Page 3 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 61 to 90 of 285
  1. - Top - End - #61
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    I am having great difficulty believing that. Thus far, I have one flavorful trick of questionable legality and functionality that makes a one trick pony, and a build that, while it uses MoM, is certainly easier to make without it.
    Last edited by Arbitrarity; 2010-06-22 at 10:50 AM.

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    I'm having similar problems, compounded by the fact that the really flavourful LA - race I want to use doesn't have any mechanical synergy with the class.

    Not that MoM has synergy with anything much, other than the Assassin's mask.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by hotel_papa View Post
    I maintain that until I see a movie trailer where Patrick Stewart introduces himself as Mordenkainen, there never was and never will be a D&D movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by dixieboy View Post
    I am unable to respond due to the awesomness of seducing a god, sorry
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

    Avatar by asdflove

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    I'm trying to get it to work, but most of the time I feel I could just replace the damn class with something else, and get the same result. Sure, it's not as bad as commoner, but it's not a LOT more.

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Orc in the Playground
     
    bigstipidfighte's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2010

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    I'll go ahead and try this. MoM will be interesting, I have a question though- how would you judges feel about allowing MoM +1 spellcasting levels to apply to things other than casting, like initiating, psionics, the Tome of Magic classes, etc.? Crappy progression in those is much more interesting than crappy progression in casting IMO and if I wanted to use the class I'd certainly try to convince the DM this should be allowed.

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    I'm having similar problems, compounded by the fact that the really flavourful LA - race I want to use doesn't have any mechanical synergy with the class.

    Not that MoM has synergy with anything much, other than the Assassin's mask.
    Faceless and Gladiator are pretty good. Nondetection and EWP(Yes) are nice abilities to have.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  6. - Top - End - #66
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Broken Damaged Worthless

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by bigstipidfighte View Post
    I'll go ahead and try this. MoM will be interesting, I have a question though- how would you judges feel about allowing MoM +1 spellcasting levels to apply to things other than casting, like initiating, psionics, the Tome of Magic classes, etc.? Crappy progression in those is much more interesting than crappy progression in casting IMO and if I wanted to use the class I'd certainly try to convince the DM this should be allowed.
    Non-permissible, as it's illegal by RAW. This is not a chance to bend the rules, but work within them.

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    the humanity's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    that skill list... that's why nobody plays the class. why give a bonus to stuff that's not a class skill?


    oh well.

    I have other ideas.
    thanks to Vrythas for the Venser avatar!

    Die Again, a Zombie Survival RPG


  8. - Top - End - #68
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Just got the first submission in, and if it's anything to go by, the judges are going to have a good time with this one.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  9. - Top - End - #69
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Akal Saris's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by bigstipidfighte View Post
    I'll go ahead and try this. MoM will be interesting, I have a question though- how would you judges feel about allowing MoM +1 spellcasting levels to apply to things other than casting, like initiating, psionics, the Tome of Magic classes, etc.? Crappy progression in those is much more interesting than crappy progression in casting IMO and if I wanted to use the class I'd certainly try to convince the DM this should be allowed.
    I agree with you in spirit, but unless the class specifically allows you to do so (Shadowcaster), please avoid non-casting entries that require a house-rule to work.
    Handbooks: (Hosted on BG)
    [3.5] The Poison Handbook
    [3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
    [3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook

    Trophies!
    Spoiler
    Show

    Thanks to Strategos and Jumilk for the awesome Iron Chef trophies!

  10. - Top - End - #70
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    I personally must disagree with the notion that a class has to be weak to be a flavorful Secret Ingredient, as it smells faintly of Stormwind. Sometimes you have to work with cow tongue, but sometimes you get beef.
    You misunderstand me if your sensing stormwind. I believe that Chameleon is so awesome and unique mechanically that it naturally lends itself to creating characters that feel like chameleons. No matter what you do with the other ten levels of the build a chameleon 10 will be an awesome jack of all trades; a fighter 10/chameleon 10 is a chameleon with a high BAB and extra feats, a rouge 10/ chameleon 10 is a chameleon with extra skills and Sneak attack, a bard 10/chameleon 10 is a chameleon with bardic music, and commoner 10/ chameleon 10 is probably functional in a mid-optimization group (and would be interesting for a jack o' the wiles type character).

