn't that they have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a draw back free advantage, but that their advantage only has a 1 in 6 chance of working.
    Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2010-06-25 at 09:25 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    But 4+ Invulnerable, rather than 3+.
    Aw man, I wish. But Fuegan, as with all the Phoenix Lords except Asurmen, has no invulnerable save.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    I'm making a "Imperial Fists successor reunion" squad made up of differant chapters. The Soul Drinkers one looks the coolest. Pity I don't have the money to make an army of them.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    talking about replacements for lysander or the like in an Eldar copy cat (or really any eldar army) it is surprising that Yriel was not mentioned.

    He has 5 (on the charge) ws 6 attacks which wound anything on a 2+ and ignores armor at init 7 which will crush most anything. He sports a good armor save (3+) and and Invulnerable (4+). For when he really needs to win vs a true mob he can go super nova with s6 ap 3 large blast to take out half a squad if not the whole thing. He lacks Eternal warrior which hurts but can kill most things which lack an invulnerable in 1 turn. Oh and if you like reserves he adds 1 to those rolls

    also Asurmen has the equivalent of a power weapon bonesword making him a good candidate for replacement
    Last edited by crazedloon; 2010-06-25 at 02:43 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    No Reaper Launcher? Lets him pump out Relentless S5, AP3 shots as opposed to Hellfire Rounds.
    I had, to be honest, forgotten that jetbikes make the rider Relentless so well spotted there. The difference is +/- 1 Ranger, and since it's already pretty hopeless to match Marine Scouts 1 on 1 I doubt that the difference will be particularly apparent.

    Yeah...Fuegan counts for Lysander. Double if you put him with Fire Dragons like Lysander with Sternguard. Fuegan is exactly the same points cost as Captain Falcon and Lysander.
    Come to think of it, most of the Phoenix Lords would be a good stand-in for Captain Falcon. Admittedly only Fuegan has the synergy with the Fire Dragons, but unleashing Jain'Zar, Maugan Ra or particularly Karandras to go IC-hunting would be fun, depending on the enemy.

    The reason that I didn't suggest Fuegan to begin with is that I wanted a more accurate analogue to Capt. Falcon - a guy on a bike with a power weapon - just to see how they compare.
    If I were going for a horribly unfriendly list, one of the 'Lords would certainly make the cut, but as you did I decided against it to go for a deliberate 'Composition: 2' score rather than automatic '1'
    Also, he tends to over-shadow the Fire Dragon Exarch when he joins the Squad. He gives the unit Tank Hunters and has a Fire Pike, which makes the Exarch redundant except for taking a Flamer which means that he works out at +12pts for +1 to a bunch of stats he doesn't need and a 'free' flamer. It's a silly weakness, but I quite like my Exarchs and I like them to do well without their gig being stolen by a Phoenix Lord.

    Pretty sure just a few weeks ago, people were telling me that Dragon's Breath Flamers were rubbish. They're not. And I'm glad someone agrees with me.
    To be honest, it's more a matter of having different tools for different fights, and the flexibility of ignoring Cover Saves makes the whole unit a bit closer to Sternguard analogues. Having said that, at the time I did a agree that having a Dragonbreath Flamer is better than not having one for the same reason that you gave - if you can't kill a target with 9 meltaguns, having a 10th won't help you so you might as well make sure it can kill something else instead

    Wave Serpents are way better than Drop Pods.
    And they darn well better be, at 3x the points cost (minimum). For this example though, they're a means to an end for helping the Fire Dragons.

    It sure is a viable tactic. D-Cannons are so good.
    Y'know, I used to run a squad of D-Cannon for quite a while, overlooking my Mech-Eldar army and the best thing I ever did was swap them out for Dark Reapers. 24" ranged Artillery, in the games that I was playing, seemed to be crippling compared to the other options available.
    I now see their value and realise how I was going wrong, but at the time they were guaranteed to be the most dangerous threat to my own Wraithguard on the table in most games and that sort of impression doesn't die easily!

