GITP Monster Competition Chat Thread III

[Debihuman]

I've got a poem but I have no idea how to do 3.5 Epic Templates. Since I've only been working 4E and played some 3E.

What do I do?

RTFM. Seriously read the books -- learn the rules. You can get a good idea from the online SRD but it doesn't have everything. I recommend that you wait until you have at least a fair knowledge of how the rules work. The rules for Monster creation are all over the place. New rules supersede older ones so you need to check the FAQ and Errata for changes unless you have the Rules Compendium.

You can ask for help here but I can't guarantee I have enough time to give much advice. I'll be leaving on vacation on Friday so you won't see much of me for 4 or 5 days.

Debby

[Bhu]

Can I do an Epic Monster Template? People have assumed there is one forever now.

[Glimbur]

Knock yourself out. That's a really broad concept though, I'd be interested to see how you handle it. Remember that you also need a story to go with it, but you could tell almost any story with a scary monster in it and have it count if I understand you correctly, so...

[FlyingWhale]

I decided to enter this one with a joke/serious entry... It is a serious template but it will be set on something silly Hope you guys enjoy it! I'll post by tomorrow afternoon. Adios!

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Ok, finally getting time to look through everything.

Btw, Hyzooz, your sig could do with an update

Can I do an Epic Monster Template? People have assumed there is one forever now.

Eh?

[BisectedBrioche]

I think he means a template which is specifically designed to make an existing creature an epic version of that creature.

[FlyingWhale]

After like, 3 different tries at making a new template, I give up. I now officially hate epic levels. Before, I disliked it, now? I hate it.

At least it's just once eh? On to next month

[Hyooz]

Btw, Hyzooz, your sig could do with an update

Hoy paloy you're right. Just got so used to seeing it I didn't even think about it >.>

[Bhu]

I think he means a template which is specifically designed to make an existing creature an epic version of that creature.

yup
thats it

[DracoDei]

I am not far enough along with my thinking to post an entry complete enough for the main thread, but if I don't start writing things down I am never going to get there, and my location in meat-space may be subject to sudden changes this month. For this reason I am going to do my preliminary work here. If people object (enough of my peer posters, or Vorpal Tribble, or any mod in an official capacity) I will find some place else to put this and delete this post after that.

PEACH welcome on whatever parts I have actually typed up at any given time...

Fractal

- Origins, descriptions and general fluff of the template -

Spoiler

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Fractal bears were created when two overly-daring magicians decided to collaborate on their work. The first, Megur the Canny, was a bender of space and time, an expert in geometries both strange and mundane. The other was Fitzsimons Rangi, a shaper of creatures. The first project they attempted was an experiment to impose Order on a small part of the Far Realms. Megur went there and cast the spell, while Fitzsimons stayed behind to rescue him if anything went wrong. Megur's life-line to Fitzsimons was a telepathic linking spell capable of working across planes. The Order-imposing spell reacted badly with the nature of the plane and fractured Megur into an infinite number of copies, while retaining his original total size between them and temporarily created a similar structure in the fabric of space around him. Fitzsimons broke the link, but not before the link broke him. Megurs' (sic) fate(s) are unknown. Fitzsimons created the fractal bears shortly afterward. Unusually for such cases, none of them escaped. In fact, Fitzsimons' son, Ignatz persuaded him to retire to an insane asylum shortly after a stable breeding population of fractal bears were created, in part by praising them as the crowing work of Fitzsimons, after which, anything less could only be a disappointment. Unfortunately Fitzsimons took this TOO much to heart, and insisted on running a lucrative business from his padded room via various proxies. Those he sold the fractal bears to as visual amusements did not prove so dutiful in their attempts to contain the beasts, and now several locations throughout the world have infestations.

Creating A Fractal Creature
“Fractal” is an inherited (or, rarely, acquired) template that can be added to any creature of at least Diminutive size with a consistent external shape (referred to hereafter as the “base creature”). A fractal creature uses all the base creature’s statistics and special abilities except as noted here.