    Chameleon is full of flavor and unique powerful mechanical abilities. Contestents could certainly create interesting characters but there would be 0 mechanical challenge to it.

    As for my feelings on the judging criteria.

    Originality: Basically I'll take away points for being similar to an iconic build with the secret ingredient forced in and after that I rate on a scale of "how long did/would it take me to think of this". If something comes out of left field and shocks me I certainly won't take credit away because someone else did the same thing by coincidence though like most I will cite similar builds when pointing out that a build ranks low on originality.

    Power: I'll rate in a pretty standard fashion though I will frown on a build that is weaker in it's role than a straight core base class at low levels. Also I will be a bit harder on builds that start out in high tier base classes and are brought down by the secret ingredient. (though I'll be much more leniant on that front in this competition, since you either need to have some casting which usually means higher tiers or let the caster level increases go to waste).

    Elegence: Mostly I rate this based on how tempted I'd be to smack somebody who leveled this way at the gaming table. This goes both for using cheese/questionable rulings and for shooting themselves in the foot by taking levels in classes that don't help them.

    On the otherhand I don't find moderate dipping inelegent and I have no problem with people going back and forth between classes like for example taking a ToB dip every 3 levels to get a higher level manuever with each level.

    Use of Secret Ingrediant: Aside from the obvious "how many levels did you take" I also judge based on how vital the levels are both to your character background and to your tactics.

    Big note here: Don't lie to me about what the secret ingredient does for you.

    Don't try to convince me that the assassin's mask makes you a TWF Sneak Attacker if that 4d6 is all you have. Or explain how useful a once per day spell-like of a fourth level spell is when you can cast 6th level wizard spells. Not only will you get a 1 in secret ingredient from me but I will point this out in my judging post for anyone who wants to to see.

  11. - Top - End - #71
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand_of_Vecna View Post
    Chameleon is full of flavor and unique powerful mechanical abilities. Contestents could certainly create interesting characters but there would be 0 mechanical challenge to it.
    There are two interpretations that I get from this, one I agree with and one I do not. I think you are saying either A) It's easy to make a Chameleon, which seems similar to Stormwind in that you would be implying that flavor and power are dependent on one another, or B) That Chameleon's have a universal flavor that it's practically impossible to deviate from, no matter what entry you use, so, while flavorful, all applicants would be more or less the same, which is a good point.

    I really hope you meant B.
    Last edited by Private-Prinny; 2010-06-22 at 06:19 PM.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  12. - Top - End - #72
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Also, the Chameleon hardly qualifies as lesser known/used. Part of the point of these is to showcase the classes that people don't use.

    Usually we discover there's a very good reason why, but that's neither here nor there.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by hotel_papa View Post
    I maintain that until I see a movie trailer where Patrick Stewart introduces himself as Mordenkainen, there never was and never will be a D&D movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by dixieboy View Post
    I am unable to respond due to the awesomness of seducing a god, sorry
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

    Avatar by asdflove

  13. - Top - End - #73
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Also, the Chameleon hardly qualifies as lesser known/used. Part of the point of these is to showcase the classes that people don't use.

    Usually we discover there's a very good reason why, but that's neither here nor there.
    True, but Cancer Mage does have quite the reputation...