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Regarding D-cannons, how do you keep them safe from stupid crap that drops down from the sky?
    Warlock with Conceal, and plant them deep inside a piece of ruined architecture. Hope like hell that your Cover Save holds out until the nearby Dark Reapers/Wraithlord deals with whatever is menacing your table edge.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedloon View Post
    talking about replacements for lysander or the like in an Eldar copy cat (or really any eldar army) it is surprising that Yriel was not mentioned.
    It was deliberate. I didn't mention him because he doesn't do anything else for the army.
    Master Strategist (+1 to Reserve rolls) is fine, if you have units in Reserve; This army doesn't. And while the Spear of Twilight is awesome, he's still only a weedy T3 that offers no other bonuses to the unit he joins. That means he's dead-weight while he's traveling with the Fire Dragons, a liability if he drags them into close combat for protection (if not a direct threat to his own side when Eye of Wrath goes off and wipes them out with it) and terrifyingly vulnerable if he leaves them to go solo.

    Plonk him into a unit of Banshees, or in a Warlock Bodyguard with a Doom/Fortune Farseer (especially with Embolden somewhere in the group), and he's brilliant. With Fire Dragons.... not so much.

    also Asurmen has the equivalent of a power weapon bonesword making him a good candidate for replacement
    Aye, as I mentioned above most of the Phoenix Lords are a good choice for a HQ in this list, however the problem is he needs to get close, quickly, in order to be effective and the only way to do that is to hop onto the Wave Serpent for transport. Which he can't do, sadly, because he cannot join the Fire Dragon unit due to him being of the Dire Avenger Aspect.
    Fuegan is better because he kinda makes up for no Invulnerable save with Feel No Pain, and both Baharroth and Karandras are good choices because they can Infiltrate/Deep Strike and make their own way to where they need to be.
    Last edited by Wraith; 2010-06-26 at 10:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Fuegan is better because he kinda makes up for no Invulnerable save with Feel No Pain, and both Baharroth and Karandras are good choices because they can Infiltrate/Deep Strike and make their own way to where they need to be.
    I didnt think FNP worked on anything that ignored his 2+ save to start with?
    (well, allmost anything)
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razaele View Post
    Speaking of Space Marine Scouts with Sniper Rifles, how effective are they against fellow Space Marines?
    Not well. That's why I keep telling people that one squad of Scouts with Rifles do nothing. You need lots and lots and lots of Scouts for it to be effective. But, by the time you get to the third 'lots', people are crying.

    Quote Originally Posted by crazedloon View Post
    talking about replacements for lysander or the like in an Eldar copy cat (or really any eldar army) it is surprising that Yriel was not mentioned.
    No it isn't. I know Yriel. I didn't mention him for a reason.

    He lacks Eternal warrior which hurts but can kill most things which lack an invulnerable in 1 turn.
    He. Lacks. Eternal Warrior. He is T3. Plasma weapons and Assault Cannons will kill him. He doesn't come close to Lysander. He also doesn't cause Instant Death. Putting him up against Mephiston, Swarmlord or Skulltaker will only end in disaster.

    Lysander can at least go a few rounds with the Top 3 (though I still think Mephiston doesn't belong there because half the time he doesn't work, Sanguinor is way better), if not outright win against them.
    ...I thought Fuegan had an Invulnerable. Turns out he doesn't (Eternal Warrior and FNP kind of make up for it though). But, still, with 8 or 9 Meltagun friends, he bakes Mister Phisty and Slaw.

    Can kill most things which lack an Invulnerable? So can a lot of things. And you don't need to be a Unique to do it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wraith View Post
    If I were going for a horribly unfriendly list, one of the 'Lords would certainly make the cut, but as you did I decided against it to go for a deliberate 'Composition: 2' score rather than automatic '1'
    Ah...Lysander has put my Comp in the drain. Lysander is a Unique, which would drop me pretty low if it wasn't already. And everyone knows that if you see Sternguard (and nothing else good, really) and Lysander in the same list, you should starting groaning.
    Lysander puts me in the toilet. Falcon doesn't.