Sample Fractal Creatures

Fractal Ancient ??? Dragon <Augmented Dragon, ???>

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Hit Dice:
Initiative:
Speed: (# squares)
Armor Class: (), touch, flat-footed
Base Attack/Grapple:
Attack:
Full Attack:
Space/Reach:
Special Attacks: Multiple Breathweapons,
Special Qualities:
Saves: Fort +, Ref +, Will +
Abilities: Str , Dex , Con , Int , Wis , Cha
Skills:
Feats:
Environment:
Organization:
Challenge Rating:
Treasure:
Alignment:
Advancement:
Level Adjustment:

Description/background/characteristics

Combat

Ability descriptions

Int. Mod divided by HD for Chromatic Dragons

Fractal Xill
Medium Aberration(Augmented Outsider)>

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Hit Dice:
Initiative:
Speed: (# squares)
Armor Class: (), touch, flat-footed
Base Attack/Grapple:
Attack:
Full Attack:
Space/Reach:
Special Attacks:
Special Qualities:
Saves: Fort +, Ref +, Will +
Abilities: Str , Dex , Con , Int , Wis , Cha
Skills:
Feats:
Environment:
Organization:
Challenge Rating:
Treasure:
Alignment:
Advancement:
Level Adjustment:

Description/background/characteristics

Combat

Ability descriptions

Fractal 12 Headed Superior Awakened (see below) Cyrohydra
Huge Aberration(Augmented Magical Beast) Warrior 6

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Hit Dice:21d10+6d8+140
Initiative:
Speed: (# squares)
Armor Class: (), touch, flat-footed
Base Attack/Grapple:+27/
Attack: Bite Group +36 melee (248,832 points of damage, dealt as 248,832 separate attacks of 1d2-3 points of damage each for purposes of DR, some strength effects, and critical hits)
Full Attack: 12 Bite Groups +36 melee (248,832 points of damage, dealt as 248,832 separate attacks of 1d2-4 points of damage each for purposes of DR, some strength effects, and critical hits)
Space/Reach:
Special Attacks: Multiple Breathweapons,
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., fast healing 22, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +21(Epic progression for the 6 fighter levels, right?), Ref +, Will +14
Abilities: Str 29(23)/21(15)/13(7)/9(3)/5(0)/3(0)/3(0), Dex 13, Con 25, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 12
Skills:
Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat ReflexesB, Epic Will, Improved Natural Attack (bite), Iron Will, Toughness, Weapon Focus (bite), (2 non-epic free picks and 1 more Epic constrained pick to go)
Environment:
Organization:
Challenge Rating:
Treasure: Gauntlets of Strength +6, Belt of Magic Fang, Greater, Adamintine Full-Plate +1
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Advancement: By Class
Level Adjustment: +A LOT

Description/background/characteristics

Combat

Ability descriptions

Size and Type: Size is unchanged. If not already an abberation then type changes to Aberration and gains the Augmented subtype for its previous type. Reach changes to that for a Tall creature of its size, unless it is already greater.
Hit Dice: Racial hit-dice increase to d8's if originally d6, otherwise unchanged. Do not re-roll previous hit-points unless at least 1 hit-die changes size. After this operation, increase racial hit-dice by 50%. These hit-dice grant hit-points, with constitution bonus, and skill-points as usual, however they have unusual effects on saves, special abilities whose effects are derived from HD, and feats. See appropriate sections below.
Attack: (See Nom-Nom-Nom and Diminishing Attacks below.)
Special Attacks: A fractal creature retains all of its normal special attacks and gains the following:
- Nom-Nom-Nom(Ex): When a fractal creature deals damage with a successful grapple check that is made with all of its limbs it deals damage as if it had hit will all of its natural weapons, instead of the normal amount of grappling damage.

Special Qualities: A fractal creature retains all of its normal special qualities and gains the following:
-Diminishing Attacks (Ex): Each attack uses its full strength bonus for to-hit and damage, however that strength is reduced for the smaller mouths (see the "abilities" section for details). For damage purposes the smaller mouths also use the damage dice of a smaller creature. Note that this causes strength bonuses and penalties to act a bit oddly.
All the attacks on a given sub-limb below a certain level (usually the secondary level) require the largest damage dealing portion on that sub-limb (such as a mouth, set of claws, hoof, etc) to hit to give themselves an opportunity, but given such an opportunity are certain to hit, with the largest damage dealing portion holding the victim still (or at least providing a near-perfect frame of reference to the fractal creature's Kinesthetic/proprioceptive sense)for the split second need to curl its limbs around and strike with the smaller mouths associated with it. Thus only one attack roll is used. For purposes of damage reduction and strength effects however, these are a large number* separate attacks, each dealing its own allotment of damage.
Note that this means that DR of that is not overcome by the fractal creature can completely negate the need to roll certain of the dice(except in the case of stone skin or similar spells and effects).
*up to 12^6=2,985,984 for the Fractal 12 Headed Superior Awakened (see below) Cyrohydra I provided as an example and similiar 12 headed hydra based creatures.

-Hybrid Vigor (Ex): For their racial hit-dice, fractal creatures use good fortitude and will saves regardless of base creature type. The former is due to their multiple vital organs grant them superior resilience, and the latter is due to their aberration nature combined with the difficulty of affecting their multiple brains. A fractal creature use the same reflex save progression for its racial hit-dice as the base creature.

-Specialized Uncanny Dodge (Ex): A fractal creature that gains heads as a result of this template retains its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed BUT NOT IF STRUCK BY AN INVISIBLE ATTACKER. Also, it still loses its dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A fractal bear can not be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the fractal bear by flanking it, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has hit-dice.

- Optional -
Vorpal Weapons, Hydras etc:
On a successful head-removing attack against a fractal creature, roll on the following chart to determine which head(s) are removed. This deals no damage, but does remove the associated bite attacks from the attack routine. Reduce their attacks (if it was a primary or secondary head) and damage accordingly. Fractal creatures can not regrow lost heads without the aid of magic unless the base creature could regrow heads or other limbs.
{TABLE=head]d% Result|Head Type removed
01-37|1d3 Sexternary
38-69|Sexternary
70-85|Quinternary
86-93|Quaternary
94-97|Tertiary
98-99|Secondary
100|Primary[/Table]

Saves: A fractal creature's fortitude and will saves are always Good for racial hit-dice. (See Hybrid Vigor above).

Abilities: A fractal creature gains a special modification to strength (see below), and gains +4 Con (due to redundant anatomy) a creature that gains heads due to this template also gains +2 Wis and +2 Charisma.
The main-level attacks of a fractal creature use its full strength score, At each level reduce the effective strength as if the fractal creature were one size category smaller. for MECHANICAL purposes stop the division at the at Fine size or at the interation before the effective strength would be reduced to 0 or less). Note that increases and decrements to primary-level strength may alter this. A table is provided below for your convenience.
{TABLE=head]Overall size|Strength
Diminutive|Full/Full
Tiny|Full/Full-2/Full-2
Small|Full/Full-4/Full-6/Full-6
Medium|Full/Full-4/Full-8/Full-10/Full-10
Large|Full/Full-8/Full-12/Full-16/Full-18/Full-18
Huge|Full/Full-8/Full-16/Full-20/Full-24/Full-26/Full-26
Gigantic|Full/Full-8/Full-16/Full-24/Full-28/Full-32/Full-34/Full-34
Colossal|Full/Full-8/Full-16/Full-24/Full-32/Full-36/Full-40/Full-42/Full-42
[/Table]
Thus, for example the strength score for a large creature with a 27 base strength would be 27/19/15/11/9/9.

Feats/Epic Feats: If the base creaturegains natural attacks with the addition of this template then the resulting fractal creature gains the Multi-attack and Improved Multi-attack feats as bonus feats. If the base creature is proficient with at least one manufactured weapon and gains manipulatory appendages with the addition of this template then it gains the Multi-weapon Fighting and Improved Multi-weapon fighting feats as bonus feats.
Any feats(including Epic Feats) gained from bonus racial hitdice must come from the following pool unless the creature has already taken all feats on the list it qualifies for:
Alertness, Endurance, Epic Fortitude, Epic Will, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Improved Toughness

Epic Feats: (See Above)

Environment: As per base creature plus The Far Realms

Challenge Rating: (Should vary based on number of attacks gained, and multi-casting abilities gained).

Alignment: Chaotic creatures and creatures with intelligence of 3 or less (including mindless creatures) do not change alignment as a result of acquiring this template . Other creatures' alignments are either unchanged, or move one step towards chaotic at the option of the GM (or player in the case of a PC).
Advancement: ((Based on exponent base... IE dragons get less added attacks than a hydra. Also factor in regarding multi-casting.))
Level Adjustment: ((Based on exponent base... IE dragons get less added attacks than a hydra. Also factor in regarding multi-casting.))

