[3.5] Beating Regeneration

[AngelOmnipotent]

Assuming the DM (Me ) would to make a creature that Regenerates unless hit by Fire/Acid, then said creature is naturally immune to both Acid and Fire, how exactly would you beat it?

As gory as it sounds, if you tore the body apart while it was unconscious and stored them separate from each other, would the creature be able to regenerate new limbs without having access to the original ones, or would it basically be in a torpor until all the bits were put back together again?

Needless to say I want a monster in my game that is a hideous experiment gone wrong and is now going all Godzilla-like on the city, and somehow the players have got to deal with it rather than just hitting it until it's HP are gone.

[PersonMan]

Just beat it until it falls unconscious, and have some people spend shifts hitting it with coup de grace attacks to keep it like that, eventually you can have someone spam SODs on it until it fails a save.

[Gerrtt]

Trolls can regrow lost limbs in 3d6 minutes, as per the SRD. But you're the DM.

If the plot says that keeping the limbs and parts separated will do the trick then go for it.

It makes for a great plot too. A sleeper cult that secretly worships this thing might make efforts to put the pieces back together to undo reality and enter the world into a new era of life (or rather, unlife)! Dun dun dun!

[NEO|Phyte]

Assuming the DM (Me ) would to make a creature that Regenerates unless hit by Fire/Acid, then said creature is naturally immune to both Acid and Fire, how exactly would you beat it?

You hire a psionic character to kill it for you.

[Furnok]

One idea could be to Plane Shift said creature to the negative energy plane. Something else off the top of my head is Hellfire, since even fire sub-type creatures take damage from Hellfire. The last idea I got is disintegrate its pretty hard to avoid disintegration.

[AngelOmnipotent]

Trolls can regrow lost limbs in 3d6 minutes, as per the SRD. But you're the DM.

If the plot says that keeping the limbs and parts separated will do the trick then go for it.

It makes for a great plot too. A sleeper cult that secretly worships this thing might make efforts to put the pieces back together to undo reality and enter the world into a new era of life (or rather, unlife)! Dun dun dun!

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with a sleeper cult, just that what they're worshipping happens to be a smaller-scale Cthulhu, and instead of the being actually existing they're attempting to actually create one.

As for repeating SoD's and higher level spells, they're in Eberron, so there are only a handful of people of high enough level to be able to do such spells, and even then the majority of them wouldn't be interested in helping. The PCs are currently level 9 and bordering on some of the most powerful people with class levels that are of the 'good' persuasion.

[pingcode20]

There's also a Metamagic feat in It's Hot Outside (Sandstorm) called Searing Spell. That gives you superfire that hits for at least half damage even on things that are supposed to be immune.

You can burn anything that way, including Fire Elementals!

[Aracor]

That's easy. Gate it or plane shift it somewhere else, that makes it someone else's problem. Drown it. Imprison spell. Knock it out and then teleport it somewhere else. Give it enough negative levels to kill it regardless of hit points.

There are a myriad of ways to deal with something that can't take 'mere' damage.

[PersonMan]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with a sleeper cult, just that what they're worshipping happens to be a smaller-scale Cthulhu, and instead of the being actually existing they're attempting to actually create one.

As for repeating SoD's and higher level spells, they're in Eberron, so there are only a handful of people of high enough level to be able to do such spells, and even then the majority of them wouldn't be interested in helping. The PCs are currently level 9 and bordering on some of the most powerful people with class levels that are of the 'good' persuasion.

A giant monster is running around blowing stuff up. Killing it will probably result in a great reputation, big payments and the like. Why wouldn't a power Evil figure not want that? Say 'Oh, I'd love to help, but the material components for this spell cost 5,000 GP.' and come out 5,000 GP richer.

Anyways, Phantasmal Killer is a fairly low-level SOD. Even low-DC spells are fine, just tie it down/beat it forever until it fails a save.

[Gerrtt]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head with a sleeper cult, just that what they're worshipping happens to be a smaller-scale Cthulhu, and instead of the being actually existing they're attempting to actually create one.

As for repeating SoD's and higher level spells, they're in Eberron, so there are only a handful of people of high enough level to be able to do such spells, and even then the majority of them wouldn't be interested in helping. The PCs are currently level 9 and bordering on some of the most powerful people with class levels that are of the 'good' persuasion.

Neat!

I was in a game once where something similar happened. There was some kind of deity who's avatar form was dismembered and as a result the deity couldn't manifest in avatar form anymore. Which was convenient for the world since it went on a murderous rampage when in avatar form. The PCs were trying to get the pieces first to keep the opposing team from putting this monstrosity back together and having it tear the world to pieces. It's similar in that all the gory stuff happened off camera in the past, we were just going after the body parts (there were only 5, which made it smaller scale than I think you're going for).

[ZeroNumerous]

how exactly would you beat it?

Depends entirely on the levels involved. At level 3 or higher, Ray of Stupidity can easily render such a creature entirely harmless. At level 5 or higher one could render it immobile via a sufficiently deep pit with sufficient amount of water to cause drowning and a Major Image to convince it to attack that area. 9th level or higher could Magic Jar it, giving a PC the immortal body you've created, Plane Shift it to anywhere else, etc. Beyond 9th level I don't feel I need to point out the ways to kill it.

would the creature be able to regenerate new limbs without having access to the original ones

As per Regeneration: Yes. It would regenerate new limbs at the rate specified in it's Regeneration entry(or a rate made by you assuming it's homebrew).

[Cyclocone]

Greymantle or (whatever it's called) from SpC shuts down regeneration.

...But if you want to get creative, you could wis drain it with an allip, or PaO it into an amusing mantlepiece, or planeshift it into Juiblex, or.. well, you get the picture.

[JeminiZero]

Assuming the DM (Me ) would to make a creature that Regenerates unless hit by Fire/Acid, then said creature is naturally immune to both Acid and Fire, how exactly would you beat it?

Assuming this is D&D 3.5, the link in my signature might interest you.

That said, if you are just using a troll with fire/acid immunity (from I dunno, half dragon templates) then it is still vulneable to the following
1) Suffocation (e.g. drowning, if you can trap it underwater long enough)
2) Ability Damage/Drain: Con damage/drain kills it outright, the rest either paralyze or comatize it, and then you can dunk its head in a bucket of water to drown it. Sources include: Poisons, Diseases, Vicious Weapon enchantment, summoned undead, Ray of Stupidity and Shivering Touch.
3) Energy Drain: They die when they gain negative levels in excess of Hit Dice. Sources include: Summmoned undead, certain weapon enchantments, Evervation and Energy Drain spells.
3) Hotter than Fire damage: Divine Fire, Hell Fire and Searing Fire all deal fire damage that bypasses fire immunity.
4) Trollbane: Next hit with Slashing/Piercing Weapons coated with this poison ignore regen. They probably need many vials of the stuff to ultimately wear a monster down, but damage won't be regenerated.
5) Save or Dies: Finger of Death, Slaying weapons and the like.
6) Dominate: Doesn't kill it, but you now have a really tough troll to throw at your enemies.

[Optimystik]

Send it to the Positive Energy Plane - it will actually die twice as quickly as its healing works against it.

Searing Spell (and Irresistible Energy for the psionics fans) will also do the trick.

[Snake-Aes]

Well, having a creature immune to fire whose regeneration can only stop with fire strikes to me as rather odd. An alternative can be that it doesn't take damage from the fire, but it still stops the regenerative process.

An unconscious regenerative can be killed with a coup de grace.

You can also starve/drown the creature, since it doesn't regenerate hp loss from starvation, suffocation and thirst.

[hamishspence]

An unconscious regenerative can be killed with a coup de grace.

Isn't there a rule that the coup de grace must be with something that overcomes the regeneration?

[Gerrtt]

Out of curiousity AngelOmnipotent, just how big of a critter are we talking about? Can we squeeze a few more details out of ya?

How does it get fire/acid immunity?
What CR do you expect this thing to have?
Will it have access to items?
Will it have access to magic of any kind?
What levels do you expect the PCs to encounter it?
Do you expect the PCs to encounter it?
If they encounter it, do you expect the PCs to stop it?

Because without the details people are just going to keep telling you to use magic to kill it without doing actual damage to it. Heck, even with the details people are probably going to tell you use magic to kill it without damage, but at least we'll know what we're dealing with.

[NEO|Phyte]

Isn't there a rule that the coup de grace must be with something that overcomes the regeneration?

Yep.

"An attack that can cause instant death only threatens the creature with death if it is delivered by weapons that deal it lethal damage. "

[AngelOmnipotent]

Out of curiousity AngelOmnipotent, just how big of a critter are we talking about? Can we squeeze a few more details out of ya?

How does it get fire/acid immunity?
What CR do you expect this thing to have?
Will it have access to items?
Will it have access to magic of any kind?
What levels do you expect the PCs to encounter it?
Do you expect the PCs to encounter it?
If they encounter it, do you expect the PCs to stop it?

Because without the details people are just going to keep telling you to use magic to kill it without doing actual damage to it. Heck, even with the details people are probably going to tell you use magic to kill it without damage, but at least we'll know what we're dealing with.

It'll get immunities through templates and very cheesy methods to make it all natural that can't be suppressed. I'm not always a b*tch about it, but I want to make sure my players know this is a fight to remember, and will probably need the entire city to deal with it.