    Either way, I still feel that MoM was a good pick.
    Last edited by Private-Prinny; 2010-06-22 at 06:29 PM.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  14. - Top - End - #74
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Okay, I think I'll drop out of this. I just can't find anything useful for the MoM to do that isn't copying Haberdash. There really is absolutely no point in ever taking more that one level in the class - there aren't enough useful masks and they don't scale well enough,
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by hotel_papa View Post
    I maintain that until I see a movie trailer where Patrick Stewart introduces himself as Mordenkainen, there never was and never will be a D&D movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by dixieboy View Post
    I am unable to respond due to the awesomness of seducing a god, sorry
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

    Avatar by asdflove

  15. - Top - End - #75
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Akal Saris's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Bah, cancer mage is mostly known for a 1-level disease immunity dip, same as Master of masks and the glad mask. I think we ended up with some really cool builds in that challenge :)
    Handbooks: (Hosted on BG)
    [3.5] The Poison Handbook
    [3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
    [3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook

    Trophies!
    Spoiler
    Show

    Thanks to Strategos and Jumilk for the awesome Iron Chef trophies!

  16. - Top - End - #76
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post
    Bah, cancer mage is mostly known for a 1-level disease immunity dip, same as Master of masks and the glad mask. I think we ended up with some really cool builds in that challenge :)
    And I have faith that we'll see some very interesting builds here as well.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  17. - Top - End - #77
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    Okay, I think I'll drop out of this. I just can't find anything useful for the MoM to do that isn't copying Haberdash. There really is absolutely no point in ever taking more that one level in the class - there aren't enough useful masks and they don't scale well enough,
    This would be a shame: first challenge in a long time and you're not partecipating. If you want, I'll give you an obscure hint of how mechanically do it efficient. Then, the way shown, we'll fight on the same ground.
    Do you mind?

  18. - Top - End - #78
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingus View Post
    This would be a shame: first challenge in a long time and you're not partecipating. If you want, I'll give you an obscure hint of how mechanically do it efficient. Then, the way shown, we'll fight on the same ground.
    Do you mind?
    (Disclaimer: not a judge, just spouting opinion)
    I'd rather not see 'hints' posted here. It goes against my understanding of discussing builds before the reveal, and could potentially impact the Originality and/or Elegance scores. A hint dropped can make a judge think of a new build s/he hadn't considered before, which, when it shows up in the competition, seems less original and appears to have been created as a result of the hint, rather than the contestant's ingenuity. Things like that.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV.

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  19. - Top - End - #79
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    (Disclaimer: not a judge, just spouting opinion)
    I'd rather not see 'hints' posted here. It goes against my understanding of discussing builds before the reveal, and could potentially impact the Originality and/or Elegance scores. A hint dropped can make a judge think of a new build s/he hadn't considered before, which, when it shows up in the competition, seems less original and appears to have been created as a result of the hint, rather than the contestant's ingenuity. Things like that.
    Amphetryon has it right. No speculation about possible builds, and a hint is just that.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  20. - Top - End - #80
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    So, I just read over haberdash and I have a question for the other judges.

    What would constitute copying haberdash? Maybe missed a particular spoiler but it looked liked haberdash was an incomplete build with dozens of options for filling it out. I'm not saying it's not awsome or anything it just seems much broader in scope than most iconic builds.

    Is quickdrawing 3 different exotic weapons copying haberdash?

    Using Factotum as a base class?

    Iajutsu+Quickrazor's?

    Taking lots of skill tricks?

    I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly asking because the first entry
    worthy idea I came up with did all of the above except for use factotum and I'd never read haberdash before.

  21. - Top - End - #81
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Hand_of_Vecna View Post
    So, I just read over haberdash and I have a question for the other judges.

    What would constitute copying haberdash? Maybe missed a particular spoiler but it looked liked haberdash was an incomplete build with dozens of options for filling it out. I'm not saying it's not awsome or anything it just seems much broader in scope than most iconic builds.

    Is quickdrawing 3 different exotic weapons copying haberdash?

    Using Factotum as a base class?

    Iajutsu+Quickrazor's?

    Taking lots of skill tricks?