[Peregrine]

Well, it's my first competition entry in a looong time, and the first time I've really dabbled in epic at all... but here goes. The Adamantine Beast template is up now. Mechanics all more or less present, fluff to follow.

All feedback (good, bad and ugly) is appreciated.

[Debihuman]

Just a note on my looking at this month's entries.

Chose of Juiblex Kraken becomes an Ooze and gains the Augmented subtype in the statblock but you didn't put it in the Template.

I admit I don't quite get all the changes that Omni gets. Why isn't the creature called Medium Omnipotent Humanoid (Human)? If it is human, it should be listed with 2 feats not just one. If it isn't Human, you need to explain what the base creature was.

Your sample creature doesn't even follow the rules of the template. It is missing Climb, Burrow and Fly speeds (and maneuverability). CR is +25 and you have it at only +20 (should be +25 at least). If it knows everything why doesn't it have any Knowledge skills? 3+HD plus modifiers. I'm sure there is more that's missing but that's it for now. I recommend you go through the template line by line and make sure you've applied the various changes correctly. Since it can choose it's Str & Dex the sample creature should probably have base numbers to start with. It can choose to have more but it doesn't have to and the statblock should reflect only changes that the Template specifically adds.

Peregrine, Animals and Constructs generally don't amass treasure. None is perfectly fine to put in the treasure line. I recommend using VT's CR estimator for figuring out the CR. VT perhaps you can help with this one.

Also, magical weapons cannot have an enhancement bonus greater than +5.

Magic weapons have enhancement bonuses ranging from +1 to +5. They apply these bonuses to both attack and damage rolls when used in combat. All magic weapons are also masterwork weapons, but their masterwork bonus on attack rolls does not stack with their enhancement bonus on attack rolls.

Okay, I'm done with the critiquing. Please can we not have any more epic stuff. My brain hurts.

FYI, I'd make a motion for a contest based on aquatic theme on next month's monsters (tying into a couple of threads I'm on) if that were allow.

Vacation starts for me tomorrow so I won't be available to do any more critiquing.

Also, I realize I'm being a bit abrupt here and curt with my answers and I honestly am not trying to be harsh. Most mistakes are easy corrections. VT can you please (pretty please) go over some the statblocks and offer some advice.

Debby

[Glimbur]

To my eye, the Adamantine Beast lacks... focus. It can get a breath weapon, or an Epic weapon, or an alternate form, or flight, or displacement, or... none of these things seem adamantine to me.

I would give bonus hit dice, DR lots/adamantine or lots/-, increase damage on natural attacks, throw on a slam attack, add lots of natural armor, and call it a day. Ability bonuses are whatever seems good, and it is helpful that you included a list of recommended feats. The increase to Int seems strange, and you aren't following the normal rules for skills because you state exactly how many skill points the HD grant instead of it being determined by them being Construct hit dice plus its intelligence score. I would stick with either animal intelligence or make them mindless. Then you would need to include a list of common reactions they have to things: do they attack anything that moves, defend an area, pretend to be a normal creature of the type the base creature is, or something even weirder.

[MythMage]

Also, magical weapons cannot have an enhancement bonus greater than +5.

Actually, they can. You need a minimum +6 to penetrate /epic damage reduction. The core rules just don't cover epic bonuses because those require a goofy price hike which isn't covered outside the epic rules. See the epic SRD for details.

[Debihuman]

Actually, they can. You need a minimum +6 to penetrate /epic damage reduction. The core rules just don't cover epic bonuses because those require a goofy price hike which isn't covered outside the epic rules. See the epic SRD for details.

Darn it. I hate it when rules don't cross reference. THIS is why I loath critiquing epic creatures, too many things that can be missed. [Pardon me while I bang my head against the desk for a while].

Okay, I'm better now.

A few more things: The adamantine lion should have a flight speed of 50 ft. not 80 ft. per the template unless there was something there that added 30 more feet.

It also seems to have more than the 3 from its choices of special abilities and attacks. It has alternate form, epic weapon, flight and unearthly speed. According to the template it should only have 3 of those things. A lion can't really wield a weapon so it needs to have alternate form. Therefore, it needs to lose either unearthly speed or or flight. I recommend for it losing unearthly speed since it has the Epic Speed feat.That was easy!

Now, I'm handing the critiquing off to the rest of you fine folks as starting today, I'm on vacation!

