LGBTitp - Part Seven

[Danne]

I feel strangely compelled to write out ASCII penises now.

Serious question, though. Easy answer to "You're straight, right?" when a 'no' will cause people to assume that I'm gay, and I, in fact, just like people and don't particularly care what gender or sex they happen to be?

Just say so? "Nope, I'm bisexual.* I just like people in general, I don't really care what gender or sex the happen to be" should work just fine.

In other news, I was at a con all weekend. Lots of crossdressing cosplayers. Also at least one individual who wasn't cosplaying at all, but just enjoying an atmosphere where s/he** could where whatever s/he wanted without people turning up their noses. Nice to have such a friendly atmosphere.

*or whatever you identify as, though bi is probably easiest since you won't need to explain it
**I did not ask which gender the person identified as

[Pinnacle]

That surprises me. Are they all just too shy or something?

Well, to be fair, jumping over another person can be difficult--assuming she isn't very short.

[742]

Serious question, though. Easy answer to "You're straight, right?" when a 'no' will cause people to assume that I'm gay, and I, in fact, just like people and don't particularly care what gender or sex they happen to be?

"no, but not a lesbian either"
"what time is it? then no, sorry; try again tomorrow."
"for whom?"
"not right now."
"in your case? [y/n]" if you wish to be mean; it would also work as a rather strong whatsit too.

[Lix Lorn]

When I get asked if I'm gay I ask why they care, and eventually end up saying 'technically no' and refusing to be drawn. Their dogged persistence is amusing.

[Ashen Lilies]

I always preferred:
"You people and your quaint little categories."

[The Rose Dragon]

There is also my personal favorite: "Why does it matter?"

[albis]

I've taken a liking to just ask "What?" when people ask me if I'm gay/straight/bi/whatever...
sometimes even just "huh?" with a very confused look on my face. If I find the person asking particularly annoying then I answer "define 'straight', please..." and then start off a discussion about what is what and why, and never actually answer the question.
...I always have lots of fun.

[Drolyt]

I'm a bit confused here, I've never asked someone about their sexuality and neither has anyone asked me (presumably I've never done anything to make them think I'm anything but straight), but why wouldn't you just give a straight answer? I really really really hate it when I ask someone a simple question and they just mess with me. I get that some people can be annoying about it, but some are just curious, and I would think the easiest thing to do would be to give them a straight answer and then end the conversation at that.

[golentan]

I've taken a liking to just ask "What?" when people ask me if I'm gay/straight/bi/whatever...
sometimes even just "huh?" with a very confused look on my face. If I find the person asking particularly annoying then I answer "define 'straight', please..." and then start off a discussion about what is what and why, and never actually answer the question.
...I always have lots of fun.

Define Straight, huh?

I do like the Captain Jack quote, Kid Kris...

[Ostien]

I always preferred:
"You people and your quaint little categories."

Capt. Jack Harkness FTW!

If asked if I was "gay" I'd probably say "No, I don't identify as gay." If they pushed it, such as then saying "so you're straight?" or "so you like guys and girls," I'd just be vague/keep just saying "no" or just being non-committal (I mean it depends on which guys and which girls, it can include guys with vaginas and girls with penises and anything in between or untyped). If they flat out said bisexual I'd probably say "close enough for government work" or something flippant like that.

But now that it was mentioned ending on Jack's quote would be win. It's great because it can apply to both sexuality stuffs and gender stuffs!

[Lix Lorn]

Capt. Jack Harkness FTW!

Heartily seconded!

[blackfox]

That surprises me. Are they all just too shy or something?

Nope, they're all out of my league.

[Dogmantra]

Nope, they're all out of my league.

Out of the premiership, you mean. Or... is it the Coca Cola Championship? Hmm...

(Note to self: when making football analogies in future, actually have a working knowledge of football)

[Alindo]

Kilts? Those aren't for men. They are for manly men. And women.

I'd like to see more "manly men" in skirts though :)

[Maroon]

There is also my personal favorite: "Why does it matter?"

"What's it to you?"

"Who's asking?"

Or the perennial favorite, "Of course I--Why, what have you heard?"

Always answer a question with a question.

Also, John "Captain Jack" Barrowman has concluded the root of homosexuality is in the womb. Not intrinsically irrefutable evidence, of course, but he said it with a Scottish accent, which more than makes up for it.

[Danne]

I'm a bit confused here, I've never asked someone about their sexuality and neither has anyone asked me (presumably I've never done anything to make them think I'm anything but straight), but why wouldn't you just give a straight answer? I really really really hate it when I ask someone a simple question and they just mess with me. I get that some people can be annoying about it, but some are just curious, and I would think the easiest thing to do would be to give them a straight answer and then end the conversation at that.

It's actually a rather rude question, if you think about it, which is probably why you've never asked or been asked it. I would think it akin to asking someone's age, weight, religion, or other potentially touchy subjects. Depending on the person, it can be a really heavy, controversial topic. Some people might not mind being asked (just like I personally don't care if people ask my age, weight, or religion, either) but just like with those three (and others) some people might be offended or uncomfortable being asked that.

Also, unless you're* looking to date the person (in which case I can see an exception for the "it's rude" rule, as it's probably less rude/awkward than making advances only to find out you're not the person's "type") or are a really close friend to that person (in which case you probably either already know or respect his/her decision not to tell you) it's really none of your business. It's not like it effects you unless you were hoping they're available.

Plus, I imagine some people get asked a lot based on certain behaviors and mannerisms.** That's got to get old fast.

So yes, it's annoying to get a snide answer, but it's even more annoying to be asked in the first place.

*The general you, that is, not you personally, Drolyt.
**Because of stereotypes, not because said behaviors/mannerisms actually reflect LGBT-ness

[Drolyt]

It's actually a rather rude question, if you think about it, which is probably why you've never asked or been asked it. I would think it akin to asking someone's age, weight, religion, or other potentially touchy subjects. Depending on the person, it can be a really heavy, controversial topic. Some people might not mind being asked (just like I personally don't care if people ask my age, weight, or religion, either) but just like with those three (and others) some people might be offended or uncomfortable being asked that.

Also, unless you're* looking to date the person (in which case I can see an exception for the "it's rude" rule, as it's probably less rude/awkward than making advances only to find out you're not the person's "type") or are a really close friend to that person (in which case you probably either already know or respect his/her decision not to tell you) it's really none of your business. It's not like it effects you unless you were hoping they're available.

Plus, I imagine some people get asked a lot based on certain behaviors and mannerisms.** That's got to get old fast.

So yes, it's annoying to get a snide answer, but it's even more annoying to be asked in the first place.

*The general you, that is, not you personally, Drolyt.
**Because of stereotypes, not because said behaviors/mannerisms actually reflect LGBT-ness

Well, I guess I just didn't realize that, since I wouldn't care (I also wouldn't care if someone asked my age, weight or religion, except possibly weight, depending on how they ask).

[Serpentine]

Meh. I had a friend in college who was supposedly straight but all sorts of camp. I always wondered about his sexuality, so a couple of years later when I had a chance, I asked him: "What's your sexuality?". Bisexual, as it turns out. On the other hand, though, he had just hit on my boyfriend
All those "similarly offensive topics", I have asked and been asked without any offense at all. They, and this specific one, are all interesting things to know. As long as you're not asking about someone's sexuality so you know whether to treat them differently (unless, say, you're scoping out whether they're an applicable target for affection), I don't think it's the least bit unreasonable or insulting a question. As someone who hates it when people refuse to answer a direct question directly (housemate ), I too would be aggravated and potentially insulted if someone "seriously" used those snarky-nonanswers on me.

[Danne]

Well, like I said, it varies from person to person. I don't care if people know my sexuality (though I would raise an eyebrow if someone actually asked me -- not their business, honestly) but someone who is closeted or uncomfortable with being gay/bi/straight/whatever might. I don't care if someone asks my weight, either, but someone with body image issues probably would. *shrug* And there's a difference between asking someone you're friends with versus someone you don't know all that well, which is the impression I got from the original post on the topic. You shouldn't ask personal questions of someone you don't know that well.

Then again, I'm a very private person, so maybe that's just me.

[bluewind95]

*sigh* I'm kind of annoyed and frustrated and... I dunno.

I was discussing with a friend about the whole thing with asexual people pairing up with people of other sexualities. Said friend said that it's a sacrifice he'd be willing to make. I told him of my stance, which is, basically, that, well, it's not a fair sacrifice to make. Frankly, to me, I see it pretty much the same as a gay person and a straight person dating. There's just... no real point. And I don't think that sacrifices involving an integral part of a person are really acceptable for a relationship. Now, it's totally different if the asexual person doesn't feel attraction (or just has a very low attraction drive) but doesn't mind the sex. There's all kinds, yeah? But anyways...

I went and asked my mom for her opinion. I mean, she's expressed her desire for me to be more sociable and talk more and whatnot. She... expressed her huge frustration with my identifying as asexual. Not only that, she said that asexuality was plain wrong, and it was nothing but circumstances... you know... "the right person just hasn't come along yet" or "just hormones all messed up" or "you're just repressing yourself"... so on. That basically, asexuality doesn't exist. Then, after I explained that, while physically, I feel nothing for any gender/sex, emotionally, I am straight, she proceeded to blame the internet and the computer, saying that since much of my social contact is online, well, that's why I'm asexual. Because of how much of what makes social contact is lost in online social contact. Huh? Even when I was working, or when I was in college or whatever... I never found ANYONE attractive. When I was very young, I thought I did, but thinking about it... I never felt *attraction*. I felt some kind of... novelty. Something akin to "This is different. I guess it's neat." kind of thing. I tried explaining it to her by asking her that if she, as a straight woman could still judge whether or not a woman was good looking/attractive. She said that yes, she could. But of course, she feels nothing for them. I explained to her that it's exactly how my mind works... but towards all sexes. She finally said that I was just weird and that my hormones were all messed up. Which they are, but that's not the point.

I... don't know. I mean... asexuality IS pretty rare... and some of the things she said ARE true (much of my social contact is online and my hormones are VERY messed up), but... does it really cause my asexuality? Is it some kind of illusion? Is it something that a doctor can just... make it go away, like some kind of illness? I dunno... I'm kind of confused now.

[Drolyt]

I doubt it is something a Doctor can just make go away. It's not an illusion regardless of the cause, and while I believe anything about you can be changed if you want, you shouldn't try to change yourself unless you really want to, as in you really think it would make you happier, not because someone else said you need to change. It is vaguely plausible that it is caused by a hormone imbalance which a Doctor could fix, but more likely it's just psychological and/or the way you were born. I guess my first question would be is do you think you are truly asexual, as in you would never even want to be in that kind of relationship, or you simply haven't found anyone you liked?

[Pyrian]

Hi Bluewind95. If you are congenitally asexual, it is unlikely that there is anything science can currently do about the condition. Despite considerable effort, even normal female arousal is very difficult to affect positively.

Are you on anti-depressants? There are several medications (mostly anti-depressants, but also, well, birth control) that can be startingly effective at suppressing sex drives.

[bluewind95]

I doubt it is something a Doctor can just make go away. It's not an illusion regardless of the cause, and while I believe anything about you can be changed if you want, you shouldn't try to change yourself unless you really want to, as in you really think it would make you happier, not because someone else said you need to change. It is vaguely plausible that it is caused by a hormone imbalance which a Doctor could fix, but more likely it's just psychological and/or the way you were born. I guess my first question would be is do you think you are truly asexual, as in you would never even want to be in that kind of relationship, or you simply haven't found anyone you liked?

I'm not sure that one could really change anything they chose about themselves. Otherwise, I'd be unable to feel emotion, and I would be genderless, and sexless.

I have never felt any desire to be in "that kind" of relationship. As in... a physical one. It's just never appealed to me. Funny thing is, the emotional side I don't dislike. It's just the physical side... and it's not as if I'm "OMG NO NO SEX FOR ME EVER, EWW!!". But more like... I just have no interest in it. And mind you, the emotional ties I have had, and still have. It's just... I mean... unless you're bisexual, take the sex you don't feel attraction to. I'm sure you still could tell whether or not they're attractive... just without feeling anything. That's kind of how it is for me. Emotionally, I do like people. But physically, I don't. I've tried... but it feels about as natural to me as being an octopus.

Hi Bluewind95. If you are congenitally asexual, it is unlikely that there is anything science can currently do about the condition. Despite considerable effort, even normal female arousal is very difficult to affect positively.

Are you on anti-depressants? There are several medications (mostly anti-depressants, but also, well, birth control) that can be startingly effective at suppressing sex drives.

Nope, no antidepressants or birth control here.

[Drolyt]

I'm not sure that one could really change anything they chose about themselves. Otherwise, I'd be unable to feel emotion, and I would be genderless, and sexless.

Ok, take a grain of salt with the anything part, but just remember that if you are ever truly unhappy you can change (I'm not necessarily talking about your asexuality here).

I have never felt any desire to be in "that kind" of relationship. As in... a physical one. It's just never appealed to me. Funny thing is, the emotional side I don't dislike. It's just the physical side... and it's not as if I'm "OMG NO NO SEX FOR ME EVER, EWW!!". But more like... I just have no interest in it. And mind you, the emotional ties I have had, and still have. It's just... I mean... unless you're bisexual, take the sex you don't feel attraction to. I'm sure you still could tell whether or not they're attractive... just without feeling anything. That's kind of how it is for me. Emotionally, I do like people. But physically, I don't. I've tried... but it feels about as natural to me as being an octopus.

Actually no, I can't tell whether someone of my gender is attractive, and I have to ask for help when I try to make myself look attractive. But don't worry about that. Just remember that it is okay to be yourself, and if you are happy with who you are you shouldn't let other people get you down just because they don't like it. People have a fear of what they don't understand, so even people who genuinely care about you might try to change you because they think it is for your own good, but that isn't up to them, you decide your own fate, do whatever makes you happy so long as no one else is hurt.

My only concern is that you do say that you are into the emotional aspect. Does that mean you want to have a romantic relationship? If so what happens when your significant other wants to get intimate? Do you just say no? That could lead to heartbreak, and in a way isn't exactly fair to them. It's also not fair to you to force you to do something you don't want, but I'm just saying it could be a problem, unless of course you could find another asexual.

[bluewind95]

Actually no, I can't tell whether someone of my gender is attractive, and I have to ask for help when I try to make myself look attractive. But don't worry about that. Just remember that it is okay to be yourself, and if you are happy with who you are you shouldn't let other people get you down just because they don't like it. People have a fear of what they don't understand, so even people who genuinely care about you might try to change you because they think it is for your own good, but that isn't up to them, you decide your own fate, do whatever makes you happy so long as no one else is hurt.

My only concern is that you do say that you are into the emotional aspect. Does that mean you want to have a romantic relationship? If so what happens when your significant other wants to get intimate? Do you just say no? That could lead to heartbreak, and in a way isn't exactly fair to them. It's also not fair to you to force you to do something you don't want, but I'm just saying it could be a problem, unless of course you could find another asexual.

Huh. Interesting. Other people I've asked say they can. But hey, no one is quite the same.

As for wanting or not to be in a relationship... part of me wants to. But the logical side of me already realized the problem you speak of. I'm not even entirely sure if there is really a difference between an asexual relationship and a friendship. So I've mostly quieted the desire for a relationship, and I've more focused on friendships.

A friend of mine, though, says that it's a sacrifice he'd be willing to make. But... like you said, it's not fair. I think there are certain things that should never be sacrificed, even in a relationship, and things like this... even more so. The same person said, though, that he thinks a good reason to *do* the sacrifice is to be with a person in a long-term commitment to help them fix their problems and to make them happy. This I do not think is a grand idea either. It's fine to help your SO, but... that... should that even be the *basis* for a relationship? I don't think so, honestly. And that is yet another reason I don't do dating. I have too many issues. Plus my asexuality. Those things together make me a very bad choice for a SO. It can't be a healthy relationship like that. And I'd need a really healthy one. While I'm asexual and have no real interest towards sex, I'm think I could, for certain people, deal with that somewhat, for the importance it would hold for said person. But for that to even be an option, the other person has to be not my therapist, but a true SO, as well as understanding of the fact that while I may indeed engage in intimacy, I won't be doing so out of my own drive, but as a compromise and they, in turn would need to be okay with the fact I can't feel attraction for them, nor will I be up to engaging in intimacy anywhere near as often as a straight person, and often will need a LOT of personal space. I'm not sure it's even a proper thing, that. All I know is that I certainly don't want someone to whom it will be a sacrifice!

I'm not sure if I explained myself properly there.

[Asta Kask]

I've tried... but it feels about as natural to me as being an octopus.

A psychic octopus?

If it's not you then it's not you.

[Coidzor]

I went and asked my mom for her opinion. I mean, she's expressed her desire for me to be more sociable and talk more and whatnot. She... expressed her huge frustration with my identifying as asexual.

Well, y'know, interacting with others is sorta... separate from wanting to have sex with them. We go sorta crazy without socialization.

And... :/ when you think about people from a genetic or evolutionary standpoint, most people's base reactions to asexual offspring will be frustration, especially if it's one's only child. Can't really expect any better of 'em, they're just people after all. Even worse for them, they're parents.

So you really can't let that part get you down.

I... don't know. I mean... asexuality IS pretty rare... and some of the things she said ARE true (much of my social contact is online and my hormones are VERY messed up), but... does it really cause my asexuality? Is it some kind of illusion? Is it something that a doctor can just... make it go away, like some kind of illness? I dunno... I'm kind of confused now.

Well, it's about as much of an illusion as life is in and of itself... So for your purposes, I'd say no. I mean, depending upon the nature of a hormonal imbalance, it could be the cause, but *shrug* I don't know enough about it and as far as I know, science hasn't really dealt with it very much at all. Or sexuality in general, really. Slow going there, lousy humans.

Are you actually bothered by this or just annoyed by people pressuing you to.... find someone to date?

A friend of mine, though, says that it's a sacrifice he'd be willing to make.

Well, there's the crux of it. That's him. That's his choice, his worldview. You ain't him, he ain't you. To you, you're not willing to cross that line. C'est la guerre and all that jazz.

[golentan]

As for wanting or not to be in a relationship... part of me wants to. But the logical side of me already realized the problem you speak of. I'm not even entirely sure if there is really a difference between an asexual relationship and a friendship. So I've mostly quieted the desire for a relationship, and I've more focused on friendships.

Oooh! Oooh! I know the difference! Pick me!

The difference between an asexual relationship and a friendship is a certain threshhold of emotional intimacy, as represented by your desire to spend time with them above and apart from normal social interactions, and in later phases by a commingling of your plans for the future.

I.E. a friend is someone you invite along to dinner for conversation, a significant other is someone who you have a conversation with with dinner as a backdrop. Or a friend is someone share interests with, a significant other is the primary interest in question, if you prefer.

If I may, it also seems you are falling into the common fallacy that romance is related to sexuality. I realize this is the done thing nowadays, but it's very, very wrong. Also, dating someone who is not attracted to my sex, so... yeah.

...

Come to think of it, my love life has only rarely included people who find me attractive in that way. Heh.

[Coidzor]

Also, dating someone who is not attracted to my sex, so... yeah.

...

Come to think of it, my love life has only rarely included people who find me attractive in that way. Heh.

Yeah, is quite tragic, what with her getting painted as abusive in how she reminds you of it and acts towards you.

But... like you said, it's not fair. I think there are certain things that should never be sacrificed, even in a relationship, and things like this... even more so. The same person said, though, that he thinks a good reason to *do* the sacrifice is to be with a person in a long-term commitment to help them fix their problems and to make them happy. This I do not think is a grand idea either. It's fine to help your SO, but... that... should that even be the *basis* for a relationship? I don't think so, honestly.

Are you sure he was saying that the basis of the relationship was fixing them? Because it sounds almost like you missed his point due to your visceral objection to le petit mort.

And that is yet another reason I don't do dating. I have too many issues. Plus my asexuality. Those things together make me a very bad choice for a SO. It can't be a healthy relationship like that. And I'd need a really healthy one. While I'm asexual and have no real interest towards sex, I'm think I could, for certain people, deal with that somewhat, for the importance it would hold for said person.

...

...

All I know is that I certainly don't want someone to whom it will be a sacrifice!

Eh. That's mostly a matter of well, A. luck and B. finding a compatible person. You just have, y'know, much more strict neuro- and bio-chemical requirements in a partner.

But for that to even be an option, the other person has to be not my therapist, but a true SO,

12 gods I wish I could drum that into one of my friends. He's got the two so wrapped up and fetishistically conflated I don't think one could even pull an Alexander on the Gordian Knot on 'em. x.x

[blackfox]

(Note to self: when making football analogies in future, actually have a working knowledge of football)

Helps if the person you're making analogies at understands competitive football as well.