    I'm not being sarcastic, I'm honestly asking because the first entry
    worthy idea I came up with did all of the above except for use factotum and I'd never read haberdash before.
    In general, what you're asking about is originality. If your build is primarily reliant on one of those elements, I probably won't dock you unless it appears that you copped the idea from there. If you're looking at 2-3, your originality will probably be docked: I don't necessarily think you're copying the build, but you've presented something less than innovative.
    Last edited by Ozymandias9; 2010-06-23 at 12:29 PM.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. [...]Where did you start yours?
    A street riot in a major city that was getting violent.
    Spoiler
    Show

  22. - Top - End - #82
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Broken Damaged Worthless

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ozymandias9 View Post
    In general, what you're asking about is originality. If your build is primarily reliant on one of those elements, I probably won't dock you unless it appears that you copped the idea from there. If you're looking at 2-3, your originality will probably be docked: I don't necessarily think you're copying the build, but you've presented something less than innovative.
    Indeed. Haberdash to me is the iconic "I am everything" character. If you build a Factotum-based Master of Masks "I am everything"-style character, you have copied Haberdash, IMO.

  23. - Top - End - #83
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Indeed. Haberdash to me is the iconic "I am everything" character. If you build a Factotum-based Master of Masks "I am everything"-style character, you have copied Haberdash, IMO.
    I hope you would not be literally so strict, 'cause "I am everything" is also the style of... say... Master of Masks

  24. - Top - End - #84
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Just got the second submission. Even without Akal participating, the build quality is amazing this time around. Keep 'em coming, because I love seein' 'em.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  25. - Top - End - #85
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Broken Damaged Worthless

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingus View Post
    I hope you would not be literally so strict, 'cause "I am everything" is also the style of... say... Master of Masks
    You note I specified a heavy Factotum entry. If you seriously do Factotum 5/MoM 10/Factotum +5 you are not original, you are Haberdash minus some effectiveness and plus some more MoM.

  26. - Top - End - #86
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ajadea's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Not Here

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    I have a question. How should I determine my build's stats? Point Buy, or some other way?
    Games DMing: The Wrong Guys
    Playing as: Calia Simore in Death's End|Caerwyn Elthried in Serpent's Skull|Liss O'Malley in the Hunger Games

    Avatar by me. ~~~~deviantArt

    RL has become inordinately busy. If I'm not posting, poke me.

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    I used 32 pb, not sure about what we're "supposed" to use. Still chugging along to stat out at high point, 15, and 20, and finish up backstory.

  28. - Top - End - #88
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajadea View Post
    I have a question. How should I determine my build's stats? Point Buy, or some other way?
    My 2 bits: 32 point buy is the standard. There have been a couple builds submitted in past contests with 28 point buy, but anything else will likely need to be justified in the presentation (and may quite possibly mean a deduction in either power or elegance).
    Last edited by Ozymandias9; 2010-06-23 at 02:18 PM.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. [...]Where did you start yours?
    A street riot in a major city that was getting violent.
    Spoiler
    Show

  29. - Top - End - #89
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    Amphetryon has it right. No speculation about possible builds, and a hint is just that.
    Although I do miss the Iron Chef style bantering from the BG threads.

    What's that he's putting in there, Jim? Looks like it might be Complete Champion. Interesting choice for this contest, do you think it'll go?

    Daring indeed, Bob. Complete Champion's not to everyone's taste. I hope the judges like it!
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by hotel_papa View Post
    I maintain that until I see a movie trailer where Patrick Stewart introduces himself as Mordenkainen, there never was and never will be a D&D movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by dixieboy View Post
    I am unable to respond due to the awesomness of seducing a god, sorry
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

    Avatar by asdflove

  30. - Top - End - #90
    Orc in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jun 2008

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    @Prinny: as a pathologic curios, I envy you so much

    @Heliomance and others: my hint was pretty simple, pretty generic and it would very unlikely end up on a similar build. To be surer, I step back to a generic, old man hint: read very carefully the text of the secret ingredient, and you'll find a treasure of infinite wisdom, buried in the very heart of Washington D.C.
    ...no, wait, maybe this is Dan Brown

    @Argukos: just kidding around

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •