Underwater D&D 3.5

[Knaight]

Where is the room?

[Aeolius]

it's on the irc.otherworlders.org server

[Zolkabro]

Kokrulis needs a little tweaking. Here's what I recommend (my suggestions are in bold)

• +2 wisdom, +2 intelligence, -2 dexterity, -2 charisma
• 30 movement
• +4 natural armour
• Usually worship Aksékhasdos
• Stability: Kokrulises gain a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped.
• Darkvision
• +4 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks when in water. A Kokrulis who merely passes within 4 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if s/he were actively looking for it.
• Automatic languages: Kokrulish, Turtle, Aquan, Common
• Swim speed 40.

I have made these corrections. Thank you.

Creatures that can swim should have an automatic Swim speed.

What is the average swim speed? What speeds are considered fast and slow?

You should note which creatures a have the Aquatic subtype (and thus breathe only water), which have the Aquatic subtype with the amphibious special ability which allows them to breathe both air and water and which are simply fully air-breathing (and would not have the Aquatic subtype even if they live solely in the water).

I only want really high level adventurers to go on land or above water, so is there a way to make creatures become amphibious at level 16, or 20?

I will do the classes soon.

[hamishspence]

Make it the capstone of a prestige class, or a high level spell.

Items that the party could only expect to find (or buy) at high level might help.

[Aeolius]

The highlight of my beach trip last week (Topsail Beach, NC) was something I experienced alone. I was walking into the ocean to swim with my wife and children, who were playing in the surf. I looked out at the waves, smelled the salt in the wind, and smiled. "I am a citizen of the ocean." I said aloud, quoting Mark Harris in "Man From Atlantis". At that exact moment a dozen stingrays swam around my feet. It was magical.

[Zolkabro]

The highlight of my beach trip last week (Topsail Beach, NC) was something I experienced alone. I was walking into the ocean to swim with my wife and children, who were playing in the surf. I looked out at the waves, smelled the salt in the wind, and smiled. "I am a citizen of the ocean." I said aloud, quoting Mark Harris in "Man From Atlantis". At that exact moment a dozen stingrays swam around my feet. It was magical.

That's amazing.

[Debihuman]

What is the average swim speed? What speeds are considered fast and slow?

See Monster Manual page 298 in the chart on the right it shows typical speed. Slow Swim speed is 40 ft., Normal is 60 ft. and Fast is 80 ft. [Water naga for example is 50 ft.].

This is the truly hard part of race and monster creation. The rules are really spread out [PH, DMG and MM). I have several sources that help me find things quickly, the online SRD here: http://www.d20srd.org. Also, some rules have been updated and those changes can be found in the Rules Compendium.

I generally don't critique homebrew races for balances as that's not my forte.

If you like feel free to use my cecaelia: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4216596.

Other monsters for underwater include my pearl and coral dragons:

coral dragon: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...01&postcount=1

pearl dragon: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...37&postcount=1

Edit: There is an airbreathing spell in Stormwrack.

Debby

[Aeolius]

I have also found this to be quite handy: Monster Index

I have coral and pearl dragons as well. though mine are a bit different: "As a gift to her daughters of elven blood, the midnight hag devised dragons unique to their domains. For the sylvan woodhags and subterranean greyhags, a host of draconic creatures appeared. For the salt hag, daughter from union with sea elves, an alliance was forged with the humble dragon turtle. Through the powers of her shapeshifting magics coupled with an infusion from her mystic heartstone, the first of the hagstone dragons; coral, pearl, and abalone emerged."

[hamishspence]

Dragon 345 had Sea Serpents (Crested, Spiked, Lantern)- which followed the dragon progression from wyrmling to great wyrm.

Megalodons in MM2 seem awfully fast (Swim speed of 120 ft). Give it the Run feat and Rapid Swimming, and it can outpace a speedboat.

[Aeolius]

Dragon 345 had Sea Serpents (Crested, Spiked, Lantern)

That reminds me of what I did to a deepwater eye-of-the-deep (seaholder); I made it like an angler with its eye stalks acting as lures.

[hamishspence]

That would be an interesting way of doing it.

Despite having lanterns, there's no actual mechanical effect, for the Dragon Magazine Lantern Serpent, and the Anauroch City of Shade Shadow Sea Serpent.

[Zolkabro]

I appreaciate all the page numbers that you are giving me, but I have always used the online versions. Page numbers are useless to me. EDIT: This has been sorted. I have obtained a copy of the Monster Manual. I'm probably going to keep using the online SRD for most things, though.

Swim speed, favoured class, and a few other things are now on the first post.

I think I will add your idea to the list of non-playable creatures, Aeolius. I haven't written that list down yet, but I have several things in mind for it.

[hamishspence]

One of the things I noticed in Elaine Cunningham's Starlight & Shadows series, was that underwater fighting involved taking advantage of the eddies stirred up by a target's own sudden movements- letting an enemy's swing "suck" your own weapon in past his defenses.

Might an underwater Manuever school, for martial classes, reflect this sort of thing?

[Debihuman]

I have coral and pearl dragons as well. though mine are a bit different: "As a gift to her daughters of elven blood, the midnight hag devised dragons unique to their domains. For the sylvan woodhags and subterranean greyhags, a host of draconic creatures appeared. For the salt hag, daughter from union with sea elves, an alliance was forged with the humble dragon turtle. Through the powers of her shapeshifting magics coupled with an infusion from her mystic heartstone, the first of the hagstone dragons; coral, pearl, and abalone emerged."

Aeolius, have you ever posted the stats for your hagstone dragons?

Debby

[Aeolius]

Aeolius, have you ever posted the stats for your hagstone dragons?

It's on my queue... along with Ecology of the Shellycoat, Ecology of the Midnight Hag, “Seas & Trees: Ecologies of the Woodhag, Salthag, and Greyhag", Necrology of the Spirit Hag, Ecology of the Krampus (my take on the krampus), Ecology of the Stormhags, Tsantsa: Shrunken Heads, reboots of Turucambi, The Sinking Isle, and the Jungle of Lost Ships, “Nature of the Beast” as a viable d20/OGL campaign, and my urban module series: Slipshod, Servant Unseen, Action/Reaction, “The King is a Fink!”, and Ooze Your Daddy?

Now I just need an evil clone or the dual-brain mutation ;)

[Zolkabro]

Race pictures added.
Unfortunately I couldn't find any good pictures of a sahaguin underwater, and of course they all had just 2 legs, unlike my verion which has 4.

[Aeolius]

Race pictures added.
Unfortunately I couldn't find any good pictures of a sahaguin underwater, and of course they all had just 2 legs, unlike my verion which has 4.

You could always start with a 3D model like DAZ3D's gillman and modify it.

[Zolkabro]

You could always start with a 3D model like DAZ3D's gillman and modify it.

How would I modify it?

EDIT: Deity pictures added. Some pictures, like Krazanio, Cephalofolk, and Kraken, seem not to have worked. Anyone know why?

[Debihuman]

I could see all of them except for Kraken -- might be you have a spacing issue in the image line.

Debby

[Aeolius]

How would I modify it?

DAZ Studio (Free) or Poser ($$$).

They have octopoid models HERE and HERE

[Zolkabro]

I'm really sorry I haven't been doing anything, but I currently have a truckload of exams to work through, and it has left very little time for homebrewing.

Anyway, the aquamancer has been put into the first post. It is a class I homebrewed, but apart from it I think the rest will stick to the SRD.
What do people think? Am I missing anything? Are there any particularly bad features? Don't be afraid to be harsh, it is my first homebrew class and I don't expect it to be perfect.

Spell list coming soon.

[Debihuman]

Your Aquamancer needs HD, BAB, Saves and Spellcasting progression. A table would be helpful. If you don't know how to post tables use this and fill in the appropriate sections.


20 LEVEL SPELLCASTING BASE CLASS
{table=head]Level| BAB |Fort | Ref | Will | Special |0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-

2nd|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-

3rd|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-

4th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-

5th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

19th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

[Zolkabro]

Your Aquamancer needs HD, BAB, Saves and Spellcasting progression. A table would be helpful. If you don't know how to post tables use this and fill in the appropriate sections.


20 LEVEL SPELLCASTING BASE CLASS
{table=head]Level| BAB |Fort | Ref | Will | Special |0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

1st|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-

2nd|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-

3rd|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-

4th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-

5th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-

6th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

7th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

8th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

9th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

10th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

11th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

12th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

13th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

14th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

15th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

16th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

17th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

18th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

19th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

20th|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|

+x

|Class Ability|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

Done. Anything else?

EDIT: I have added the Domains to the first post.

[Debihuman]

Domains look good but slightly repetitive. You should look to see if there are a few more that fit in.

There is Water as a domain, but also "Ocean" and "Watery Death" from Player's Guide to Faerun. While those aren't open content, you can still refer to them. Alternatively, you could make up a few that are specific to your world.

Debby

[hamishspence]

Watery Death is a prestige domain.

Sea Mother Whip (Underdark) grants access to it. While its supposed to be open to Umberlee as well, I can't find the Umberlee PRC that grants it (Waveservant, in Faiths & Pantheons, doesn't)

Stormwrack has the Storm domain, Blackwater domain, and Seafolk domain (and the Ocean domain).

Ocean domain is also in Complete Divine, and Spell Compendium.

[Zolkabro]

Watery Death is a prestige domain.

Sea Mother Whip (Underdark) grants access to it. While its supposed to be open to Umberlee as well, I can't find the Umberlee PRC that grants it (Waveservant, in Faiths & Pantheons, doesn't)

Stormwrack has the Storm domain, Blackwater domain, and Seafolk domain (and the Ocean domain).

Ocean domain is also in Complete Divine, and Spell Compendium.

I didn't realise there were so many. I just looked through the ones in the Player's Handbook.

I will add more soon.

[Aeolius]

Does anyone else keep saltwater aquariums? If you are running an undersea adventure, I highly recommend it, as it can be an endless source of inspiration.

Some basic starter tips can be found here , with a focus on How to Set Up a Reef Aquarium .

First, begin with an aquarium, preferably 30 gallons or larger, as water parameters (salinity, pH, etc) are easier to manage in larger tanks, Aquariums typically require a stand and possibly a canopy. Set up the proper water pump(s) and plumbing. different types of tanks require different water currents; a species-specific aquarium like a seahorse tank requires a low flow, while a fish-only tank may require a high flow. Over time, you may require additional equipment such as protein skimmers, calcium reactors, or wave makers with additional pumps known as power heads. Next turn to lighting; a fish-only tank may only require standard high-output fluorescents, but a reef tank filled with corals will need metal halide lighting or compact fluorescents, depending on the size and depth of the tank. Some lighting systems incorporate metal halide fixtures, compact fluorescent actinic lighting (a blue hue preferred by corals), and low intensity lunar lighting for night viewing. Some include built-in timers to turn them off at night. Depending in the intensity of your lighting, you may require a chiller to cool the water. Otherwise, you may need a heater, to maintain the proper water temperature.

Second, add a bit of saltwater, either premixed from your local aquarium store or prepared from a salt mix. You’ll need a hydrometer to manage the proper salinity. This is a good time to check your plumbing; hoses, bulkheads, and fitting for leaks.

Next, you may want to add a substrate such as live sand, which is teeming with beneficial bacteria that breaks down nitrogen-based waste made by marine life, or a pre-bagged commercial blend such as Arag-Alive. Reef tanks and some fish-only tanks will benefit from the addition of liverock , chunks of rock covered in sponges that are not only attractive, but beneficial as well. Liverock provides a natural food source for some fish, aid in the breakdown of waste produced by aquarium inhabitants, and create a foundation for live corals or decorations in a fish-only aquarium. Liverock and live sand help to “cycle” the ammonia and pH in an aquarium, a crucial stage before adding livestock. Liverock will experience some die-off during harvesting and shipping. One may purchase “uncured” liverock, which will need to cure in an aquarium for several weeks before fish are added, or “pre-cured” liverock which has already undergone this step. Uncured liverock typically has more diversity in sponges and other marine life. Curing liverock will require the use of a protein skimmer and frequent water changes, typically 20% of the content of the aquarium.

Finish filling the tank with saltwater and fire up the pumps, lighting, power heads, heater/chiller, and other equipment. Enjoy your aquarium for a few weeks just as it is, watching the liverock as it changes. You may notice a bloom of brown algae, as the tank "cycles". Otherwise, take a water sample to your local fish store once a week, so they may determine when the tank has cycled.

To keep a reef tank clean, many aquarists include the addition of "clean-up critters" , marine life which feeds on algae, detritus, and other less desirable aspects within the tank. Tank cleaners can include hermit crabs, snails, certain sea stars, shrimp, abalone, and more. After waiting for the tank to cycle, waiting for the liverock to cure, one also waits a bit, after adding the clean-up crew. Reef tanks require a phenomenal amount of patience.

At long last, it is time to add fish, corals, and whatever else you want to put in your tank, assuming you have checked the compatibility of species and do not overcrowd your aquarium. This is where it gets a bit frustrating. Some fish cannot be put in reef tanks, as they will eat other occupants, corals, or both. Some fish are territorial and cannot be kept with others of their own kind; angelfish, tangs, butterfly fish, and the like are often like this. Some fish require a specialized species tank. Seahorses, for example, are slow eaters and cannot be kept with more aggressive fish.

It may be best to set up several aquariums, just to be safe. ;)

[Zolkabro]

Does anyone else keep saltwater aquariums? If you are running an undersea adventure, I highly recommend it, as it can be an endless source of inspiration.

Some basic starter tips can be found here , with a focus on How to Set Up a Reef Aquarium .

First, begin with an aquarium, preferably 30 gallons or larger, as water parameters (salinity, pH, etc) are easier to manage in larger tanks, Aquariums typically require a stand and possibly a canopy. Set up the proper water pump(s) and plumbing. different types of tanks require different water currents; a species-specific aquarium like a seahorse tank requires a low flow, while a fish-only tank may require a high flow. Over time, you may require additional equipment such as protein skimmers, calcium reactors, or wave makers with additional pumps known as power heads. Next turn to lighting; a fish-only tank may only require standard high-output fluorescents, but a reef tank filled with corals will need metal halide lighting or compact fluorescents, depending on the size and depth of the tank. Some lighting systems incorporate metal halide fixtures, compact fluorescent actinic lighting (a blue hue preferred by corals), and low intensity lunar lighting for night viewing. Some include built-in timers to turn them off at night. Depending in the intensity of your lighting, you may require a chiller to cool the water. Otherwise, you may need a heater, to maintain the proper water temperature.

Second, add a bit of saltwater, either premixed from your local aquarium store or prepared from a salt mix. You’ll need a hydrometer to manage the proper salinity. This is a good time to check your plumbing; hoses, bulkheads, and fitting for leaks.

Next, you may want to add a substrate such as live sand, which is teeming with beneficial bacteria that breaks down nitrogen-based waste made by marine life, or a pre-bagged commercial blend such as Arag-Alive. Reef tanks and some fish-only tanks will benefit from the addition of liverock , chunks of rock covered in sponges that are not only attractive, but beneficial as well. Liverock provides a natural food source for some fish, aid in the breakdown of waste produced by aquarium inhabitants, and create a foundation for live corals or decorations in a fish-only aquarium. Liverock and live sand help to “cycle” the ammonia and pH in an aquarium, a crucial stage before adding livestock. Liverock will experience some die-off during harvesting and shipping. One may purchase “uncured” liverock, which will need to cure in an aquarium for several weeks before fish are added, or “pre-cured” liverock which has already undergone this step. Uncured liverock typically has more diversity in sponges and other marine life. Curing liverock will require the use of a protein skimmer and frequent water changes, typically 20% of the content of the aquarium.

Finish filling the tank with saltwater and fire up the pumps, lighting, power heads, heater/chiller, and other equipment. Enjoy your aquarium for a few weeks just as it is, watching the liverock as it changes. You may notice a bloom of brown algae, as the tank "cycles". Otherwise, take a water sample to your local fish store once a week, so they may determine when the tank has cycled.

To keep a reef tank clean, many aquarists include the addition of "clean-up critters" , marine life which feeds on algae, detritus, and other less desirable aspects within the tank. Tank cleaners can include hermit crabs, snails, certain sea stars, shrimp, abalone, and more. After waiting for the tank to cycle, waiting for the liverock to cure, one also waits a bit, after adding the clean-up crew. Reef tanks require a phenomenal amount of patience.

At long last, it is time to add fish, corals, and whatever else you want to put in your tank, assuming you have checked the compatibility of species and do not overcrowd your aquarium. This is where it gets a bit frustrating. Some fish cannot be put in reef tanks, as they will eat other occupants, corals, or both. Some fish are territorial and cannot be kept with others of their own kind; angelfish, tangs, butterfly fish, and the like are often like this. Some fish require a specialized species tank. Seahorses, for example, are slow eaters and cannot be kept with more aggressive fish.

It may be best to set up several aquariums, just to be safe. ;)

I really appreciate all the effort you have put into that post to help me set up an aquarium, but I just don't have the space. It sounds really interesting to watch these fishes grow and live, but there is absolutely no space in my house.

I will go and look at some public aquariums soon, probably at the weekend, for inspiration.

Sorry.
I feel all guilty now, you put so much work into that post.

On an unrelated note, I now have a copy of Stormwrack!!!

[Debihuman]

On an unrelated note, I now have a copy of Stormwrack!!!

I think it is an invaluable resource. I am also fond of 3rd party books as well. Admittedly, I'm such a geek that I have a whole file on my hard drive dedicated to an aquatic campaign.

Debby

[Aeolius]

Admittedly, I'm such a geek that I have a whole file on my hard drive dedicated to an aquatic campaign.

So, when do we start? ;)