Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 151 to 180 of 285
  1. - Top - End - #151
    Titan in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    I wish I knew...
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    I will probably get a chance to go over the builds in detail and deliver my scores some time this evening, or by Wednesday at the very latest.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Underlord View Post
    All hail great Shneekeythulhu! Ia Ia Shneeky fthagn
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quite possibly, the best rebuttal I have ever witnessed.
    Joker Bard - the DM's solution to the Batman Wizard.
    Takahashi no Onisan - The scariest Samurai alive
    Incarnum and YOU: a reference guide
    Soulmelds, by class and slot: Another Incarnum reference
    Multiclassing for Newbies: A reference guide for the rest of us

    My homebrew world in progress: Falcora

  2. - Top - End - #152
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Akal Saris's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    I believe Shen's build is legal actually. He took Silverbrow human and the substitution level for sorcerer that trades its familiar for Draconic Heritage. Draconic Heritage: Battle Dragon gives sorcerers perform as a class skill if I recall, so he can reach the max ranks.
    Handbooks: (Hosted on BG)
    [3.5] The Poison Handbook
    [3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
    [3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook

    Trophies!
    Spoiler
    Show

    Thanks to Strategos and Jumilk for the awesome Iron Chef trophies!

  3. - Top - End - #153
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post
    I believe Shen's build is legal actually. He took Silverbrow human and the substitution level for sorcerer that trades its familiar for Draconic Heritage. Draconic Heritage: Battle Dragon gives sorcerers perform as a class skill if I recall, so he can reach the max ranks.
    This is correct, so unless he breaks the rules somewhere else, Shen is fine.

  4. - Top - End - #154
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    This serves as a good reminder to all of us who are or would be contestants to cite materials; I'd hate to see a legal build get points docked because the creator didn't specify how s/he was making something work that isn't legal to a less-than thorough examination. It's a good thing Akal's got such strong op-fu!
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  5. - Top - End - #155
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Draz74's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    San Diego
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post
    I believe Shen's build is legal actually. He took Silverbrow human and the substitution level for sorcerer that trades its familiar for Draconic Heritage. Draconic Heritage: Battle Dragon gives sorcerers perform as a class skill if I recall, so he can reach the max ranks.
    Ah, cool. It's nice to see how many ways people came up with to get Perform, other than Bard/Rogue/Factotum/Monk. Draconic Heritage (battle dragon) feat, Apprentice (entertainer) feat, Half-Elf Paragon class, Jester class. Shame the Jester one didn't pan out.
    You can call me Draz.
    Trophies:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Also of note:

    Work on my homebrew system, CRE8, is still marching slowly onwards. I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel -- an Alpha release -- in the distance now. Read my Design Goals here.

  6. - Top - End - #156
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Human Paragon class work as well, Draz. I actually really like that entry too, since Adaptive Learner can really help out.

  7. - Top - End - #157
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Akal Saris's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2007

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Hereís my feedback on each of the submissions. I was very impressed by the quality of the submissions, and by the range of builds presented. And now, onto the builds themselves!

    Jereth
    Spoiler
    Show
    Main thoughts: I loved the never-ending series of back stories! I can just imagine a DMís face when you hand him a small journal for your backstory and note that the journal is still ignoring a few masksí stories. Crunch-wise it seems fine as well, youíve come up with a quintessential melee rogue-type character. Jereth ends up with very strong social skills and stealth skills, with skill tricks and feats to support those abilities and make them relevant to combat, which I appreciated. Outside of the feats, you donít go out of core+completes either. Overall this seems to be a well-balanced character that is strong from 1-20. Good work!

    Originality: 3.5. This is very much what I pictured when I saw the Master of Masks prestige class. But using human and half-elf paragon together with MoM to advance assassin spell-casting was interesting, and I liked your backstory as well.

    Power : 4.5. Iíd say this is about as high-powered as a non-caster focused on social skills can hit. With a BAB of +12, a +5 weapon, and his final stats, I believe heíll average about ~70 damage per hit on half power attack with sneak attack (even with wraithstrike, a +12 BAB and a 20 dex wonít hit much on full PA), with a decent array of mobility and AOE assisting SLAs and some reasonably useful assassin spells like glibness and modify memory, as well as imperious command spam and some good hiding skills. That said, I think going half-elf was of questionable value Ė you waste a feat on human heritage and could probably have done just as well as a Human paragon 1/swashbuckler 4 (picking up seduction)/Assassin 3/MoM 10/human paragon +2.

    Elegance: 4.5. Overall well done in my mind, you stick with a small number of base classes and only 2 PrCs, all of which support each other. No big complaints here.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.5. Jereth doesnít have any crazy combos, but he makes use of everything that MoM gives him.