Debby

[Peregrine]

First, thanks for the feedback. Second, epic fail (ha ha ha) on my part: alternate form is not one of the optional special qualities; all adamantine beasts should have it. I really need to clarify that Special Qualities section.

To my eye, the Adamantine Beast lacks... focus. It can get a breath weapon, or an Epic weapon, or an alternate form, or flight, or displacement, or... none of these things seem adamantine to me.

Hopefully the fluff will clear things up a bit. I don't want its flavour to be "it's a big adamantine construct"; the adamantine golem has that category pretty well sewn up. (I'm also trying to avoid turning it into Beast Wars, but that's kind of the direction it's headed!)

I would give bonus hit dice, DR lots/adamantine or lots/-, increase damage on natural attacks, throw on a slam attack, add lots of natural armor, and call it a day.

Check, check, check, check (kind of) and check. Do you mean "leave it at that" or "do more of these"?

The increase to Int seems strange...

I don't want them to be mindless or even animal intelligence. Again, hopefully the fluff will better support my decision here.

...and you aren't following the normal rules for skills because you state exactly how many skill points the HD grant instead of it being determined by them being Construct hit dice plus its intelligence score.

Actually, feel free to check my maths on this, but I have stuck to the normal rules. I've just done the calculations for you, in the hopes of making the template easier to apply. This may have backfired; I worry that the explanation may be too complex.

The idea is, all animals have 2+Int mod skill points per level... and they all have Int 1 or 2, which is Int mod -5 or -4, which means all animals really only get 1 skill point per level. In fact, they'd have to get their Int all the way to 10 to ever have more skill points.

The Int boost of the template isn't enough to do this, and construct HD also give only 2+Int mod skill points. So all adamantine beasts will still only have one skill point per HD, and since they all have 24 bonus HD, that's exactly 24 skill points more than the base creature... unless you apply some of those six ability score boosts to Int.

That's the kind of calculation I was trying to take off the reader's mind.

Darn it. I hate it when rules don't cross reference. THIS is why I loath critiquing epic creatures, too many things that can be missed. [Pardon me while I bang my head against the desk for a while].

Epic's a bit like that, isn't it? Not normally my thing, and if this competition has taught me nothing else, it's that I'll be aiming to end the campaign I'm currently running at 20th level, no higher!

A few more things: The adamantine lion should have a flight speed of 50 ft. not 80 ft. per the template unless there was something there that added 30 more feet.

Yes, the Epic Speed feat.

It also seems to have more than the 3 from its choices of special abilities and attacks. It has alternate form, epic weapon, flight and unearthly speed. According to the template it should only have 3 of those things.

Yeah, alternate form isn't meant to be optional. (Unearthly speed and Epic Speed are meant to complement each other in this case, which is why it has both.)

Thanks for the critiques, both of you!

[Darwin]

There, just finished my first submission to a homebrew contest ever. Would someone be kind enough to give it a read and let me know of the spelling errors and mistakes i haven't found myself? Feedback is also very, very welcome.

[Debihuman]

Darwin: Your cat would have CR 20 (you round down after full numbers).

While I applaud your efforts, I have a feeling that the Template is underpowered because it doesn't grant additional HD or even hit points. Furthermore, it is a little too similar to the Paragon Creature Template for comfort for me. See here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monst...onCreature.htm

Yes, your cat is powerful, but it's dead very quickly because you don't have to kill it outright. You only have to knock it unconscious and then coup de grace it or suffocate it. It only takes 5 points of damage to knock it out. Hard to do but at level 20, not impossible.

Of course, doing this 9 times makes for a long battle and significantly reduces a parties resources for no gain and probably not much fun either. There's nothing to be gained from this encounter other than the party wasting their resources and time. Granted, these creatures are fun to make but under no circumstances would I recommend this template for use in game.

The worse example of this is my own creation. Fluffy the Doomkitty, a Paragon Cat of Legend here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...ostcount=97%22. Note that Fluffy is CR 17 but he can easily take your cat. Whiskers won't even hurt Fluffy with a bite or claw.

As you can see, I'm not a fan of any of these sort of templates as they tend to be too unbalancing at least when the base animal is only a cat.

Debby

[Darwin]

Darwin: Your cat would have CR 20 (you round down after full numbers).

