Warhammer 40K Tabletop VII: Common Sense is not RAW.

[lord_khaine]

Well, at least it sounds like the Space Marine was fun to play against.

[ZeltArruin]

“No Vindication for me today, tanks anyway!”

Fixed for awful pun.

[Lycan 01]

Awesome stories, Everison.

Bummer about those Ork guys, though. I get the feeling your last Battle Report is going to leave me feeling a bit dissappointed and sorry for you, considering its those guys again and you kinda foreshadowed that your bit of kindness would not get responded to in kind.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Despite one being a tournament organiser, they still showed up with an illegal list. They got called on it at the start though, and they just so happened to have enough models to make a legal list. Seems like they were trying to sneak that first list through the net.

At the tournament I went to you lost points if you submitted an illegal list and still had to use a legal one. I lost points despite my list being legal since I'd paid for upgrades I hadn't written that I'd taken.

[Winterwind]

I won't even try to measure up to all these battlereports by relaying how my rematch against that Vulkan He'Stan-using player yesterday went. All I'll do is relay the wisdom I gained from that game.

Never ever do something just because everyone watching the game is urging you to do so when you have the feeling it might be a bad idea.

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Specifically: The game had been going great for me. He used his usual Landspeeder+Scouts+PowerfistSergeant trick to tie down my Havocs, only this time the Havocs slaughtered the Scouts without taking any significant losses. The Landspeeder was shot down; the Havocs blew away the main gun from his Vindicator; my Raptors managing to destroy his Land Raider Redeemer; his Droppodding Sternguard with mass combi-meltas were obliterated (including the drop pod) by my troops without causing any significant damage whatsoever. All he had left was an Ironclad to come down in a drop pod (and I thought I had enough stuff that could deal with it), his Assault Terminators with Vulkan, and two Razorbacks with 5 Tactical Marines each, while my army was almost untouched (it was a 1750 points game).

The Terminators were a slight problem perhaps, but they were up against 10 Chaos Space Marines with two meltas, 6 Khornate Berserkers with a powerfist bearing champion (two berserkers had died before) and 6 fully armed Noise Marines, including a powerweapon bearing champion, as well as a Slaanesh-marked Sorcerer. They ran into a hail of fire, while the Sorcerer kept perpetually lashing them away. Finally, when only one Terminator and a wounded Vulkan were standing there, I decided I could risk charging them for the sake of them being gone more quickly, freeing me up to deal with whatever else he had, and so I did, with the 6 Berserkers (with powerfist champion), 6 Noise Marines (with powerweapon champion) and a Slaanesh Sorcerer. I wasn't sure whether to take that risk - I could just keep lashing them backwards, after all - but figured probability was fully on my side, and the observers all kept urging me to have my berserkers charge and be done with it.

A few rounds of combat later, everything I had charged into there was gone, and he had taken no losses whatsoever.

Which ultimately lost me a game I would have almost certainly won otherwise.

I now consider this guy's dice my personal archnemesis.

[Cheesegear]

Fields of Blood Battle Reports.

The doubles tournament was 2 armies of 1000 points sharing a Force Organisation chart with the “take one of Elite, Fast Attack and Heavy support before taking a second of any of them. Same again for taking a third.”

That's actually a pretty good rule. But, would be irrelevant if you used Comp Scores. If you used Comp Scores, you'd kind of be expected to do that sort of thing.

*Our List*

The Chaos players' (yours?) list makes me

The Musical Wounds Nobz aren't too bad as there's only three of them.
Also, why 2x30 Orks instead of 3x20?

Opponent: Space Wolves and Old Skool Marines – His list had a lot of great ancient tanks.

But nope, those scouts can’t hide there due to 18”. *Sigh of relief* Chasing scouts up 3 levels of difficult terrain is never fun.

Don't I know it. It's the most fun I have deploying an obejective in a 3-storey building and putting my Scouts at the top.

The Lootas on the other hand sniper the lone Rune Priest before he can mess with the Warboss!

The Rune Priest had Jaws. Pfft. It's not like he was using Living Lightning (REAL LIGHTENING!).

With enemy forces buried in a tide of Blue, the plague marines roll up and park on the objectives and put the kettle on.

...Now I want to have something or someone stereotypically 'British' just so I can use this line.

Opponent: Crimson Fist Space Marines and Aztec Space Wolves

The thunderbirds (Thunderwolves modelled as Marines surfing Giant eagles, unit champ on a griffon and Wolf Lord on a carnasaur) and Cold ones (Fen. Wolves) deploy just behind the gunline.

Oooh...'Surfing' Giant Eagles? Do you remember what they looked like? Sounds like a rocking unit and now I must do one for my Hawk Lords...Because.

Yggdrasil face palms then flies over to help, flicking out the Lash.
Inspiration strikes us, the Lash allows us to move each model up to 8”… “Hey Spess Mareens, it’s conga line time!

...Do you know how amazing this would be if you combined it with Jaws of the World Wolf?

EDIT for people who think I'm for totally cereal:
Not very. Jaws is pretty weak.

The warboss actually survives the attacks and prepares to reap a terrible insta-killing vengeance… only for all 4 storm shield saves to be passed. Dang it!

Storm Shields are the bestest. Next to Force Weapons.

Opponents: Necrons and Necrons, played by GW staff.

While it was a bit of a cake walk, our opponents were pretty cool and the game was still fun.

Necrons usually are if you can force a Phase Out.

Opponents: Orks and Orks, played by the only “Tourney Scum” at the event.

They whine that it should be fine “because it was allowed in the last Throne of Skulls tournament”.

Oh man, this is why I love my regular TO. "But the last tournament I went to..." is actually a pretty common response to anything in the negative that a TO says. My favourite TO just gives people that look for about ten seconds before saying "Who gives a s*? This is my tournament. And I'm saying you can't do it."

Apparently winning at all costs is Serious Business.

You mean it isn't!? OMG my whole life is a lie!

As they start counting up VP, I check the rulebook. Immobilised vehicles can contest an objective, which means we had won!
However, despite how horrible they have been to play with, that would be a pretty sorry way to win a game, and we let them play out the assault phase they declined earlier. The Deff Dread kills the buggy and it goes back to a draw.

Wow...And I thought I was a good sport. Had it been me, given that choice against arse opponents, I wouldnt've let that happen. I tip my hat to you, sir.

Opponents: Space Marines (Red Scorpions) and Not-Ultramarine-but-I-still-wanted-to-paint-them-blue-Space-Marines.

Can't really comment on this one. Haven't seen Cassius used with Hammernators in...Well, ever. I didn't think Cassius normally got used in tournaments. Still, learn something every day, I suppose.


Why do I not especially look forwards to the finals with the Orks?

I lost points despite my list being legal since I'd paid for upgrades I hadn't written that I'd taken.

You hadn't written your wargear down? Yeah. That'll lose you points for sure.

"My Captain has a Relic Blade."
"Where?"
"On the model, you can see it."
"Doesn't look like it to me, show me your list." (this is actually an excuse to read your whole list)
"Oh, I didn't write it down."
""

[evisiron]

That's actually a pretty good rule. But, would be irrelevant if you used Comp Scores. If you used Comp Scores, you'd kind of be expected to do that sort of thing.

*Our List*

The Chaos players' (yours?) list makes me

The Musical Wounds Nobz aren't too bad as there's only three of them.
Also, why 2x30 Orks instead of 3x20?

Oooh...'Surfing' Giant Eagles? Do you remember what they looked like? Sounds like a rocking unit and now I must do one for my Hawk Lords...Because.

Nope, the Orks are mine. And his list is forgiveable for how stunning it looks. The guy has layered with more bits, conversions and greenstuff on every model than I reserve for champions.

2x30 because (mainly) my Orks take a serious beating all the time, forever. Having 30 gives them 10 more wounds of being fearless. There is also the intimidation factor - everyone fires everything they have at these guys, giving the plague marines the opening to actually get objectives.
Also, one less Kill point.
Logically 3x20 seems like it should be better, but experience has taught me otherwise.

And yeah, we got a fair bit of "gah, biker Nobs" despite the fact they usually flee when one dies. I do like speedy objective takers though, and they fit the bill nicely since I could pop the warboss with them if so inclined.

As for the hawk riders, think
these but with power armoured marines with spears.
Oh yeah, all the blood claws had 300-esque spears, including "guy leaping off rock".

[evisiron]

Fixed for awful pun.

I approve! Wish I had thought of that.

[evisiron]

Day 2 – Game 6. Final Round.

Pitched battle, Annihilation.

Opponent: Orks and Orks again.

See Game 4 for list and *ahem* player details. Yes, they were as bad the second time around.

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The pairings went up. The Orks were leading on VP’s and were second to us in battle points, and so we were forced to play them again. About six people came up to us before the game to personally cheer us on. There was a mix of “Unlucky for you to play them again, but honestly, better you than me” and “You two have to beat these guys!” We joked that we had been moved from being fellow competitors to being ‘Champions of the People’. If we lost, these guys who embodied the worst aspects of tournaments would come out on top. We literally had the entire hall (of almost complete strangers) rooting for us.

No pressure…

---Gut Grinda took a stiff drink of the motor oil, gargling it thoughtfully as he watched the march of the machines, Yggdrasil looming behind him. They had stomped and smashed everything in their path, and these ones were the only ones to survive. And they had come back for more. “Alright lads! Let’s finish dis…”---

They got first turn and set up. The trukks took centre stage with the Walkers bringing up the flanks. We went with a denied flank approach, hoping to keep half of the kans out of the fight for as long as possible, Orks lining the board edges to foil Snikrot and Friends with obliterators, Nobs and the daemon prince to pester their flank. Their first turn was manoeuvring for a turn 2 charge, not much we could do about that. We opened fire, managing to blow the trukks. However, he got rolled Hits for every Kareen and they ended up closer to the lines hiding behind wreckage. Thanks to this happening in the shooting phase, we couldn’t get in range to charge them. Darn.

Next turn the battle began in earnest. Snikrot didn’t show up and Zagstruk crashed into some trees, so he decided to try again next turn (mishap – delay). Still, their boys charged our lootas on one side and the plague marines on the other, with the mega-nobs attacking a boys mob. The meganobs had bitten off more than they could chew though, and were beaten back until they fled in the following turn. The lootas were cut down, but Gut Grinda swooped in to avenge them. The obliterators blasted a Deff Dread into the same scrap it was built from. Our boys charged in to “rescue” the plague marines, and between us succeeding in killed them and their warboss. Gut Grinda barely survives killing of the last squad, and trundles over their corpses, battered bruised and bleeding.

Zagstruk shows up and jumps the daemon prince, dragging him down through sheer weight of numbers. Snikrot shows up and manages to rout the Orks, only to be bogged down by the plague marine counter assault.

Our last turn is spent killing the remaining trukks and skorcha buggy. Most of their actual Orks have been routed and the Killa Kans never reached combat since they took the time to shoot all the way across the board.

The time has run out as we finish our turn.

It looks like its over, until our opponents demand another 5 minutes. We protest since only they will get another turn and it will become unbalanced since as it stood we have had the same number of turns. They call a ref over, and he almost gives in since they say “we can easily both get a turn in in 5 minutes” (see from earlier?). Eventually, he decides to go the dice roll route. It rolls, and comes up as a 3 – there will be no extra time.

The dust settles.

It stands at about 7 kill points to 4 in our favour.

Result: Victory.

Needless to say, one of our opponents goes off into a sulk and rants about how it ended, how we cheated them. (!) It leaves a sour taste in our mouth, but all that is washed away in the jubilation that followed as our new friends from rounds past rush to congratulate us. With their defeat, the Ork players are knocked down from 2nd place to 5th, allowing some much better players to actually make it to the podium. We are held in friendly conversation as we pack up until the awards ceremony is called. The Best painted award goes to a fantastic Daemon and Word Bearer army, one we both had voted for. The Colonel Schaeffer award “for giving the troops the most chance to die in glorious battle” went to an IG player who gave away over 7000 VPs over the event. We recognise him from when he mentioned how he had accidentally wiped out a squad of his own men with a poorly aimed Leman Russ Battle Cannon shell. The sportsmanship award goes to a fellow who kept playing despite 4 separate partners either not showing up or dropping out over the course of the event.

Finally, the top three places are announced, and we are met with enthusiastic applause as we place First and are awarded our trophies. Neither of us are able to stop smiling for quite some time.

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My trophy (we each got one) along side Squiggly, Gut Grinda's attack squig!

[Shas aia Toriia]

Nice! Congratulations on winning - that sounds like a fun day.

[Deth Muncher]

I'm *pretty* sure this is where I post this...

So, I haven't played a game of 40k since the new rulebook came out - not because I think 4th ed rocks or anything, just haven't had time. Now I do. So now I'm making a list. This list is intended to play against the metagame of the local gamestore - a lot of people run Timmy's, and a lot of people run big tanks like Land Raiders. And even if they're not Marines, they generally all play by the "What's the biggest, baddest thing I can use? Okay, I'll do that" mentality. So.

HQ
-Chaos Sorceror - 145pts
--Personal Icon
--Mark of Slaanesh
--Lash of Submission
--Plasma Pistol

Elite
-Timmy Squad One - 180pts
--1x Reaper Autocannon
--2x Powerfist
--1x Champion
---Champ has Power Sword and TL Bolter

-Timmy Squad Two - 145 pts
-1x Reaper Autocannon
-3x Powerfist

Troop

-Squad One - 255pts
-9x doods
--2x Plasmaguns
--Icon of Tzeentch (or, as I like to call it, a forcefield generator)
--Asp. Champ.
---Asp. Champ rocks a Power Weapon and TL Bolter

-Squad Two
--10x doods
--2x Plasmaguns

Heavy
-Oblit Squad One - 225pts
--3x Oblits

-Oblit Squad Two - 225pts
--3x Oblits

-Vindicator - 145pts
--Extra Armor
--TL Bolter

Total - 1500

Thoughts?

[crazedloon]

your biggest problem (and it may be just a type) is that your sorcerer can not have lash without a slaanesh

Also if you can change the vindicator out for a defiler I believe you will find it will work better.

More troops would not hurt however the rest of the list seems relatively solid

[Deth Muncher]

your biggest problem (and it may be just a type) is that your sorcerer can not have lash without a slaanesh

Also if you can change the vindicator out for a defiler I believe you will find it will work better.

More troops would not hurt however the rest of the list seems relatively solid

I accidentally miswrote the mark. :P Off to fix that. And yeah, I could switch the Vindi to a Defiler, save for that my Defiler has been broken and is in need of fixing. Regardless, I might be better served with the Defiler, or maybe some Havocs.

[crazedloon]

the defiler's blast template can make best use of lashed unites and can double as a CC monster to rip apart those heavy tanks like LRs.

I would add more troops if you were to add havocs as the troops can carry heavies and still hold objectives (and 5th is all about objectives)

[Deth Muncher]

the defiler's blast template can make best use of lashed unites and can double as a CC monster to rip apart those heavy tanks like LRs.

I would add more troops if you were to add havocs as the troops can carry heavies and still hold objectives (and 5th is all about objectives)

Why would I put heavies in my troop squads? I want them to be able to fire and assault, not either or. I think.

[Myatar_Panwar]

Then why do you give them plasma guns

[Deth Muncher]

Then why do you give them plasma guns

They're assault weapons, last I checked...am I mistaken?

[Myatar_Panwar]

Rapid Fire. Melta guns are the assault weapons. You could always give them plasma pistols though.

[Deth Muncher]

Rapid Fire. Melta guns are the assault weapons. You could always give them plasma pistols though.

Bollocks. You're right. But even so, I can still shoot them once and do combat, right? Or am I misremembering everything?

[DranWork]

dont csm's come with bolt pistols as well? if so just elect to shoot the bolt pistols then assault. Use the plasma for long range shootie goodness.

[Deth Muncher]

dont csm's come with bolt pistols as well? if so just elect to shoot the bolt pistols then assault. Use the plasma for long range shootie goodness.

Yes, yes they do. You bring up a valid point. I could pump them with plasma while out of assault range, then pistolize them on assault turn.

[DranWork]

only other thing id advise is to be careful that you dont kill enough models that it takes you out of assault range. I use to do this a lot untill I learnt better

[Lycan 01]

Good job Everison! That was amazing, and its great that you won instead of those jerks!


Speaking of jerks, the fact that I like to play fair and... y'know... keep my friends... cost me a game earlier.

Me and my Dark Angels buddy got together for a friendly game of Warhammer 40K. His army is done, and I've managed to get most of my Boyz done over the last couple of days. We wanted to do 1000 Points, but hit some snags. I only had about 850 points of Orks done (and he was very much against Proxy pieces), but one of his Termies had broken, leaving him with only 4 - an illegal squad - thus costing him one of his best units and over 100 points. So, we settled on 825 points...

I'll write up a Battle Report once my creative juices start flowing, but I'll give a brief overview of the battle just to point out what I learned. However, it is important to note that I did not have my rulebook, so we were unable to check the rules on a few things, and thus we probably fudged up a few things like Holding Objectives and broken units fleeing off the table.

What I learned:
-1 Killa Kan with a Big Shoota, when put behind a brick wall and making amazing rolls, can earn back more than double its points in dead marines.
-3 Deffkoptas with Twin-Linked Rokkits, no matter what anyone else says, are currently one of my most valuable units. 1 dead Dreadnaught and several dead Marines are a testament to this. They would have fared better, but I left them out in the open to soak up fire once I realized I was shooting my opponent into a corner and crushing his spirit, and that just wasn't cool. But even when under combined fire from two whole Tactical Squads, those suckers are resilient!
-It sucks when your 'Ard Boyz are stuck sitting on an objective to keep it in your possession, rather than charging into battle and earning their keep. >.>
-Librarians are not a nice unit to deal with. Especially when they can breathe fire and then assault what's left of your unit. Especially when combined with a Veteran squad geared for Close Combat. Also, that Force Weapon isn't very nice, either. The only answer can be Moar Dakka at Moar Distance.


We disagreed about Objectives. We had 4 of them, one near each starting point and two near the center of the field, and we weren't sure if you had to keep a unit on the Objective to keep it in your possesion, or if you could leave it and still "keep it" without sacrificing an important unit. He thought you had to leave a unit on the objective to keep it, otherwise it was "free" and went to nobody's credit. I agreed to go along with it... even though it meant my 'Ard Slugga Boyz spent most of the battle sitting in a copse of trees with only their Big Shootas getting anything done. Likewise, one of his Tactical Squads had to babysit an objective the whole game, but his missile launcher didn't really need to go anywhere anyway.

The game ended at Round 5 with a Draw - we both had 1 objective to our credit, but next round his Librarian and last few Veterans could have capped either of the free objectives.


So yeah... I need my rulebook back, dangit.

[Erloas]

Yeah, you have to have a scoring unit on the objective when the game ends to get any credit for it. It doesn't matter if they are there the first turn or the 7th, just whenever the game ends.

Although I suppose for a custom scenario you could have flag sort of objectives where you set them and keep them unless someone else shows up to flip them, that however isn't how the normal rules work.

As such, its always nice to have a decent longer ranged scoring unit to keep on the farthest objectives for the whole game. The key thing to remember in those games is that the objective is in fact to hold the objectives and killing the opponent is really only necessary to stop them from holding an objective or keeping you from holding an objective. I've seen a lot of people loose a lot of objective based games by forgetting what the victory conditions are: holding more objectives then your opponent.

[DranWork]

Yeap have to be holding the objective at the end of the game in order to claim it. He was right and you got a draw, where by the sounds of it you should have munched him with your Deffkoptas. I can understand the whole not pissing people off thing but the best way to learn is to get trounced then to find out what went wrong. 825 point game should only take like an hour so you can easy have 3-4 games over the course of the day and work out whats up.

Oh and in such small games he really shouldnt be taking termies.... point sink much.

[Lycan 01]

Meh, it was a casual game, and we took awhile plotting tactical decisions and having silly conversations, like naming his Sergeants and pondering why my Ard Boyz were justting sitting around in the forest. Plus, we stopped for dinner, which will be mentioned in the write-up.


By Round 3 he was pretty dejected, since I'd already taken out a third of his army without a single casualty. So I decided that I'd go easier on him, even if it cost me the game. The name of the game is fun, after all, and I don't want gaming with me to be a depressing experience for my friends.

[lord_khaine]

Congratulations Envisiron, it was a interesting tale, where good triumps over evil in the end.

[Closet_Skeleton]

You hadn't written your wargear down? Yeah. That'll lose you points for sure.

"My Captain has a Relic Blade."
"Where?"
"On the model, you can see it."
"Doesn't look like it to me, show me your list." (this is actually an excuse to read your whole list)
"Oh, I didn't write it down."
""

I was a mixed fantasy/40k tournament and I just forgot to write down that my horses had barding even though I put the effects into the statline and added in the points. So I lost 10 tournament points (the equivilant of a draw), didn't get to use the advantage of barding and came below 13th out of 15. My tyranid army for the 40k half had no errors but was well, my tyranid army.

[Trixie]

HQ
-Chaos Sorceror - 145pts
--Personal Icon
--Mark of Slaanesh
--Lash of Submission
--Plasma Pistol

Why personal icon? Are you deepstriking? Also, pistol is useless, really. Sorcerers have much better usage for their shooting actions than to fire a plasma, plus, you don't need additional source of wounds when you have Perils already.

Elite
-Timmy Squad One - 180pts
--1x Reaper Autocannon
--2x Powerfist
--1x Champion
---Champ has Power Sword and TL Bolter

How many men? You should write this, not default arms on Champion. Also, IMHO, Champion is pointless, 2xPowerfists can be exchanged for 1xChainfist, and I'm pretty sure you can take Reapers only in squad of 5x Terminator, and this one is way too cheap for it.

-Timmy Squad Two - 145 pts
-1x Reaper Autocannon
-3x Powerfist

As above, Chaos Termies are wonderful heavy infantry, you don't want to give them so much fists. They could use some differing equipment for wound-handling.

-Squad One - 255pts
-9x doods
--2x Plasmaguns
--Icon of Tzeentch (or, as I like to call it, a forcefield generator)
--Asp. Champ.
---Asp. Champ rocks a Power Weapon and TL Bolter

Again, how many men? Also - Plasma is good, but if you want to assault, Melta is better. What do you need TL Bolter for? I hope you haven't replaced your pistol with it?

Also, MoT is... Why not use the same Mark your Lord has?

-Squad Two
--10x doods
--2x Plasmaguns

No Marks, I take it?

-Vindicator - 145pts
--Extra Armor
--TL Bolter

Well... not that Bolter is totally useless here, but... I'd find better use for points, though.

[Winterwind]

Although I suppose for a custom scenario you could have flag sort of objectives where you set them and keep them unless someone else shows up to flip them, that however isn't how the normal rules work.

There is a scenario like that in Battle Missions. A Necron mission, if I'm not mistaken. Pretty interesting divergence from the usual games.