    Overall: 4.25


    Shen the Masked Dragon
    Spoiler
    Show

    Main thoughts: Looks like a solid, mid-powered gish build to me.

    Originality: 3.5. No huge surprises here Ė you make good use of the gladiator mask along with abjurant champion. The other masks also fill some holes in your spellcasting and help a bit with buffing.

    Power : 4. You end up as a gish with a BAB +14 and CL 11 (20). Thatís solid, but not overwhelming. Feats-wise, everything is useful, though Iíd recommend picking up imperious command as an option. Excellent choices on spells Ė Iíll add that draconic polymorph and greater mirror image are 2 more terrific gish spells. The build has a weak middle range (at 15th level it has +9 BAB and CL 6 (10)? Yuck!), but is quite solid for the early game and makes a strong recovery once you get into abjurant champion.

    Elegance: 3.5 I thought it was very clever how you managed to enter MoM with a fighter/sorcerer build. Able Learner solves the problem with MoMís horrible skills list, while silverbrow human gets disguise as a class skill for life and qualifies you for draconic heritage, granting perform for life. You forgot to pick up combat casting to qualify for abjurant champion, but you could give up combat reflexes for the feat and then simply cast heroics when you know you will need combat reflexes.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3. You make good use of the archangel, archmage, and gladiator mask, but I think MoM has diminishing returns for the character past level 2-4. You still go all 10 levels for the sake of the challenge though.

    Overall: 3.5


    The Masquerade:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Main thoughts: Well, thereís nothing wrong with a charger/tripper build, but what does it have to do with master of masks or bard? It still hits BAB +16, so itís certain to put out a lot of damage, but I donít see the masks themselves contributing much to the build compared with straight levels of fighter, barbarian, or warblade. Overall itís a strong start, but unpolished.

    Originality: 3. Itís an unexpected build, but Iíve seen shock trooper/tripping builds so often that I sometimes forget there are melees out there who donít take that path.

    Power : 2.5. I think this would be a perfectly good build for a typical game with low to medium optimization, especially if youíre creative with your masks. If the rest of your party is moderately optimized, however, I think it will be difficult to find a niche aside from buffer and charger Ė and with 14 d6ís of HD, you have a glass jaw from 7-20. Thereís also more you could have done within the build to capitalize in what you have Ė Wolf Totem variant barbarian would have gotten improved trip for free at barbarian 2, saving 2 feats, while the whirling frenzy variant of rage has great synergy with snowflake wardance.

    Elegance: 4. No issues here, youíve got 2 base classes and then 10 levels in MoM. The feats progress in a fairly logical manner, and all you need is core+completes. I would have taken quick draw out and moved all the other feats down 1 in the progression, then at 18 taken a different feat (improved toughness maybe).

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 2. In the end I donít think MoM helped you much beyond a 1 level dip for spiked chains and fly. Warchanter or dervish (with kusari-gamas or spinning swords or whatever else you want from the gladiator mask) would have been good to see in the build.

    Overall: 2.875.


    Seera
    Spoiler
    Show


    Main thoughts: A very unexpected and interesting build! I liked her story too.

    Originality: 5. I was not expecting to see an artificer entry to MoM, and your use of artificer to augment masks was a very original idea.

    Power : 4.5. The build has the potential to be an excellent combatant with the right masks. I agree with the interpretation that you keep the older ways to swap out a mask, and with the proper lineup of masks then a few times per day you could have self-buffing potential matched only by an optimized war weaver or cleric. I would have liked to see some more tactics, but since artificers can be so open-ended when it comes to strategies, I can understand when you left it fairly open. Ultimately you have to ask whether this build measures up to artificer 20, and Iíd say it does a solid job, though losing 11 levels of craft reserves and 7 levels of infusions is pretty harsh.

    Elegance: 2.5. Thereís a few issues I wasnít comfortable with. First, the build requires a lot of DM oversight due to the heavy reliance on self-crafted adjustments to the masks. A conservative DM would be within her rights to rule that the masks clearly follow a unique pricing model of 100g and cannot be modified like other magic items, especially with the use-activated ability being the action to don the mask. Second, I felt like most of the feats were an afterthought. Why go for double wand wielder if youíre going to make a character who buffs and then melees, for example? And the dragonmark chain seems like a trap even for role-playing reasons, given that you can simply craft the spells that the dragonmark series gives you. Finally, the level of rogue for the skill requirements stuck out a bit, though you made good use of it.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 5. Definitely makes strong use of the masks and the ability to swap them out rapidly.

    Overall: 4.25

    Keiji
    Spoiler
    Show

    Main thoughts: First off, I love the blue-eyed ninja image. It reminds me of Garou Manga. This build is certainly out there though Ė I really like the way it all fits together for a very strange, but certainly effective, character. Definitely one of my favorites so far!

    Originality: 5. This is about as far from the Master of Masks as I could have expected, but it does a great job with it.

    Power : 4. Early to mid level I think Keiji is going to struggle a lot, especially as a VoP character. You have +11 BAB at level 20 Ė not really enough to punch things in the face reliably, and when you do hit somebody, it wonít be for a whole lot of damage. At levels 13+, however, the build really comes together with the masks supplementing the apostle of peaceís spell list and both offsetting the typical weaknesses of a VoP build. A stronger build might have only taken 7 levels of MoM in order to get 9th level casting from Apostle of Peace.

    Elegance: 4.5. Overall an elegant build with few mechanical issues. I donít think Serpent Fang or Nimbus of Light will do much good for the character, and Iíd move Touch of Golden Ice up earlier. Also, feats from 12-18 should be going towards spellcasting rather than melee. Everything works pretty well together though.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4. You make good use of MoM in order to shore up the other weaknesses of the build and to supplement your melee or spellcasting. Itís a late entry and you donít finish it, but both are excusable.

    Overall: 4.375


    Nameless
    Spoiler
    Show

    Main thoughts: Ah, Incarnum Ė is there any build that you canít improve? I thought this was a very well-assembled build that made good use of the various classes that it used. Thank you for the highly detailed level-by-level rundown, which gave me a much better understanding of how the build worked.

    Originality: 4.5. Weíve already had one flying sneak attack build, but this is quite different from the previous one. You made good use of the synergy between most of the class abilities as well.

    Power : 4. Seems to be a fairly flexible build that can put out a nice bundle of damage all day long.

    Elegance: 3.5 The classes are a bit jumbled, particularly the 1 level of factotum. As a sidenote, to benefit from the splitting property you must have the Precise Shot feat, which you still need. However, the build is strong from 2-20 and doesnít require any strange rules interpretations to function.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3. Honestly, master of masks seems less important to the build than chameleon and incarnate/totemist. It gives more sneak attack damage and some more bonuses to attacks and a bunch of skills, but nothing that the build really needs. I felt like more levels in incarnate or chameleon might have served just as well.

    Overall: 3.75


    Dagger:
    Spoiler
    Show

    Main thoughts: Ooh, a spylord! My PCs love this PrC, so Iíll show them this entry so they can drool over the possibilities it opens up. Overall this is a strong entry, with another cool background.

    Originality: 3.5. To be honest, this is in line with my expectations for a MoM build. I liked the storyline as well.

    Power : 3. Losing 8 CLs from archivist is like taking a punch to the gut, but thankfully the good stealth and scouting spells are all low to mid level. Heís incredibly difficult to find magically (though with no ranks in hide a good spot check can locate him, oddly enough), but thatís not really a useful PC role without the attacks to pack it up. Itís a bit difficult to pin down what Dagger is going to do in most combats though Ė what is he going to do at 20th level, for example?

    Elegance: 3.5. The factotum sticks out a bit, but otherwise the class levels are solid and well distributed. I didnít particularly care for VoP at the end though.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 4.5. I thought combining MoMís masks with the spymasterís cover identities was an excellent idea, since it makes those cover identities much more believable.

    Overall: 3.625


    Tanitha No-Face
    Spoiler
    Show

    Main thoughts: Wow, another sneak attack build! I didnít realize the assassinís mask would be so popular in this contest. Though it looks a little unfocused, you ended up turning MoM into a semi-theurge build at the end.

    Originality: 3. Not the only assassin or the only sneak attack build, though cleric was new. I enjoyed the story as well.

    Power : 3. You have a wide range of abilities between MoM, assassin, and cleric casting, but none of them really pack a strong punch.

    Elegance: 3.5. A very simple and fairly effective entry, then a 10/5 split with the other 2 PrCs. As a note, Practiced Spellcaster does not allow you to apply the feat twice to the same spellcasting, though this did not hurt your score. Some of the feats seem like a waste (Great Fortitude?), which could be replaced with something like Craven or Darkstalker.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: 3. You take all 10 levels and the masks contribute towards your quasi-theurge abilities, but the whole build still feels slightly unfocused to me.

    Overall: 3.125
    Handbooks: (Hosted on BG)
    [3.5] The Poison Handbook
    [3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
    [3.5 Base Class] Healer's Handbook

    Trophies!
    Spoiler
    Show

    Thanks to Strategos and Jumilk for the awesome Iron Chef trophies!

  8. - Top - End - #158
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Thank you, Akal Saris, for getting your judging done so quickly!

    *Scribbles notes from the Reigning Champ in an effort to improve in future*
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  9. - Top - End - #159
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Ajadea's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Not Here
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Looks like so far Keiji's in the lead. Wonder who entered it?
    Games DMing: The Wrong Guys The Life in Your Stories
    Avatar by me.
    deviantArt~~~ I have a Nuzlocke Comic too.