    Now someone needs to post something that I completely agree with that I don't have to answer, that way I can write my Battle Report and not double-post.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2010-06-25 at 06:59 PM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    After several months of dragging my feet, I've finally decided to pick up a Soul Grinder. I'll miss the money, but now I'll officially have something in my Khorne army that can shoot things.

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Now someone needs to post something that I completely agree with that I don't have to answer, that way I can write my Battle Report and not double-post.
    Cheesegear is awesome and needs to post his battle report.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    "We've found him," said the Sergeant. "We've found Ultionis..."

    Rematch vs. Tyranids. Or, Class is in Session, sit down. Shut up.

    /sigh
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    So, last night I headed into the club, since it turns out you guys love my battle reports, I was hoping to play my Hawk Lords, bring out Captain Falcon and see if he could get a fourth Avatar under his belt. Or at least try and Falcon Punch a Wraithlord.

    However, instead of the usual "Siege!" greeting I usually get
    ...Fine, I'll explain it...Cheesegear, CG, Seej...Newbie heard it, saw I liked Missile Launchers and Imperial Fists, thought everyone was saying 'Siege'. Now it's me.

    One of the better players came up to me and said "I heard you lost to that guy."
    - "Yeah, I did."
    "He reckons he flogged you."
    - "Well, not really. He took Swarmlord and Wrahgls in a thousand points. I didn't think he was that good."
    "Did you have D.L. Hammerman?" (Darnath Lysander)
    - "No. But my Librarian took out Swarmlord anyway."
    "Oh, he says Swarmlord kicked the crap out of your Librarian."
    - "Swarmlord didn't even get a wound. My Librarian killed himself taking out Swarmlord...Son of Dorn and all..."

    Then turdface yells across the room "Nobody believes that I beat you! Play me again and let them watch me beat you."
    - "Nah, I want to play someone else, I played you last week."
    "Why? Can't hack looosing again? These guys reckon you're good and I kicked your arse."
    - "I thought it was only a Minor Victory?"
    "Dude, I almost wiped you out."
    - "But you didn't. You don't get points for almost doing something-"
    "PLAY ME AGAIN!"

    My friend says "Dude, just kick his arse. Shut him up. You don't have to take that kind of crap from him."


    Space Wolves Imperial Fists' 1st Company
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    Librarian Goku Ultionis - 140 Points
    Terminator Armour, Chooser of the Slain
    Saga of the Beastslayer
    Living Lightning Kamehameha Wave, Murderous Hurricane Earthquake

    Wolf Guard (x3) - 99 Points
    x2: Power Weapon and Bolt Pistol
    Power Fist and Combi-Melta

    Grey Hunters (x9) - 210 Points
    Meltagun, Mark of the Wulfen
    + Drop Pod: Deathwind Missile Launcher

    Grey Hunters (x9) - 205 Points
    Flamer, Mark of the Wulfen
    + Drop Pod: Deathwind Missile Launcher

    Grey Hunters (x9) - 205 Points
    Flamer, Mark of the Wulfen
    + Drop Pod: Deathwind Missile Launcher

    Long Fangs (x6) - 140 Points
    x5 Missile Launchers

    Total: 999 Points

    It turns out when Ultionis sucked himself and Swarmlord into the Warp, he popped back out the other side, and he's been teleporting and training this whole time trying to get back to the Phalanx. He's lost his Storm Shield, but, having been training this whole time, he's upgraded his Avenger power to send massive fireballs across the battlefield as well as the ability to cause Earthquakes by yelling really loudly. We also note that he's been fighting large monsters all over the place.
    ...Everytime he teleports...Swarmlord follows. Ultionis doesn't want to fight the Swarmlord again, but, still, it follows...And now he can't run anymore.

    "Librarian, we've been searching for you for months-"
    "It's seemed like only a week to me..."
    "You've still got your Terminator Beacon active, we can teleport you to the ship and get you home-"
    "NO! We end this. Now. I am a Son of Dorn, and I will not let this beast escape again."
    "Are you sure?"
    "I've sparred with xenos from the Halo Stars themselves - I'll barely break a sweat here." said Ultionis, quoting Champion Do'Urden.

