Variant on Dying

[Twilightwyrm]

So, I was thinking of a variant rule to add to any given campaign setting based on a bit of realism and...well a certain point made here. I can't help but partially agree with the subject of the joke made here, in terms of realism because people don't always go unconscious when bleeding to death, and pragmatically because player do not, in fact, tend to shut up when they are dying (unless it is convenient for them to do so). Given this, I thought of a variant rule that might remedy this, and was wondering if I could get some feedback on the idea:

Concentration:
By making a successful concentration check, a character can stay conscious and partially active while dying. Whenever a character is reduces to -1 or fewer hit point, they immediately fall prone as normal, but may make a concentration check with a DC equal to 15+1 per point of damage they are below 0. Each time they take damage, such from another attacker, or at the end of any round they remain unstabalized, they must make a new concentration check at the modified DC. Additionally, they may make an concentration check at the same DC in order to take a partial action on their initiative count. Upon completion of this action, they take an additional point of damage, bringing them closer to death, and forcing another concentration check to remain conscious. Due to the mental focus required to remain conscious in this state, the character must make a concentration check as if they were taking continuous damage at -20, in order to take any action that would take any action that requires significant concentration, such as the casting of a spell.

I feel this keeps the variant reasonable balanced, without cutting too much into the usefulness of feats such as Diehard, and maintaining a reasonable difficulty from round to round. a 1st level character, for instance, will typically be able to remain conscious for a round or two, while a higher level character with ranks may be able to remain conscious all the way through -9. Indeed, this also gives the character to take a "last action" before slipping into unconsciousness.
A potential downside of this is that some enemies become slightly more problematic to deal with, since they may well remain conscious, if not necessarily effective, through -9 (especially those with higher Con scores). This also has an inadvertent upside, in that player get some time while their opponent is down to decide what to do with them (while this are still awake, but incapacitated), without them immediately knocking out (for the more cinematic or sadistic minded).
It might also not be a bad idea for anyone using this variant to make Concentration a class skill for all classes (or at least the Fighter and Barbarian type classes, if you must deny them to the stealth classes), as staying awake while dying tends to be more thematically indicative of battle hardened warriors than bookish wizards. Adopting this approach then makes sense, the warrior types will typically have higher Con scores than the wizards, and thus a higher Concentration modifier.

So like I said, any feedback and suggestions would be very helpful, whether it is tweaks to the variant rules or problems with them. Further, any discussion of how to mirror this idea in a different manner, either in terms of mechanics, would also be welcome.

[SmileyFaceOfRom]

I like this. The ability to remain conscious while bleeding to death is a classic in many movies, and could provide for some very powerful scenes.
I might suggest making it Constitution based against a DC10+1 point per damage under 0. That way it'll better represent that fighters and people who tend to get stabbed the most, probably are better at dealing with serious injurys.
Not to mention spellcasters would be BAMFing their Concentration checks at high levels. This way, there's still a relative sense of risk despite what level you are.

[Twilightwyrm]

That's not a bad idea, since most people could simply take it as a cross class skill. It does mean, however, that even low level wizards will be fully conscious through -9 (which is the opposite of what you would typically expect). Hence why I was thinking of making the skill a class skill for all classes. Still, minimal changes to the standard rules is preferable, so your plan should be taken under consideration. I wonder if there is a way to reconcile these two methods.

[PetterTomBos]

What about:

You never die of negative hit points. You die of a failed concentration chech. Whenever you have HP < 0 you must roll a concentration check (DC = negative HP) to avoid dieing. Success by more than 10 allows you to be concious.

[Twilightwyrm]

Hmmm...that could work if you wanted to extend it further (and incidentally wouldn't be a bad idea for a PrC ability or feat), but while it may be a staple of cinematic, I feel it crosses a bit too far into the area of the impossible. Also, again, any class with concentration as a class skill suddenly becomes much much better. (Incidentally, the Exemplar become very good)

[SmileyFaceOfRom]

My only concern was classes that typically max out concentration (such as casters) might become overly good at staying conscious. Since the DC ranges from 16 (-1) to 24 (-9), that might make it overly difficult for combat oriented classes because they tend to have lower intelligence, which means less skill points. And, again, Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, etc. tend to have Concentration very high, which is why I suggested it be Constitution based.

[Treblain]

Doesn't Autohypnosis already do something like this?

[Yitzi]

Doesn't Autohypnosis already do something like this?

It's unclear; it might just make you stop losing hit points.

But even if it does, concentration is a more common skill than autohypnosis and can be used untrained.

[Vlos]

Rather than concentration check, make it a fort save.

This would again make it favor the fighter types.

base DC on what ever you feel is good.

[Twilightwyrm]

Rather than concentration check, make it a fort save.

This would again make it favor the fighter types.

base DC on what ever you feel is good.

I was considering that, and it id definitely worth considering, but the problem is that not all strictly fighting characters actually have this as a primary save. Knights, for instance (and for a reason I have yet to fully understand), have poor Fort saves, and yet are perhaps the class best known for this in literature and cinema. Though I'll admit these classes are few and far between, the matter becomes further muddles when PrCs are taken into play. Additionally, Fort saves are exceptionally easy to improve via magic items where by contrast, I have found anyways, Concentration is not. Finally, Concentration is already a fairly one dimensional skill and having a purpose outside of spell casting is perhaps called for (although it brings up the issues I put forth). Still, this is not a bad suggestion by any means (indeed, as a rule I will grant it does make a lot of sense), and I will certainly consider it further.

[Sir_Chivalry]

I was considering that, and it id definitely worth considering, but the problem is that not all strictly fighting characters actually have this as a primary save. Knights, for instance (and for a reason I have yet to fully understand), have poor Fort saves, and yet are perhaps the class best known for this in literature and cinema. Though I'll admit these classes are few and far between, the matter becomes further muddles when PrCs are taken into play. Additionally, Fort saves are exceptionally easy to improve via magic items where by contrast, I have found anyways, Concentration is not. Finally, Concentration is already a fairly one dimensional skill and having a purpose outside of spell casting is perhaps called for (although it brings up the issues I put forth). Still, this is not a bad suggestion by any means (indeed, as a rule I will grant it does make a lot of sense), and I will certainly consider it further.

Then just give Knights, Hexblades, and any other character in the situation the ability to use their Will Save. If might encourage Will focused characters to dip Knight or Hexblade.

[Twilightwyrm]

Then just give Knights, Hexblades, and any other character in the situation the ability to use their Will Save. If might encourage Will focused characters to dip Knight or Hexblade.

Then already I'm adding features to other classes, in which case why not just add concentration to the class skill list of most every class?

[Morph Bark]

Then just give Knights, Hexblades, and any other character in the situation the ability to use their Will Save. If might encourage Will focused characters to dip Knight or Hexblade.

Better yet, give those a good Fort save. Knights deserve it.