  10. - Top - End - #160
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajadea View Post
    Looks like so far Keiji's in the lead. Wonder who entered it?
    You'll find out after the other 4 judges give their opinions.

    It also looks like Ingus was right. At the moment, it's a three-way battle between Keiji, Seera, and the never-ending backstory.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  11. - Top - End - #161
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    I'm pretty sure I know who Seera is from ^_^
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by hotel_papa View Post
    I maintain that until I see a movie trailer where Patrick Stewart introduces himself as Mordenkainen, there never was and never will be a D&D movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by dixieboy View Post
    I am unable to respond due to the awesomness of seducing a god, sorry
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

    Avatar by aravaincomprehensiblename

  12. - Top - End - #162
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Heliomance View Post
    I'm pretty sure I know who Seera is from ^_^
    Me too.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  13. - Top - End - #163
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Well, yes. He sent it to you!
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by hotel_papa View Post
    I maintain that until I see a movie trailer where Patrick Stewart introduces himself as Mordenkainen, there never was and never will be a D&D movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by dixieboy View Post
    I am unable to respond due to the awesomness of seducing a god, sorry
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

    Avatar by aravaincomprehensiblename

  14. - Top - End - #164
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Yeah! That took forever!

    Janeth

    Power-hmmm well since you dipped several classes that are often considered weak and used your casting progression on a halfcasting PrC the bar is pretty
    low and you definately cleared it. 4

    Elegence-I'm kind of annoyed that at very low levels the character is basically a weaker swashbuckler, on the other hand your backstory implies he wasn't an adventurer/a character meant to be played at low levels. Any instinct to deduct points for dipping is completely dismissed when I see that the dips make the character the unfocused fop heís supposed to be and taking their stronger levels feels very appropriate after heís unlocked his true potential. 4.5

    Use of secret Ingredient-Takes all ten levels and is made of fail without it. 5

    Originality- While very well written the background and overall concept/feel are very much what I expected to be par for the course, however the mechanically the character being unable to be a chameleon is great. 4

    Overall 4.375

    Shen

    Power- I like the use of multiple wand sheaths (or whatever their called) to make the sorceror dip that should feel like a boost rather than a drain at low levels on the other hand theres enough sorceror casting that I would want to see more at the table. 3

    Elegance- MoM feels like it was forced upon what could have been a much stronger gish. 3.5

    Use of Secret ingredient- MoM doesnít seem to do much other than add more skills. I loved the multiple exotic weapons with wand sheaths however it feels like it could have been done with martial weapons. Maybe some synergyís not seeing with some of the weapons. 2.5

    Originality- I wasnít expecting to see a fighter/sorceror gish but, abjurant champion is pretty much the text book method to make any random build into a decent gish. 3.5

    Overall 3.125

    Masquerade

    Power-Seems like a fairly strong character; enough Barbarian to get what you want out of it, a bard dip for skills/music/minor casting then MoM. Then MoM it seems like you pretty much took all the best masks though itís a bit disappointing that it seems like he walks around in gladiator 90% of the time and uses it to simulate a single feat. The end result seems significantly weaker than Barbarian 20 or Barbarian 10/Bard 10 2.5

    Elegance-The build is simple, and decent. Even though the build was strong for 10 levels then went down hill when you took MoM, I feel like this isnít due to MoM being ham fisted into a good build but, the build failing to meat your expectatons. 4

    Use of Secret Ingredient- Even though as I said MoM drags this character down and te masks other than gladiator are under used I still like your ďUseĒ of the secret ingrediant. 3.5

    Origionality- I wasnít expecting to see a Barbarian build, and Barbarian/Bard/MoM is probably the most original and coolest builds Iíve ever seen for the classic barbarian>slave>gladiator>hero character. 4.5

    Overall 3.625

    Iíd like to say a few things here, first if MoM was a stronger melee class, say medium BAB and two floating feats like chameleon or if gladiator granted 1 or two fighter feats at high levels, your power would be much higher. Also one thing I loved is it made me think of Pro wrestling if that was intentional playing that up could have netted a higher Use of Secret Ingredient and Originality score. Since at level ten you can make masks invisible he could make all but the gladiator mask invisible then use the angel mask to descend from the heavens, then use some bard spells for special effects, then switch to jester for a bonus to perform(weapon drill) bard spells could help here too.