    ...You guys haven't met Champion Do'Urden yet. He won pwned the Feast of Blades.

    For those interested
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    Feast of Blades (besides being Imperial Fists' fluff and therefore awesome) was an event the local GW had around Christmas where you had to have a non-IC character fight everyone else. Gain +2 Wounds. Max 3. No more than 150 points in the case of Walkers, etc.

    Chapter Champion - 145 points (estimated)
    Relic Blade and Thunder Hammer
    Digital Lasers, Auxillary Grenade Launcher

    The best one was when he poomphed a Krak Grenade to Insta-Kill an Eldar Warlock. After being so broken, I named him Do'Urden.


    ...This was a list I put together for a tournament just after the Tyranid Codex came out. It's not my favourite list since there's no Bikes or Scouts. But, it works.


    Stay in School, kids
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    Anyway, he ended up going the same list. I wanted to play my 1750 Dark Angels Hawk Lords that had lots of Bikes and Captain Falcon in a Land Speeder, and Assault Terminators with Heavy Flamers. But, he was adamant in playing 1000 points.

    I don't know why, perhaps he knows that his bulls* list doesn't work over 1000 points? Anyway, the fact that he was playing the exact same list, for friendly games (rather than changing it every week to try out new things like normal people), maybe he probably wasn't a good player? Or hadn't yet found a good 'internet list' that he could copy for 1750.
    Anyway, if he was a normal person, he would've changed his list so I don't know what his exact tactics are.

    Anyway, we rolled up for Mission and Deployment. Annhilation. Again. He seemed happy about that. Deployment was Spearhead. Again. Apparently the Emperor wants the rematch to actually count. I rolled for first deployment. I chose to deploy in the corner that gave my opponent the least amount of cover. Common mistake in Spearhead is that a lot of people choose the quarter that has the most amount of cover for themselves.

    Due to being a bastard, that meant that his side of the board had no LoS blockers and a small block of rocks. I deployed Ultionis right the corner, and I put his Chooser of the Slain slightly off-centre of the board in a building where it could see pretty much the entire battlefield. The Long Fangs went just in front of Ultionis. Keep in mind that I was away from terrain of any sort.

    I then explained that I was attaching my Wolf Guard to units (this takes like, ten minutes if you have more than say, five), he didn't seem particularly interested.

    "Where's your Vindicator? No Thunderfire? I beat your Scouts already. This will be so easy."
    "...I don't have Scouts."
    "Wait...What?"
    "This is the part where I declare my other three units in Reserves in Drop Pods."
    "Hah! Three units in Reserve? Do you even have a guy who gives you bonuses like Swarmlord?"
    "No."
    "Hah! That's dumb. You're never going to get your units in."
    "Okay."

    Because there was no cover to be had, he pushed his deployment with Swarmlord and a unit of Hormagaunts, and he deployed his other Hormagaunt unit in the rocks for cover. So, he failed the Seize the Initiative roll, and he couldn't read my p-p-p-poker face.

    So, my first turn, because I have an odd number of Drop Pods like a clever person, I brought down both units with the Flamers in. What he didn't realise was that by pushing his Deployment Zone (DZ), he left his whole rear empty. Enter a Drop Pod each right next to both of his units Hormagaunts.

    The Long Fangs opened fire on Swarmlord. 5 Krak Rockets = 4 Wounds to Swarmlord. Ultionis began a'charging his laser. Swarmlord tried to cloud his mind with Shadow, except Ultionis had been fighting Swarmlord for a whole week (the Sergeant said Ultionis had been gone for months, but, either time goes differently in the Warp, or Time Flies when you're having fun ), and Ultionis had developed his Avenger attack to streak across kilometres because closing with Swarmlord hadn't ended well the last time.

    Swarmlord had to check is psi-tracker...Ultionis' power level was breaking through the Shadow of the Warp, delving straight for the source. Swarmlord must have been retarded or something, didn't he know that he was dealing with a Chaneller of the G*d Damn Emperor?
    What does the psi-tracker say? 9001.

    Ka...Me...Ha...Me....Ultionis rolls a '6' for his 'Assault D6' roll...HA! The Chooser of the Slain gives Ultionis a Ballistic Skill of 5. Saga of the Beastslayer gives him re-rolls to hit vs. Monstrous Creatures. 6 hits. Captain Falcon in a Land Speeder would be proud. At S7, Ultionis was wounding Swarmlord on 3s. 5 Wounds.
    Swarmlord fails four 3+ saves that even the Space Marines are embarrassed for him.
    (Seriously, that was all luck {because Statistics aren't real}. Not that my opponent saw it that way).

    Swarmlord is downed in the first turn. Kill Point the first.

    From there, the Grey Hunters open up Rapid Fire Bolters and Flamers into the units of Hormagaunts. Both units break on Ld 6 and run.

    On his first turn, the Hormagaunts can't rally because there's Drop Pods within 6" and they keep running.

    My second turn. The Grey Hunters chase down the Hormagaunts and put more Bolters and Flamers into the Hormagaunts. The other unit isn't even in cover anymore and doesn't get cover saves from the Bolters anymore.
    Kill Points the second and third.
    I didn't even get to put Large Blast Deathwind Launchers into his Hormagaunts.

    His second turn, he rolled a 3 and 4 for his Reserves. He got happy, until I pointed out that Swarmlord wasn't a b0rked Space Marine Unique, and his abilities don't work if he's dead. So, his Wrahgl Genestealers came onto the board fairly far away because I'd put my Long Fangs and Ultionis in the corner away from terrain.

    My third turn. My third squad of Grey Hunters Dropped down near terrain. And at least tried to put in a few Bolter rounds into the 'Stealers. The Grey Hunters had moved towards my deployment zone to rendezvous with Ultionis, the lost Librarian.

    The Long Fangs put Frag Missiles into the 'Stealers killing another couple. Then Ultionis let off an Earthquake to screw with the Genestealers killing the rest bar two. To their credit, they're Ld10.

    His third turn, the Zoanthropes came down next to the Long Fangs and Ultionis. They tried to use their psychic powers. Ultionis blocked one with his hat, and failed the other (50:50 is the only reliable statistic), however, the AP3 Blast went wide and hit Ultionis instead of the Long Fangs. But, with a Power Level of over Nine Thousand, Ultionis can simply bat away crap fireballs like that, well, that or Terminator Armour is awesome. I vote both.

    The Genestealers tried to move to Assault the Melta-Hunters, one died due to Ultionis' Earthquake screwing them royally. The 'Stealer barely made it into Assault. He killed one.

    The Grey Hunters, having an ex-Deathwatch member (those who remember, I represent Mark of the Wulfen with a Deathwatch pad on the right shoulder), who had fought xenos all over the place, showed the Genestealer how it was really done, by rolling a '4' for his attacks. And killing it.
    Kill Point the fourth.

    On my fourth turn, the Grey Hunters moved towards the Zoanthropes letting off some Melta shots, killing one. The Long Fangs split their fire, two Krak rockets going to the Spore, and three going to the Zoanthropes.

    The Zoanthrope died, and the Spore, being a T4 Monstrous Creature is secretly a joke. Kill Points the fifth and sixth.

    End.


    Results/TL;DR
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    6-0. Also Tabled. Flawless. Victory. But not really because he managed to kill one 15 point model.
    I didn't even use a Unique. Well, actually, let's face it, Space Wolves don't need them.

    I think the guy was about to have an aneurysm. I said 'good game' and tried to shake his hand. He slapped my hand away and told me to go f* myself. Which actually surprised people at the table next to us, who couldn't imagine me being such a terrible opponent to get that reaction.

    Except then the other people watching the exchange remembered that he was that guy and he had provoked 'The Siegemaster'. There could only really be one outcome.
    My friend came over and asked how it went. He commented that "You shouldn't poke bears."

    Ultionis gained a first name.


    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
    Quote Originally Posted by Shas'aia Toriia View Post
    Cheesegear is awesome
    Maybe those are jokes. But, now I have to sig them.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2010-06-25 at 11:20 PM.
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    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
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    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
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    Cheesegear is awesome

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Okay, that was pretty awesome. I could just see the guy's face, almost ready to explode. Makes me want to play some space vikings.


    But seriously, awesome game. And insights! I didn't think of that cover thing. Good to know.

    Heheh, gives me inspiration to write up a battle report of my own. Just wish I could make it to my FLGS anytime soon. :\ Ah well. BBQ partytimes with the GF are far more important.

    Anyways, rock on! Keep schooling those that deserve it, Cheesegear. I'm sue we'll all be watching with interest. Expect to see an exploit in the adventures of Cannoness Alrissa and her renegade Sisters, the Burning Tears. Coming soon to a Warhammer thread near you!

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattarias, King. View Post
    But seriously, awesome game. And insights! I didn't think of that cover thing. Good to know.
    If you're going first (and you actually have an army that can shoot), find the quarter - or half - that gives your opponent the least amount of cover, and take the opposite.

    If you're going second (and your opponent has an army that can shoot), then, yeah, take the corner/half with the most cover. You'll need it. Not that you can choose, just hope your opponent makes a silly mistake.

    Heheh, gives me inspiration to write up a battle report of my own.
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    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2010-06-26 at 01:38 AM.
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    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
    Cheesegear, have I told you yet that you're awesome?
    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
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    Cheesegear is awesome

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Marvellous work, Cheesegear. Were I in your position I might not have been as calm as you. I'd have probably been a bit more smug and taken a bit too much pleasure at seeing him crack.

    Still; when someone goes around bragging and lying like that, they deserve to be ground into the dirt so nice work.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Rematch vs. Tyranids. Or, Class is in Session, sit down. Shut up.


    That was really, really brutal. So naturally I whole-heartedly endorse exactly what you did there.

    Also, that guy really had it coming. So I guess you get approval from the Emperor on all accounts.

    Man, I need to play same games. I sink hours every week into painting but nobody else who plays lives near me, plus I don't really have any gaming stores I could go to, what with the nearest place not running any 40k games and the GW 'nearest' to me being impossibly impractical. Lame.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Well, it really is pretty stupid to not change your army list, if you suspect an opponent might make a counter-army.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Tyranids 1000 points

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    Tyranid Prime
    Lash whip and bonesword, adrenal glands, spinefists

    Elites
    Venomthrope

    Zoanthrope

    Troops
    16 Genestealers
    Broodlord

    17 Genestealers
    Broodlord

    16 Genestealers


    Just thinking I could compete better at a lower points level.

    If that guy had footslogged his zoans and bought a single tyrant guard instead of a spore (and 2 hormagaunts) he'd have done a lot better. The zoans could have given the swarm lord a cover save for one and been throwing warp blasts at you from the start and would have the synapse to stop his gaunts breaking. The spore is pointless unless you need to kill tanks.

    Looks like a case of throwing lots of "good" things into a list and not thinking about how they're going to work together. Which is especially stupid when playing with the one codex that rewards you for playing a balanced list.
    Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2010-06-26 at 06:39 AM.
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Was looking over the Spearhead coverage Beasts of War did a few weeks ago and I'm wondering if this eldar Spearhead list is as cheesy as they make it sound in the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vck-pV8_8fo

    Incidentally; has anyone here actually tried a Spearhead game yet? It looks like a very fun game just from the battle report in WD (although that might just be me being a bit of a tread-head ).
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowFighter15 View Post
    Marvellous work, Cheesegear. Were I in your position I might not have been as calm as you.
    Maybe that's why I get good Sportsmanships and nobody can imagine me being a bad opponent.

    Still; when someone goes around bragging and lying like that, they deserve to be ground into the dirt so nice work.
    Quote Originally Posted by Klose_the_Sith View Post
    That was really, really brutal. So naturally I whole-heartedly endorse exactly what you did there.
    People endorse me curb-stomping someone?
    And I always thought that this game was supposed to be fun. But, apparently he deserved it.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Well, it really is pretty stupid to not change your army list, if you suspect an opponent might make a counter-army.
    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    Looks like a case of throwing lots of "good" things into a list and not thinking about how they're going to work together. Which is especially stupid when playing with the one codex that rewards you for playing a balanced list.
    I didn't exactly make a counter-army on purpose. Or, rather, I didn't actually think I would curb-stomp him as terribly as I did. If a Rune Priest rolls a '6' for his Living Lightning roll, he'll basically annihilate whatever he's pointed at. But, that rarely happens. 1 in 6 chance, even. By rights, Swarmlord should not have died in the first turn, and his Gaunts should have been Fearless for a turn or two and charged my Grey Hunters.
    ...That still would have ended badly due to Grey Hunters being so totally awesome, or, even if the Hormagaunts did win, I had Deathwind Launchers as backup, or something.

    If Swarmlord hadn't have died on the first turn, both his Reserves would have come in on Turn 2 instead of one-by-one...

    Quote Originally Posted by Closet_Skeleton View Post
    The spore is pointless unless you need to kill tanks.
    Most armies usually have tanks. He didn't know what I had (in fact he probably thought I was playing the same army as last time, or something), and I didn't know what he had. It was only after deployment and his declaration of Reserves that he had the exact same list as last time...

    Maybe people missed this part;
    "This was a list I put together for a tournament just after the Tyranid Codex came out."

    This particular army list (or, the 1000-point 'core', the full 1500/1750/1850 has Vindicators and Blood Claws-in-Land Raiders) was designed for a tournament, so, it was supposed to be pretty strong against all-comers (although it doesn't look like it, but, Alpha Strikes are a game-changing move). But, it was also designed specifically with Tyranids in mind - being the flavour of the month at the time.

    Like I said, I didn't mean to curb-stomp him so terribly. However, to him, it definitely must have looked like I just took him to school.
    Last edited by Cheesegear; 2010-06-26 at 08:05 AM.
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    Cheesegear; Lovable Thesaurus ItP.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lycan 01 View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeatShield#236 View Post
    ALL HAIL LORD CHEESEGEAR! Cheese for the cheesegear!
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    Default Re: Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesegear View Post
    Most armies usually have tanks.
    How many do you usually see in 1000?

    I'm trying to make a 1000 point blood angels list.

    How many multi melta attack bikes is "enough" at 1000 points and what powers should I give my librarian when he's going to be wearing a jump pack and leading an assault squad?

    I was thinking:

    Blood Boil
    Good but not reliable.

    Fear of Darkness
    I'd probably go with this one. Nice long range.

    Might of Heroes
    Good since I can cast it on the power fist sergeant and turn him into a more reliable Wolfen.

    Shackle Soul
    I don't want to rely on my enemy taking unmodified leadership tests. Plus short range, if i have to be near assault range then I want to assault, which would make this power useless. If it was long range or I didn't have jump packs it would be pretty good though.

    Shield of Sanguinius
    I'm taking Priests so a pseudo-venomthrope sounds like overkill unless my opponent has a rediculous ammount of AP2.

    Smite
    Sounds a bit too close to "Every time a wizard casts a spell from the cleric's list, for that turn he's a chump".

    Blood Lance
    I have melta bikes so a short ranged lance seems like overkill.

    The Sanguine Sword
    Awesome, but I'm going to have a power fist in the unit and it seems like this power is best if you're an epistolary, so you can force weapon monstrous creatures or combine with might of heroes and I don't have the points for an epistolary.

    Unleash Rage
    Cool but I want a librarian, not a pseudo chaplain.

    Wings
    I'd rather pay the points for a jump pack and not risk slowing down my assault squad.

    So it would probably be Fear of the Darkness and Might of Heroes.
    Last edited by Closet_Skeleton; 2010-06-26 at 08:34 AM.
    "that nighted, penguin-fringed abyss" - At The Mountains of Madness, H.P. Lovecraft

    When a man decides another's future behind his back, it is a conspiracy. When a god does it, it's destiny.


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