CR will be close to 18-20 or so. They won't be able to take it down on their own. At the same time the monster won't particularly be interested in individuals even if they're trying to kill it. This thing is going to try and destroy a specific target (details not worked out fully yet, but it doesn't really matter what; a target is a target) and won't stop until it does.

The monster could have access to items depending on what I decide to have the cultists give to it when they try to create it. Eberron is full of mysteries and ancient artifacts, there's no reason why this monster can't be given a discovery without the people who gave it to him knowing what it really does.

As for magic itself, it will have an assortment of buff-based SLAs, and one huge "death ray" damaging SLA. Details are yet to be determined, but it's likely to be fire-based. It can have class levels also; I haven't come up with a solid creature yet, it's more of an idea-in-progress.

The PCs will be level 9 when they encounter it, and the creature is trying to Destroy Sharn, so they will have a lot of help along the way. This thing, size wise, will be Colossal. They will encounter it when travelling back to Sharn from Xen'drik, finding it's almost in ruins. I'm not expecting my PCs to stop it by themselves, but help coming up with a strategy to deal with it. They're already renowned with all the Dragonmarked houses, and they are agents of the Silver Flame who will back them through anything, and the Royalty also knows them on first-name-basis.

Any other questions?

[Telonius]

I'm thinking Polymorph Any Object, Baleful Polymorph, Flesh to Stone, Wail of the Banshee, Phantasmal Killer...

Actually, Phantasmal Killer will probably be their best bet. As a 4th-level Wizard spell, it's one they can currently cast. (That said, the spell does get two saves and Spell Resistance, so it's by no means a sure thing).

[JeminiZero]

It'll get immunities through templates and very cheesy methods to make it all natural that can't be suppressed. I'm not always a b*tch about it, but I want to make sure my players know this is a fight to remember, and will probably need the entire city to deal with it.

Mechanically, this will be a little hard to pull off. When you have an entire city attacking a single target at once, it either goes down quickly if it is vulnerable to any of the many many things being throw at it, or it shrugs it off entirely. Having a accompanied by a bunch of minions might be a realistic way of having a creature that is still vulnerable, but which can go toe to toe with a city. Of course you could just rule zero it.

CR will be close to 18-20 or so. They won't be able to take it down on their own. At the same time the monster won't particularly be interested in individuals even if they're trying to kill it. This thing is going to try and destroy a specific target (details not worked out fully yet, but it doesn't really matter what; a target is a target) and won't stop until it does.

There is one other spell you should watch out for. Simulacrum. Suddenly your monster is fighting an equally unkillable copy of itself.

[Gerrtt]

The party is nowhere near able to cast that though, since they are level 9 or 10.

[ZeroNumerous]

The monster could have access to items depending on what I decide to have the cultists give to it when they try to create it.

Give it an item of Dimensional Anchor, so it can't be Plane Shifted away.

Destroy Sharn

Everything is trying to destroy Sharn these days.

[Flickerdart]

The party is nowhere near able to cast that though, since they are level 9 or 10.

Summon Mirror Mephit is a 2nd level spell.

[unre9istered]

Option 1: After you beat it down, coup de gras with a disintigrate (from a scroll since they aren't high enough level yet.

Option 2: After you beat it down, hit it with Phantasmal Killers until it fails the fort save. Doesn't it automatically fail the will save by being unconscious (and there for 'willing')? Or is that only for "harmless" spells.

[Mr.Moron]

If it's totally immune to everything I can throw at it, is clearly out of my league. I'd Fly away and find somebody else more capable of handling it. No sense flailing about uselessly in its mighty shadow.

[Person_Man]

A Binder would actually love such a creature. Beat it to a pulp, and then store it in an adamantine jar (enhancing it if necessary to get it's hardness above the point where the creature's natural weapons can't harm it) just big enough to fit the creature, but not big enough so that it can move around.

Then use Shield Self on it until it fails a Will Save. Now for as long as you carry the jar around with you, 50% of your damage goes directly to the regenerating jar of goo, and the effect is permanent until one of you dies, moves too far away from each other, or you switch it to another target.

[NEO|Phyte]

Then use Shield Self on it until it fails a Will Save. Now for as long as you carry the jar around with you, 50% of your damage goes directly to the regenerating jar of goo, and the effect is permanent until one of you dies, moves too far away from each other, or you switch it to another target.

Or your pact expires in 24 hours.

[Doc Roc]

Searing Spell!
What fire resistance?

[AngelOmnipotent]

If it's totally immune to everything I can throw at it, is clearly out of my league. I'd Fly away and find somebody else more capable of handling it. No sense flailing about uselessly in its mighty shadow.

The problem is that the players are one of the few people around who are remotely capable of dealing with it, so they can't just fly away and hope for the best