Thank you, I'll fix it in a sec

While I applaud your efforts, I have a feeling that the Template is underpowered because it doesn't grant additional HD or even hit points. Furthermore, it is a little too similar to the Paragon Creature Template for comfort for me. See here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monst...onCreature.htm

I can in no way justify adding addition hp to a template where I've already given the creature 9 times it's own hp. While this might not be terrifying on a cat, it gets much, much worse as we progress up the CR ladder. Multiplication is a complicated thing in D&D. And I'm nearly willing to call it impossible to balance at all stages of the game.

Yes, your cat is powerful, but it's dead very quickly because you don't have to kill it outright. You only have to knock it unconscious and then coup de grace it or suffocate it. It only takes 5 points of damage to knock it out. Hard to do but at level 20, not impossible.

It is supposed to be hard, not impossible. This is a good thing

Of course, doing this 9 times makes for a long battle and significantly reduces a parties resources for no gain and probably not much fun either. There's nothing to be gained from this encounter other than the party wasting their resources and time. Granted, these creatures are fun to make but under no circumstances would I recommend this template for use in game.

No gain? Gain is a relative term and is controlled by the DM. If the DM decides to place Whiskers in front of a huge pile of treasure then there'd be just as much gain from it as fighting the Tarrasque or a great gold wyrm. If Whiskers can expend resources from the party, then he's doing exactly what he's supposed to as a monster.

The worse example of this is my own creation. Fluffy the Doomkitty, a Paragon Cat of Legend here: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...ostcount=97%22. Note that Fluffy is CR 17 but he can easily take your cat. Whiskers won't even hurt Fluffy with a bite or claw.

Thank god they aren't designed to fight each other then .

As you can see, I'm not a fan of any of these sort of templates as they tend to be too unbalancing at least when the base animal is only a cat.

Templates by nature are horribly unbalanced once they go past +1 or +2. Doing a +20 template is silly and I have a hard time imagining it seeing real play. I took this as an opportunity to create something fun rather than focusing on balance since it would be wasted effort anyway. Seeing how parties have such a wide gap in power level, from truenamer to the batman wizard how is one ever supposed to balance a monster against all of them?

Thanks for the input though. It put a few things in perspective, and it's always fun to have a good argument

[Bhu]

I really wanted to give this a shot, but with all the squabling going on between my doctors, I'm going to bow out this time. I may need to focus on other things, and I'm too shot to really concentrate.

[BisectedBrioche]

Unless I can drum something up tommorow it looks like I'll being missing this one as well. Oh well.

[Debihuman]

No gain? Gain is a relative term and is controlled by the DM. If the DM decides to place Whiskers in front of a huge pile of treasure then there'd be just as much gain from it as fighting the Tarrasque or a great gold wyrm. If Whiskers can expend resources from the party, then he's doing exactly what he's supposed to as a monster.

Generally, killing monsters isn't the only goal in an encounter nor is taking a pile of gold. Unfortunately, whiskers has no way to impart any information to the party. Dragons can talk. The Tarrasque gives the party a chance to save a world generally but Whiskers isn't a world-threatening monster. It's just a cat with a brutal attack. Yes, the DM controls what gain is available to party but Whiskers is quite limited in that respect. It's only real use is a TPK. It has no treasure, it has no wisdom to impart, it's death won't won't have an effect on anyone other than the combatants.

Actually I mis-wrote earlier. At CR 20, Whiskers is EASILY defeated.
In a a party with one wizard, it takes 4 magic missile spells, 4 finger of death spells and 2 power word kill spells to kill Whiskers. A CR 18 wizard can do this on his own as none of those spells require a saving throw. If the magic missiles don't outright kill Whiskers, it will definitely leave him unconscious.

Since you only have to do 5 points of damage to Whiskers, a 7th level wizard could cast magic missile (4 missiles each doing 1d4+1 for a minimum of 8 points of damage).

You didn't mention whether this was possible or not so I'm tossing this out now as a possibility. Is it possible to cast reincarnate on Whiskers after he is dead but before he comes back to life? It's a timing issue more than anything else. Obviously, the party would have to have some idea of what to do (this is where lore checks are really nice). It's a kinda cheesy way around the template as you can see. DC for a timing check wouldn't be out of line but the DC is 10 [10 +1/2 Whisker's HD + Whisker's Con modifier and I'm using Con because it's the most relevant stat]. Even adding +2 for stress to make it a DC 12 is still an easy check for a 20th level party member.

If reincarnation isn't an option, the players could simply attack with weapons -- the cat's AC is 39 so beating that is the next thing to tackle.

Actually I may have been wrong about the difficulty of a fighter at 20th level versus Whiskers. It depends on the feats taken [anything that adds a bonus to attack is useful] spells used [haste, invisibility] and Strength bonus and whether or not a weapon has an attack bonus too. A tanked out fighter could easily beat whiskers in a fight.

Shouldn't Whiskers have both Mettle and Improved Mettle? Ditto for Evasion and Improved Evasion. Since Evasion and Improved Evasion only work on attacks that deal half damage it's not going to be a factor against a weapon hit. Aren't there several version of Mettle? You should cite to which one you are using. [Complete Warrior see page X for example].

Debby

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Sorry all for the delay and lack of much talk during this contest, but the Voting thread for Beings of Legend IV is open. Good luck!

[DracoDei]

Well, I am sorry I wasn't able to finish my entry, but I have something that very vaguely resembles a job now and was hoping to repair a washing machine. I don't get paid, and I only come in when I feel like it, but I am trusted not to screw up around dangerous and expensive machinery, and he is a very skilled jeweler (as in they actually make their own stuff using CAD/CAM for sculpting the wax instead of buying from a mass manufacturer).

Besides which, I am not sure the world is ready for multi-million headed hydras.


P.S. The formatting problem for the normal contest example is mostly that you used the minimum number of Bold etc tags, rather than one for each line (or sometimes more) that you have to use to get the formatting actually right when creating a creature... I have a fixed blank creature on each of my hard disks, I suspect any of the regulars could slog through (or write from scratch) it if I had to... just might turn off first-timers.

[BisectedBrioche]

Having to do resits over the summer hampered my ability to sort out an entry. It would probably have been far too complicated to use in the end (basically the idea was a liche would kidnap some poor level 20+ PC and mutate them with a curse or artifact of some sort into a NE monster with variable effects based on their abilities, alignment, etc in order to use them as a champion in a sort of gladatorial arena against the champions of a devil and a demon).

I'm not joking about the complicated part. I was going to have to draw a frikken' flow diagram to work out the various permutatons.

[Debihuman]

Bisected -- I could KISS you for not posting a complicated epic template. I quit on epic as of now. It's just way too much work.

Debby

[Peregrine]

I quit on epic as of now.

Me too.

...

...

Except for one more thing. The terror of all 20-level commoners.

Adamantine Kitty
Size/Type: Tiny Construct
Hit Dice: 25d10 (137 hp)
Initiative: +13
Speed: 60 ft. (12 squares)
Armor Class: 47 (+2 size, +5 Dex, +30 natural), touch 17, flat-footed 42
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+15
Attack: Claw +25 melee (1d4+5)
Full Attack: 2 claws +25 melee (1d4+5) and bite +25 melee (1d8+2/19-20)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Breath weapon
Special Qualities: Alternate form, concealed nature, construct traits, darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +13, Will +9
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 21, Con --, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 11
Skills: Balance +11, Climb +7, Hide +18, Jump +11, Listen +4, Move Silently +12, Spot +4
Feats: Improved Critical (bite), Improved Initiative, Improved Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack (bite), Multiattack, Run, Stealthy
Epic Feats: Dire Charge, Epic Speed, Superior Initiative
Environment: Your house
Organisation: Solitary, household (1 adamantine kitty and 1d6 human slaves) or cabal (2-3 adamantine kitties and 2d6+1 human slaves)
Challenge Rating: 20

Breath weapon (Su): An adamantine kitty has two breath weapons, a 15-ft. cone of exhaustion (Fort DC 22 to reduce condition to fatigued) and a 30-ft. line of adamantine shards (10d8 damage, Ref DC 22 for half damage, Fort DC 22 or blinded permanently).

[Debihuman]

Your adamantine cat has one epic feat too many.

Organization should be like that of a normal cat. A group of cats is called a "clowder."

What alternate form does the cat take?

Debby

[Peregrine]

Your adamantine cat has one epic feat too many.

*blink* Oops. How did that happen?

Organization should be like that of a normal cat.

Isn't it?

What alternate form does the cat take?

A bipedal figure (like all adamantine beasts), of Tiny size.

[Hyooz]

A group of cats is called a "clowder."

Debby

Huh. You learn something everyday.