    Seera

    Power- Iím tempted to go higher however this character is weak for an Artificer and as I said enter the before I grade on a sliding scale based on your class(es) you enter the PrC as. 3.5

    Elegence-I really like the way the Artificer levels are mixed in at the new mask levels itís a very nice melding of crunch and fluff. The items you crafted were great and I think that the cool factor would get them past most DMís however they would probably regret it later and nerf it. Iím really torn on how to score you here because honestly most of the above negatives are true almost anytime a artificer is involved. 3.5

    Use of Secret Ingredient-This MoM build is well a Master of Masks. The use of mask switching to break action economy was great and without that cheese itís still cool as hell. 5

    Originality- I really like the overall character the things you did mechanically are really great. And itís well Original. 5

    Overall 4.25

    Kuiji

    Power-Well heís an Apostle of Peace, He can cast high level spells, and can do significant subdual damage and inflict non-damage status effects. This is pretty much standard for an AoP. 3.5

    Elegance-The alternating levels of ninja and monk seem to work quite well I could easily see them in Dragon Magazine as the first 7 levels of ďStudent of the Sister SchoolsĒ. Monk/Ninja is a good lead in to AoP but thatís no surprise. MoM feels tacked on at the end also flight comes from angel not archmage but more importantly you already have air walk, which can use your increased speed, from AoP when you take your first level of MoM. 2.5

    Use of Secret Ingredient- MoM is tacked on, it feels like itís most useful ability to this build is advancing itís 4/10 casting advancement. 2

    Originality-Iíve seen plenty of unarmed AoPs but, I didnít expect one in this competition. 4

    Overall: 3.0

    Faceless

    Power- Chameleon 7 gives you 6th level casting from two lists while incarnum and MoM grant decent constant abilities. 4

    Elegance- It all makes sense. Nothing wrong with it but, no great synergy either. Also Chameleon and MoM donít seem to mesh well, unless MoM is a dip, it feels like itís taking away chameleon levels that would be better. 3

    Use of Secret Ingredient- I meant to say in my post about judging criteria that Iíd give a one in Origionality and Use of Secret Ingredient to any build that had MoM+Chameleon levels at or approaching 15. I meant to, but didnít, so I wonít be quite so harsh. Also he has enough MoM levels tat his masks are a significant boost even though the character is less powerful/versatile the same build with less MoM and more Chameleon. 2.5

    Originality-Incarnum and the backstory were cool but wandering jack of all trades chameleon/MoM not original. 2.5

    Overall 3

    Dagger

    Power-Weak for an Archivist but really, spymaster is the most prominent class outside of MoM and dagger is an exceptional spymaster. 4

    Elegance- This is definitely a simple elegant build. Factotum 1/Archivist 4 is as good a jumping off point as any. 4

    Use of Secret Ingredient- I loved how all the covers were masked for various reasons. MoM goes a long ways towards impersonating figures with vastly different abilities. The advancements to Archivist casting were helpful too without overshadowing the non casting abilities. 4.5

    Origionality-MoM as a masked spy, not surprising. However the background was very fresh and I wasnít expecting spymaster, largely because itís not a powerful class, but it was very well used. 4

    Overall: 4.25

    No Face

    First, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that caster level boosts grant you better spells per day, sorry they donít they simply make spells with effects that have ď/ lvlĒ variables more powerful. A level 20 this build will cast as a 7th lvl cleric with a meaning fourth level spells with a caster level of 13. You also cannot take practiced spell caster twice for 1 class.

    Power- With 4th level cleric spells, low level assassin spells, MoM abilities probably floating around tier 4-low 3. 2.5

    Elegance- Until I figured out the caster level mistake I was seriously scratching my head at this build. Also the Assassin class isnít especially helpful to you. I believe youíd be better off as a spell thief or lurk 10. Also philosophy clerics are often frowned upon by Dms. Iíll show some leniency though since you thought cleric would be more useful than it is by giving you casting to bump up to high power levels. 2.5

    Use of Secret Ingredient-Hard to judge since you thought it was giving you 6 levels of cleric casting. Though I suppose I should rate low for putting poor casting advancment ahead of any other abilities. 2

    Originality - A multitalented assassin is one of the first things that comes to mind for MoM and a street child with magical talent is a stereotypical assassin. Also in addition to being suboptimal Assassin levels are also predictable. 2

    Overall: 2.25
    Last edited by Hand_of_Vecna; 2010-06-28 at 07:24 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #165
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Again, thank you for your prompt evaluation, Hand of Vecna.
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  16. - Top - End - #166
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    I'm amused how opposite some of the votes are for the same builds.

  17. - Top - End - #167
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    I'm amused how opposite some of the votes are for the same builds.
    Given how some of the builds make radically different assumptions about the masks, that's sort of expected.
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  18. - Top - End - #168
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Boilerplate Disclaimer: anything said below is a reflection of my personal opinion towards the work presented for my viewing, nothing more. I make no judgments about the presenter, as the level of effort expended to create something for this is absolutely marvelous. Well done, everyone.

    Jereth

    Originality: 3.5. Lots of Paragon classes was actually something I was really expecting to see. Swashbuckler and Assassin were a bit new, but overall, this is just on the good side of expected.
    Power: 3. Seems solid in many areas. Your damage out-put is acceptable, if unexceptional. Jereth seems like a character who can do a lot and is useful in a lot of ways, but can't stand up in any single way for long.
    Elegance: 4. This is smoothly executed and well built. I'm impressed, actually, at the synergies you discovered here. Well done.
    Use of Master of Masks: 4.5. This feels to me like a textbook case of excellent usage of MoM. I see no flaws in how you used the class.

    Total: 3.75. This is a solid, enjoyable build. Your story was creative and well-written, the character was interestingly thought out, I'm pleased with it. Well done.

    Shen, the Masked Dragon

    Originality: 3.5. I was expecting a gish build. I wasn't expecting it to start with a Thug Zhent Fighter. Creative. I like it.
    Power: 4. I think Shen has more raw ability at his fingertips than, say, Jereth, thanks to the better spell list and more focus on the casting (thanks to Abjurant Champion). He's got a lot of tricks and probably a lot of raw power.
    Elegance: 3. Something about it rubs me wrong. It feels interesting, but uninspired. It's hard to place, but I'm going with my gut here. This isn't a slam on you, but something about Shen just feels... "eh".
    Use of Master of Masks: 3.5. This is a good use of MoM, though not the best. I notice a heavy reliance on Wraithstrike, which I feel is somewhat "eh" especially when you have other gishy things you could be doing. Instead, it's "wraithstrike, PA with a spiked chain" which while GOOD is sorta EH. I like at higher levels how you use the immediate action mask swaps to use the Archmage Mask to do hilarious stuff.

    Total: 3.5. Shen's a good solid character. Something puts me off slightly, but since I can't place it, I won't really dock you for it.

    The Masquerade

    Originality: 3.5. Bard? Ok. Barbarian...? Uh... ok? 6 levels of Barbarian? Ok, you lost me now. Creative indeed.
    Power: 2.5. The Masquerade doesn't seem that powerful. He's got the mask tricks, and he's got the barbarian charging, but those don't mix amazingly well really (what with MoM being a half BAB class and Bard not being great either).
    Elegance: 3. Well, it's clean. Can't say much more than that really. I mean, Bbn 6/Brd 4/MoM 10 is the cleanest build I've seen yet.
    Use of Master of Masks: 2. This isn't a good use really. I hate giving bad scores, I really do, but this is not a good place for the class. It's a cute idea, I like the image of a grandstanding gladiator, but it mechanically doesn't flow well (I think a 1 level dip for the Gladiator mask would be better for this concept).

    Total: 2.75. It's a nice image, but not much more. It's playable, but not in a game that uses more than Tier 3-4 classes (and that's probably debatable actually, it's likely better suited for Tiers 4-5).

    Seera díCannith

    Originality: 4. Artificer was not expected. Not at ALL.
    Power: 5. You win at everything forever. Artificer is brutally powerful, your reading of Master of Masks is HILARIOUS in its abusability, and this is probably one of the most potentially powerful new builds I've seen in a long time.
    Elegance: 2. Eh. I hate giving you this score. However, what you're doing is abusing the custom item creation rules, which, well, is an ABUSE. Those rules are well understood to be easily breakable, and are often not permitted at tables. This character, as much as I like it, is breakable in this regard, and so gets a low score on Elegance from me (relying on a cheesy mechanic is never good for elegance).
    Use of Master of Masks: 3? This is tough to judge. On the one hand, it's a great usage of a subpar class. On the other hand, its really just a unique outlet for abuse of the magic item creation rules. I can't really say it's a BAD use of MoM, but I'm not going to call it the best one I've ever seen. It's creative and unique though.

    Total: 3.5. The power is off the chain (lolificier helps here), the creativity is pretty good, but the use of the secret ingredient and the abuse of the creation rules mark it down.

    Keiji Mutoh
    Ok, an introductory note I want to make for Keiji. Something about this dude makes me lol REALLY hard. Can't place why, but damn, dude makes me laugh. Ninja for Peace is hilarious and reminds me of Dr. McNinja, which means I'm happy reading this dude already.

    Originality: 4.5. Apostle of Peace+Ninja=/=Master of Masks in my mind's eye. I was blown away. GREAT job with the mindtwist there.
    Power: 4. Well, he's an excellent support character, with enough good abilities (I overlooked Cry of Ysgard before, never doing THAT again) to stay relevant for a long while. I fear he might fall out of real usefulness later in his career, but, Planar Ally (much as I hate that line of spells) solves much.
    Elegance: 4. It's not the smoothest level progression. It only takes 9 levels of MoM. However, you managed to blend Apostle of Peace, Ninja/Monk, and Master of Masks into a single cohesive whole that is really creative and flavorful. If this isn't the definition of Elegance, I don't know what is.
    Use of Master of Masks: 3.5. Gotta ding you. You only took 9 levels, and I feel like that last level would have been GREAT for the build's power (immediate action switching is amazing).

    Total: 4. Great build. Highly unexpected, very workable, looks fun. I approve.

    The Faceless

    Originality: 4. Wasn't expecting to see Incarnum. Probably should have in retrospect.
    Power: 4. Seems very capable in many respects. The Faceless looks like you put a large amount of mechanical effort into him, which I respect and like to see.
    Elegance: 1.5. Ugh. I HATE scoring like this, but you did a bunch of stuff that just bothered me. Totemist AND Incarnate? 1 random level of Factotum? The same amount of Chameleon as Master of Masks? This is not elegant! It's a mess! Yes, it makes a better character, but dammit, it looks terrible!
    Use of Master of Masks: 2. Chameleon. You took 7 levels of MoM AND of Chameleon. You could easily have cut three from the latter and given them to the former, and you didn't, and I have to wonder why. Was it for power? Did you just not like Master of Masks (it's crying itself to sleep tonight because you don't love it enough )? I don't know what it was, but it saddens me and cheapens a good build.

    Total: 2.875. I feel guilty. It was a good concept, neato story (loved the tripwires, great cruel touch), and pretty solid, but the gaffs with the build just put me off something fierce.

    Dagger
    A note about Dagger. This build is questionable. The taking of Vow of Poverty is, at best, RAW abuse. See, when you stop meeting the prerequisites of a feat, you lose it. That's how feats work (and this is clarified somewhere, not sure where though, sorry). Also, when you lose an Exalted feat, it is implied it's gone forever (not RAW that I know of, but it's implied VERY strongly and is probably RAI). Thus, I really don't think VoP works here. I am grading it as though VoP is some other, irrelevant, feat (like Toughness).

    Originality: 3.5. I LOVED the story, it's masterfully written and very very enjoyable to read. Not what I was expecting at ALL. However, the mechanics weren't that unexpected (I was expecting more Spymaster than we've seen actually).
    Power: 3.5. Dagger is pretty competent overall. Not much unique, though he'd be a brutally hard to pin-down opponent.
    Elegance: 3.5. It's alright elegance-wise, really hard for me to say anything super interesting or crazily unique about it (but see Use of MoM below).
    Use of Master of Masks: 2. STOP DOING THE 7/7 THING! Really guys, make a sacrifice here. Spymaster, while nice and everything, wasn't the secret ingredient here! Master of Masks was!

    Total: 3.125. A good, if unexciting, character. The 7/7 thing needs to go away though.

    Tanitha No-Face

    Originality: 2.5. Rogue/Assassin/MoM with a Cleric dip. Ho-hum.
    Power: 2.5. Due to Practiced Spellcaster not doing what you seem to think (it only advances Caster Level, NOT Spells Per Day, and doesn't stack besides), this build is pretty underwhelming. It's a fairly bad sneaky rogue with some minor cleric spells. Now, if MoM was advancing Assassin casting and you had a better Int, it might be a little better... but then why have Cleric at all?
    Elegance: 3. It's functional, if unexciting. The whole CL=/=Spells Per Day thing is a bad mark though.
    Use of Master of Masks: 3. It's a standard use, if subpar IMO.

    Total: 2.75. It stabs dudes and they falls downs. Gogo Assassin. You goofed really hard on Practiced Spellcaster, and need to brush up on what that actually does. Otherwise, there's some promise here.

    Personal favorite: Dagger, actually. Now, I didn't score him that well, but I LOVED the story and the perspective. It was deliciously twisted and I loved every single god damn minute of it.

    Highest Score: The Ninja of Peace, Keiji. He's pretty far and away the best thing here, IMO.

    Again, well done one and all.

  19. - Top - End - #169
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Just got my first look at the entries. Will look at them tonight, should have scores up in the next two days.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. [...]Where did you start yours?
    A street riot in a major city that was getting violent.
    Spoiler
    Show

  20. - Top - End - #170
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

    Join Date
    Feb 2010

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Your Welcome, and ya I expected alot of my judging to go against the grain. I tried to explain myself. Also since # levels taken in the secret ingredient has gone up since the first few competitions I was really strict about wanting people to USE the secret ingredient.

    Oh, lemme come out and say something now, I got my judging out early for two reasons.

    1. To spark discussion since I have some very different thoughts then some and

    2. Tossing it out there if I bashed your build mechanically and you think I missed something let me know and I'll take a second look.

  21. - Top - End - #171
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    This contest was really excellent. There were a LARGE number of great stories (which are fun to write and to read and make me WAY more interested in judging).

    However, there was a massive issue I encountered more than once (how, I don't know): the "lets take equal levels in Master of Masks and something else" syndrome. What's this about folks? I mean, really? This contest is about Master of Masks! Not Chameleon, not Spymaster, not any other class or prestige class, it's about Master of Masks. At least make it the dominant class in your build! This really ticked me off, and I tanked two builds because of it (even my favorite build, Dagger). It says that you didn't really care enough to shuffle stuff around and get MoM as the focus, which doesn't speak well of you, the cook.

    Still, that major issue aside, I was very pleased with this contest. There were some great builds, and I'm interested to know who made Dagger specifically. Man, I LOVED him. I've got my guesses, but, yeah.

  22. - Top - End - #172
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Thank you for your quick and insightful commentary, arguskos.
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  23. - Top - End - #173
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Thank you for your quick and insightful commentary, arguskos.
    1. Damn right.

    2. Much as I appreciate it, ya don't need to thank me dude. To quote, "We don't do this... thing because we want to. We do it because we're compelled to."

  24. - Top - End - #174
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    *takes notes for future contests*

    I want another of these soon :D. They're fun.
    Last edited by Arbitrarity; 2010-06-28 at 08:32 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #175
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    1. Damn right.

    2. Much as I appreciate it, ya don't need to thank me dude. To quote, "We don't do this... thing because we want to. We do it because we're compelled to."
    Yeah, but thanking Akal Saris for getting it done so fast means I come across as a bit more of a jerk than usual if I don't extend the same courtesy to the rest of y'all.
    Star Metallurgist of the Roy Fanclub

    Who made my awesome Dwarf Hexblade avatar, you ask? BRC did!
    Spoiler
    Show

  26. - Top - End - #176
    Banned
     
    true_shinken's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Ajadea View Post
    Really? Because I swear Shen the Masked Dragon is using Able Learner with an interpretation of 'every single skill ever is your class skill'...
    Except that rule is not like that on 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    Skills

    If a skill is a class skill for any of a multiclass characterís classes, then character level determines a skillís maximum rank. (The maximum rank for a class skill is 3 + character level.)

    If a skill is not a class skill for any of a multiclass characterís classes, the maximum rank for that skill is one-half the maximum for a class skill.
    Emphasis mine.

  27. - Top - End - #177
    Banned
     
    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    The Mindfields
    Gender
    Female

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    *snrks cryptically*


    Anyways, I can understand for most classes the problem with using less or equal levels of an alternative class than the secret ingredient (I felt similar pangs judging the last), however, in a build like Master of Masks where there is little improvement with added levels, mainly just more options, I can see where there really isn't all that much need to go the full 10.

    Once you get the masks you want that blends best with the rest of the build you might as well say it capped at the point of usefulness as there really is no 'cap' to Master of Masks. No comfortable 'I've graduated' moment. Beyond that you're throwing in levels simply to coincide with the contest, not because it improves the strength or elegance or even creativity.

    As well, many PrC's end at levels lower than 10. If the challenge included one of those that only went 5 levels, or, heck 3 levels in a few cases, how would you work that out?

  28. - Top - End - #178
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    Except that rule is not like that on 3.5


    Emphasis mine.
    Except Able Learner doesn't make anything a class skill. If it was cross-class, it has the cross-class rank cap, but the ranks only cost 1 skill point each.
    Quotebox
    Spoiler
    Show
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  29. - Top - End - #179
    Titan in the Playground
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    Anyways, I can understand for most classes the problem with using less or equal levels of an alternative class than the secret ingredient (I felt similar pangs judging the last), however, in a build like Master of Masks where there is little improvement with added levels, mainly just more options, I can see where there really isn't all that much need to go the full 10.
    Except that many masks upgrade the longer you take Master of Masks. You get more spells, more bonuses, etc.

    I mean, it'd be like going on to Iron Chef America, getting a secret ingredient like, say, an entire pig, and ignoring half the pig. Yeah, you CAN, but it's not very classy.

    As well, many PrC's end at levels lower than 10. If the challenge included one of those that only went 5 levels, or, heck 3 levels in a few cases, how would you work that out?
    Honestly, not really sure. Probably wouldn't consider such in my rubric in that case, since it'd be highly unfair. I WOULD however heavily advise against using a non 10-level PrC as the ingredient in one of these challenges. 5 or 3 levels are not enough to really build around. It'd be like trying to build around, say, Fist of the Forest. There's not much there to build around really. That's just me though.

  30. - Top - End - #180
    Banned
     
    true_shinken's Avatar

    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VI

    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    Except Able Learner doesn't make anything a class skill. If it was cross-class, it has the cross-class rank cap, but the ranks only cost 1 skill point each.
    I get Perform from Draconic Heritage: battle dragon. You guys missed on that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •