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    Lightbulb [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Demolisher


    "I don't kick in the door, I blow it to HELL." - Timbo "Mallet" Ling

    Most stuck in a constantly curving, never ending maze of a dungeon will try to retrace their steps, and keep a level head to find their way. Not so the Demolisher, an engineer well versed in the structures of the underworld. Downing a wall is his way of finding his way through. Be it a learned application of the pick, explosions of intricate mixtures, or the usages of carefully applied acids. A demolisher is part rogue, part alchemist, part miner, and all business. For without a moment's notice the roof could collapse or an explosion go off prematurely. Not for him is the subtlety of lock-picks, or the crudity of physically bashing in doors, he has learned to use acids to get past these sorts of obstacles by melting out their hinges or dissolving the locking mechanisms. And even once the passageway is made, a demolisher may find himself nose to nose with a hungry underground denizen.

    Playing A Demolisher
    Factotums with a sense of curiosity and little tact are the most likely to go the way of the demolisher. They feel that nothing should stand in the way of their curiosity and have little respect for the walls that stand in their way.

    NPC demolishers are usually highly skilled dwarf miners or alchemists of any underground species. They can also be rangers of the deeps, applying their skills to underground terrains, crypt looting rogues, or mages interested in earth and stone.

    Hit Dice: d12

    -=-=-=-=-=-

    Requirements
    To qualify to become a Demolisher, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
    Skills: Craft (alchemy) 4, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 4, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) 4, Profession (demolition) 8
    Feats: Power Attack, Skill Focus (Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering)
    Language: Terran or Undercommon

    Code:
    
    Level BAB  Fort Ref Will Special                 
     
    1st   +0   +2   +2  +0   Destructive Brew, Stonecunning, Tapper             
    2nd   +1   +3   +3  +0   Acidic Mixture, Breaking & Entering, Earthen Feat        
    3rd   +2   +3   +3  +1   Burrow, Sense of Direction, Trap Sense     
    4th   +3   +4   +4  +1   Favored Enemy (Ooze), From Out of the Wreckage             
    5th   +3   +4   +4  +1   Concussion Resistance     
    6th   +4   +5   +5  +2   Ooze Ointment               
    7th   +5   +5   +5  +2   Tremorsense            
    8th   +6   +6   +6  +2   Expert Demolition          
    9th   +6   +6   +6  +3   X-ray Vision      
    10th  +7   +7   +7  +3   Demolition Master
    Class Skills
    The demolisher's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (any) (Int), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (architecture and engineering) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), and Spot (Wis).
    Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.

    -=-=-=-=-

    Class Features
    All of the following are Class Features of the demolisher prestige class.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Demolisher gains proficiency with any and all hammers and picks. They do not gain proficiency with any armor.

    Destructive Brew (Ex): A demolisher knows well the power and make of the substances he uses to remove obstacles. As well, as he advances he learns how to mix up a number of explosive substances himself and apply them skillfully to his calling. It takes 1/10th the normal time for a demolisher to craft explosive and acidic items, and base materials at a corresponding reduction in price. The explosives may only be sold at 1/4th their normal price as only a demolisher's special training allows him to use it to full affect.

    It takes a minute to properly place an explosive. At 4th level a demolisher may place them as a full-round action, and 8th a standard action. Throwing an explosive is a standard action, and if detonated by shock, or strikes a material designed to react to, explodes in a burst.

    These mixtures deal force damage, though the demolisher may craft them so that up to half the damage is instead Acid, Fire, or Sonic. Electrical damage may also be done, but its halved with fire damage (on uneven halves, the extra point goes to electricity). A successful reflex save (DC equal to Craft check) halves the damage.

    The amount of damage is equal to 1/4 your Craft (alchemy) roll added to a d6 (round down). For example, you have 8 ranks in Craft (Alchemy) and roll a 10 for a total of 18, your mixture will now deal 4d6 points of damage if set off.

    Area
    The placement of your mixture is crucial for its affect. You must make a Profession (Demolition) check before each placement. You decide upon placement which affect you wish to make. You do not however roll the Profession check until the explosion is triggered. If the check does not succeed on the exact area wished, the result corresponds with below.

    The maximum range of the affected area is 10 ft. plus a number of feet equal to the Profession (Demolition) roll above. When placing the explosive you must designate what range you wish to affect, with a 10 foot minimum. If you wish to affect a different area you must reposition the explosive.

    Burst
    A DC result of 1-14 allows you to set off the explosion as a Burst.

    Cone
    A DC result of 15-29 allows you to direct it in a cone. This cone focuses the energy of the blast, doubling the amount of damage dealt. In the damage example above the damage dealt would be 18d6.

    Line
    A DC result of 30 gives you the option of focusing it even further into a ray, and acts as the Disintegrate spell.


    Mixture Type
    There are three different types of mixtures he may mix.

    Solid: A solid mixture may be stuck to an object, even against gravity, poured into an object, or sprinkled. However, it does not readily dissolve in other mixtures.

    Liquid: A liquid mixture can be absorbed by a porous object, hidden in a drink, or poured through a thin opening. When absorbed or ingested the reaction is transferred to the subject.
    Example #1: If a log were soaked with a liquid mixture that has a reaction to fire and was then thrown in an oven the log would explode with the noted damage.
    Example #2. If a subject drank the liquid that reacted to shock and was then damaged they would then explode partially. A creature that is damaged from internal explosion takes double the indicated damage. If this would kill them, subtract the hit point total from the total damage rolled. Half this damage. The resulting damage is dealt to all objects and beings within 1/4th the normal range of that mixture.
    Note: A liquid used in this fashion cannot be direct and defaults to a Burst affect.

    Gaseous: This mixture fills an area equal to 10 feet per application. The explosion may only be directed as a burst regardless of Profession check. You may choose the mixture to be either Odorless or Colorless. A gaseous mixture cannot be detonated through shock.

    Detonation Method
    You may also choose in which way it may be set off:

    Energy: This mixture can only be set off with a type of energy, chosen from the following: Acid, Electricity, Fire or Sonic. You must specify the particular energy required to set it off.

    Reaction: This mixture can only be set off when coming in contact with another specified substance. You can be as broad or as vague as necessary. One substance may only require water, while another only the scales of a golden dragon reacts.

    Shock: By dealing physical force, or falling damage, to the mixture you set it off.

    Note: Only someone with ranks in Profession (demolisher) or Craft (alchemy) may properly set an explosive. If they don't have ranks, but are forced to guess at its placement, it still deals damage when set off, but only as a Burst, and even then only does half damage.

    Stonecunning: This ability grants a demolisher a +4 bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isnít stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. A demolisher who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a Search check as if he were actively searching, and he can use the Search skill to find stonework traps as a rogue can. A demolisher can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as others can sense which way is up.

    Tapper (Ex): At 1st level a Demolisher can, as a move action, use a hammer to tap around a room and discover any hidden doors with a successful listen check of DC 12. He can also use this to determine how thick a wall is for up to twenty feet of thickness with a successful listen check of DC 16. No check is necessary to discover if something is hollow or empty, such as a chest or visible door or anything else that could be hiding something within.

    Acidic Mixture (Ex): At 2nd level level a Demolisher learns the formula of special acids and gains a +4 bonus to Craft (alchemy) checks. He also gains a +4 bonus to Pick Locks when using acid.

    Breaking and Entering: A Demolisher gains Improved Sunder as a bonus feat. You gain a +2 bonus on any Strength checks you make to break down doors or break inanimate, immobile objects for each level of Demolisher. At 6th level you can ignore an object's hardness.

    Earthen Feat: You gain Earth Sense as a bonus feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisite.
    At 4th, 6th, 8th and 10th you gain an additional feat from the list below. You must be able to meet the prerequisites to take these feats:
    Blind-Fight, Danger Sense, Darkstalker, Earth Adept, Earth Master, Great Fortitude, Hear the Unseen, Tunnel Fighting, Tunnel Riding

    Burrow (Ex): At third level a Demolisher with a digging tool gains a burrow speed of 5 feet. This speed increase to 10 feet at sixth level, and to a total of 20 feet at ninth level. A Demolisher can burrow at half speed without a tool in soft earth, snow, sand and similar. At 10th level a Demolisher can burrow through these substances at full speed without tools.
    You gain Weapon Focus (pick) or (hammer) as a bonus feat.

    Sense of Direction: At 3rd level a Demolisher becomes immune to Maze spells. He always knows where he is in relation to where he's been, and can retrace his steps infallibly. He may do this even when he cannot see where he is.

    Trap Sense (Ex): A demolisher gains an intuitive sense that alerts him to danger from traps, giving him a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses increase by +1 for each additional Demolisher level.

    Favored Enemy (Ooze) (Ex): At fourth level a Demolisher has learned the ways of oozes and formally declares them as the creatures they detest above all others. Due to their extensive knowledge a Demolisher gains a +2 bonus on Listen, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against any type of ooze. Likewise, one of this class receives a +2 on weapon damage rolls against creatures of this kind. A demolisher's save against an ooze's acid (damage and paralysis) is also increase by 1 per level taken of Demolisher.
    At 8th level the bonuses to skills and attacks double.

    These bonuses do not stack with a Ranger's existing favored enemy bonuses.

    Optional
    A Demolisher could also theoretically choose Elemental (Earth), Outsider (earth), Vermin or any underground creature type to which he often interacts with or fights.

    From Out of the Wreckage (Ex): A Demolisher automatically succeeds on reflex saves against cave-ins and only takes half damage. He also only takes half damage while pinned by rubble. A Demolisher may instinctively goes into the Trance of the Trapped, requiring only 1/10th the normal air. While in this trance they can take no actions. They may leave the trance at will.

    A Demolisher may also attempt to escape a cave-in without aid by making 3 consecutive DC 15 Strength checks. If he fails even once he is completely trapped and cannot make further strength checks.

    Concussion Resistance (Ex): At fifth level a Demolisher has learned how to toughen and relax himself to take concussive blows from experience with his own explosives. This results in resistance 10 to sonics and force, including explosions. This includes effects like a Concussion Blast or Magic Missile. This resistance increases by 2 per Demolisher level to a maximum of resistance 20 at level ten.

    At 8th level a Demolisher gains the Improved Toughness feat.

    Ooze Ointment (Ex): At sixth level a Demolisher begins to protectively secrete a residue that react painfully with an ooze's structure, causing a sort of 'bad taste'.

    This secretion may be gathered and distilled with a DC 20 alchemy check and used to coat armor or coated on surfaces. An ooze who contacts this secretion must make a Fortitude save (DC equal to craft (alchemy) check) or take 1d4 points of dessication damage and will immediately try to leave the area. If this mixture is poured around the creature it is trapped and remains unmoving. This does not keep it from extending pseudopodia over it to attack those nearby however. The ointment lasts only a day before evaporating. It takes a week to gather the required amount from a single Demolisher.

    Tremorsense (Ex): At seventh level a Demolisher has become so wary of cave-ins and sensitive to the stability of his surroundings that he gains an ability akin to tremorsense out to 60 feet. A Demolisher always knows two rounds before an area is about to collapse, and can sense the beginnings of a natural earthquake up to a day per Demolisher level before it occurs.

    Expert Demolition (Ex): At eighth level a Demolisher no longer has to make a check to see if he's planted his explosives correctly. He knows 'exactly' where they should be located. He can also detect any weak spot in a surface, and can use only a well swung hammer or pick to collapse a wall or ceiling.

    X-ray Vision (Su): At ninth level a Demolisher has magically adapted to his profession and gains the ability to see through up to five feet of stone, one inch of most metals, or 8 feet of wood. Lead and denser metals block all x-ray vision.

    Demolition Master: At tenth level a Demolisher has learned the methods to destroy nearly anything he wishes. He may break through even force affects such as a Wall of Force or Force Cage and he ignores enhancement bonuses to weapons and armor. With a common sword, or even his bare hands, he may attempt to sunder any item. His attacks ignore armor, and are considered Touch Attacks.

    As well, he no longer needs tools or explosives. With a touch here, a rap there and a careful vibration of voice he achieves his goal without additional help. Doors even act as if affected by Knock.
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2011-01-22 at 02:33 PM.

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    Default Re: [PrC] The ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    I really wanna try this in a Tomb of Horrors adventure now

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    The Ooze Ointment sounds freaky. Like magical sweat. Not sure what to do with it.

    Otherwise fun class to play. It lets you be the guy that blows a path straight through the labyrinth instead of wandering around for hours.
    Currently playing a "blind" (Miraluka) sniper in a Star Wars SAGA Edition RP

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Destructive Brew (Ex): A demolisher knows well the power and make of the substances he uses to remove obstacles. As well, as he advances he learns how to mix up a number of explosive and acidic substances himself and apply them skillfully to his calling. Even with his experience a Demolisher must make a DC 20 Knowledge (architecture and engineering) skill check to predict and measure the necessary amount and properly place the explosives. If not, the following chart shows the failed results with a 1d12:
    What action does this take? How does this work; can you remove anything? There are rules for objects, you know, and if this automatically blows up anything with no limits with a simple knowledge check, the first thing this class would do is blow up the earth.

    1 - The Demolisher made a horrible mistake, and has taken out the supports of the room, causing the entire area to collapse in on itself in a 20x20 area. It also goes off prematurely before the Demolisher can escape the room, causing 2d10 points of damage from the explosion, and then he, and everyone else with him, is trapped and hit by the falling debris.
    No reflex save? Also, what if you're blowing something up outside; does the entire earth collapse into a small 20X20 square?

    2 - The Demolisher made a mistake and put too much explosive nearby and it goes off early. The Demolisher is almost out of range before it goes off, but still takes 1d6 points of damage. An area of 10x10 collapses in on itself.
    OK, I guess, but still, the wording makes it impossible to know if a 10x10 area is huge or barely anything.

    3 - The Demolisher made a mistake and though he gets out in time, it takes out the wrong area, and causes everything around the explosion in a 5x10 area to collapse
    OK... well, there's no range for the explosions anyway, so I don't know if 5x10 extra is a lot or not.

    4 - The Demolisher made a mistake and nothing happens. The explosive simply doesn't go off until approached once again, where he takes 1d20 points of damage
    And... does the explosion still auto get rid of obstacles? This is very poorly worded.

    9-10 - The Demolisher made a mistake and set the explosives in the wrong place and the opening he was wishing for does not show. It may simply blast out a bit of rock, or open a passage to an entirely different location.
    But what if you aren't opening a passageway? This class feature just seems to be "Blow this up" where "this" is ill defined; much like collapsing a room into a 20x20 square, it doesn't work if you aren't doing one specific thing.

    11-12 - The Demolisher made a mistake and though the passageway is opened like he wanted, it takes out the supports to the room it led into and the opening is blocked once more.
    So... it does nothing? Why does this need a separate feature? Again, what if you aren't opening a passageway?

    Stonecunning: This ability grants a demolisher a +2 bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isnít stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. A demolisher who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a Search check as if he were actively searching, and he can use the Search skill to find stonework traps as a rogue can. A demolisher can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as others can sense which way is up.
    Woo, fluff bonuses! Nothing wrong with this, but it's not great.

    Tapper (Ex): At 1st level a Demolisher can use a hammer to tap around a room and discover any hidden doors with a successful listen check of DC 12. He can also use this to determine how thick a wall is for up to twenty feet of thickness with a successful listen check of DC 16. No check is necessary to discover if something is hollow or empty, such as a chest or visible door or anything else that could be hiding something within.
    What action is required for this, again?

    Acidic Mixture (Ex): At 2nd level level a Demolisher learns the formula of special acids and gains a +4 bonus to Craft (alchemy) checks.
    Woo?

    Demonblood
    This noxious mixture once properly created makes a yellowish, oily substance.
    Skill check: Craft (alchemy) DC 20
    Effect: Demonblood dissolves iron, lead, fabrics, wood, bone, and flesh even in small quantities at 4 HP per round. Its fumes, if breathed in, sear the lungs for 1d6 points of damage and 2 points of temporary constitution loss.
    Cost: The materials for Demonblood can be mined by the Demolisher and cost nothing. The bought materials per gallon cost 5 gold.
    So... how does it work to breathe in the fumes? Can you use it as a ranged attack? How long do they last?

    Royal Water
    This is a very unassuming mixture that as appears as a clear, clean liquid. It burns flesh if in contact for extended periods but is otherwise safe to handle.
    Skill check: Craft (alchemy) DC 24
    Effect: Royal water dissolves platinum and gold at 2 HP per round.
    Cost: 1 gallon of Royal water takes 20 gold worth of materials to mix.
    You know what else dissolves gold and platinum at 2HP per round or more? A hammer! Why would you pay 20 g to do something that has no mechanical effect?

    Hardbane
    This intensely sticky substance is a thickly gooey, dark-gray mixture that binds tightly with steel, mithril and even adamantium.
    Skill check: Craft (alchemy) DC 28
    Effect: Hardbane disolves steel at a rate of 4 HP per round, mithril 2 HP per round, and adamantium at 1 HP per round.
    Cost: The raw materials for hardbane cost 60 gold per oz. [/spoiler]
    Again, you can just hit things to get this. The same actually goes for your original class feature; Disintegrate is a lot easier than trying to figure out what limits, if any, you intended for your "blow stuff up" ability.

    Breaking and Entering: A Demolisher gains Improved Sunder as a bonus feat. You gain a +2 bonus on any Strength checks you make to break down doors or break inanimate, immobile objects for each level of Demolisher. At 6th level you can ignore an object's hardness.
    Well, for sunder monkeys this is OK, but sundering isn't all that great to begin with. This is the first ability with actual combat potential, though.

    Burrow (Ex): At third level a Demolisher with a digging tool gains a burrow speed of 5 feet. This speed increase to 10 feet at sixth level, and to a total of 20 feet at ninth level. A Demolisher can burrow at half speed without a tool.
    Well, that's useful for positioning, but this class is looking very mechanically weak so far.

    Trap Sense (Ex): A demolisher gains an intuitive sense that alerts him to danger from traps, giving him a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise by +1 for each additional level.
    It's trap sense, woo? Not the greatest ability ever.

    Favored Enemy (Ooze) (Ex): At fourth level a Demolisher has learned the ways of oozes and formally declares them as the creatures they detest above all others. Due to their extensive knowledge a Demolisher gains a +2 bonus on Listen, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against any type of ooze. Likewise, one of this class receives a +2 on weapon damage rolls against creatures of this kind. A demolisher's save against an ooze's acid (damage and paralysis) is also increase by 1 per level taken of Demolisher.
    At 8th level the bonuses to skills and attacks double.

    These bonuses do not stack with a Ranger's existing favored enemy bonuses.
    Oozes aren't that great anyway, and you'd need far more than a small bonus to damage to make this worth taking, so far.

    From Out of the Wreckage (Ex): A Demolisher automatically succeeds on reflex saves against cave-ins and only takes half damage. They also only take half damage while pinned by rubble. A Demolisher may instinctively goes into the Trance of the Trapped, requiring only 1/10th the normal air. While in this trance they can take no actions. They may leave the trance at will.
    What action does it take to go into the trance?

    A Demolisher may also attempt to escape a cave-in without aid by making 3 consecutive DC 15 Strength checks.
    Well, this is neat, if only because cave ins auto kill other people without help, which never made sense to me.

    Concussion Resistance (Ex): At fifth level a Demolisher has learned how to toughen and relax himself to take concussive blows from experience with his own explosives. This results in resistance 10 to sonics and force, including explosions. This includes effects like a Concussion Blast or Magic Missile. This resistance increase by 2 per Demolisher level to a maximum of resistance 20 at level ten.

    At 8th level a Demolisher gains the Improved Toughness feat.
    Word it as sonic and force damage; sonics and force just sounds weird. Anyway, I don't get why this gives you resistance to force, which is basically unresistable damage, but not bludgeoning, which actually causes concussions. (Note: force damage does plenty of things; cuts you open with wings, bites you with jaws of force, stabs you with arrows of force, hits you with missiles of force, etc. It's not just force as in "I bash stuff.")

    Ooze Ointment (Ex): At sixth level a Demolisher begins to secrete a residue that react painfully with an ooze's structure, causing a sort of 'bad taste'.

    This secretion may be gathered and distilled with a DC 20 alchemy check and used to coat armor or coated on surfaces. An ooze who contacts this secretion must make a Fortitude save (DC equal to craft (alchemy) check) or take 1d4 points of dessication damage and will immediately try to leave the area. If this mixture is poured around the creature it is trapped and remains unmoving. This does not keep it from extending pseudopodia over it to attack those nearby however. The ointment lasts only a day before evaporating. It takes a week to gather the required amount from a single Demolisher.
    Well, DC = to a skill check is an absurdly high DC, which is pretty bad, but... it's a horribly low damage. And it's *really* creepy that you're basically killing oozes with your own sweat. It also makes no sense how a bottle lasts a day, but it takes a week to collect it... the first through sixth days would have been gone by then, and that kind of fluff restriction just doesn't make sense.

    Tremorsense (Ex): At seventh level a Demolisher has become so wary of cave-ins and sensitive to the stability of his surroundings that he gains an ability akin to tremorsense out to 60 feet in every direction if any of his skin is in contact with the ground, wall, or ceiling, or anything also touching these surfaces, such as a pillar. A Demolisher always knows two rounds before an area is about to collapse, and can sense the beginnings of a natural earthquake up to a day before it occurs.
    Does this allow him to know in what way he's screwed up planting explosives? Also, future sight abilities are very horrible ideas because that strongly limits the actions you can take; if he doesn't sense earthquakes, you can't have a spellcaster use earthquake, you can't use cave in traps because he will know whether he succeeds or fails his save to avoid triggering it, but then won't activate it if it's going to be a yes anyway because he'll be backing away, etc.

    Expert Demolition (Ex): At eighth level a Demolisher no longer has to make a check to see if he's planted his explosives correctly. He knows 'exactly' where they should be located. He can also detect any weak spot in a surface, and can use only a well swung hammer or pick to collapse a wall or ceiling.
    Well, you get this about the time (actually far past the time) you'd auto succeed anyway.

    X-ray Vision (Su): At ninth level a Demolisher has magically adapted to his profession and gains the ability to see through up to five feet of stone, one inch of most metals, or 8 feet of wood. Lead and denser metals block all x-ray vision.
    Meh. One square of wood or stone isn't a great thing to see through, except in buildings.

    Lord of Demolition (Sp): At tenth level a Demolisher has learned the methods to destroy nearly anything he wishes. He may break through even force affects such as a Wall of Force or Force Cage and he ignores enhancement bonuses to weapons and armor. With a common sword, or even his bare hands, he may sunder any item. His attacks ignore armor, and are considered Touch Attacks.
    First off, it was never stated he couldn't destroy objects of force to begin with.

    Second, ignoring enhancement bonuses on items seems very random, especially since that hurts him because he ignores all armor anyway, and making all his items mundane is rather negative for a capstone.

    Third, normally all attacks being touch attacks would be very broken, but... this class gets literally no other useful class features related to actually fighting, on a poor fighting chassis.

    As well, he no longer needs tools or explosives. With a touch here, a rap there and a careful vibration of voice he achieves his goal without additional help.

    Doors act as if affected by Knock, except instead of simply unlocking they are wrecked from their hinges, cracked open, or in some way destroyed without the need for a Strength check.
    Woo, you get disintegrate for doors, yay?

    Explosives are volatile substances that react in various ways under certain circumstances. Once an explosion occurs the substance is immediately consumed. An explosion affects an area of 10 feet for every 2d6 damage the explosion would deal.
    Code:
    Name           Craft DC    Damage    Area    Detonation Method/Time       Weight   Cost   Price
    Augreen        24          4d6 force 20 ft.  Concussion                   1 lbs.   50 gp  100 gp
    Gun Powder     16          2d6 force 10 ft.  Fire/1d6 rounds              1 lbs.   9 gp   18 gp
    Picric         28          8d6 force 40 ft.  Fire or Concussion/Immediate 1/2 lbs. 100 gp 200 gp
    Undying Fire   22          1d6 fire  10 ft.  Fire or Concussion/Immediate 1 lbs.   20 gp  40 gp
    Augreen
    Augreen is a lumpy, clay-like substance. You can throw it as a ranged attack with a range increment of 20 feet. When it strikes a hard surface (or is struck hard), it deals 4d6 points of force damage.

    Undying Fire
    Undying fire is a dark, viscous liquid that is alike to alchemist's fire except that it burns for 3d6 rounds and water does not put it out. Undying fire can be put by complete smothering of the flame.

    Gun Powder
    Gun powder is a dark, powdery substance that deals 4d6 force damage.

    Picric
    Is a highly volatile dark yellow crystalline substance that if set near fire, or so much as dropped explodes. A being who uses the run action or undergoes any sudden movements, such as fighting, attempting a reflex save, throwing the mixture or the like risks setting it off. Each round this occurs they must roll a 1d20. On a roll of 1 the substance explodes.
    OK, and now you actually get explosives... except they're all very poor and not even useful for blowing through objects, which seems to be this classes primary feature.

    I just don't get this class. It's not good, at all, for anything related to combat, and destroying objects is a very specific ability that is, in general, very irrelevant to most campaigns. Nearly none of the abilities actually deal with combat, which makes this class, overall, terrible. It doesn't help that it's a level 5 entry PrC based entirely around doing a completely mundane task, when in D&D level 5 is near legendary heroes level. Anything this class can do, an equal level caster with Wings of Flurry can do better, and once they get disintegrate, this class is completely redundant, and I'm not talking about the typical "melee isn't useful against opti-casters" redundancy, I'm talking about the fact it gives up being good at combat in general to be worse at a utility feature than casters and, hell, even very powerful barbarians with adamantine weapons.

    Plus, the entry requirements make no sense. Power attack on a class with bad BAB that doesn't attack anything?
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-06-24 at 11:34 PM.

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    *cracks knuckles*

    What action does this take? How does this work; can you remove anything? There are rules for objects, you know, and if this automatically blows up anything with no limits with a simple knowledge check, the first thing this class would do is blow up the earth.
    See explosives.

    No reflex save? Also, what if you're blowing something up outside; does the entire earth collapse into a small 20X20 square?
    See rules for Cave-Ins.

    What action is required for this, again?
    See Listen skill.

    Again, you can just hit things to get this. The same actually goes for your original class feature; Disintegrate is a lot easier than trying to figure out what limits, if any, you intended for your "blow stuff up" ability.
    Yes, at 11th level you can use a spell that you can do at 6th level with this ability as many times per day as you have explosives.

    Well, for sunder monkeys this is OK, but sundering isn't all that great to begin with. This is the first ability with actual combat potential, though.
    You... get it 2nd level.

    Well, that's useful for positioning, but this class is looking very mechanically weak so far.
    d12 HD, 6 + Int skills, two good saves, cleric BAB, can duplicate a spell your wizard can't learn for 3 more levels, can sunder anything.

    I disagree.

    Word it as sonic and force damage; sonics and force just sounds weird. Anyway, I don't get why this gives you resistance to force, which is basically unresistable damage, but not bludgeoning, which actually causes concussions. (Note: force damage does plenty of things; cuts you open with wings, bites you with jaws of force, stabs you with arrows of force, hits you with missiles of force, etc. It's not just force as in "I bash stuff.")
    Telekinesis, concussive forces, shock waves and force fields are all lumped together in D&D. Can't help it. The ability to withstand shocks sounds much more like force than bludgeoning however.

    Well, DC = to a skill check is an absurdly high DC, which is pretty bad, but... it's a horribly low damage. And it's *really* creepy that you're basically killing oozes with your own sweat. It also makes no sense how a bottle lasts a day, but it takes a week to collect it... the first through sixth days would have been gone by then, and that kind of fluff restriction just doesn't make sense.
    It isn't meant to harm them so much as to make you immune to oozes. They won't willingly touch you.

    The bottle doesn't last a day, btw. Just its application. It can last indefinitely 'inside' the bottle.

    Does this allow him to know in what way he's screwed up planting explosives? Also, future sight abilities are very horrible ideas because that strongly limits the actions you can take; if he doesn't sense earthquakes, you can't have a spellcaster use earthquake, you can't use cave in traps because he will know whether he succeeds or fails his save to avoid triggering it, but then won't activate it if it's going to be a yes anyway because he'll be backing away, etc.
    Geeze...

    #1. It says specifically NATURAL earthquakes.
    #2. It isn't future sight. Its detecting the natural subharmonics of impending mantle shift. Animals also are sensitive to it.

    Meh. One square of wood or stone isn't a great thing to see through, except in buildings.
    I think you need to use your imagination a little. How about, for starters, negating concealment?

    First off, it was never stated he couldn't destroy objects of force to begin with.
    Nor did it say he couldn't leaps buildings in a single bound, but normal people can't destroy force without other force spells.

    Third, normally all attacks being touch attacks would be very broken, but...
    Deep Impact feat at 5th level.

    Nearly none of the abilities actually deal with combat
    Did I say this was a class designed for battle? No, I did not.

    #1. Great for sunder monkeys as you mentioned. Sunder is better than you give credit for.

    #2. Can craft explosives that deal more damage for far cheaper than any other item you can buy at levels you cannot duplicate with magic. Being completely mundane, these explosions bypass spell resistance, anti-magic fields, and most damage reduction. You can set up as many as you want, and detonate all at the same time, something you cannot do with spells. Sure, at 11th level you can cast disintegrate, what, twice per day? Demolisher can take your disintegrate and bottle it, hide it, apply it, multiply it and delay it.

    #3. Burrow is great for surprising enemies. Burrow right underneath them, or sneak into buildings.

    #4. One of the big creatures of the terrain where this fellow shines not only shuns the Demolisher, but he can herd it, trap it and basically tame it.

    #5. Sonic and force resistance. This is helpful.

    #6. With tremorsense you can't be snuck up on or flanked. It's basically all-around vision.

    #7. X-ray Vision: See above mention of X-ray vision.

    #8. As you said, treating all attacks as touch attacks is very handy.

    Al this is usable in battle and this class isn't even intended to be battle hardened.

    Plus, the entry requirements make no sense. Power attack on a class with bad BAB that doesn't attack anything?
    #1. Except that he DOES attack everything. This includes walls, items and the like. Also, it's the prerequisite for Improved Sunder. Thirdly, did I mention that this fellow here hits things to destroy them for a living?

    #2. Since when was 3/4ths attack 'Bad'?



    I'm always glad to have folks go over my stuff, but you seemed to have read it solely to destroy it and didn't notice 'any' good bits, of which this has quite a few. I could start half a dozen threads, each one for individual unique abilities granted here and a hundred uses I'm sure would be thought up for each one.

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    See explosives.
    I noticed them. Putting them next to the actual class would be useful. You still didn't post relative to any of my concerns about how it works if you aren't in a room.

    See rules for Cave-Ins.
    There are none. The closest I can find to actual cave in rules are in the spell Earthquake, which is, in itself, vague (it doesn't have any way listed to remove yourself from being pinned by rocks).

    See Listen skill.
    No rules in there. The only rule is that it's a move action to try to hear something a second time, which has nothing to do with this class.

    Yes, at 11th level you can use a spell that you can do at 6th level with this ability as many times per day as you have explosives.
    If you honestly think that even 8d6 force damage is as good as disintegrate, you're incredibly mistaken... 8d6 damage is enough to blast through an inch and a three quarters of stone (26.25 HP), assuming force damage ignores hardness (I can't recall, but I think it does). You can deal more damage to objects by just hitting them with an adamantine weapon.

    You... get it 2nd level.
    Exactly... getting a combat ability, and one that isn't that great, at second level is bad... D&D is pretty much entirely about combat, getting abilities that aren't useful in combat for questionably (and I think that's generous, all things considered) useful abilities is not good.

    d12 HD, 6 + Int skills, two good saves, cleric BAB, can duplicate a spell your wizard can't learn for 3 more levels, can sunder anything.

    I disagree.
    It has nearly no combat abilities, bad BAB for a class with no way to deal damage besides hitting things, and the ability to break loot and not need to spend money on an adamantine axe to smash walls in. It cannot duplicate disintegration, and I have no clue why you keep acting as if it can.

    None of this is powerful. Defensively, it's got a decent chassis, but it can't do anything with it.

    Telekinesis, concussive forces, shock waves and force fields are all lumped together in D&D. Can't help it. The ability to withstand shocks sounds much more like force than bludgeoning however.
    Concussive force is bludgeoning damage in D&D.... force is basically "anything." It's as much slashing, just plain hurting, piercing, biting, etc. as it is bludgeoning.

    It isn't meant to harm them so much as to make you immune to oozes. They won't willingly touch you.
    This doesn't address the absurd save required... it basically makes all oozes complete pushovers.

    The bottle doesn't last a day, btw. Just its application. It can last indefinitely 'inside' the bottle.
    My misreading.

    Geeze...

    #1. It says specifically NATURAL earthquakes.
    #2. It isn't future sight. Its detecting the natural subharmonics of impending mantle shift. Animals also are sensitive to it.
    This still doesn't get rid of the problem with cave ins, or the problem with future sight in general; it just doesn't work well in D&D.

    I think you need to use your imagination a little. How about, for starters, negating concealment?
    It does not say you can negate concealment. I don't assume mechanical abilities that aren't there, especially when it makes no sense... concealment is not just because you can't see them, but because you can't shoot through stone... whether you can see through rock or not, you can both tell where most of the person standing at a waist high wall is located, and you can't shoot his lower half.

    Nor did it say he couldn't leaps buildings in a single bound, but normal people can't destroy force without other force spells.
    Which is a unique ability, but not particularly useful, and not worth having no combat potential.


    Deep Impact feat at 5th level.
    Deep impact affects one attack and requires you to recharge to use it again. This ability is more along the lines of, say, persisted wraithstrike, which is considered broken for a reason.

    Did I say this was a class designed for battle? No, I did not
    Every class in D&D is designed for combat. Every. Single. Class. D&D is, mechanically, almost entirely about combat. Parties fight things. Sure, in a campaign specifically for blowing up walls, this class... hits walls a bit harder, and doesn't have to buy an adamantine axe, but in any normal campaign you are trading away all of your power for flavor (and I'm not using it ironically like Lightning Warrior; this really is a class that sacrifices nearly all combat ability, save free touch attacks, for pure flavor abilities.)

    #1. Great for sunder monkeys as you mentioned. Sunder is better than you give credit for.
    No, it's not. It's A: a bad debuff (at most, -7 to hit assuming it's a +5 Bane You weapon) and B: it ruins your loot.

    #2. Can craft explosives that deal more damage for far cheaper than any other item you can buy at levels you cannot duplicate with magic.
    More damage? No. Cheaper? Not than magic. Buying items that deal damage?Horribly suboptimal

    Being completely mundane, these explosions bypass spell resistance, anti-magic fields, and most damage reduction.
    Which is useful, except... you know, the orbs. And the fact magic ignores damage reduction by default anyway.

    Which is somewhat useful, and offset by the fact You can set up as many as you want, and detonate all at the same time, something you cannot do with spells.
    Explosive runes! Whee!

    Sure, at 11th level you can cast disintegrate, what, twice per day? Demolisher can take your disintegrate and bottle it, hide it, apply it, multiply it and delay it.
    No... you get explosive runes, except it costs you money to make and has a chance of blowing up whenever you do anything, and then will subsequently cause the rest of your explosives to blow up, probably killing you if you carry enough to actually blast through a wall. You don't get disintegrate. Disintegrate is automatic and deals far more damage.

    Plus, two disintegrates a day? Guess what? You can make, by RAW with the craft skill, one batch of explosives *per week.* And the explosives penetrate all of 1.5 inches of rock! Even further, one per week would require you to have a craft check of 72!

    #3. Burrow is great for surprising enemies. Burrow right underneath them, or sneak into buildings.
    Yes, it's useful, but a surprise round won't help you with your terrible combat ability and the fact hide and move silently aren't class skills.

    #4. One of the big creatures of the terrain where this fellow shines not only shuns the Demolisher, but he can herd it, trap it and basically tame it.
    If you mean taming oozes, that's... moderately useful, but to herd it you'd basically have to substitute your actions for its, and oozes are weak.

    #5. Sonic and force resistance. This is helpful.
    But defensive. That's the point. You've got some useful defensive abilities, but no way to deal decent damage.

    #6. With tremorsense you can't be snuck up on or flanked. It's basically all-around vision.
    Tremorsense says nothing about removing flanking... plus, you know, flight.

    #7. X-ray Vision: See above mention of X-ray vision.
    It doesn't penetrate concealment.

    #8. As you said, treating all attacks as touch attacks is very handy.
    It's the only useful offensive ability this class has.

    Al this is usable in battle and this class isn't even intended to be battle hardened.
    Creating a class not intended for battle in a game where 90% of the mechanics deal with battle is a very bad design goal.


    #1. Except that he DOES attack everything. This includes walls, items and the like. Also, it's the prerequisite for Improved Sunder. Thirdly, did I mention that this fellow here hits things to destroy them for a living?
    It seemed more like it was about blowing stuff up, and I don't particularly see bonuses to something that hinders the party (sundering) and getting free adamantine weapons as that great.

    #2. Since when was 3/4ths attack 'Bad'?
    Since the monk? Nothing that has no offensive options besides hitting things has mediocre BAB.

    I'm always glad to have folks go over my stuff, but you seemed to have read it solely to destroy it and didn't notice 'any' good bits, of which this has quite a few. I could start half a dozen threads, each one for individual unique abilities granted here and a hundred uses I'm sure would be thought up for each one.
    First off: That's how I act. I don't comment on flavor, I comment on things that make the class imbalanced or balanced. I don't post to destroy the class, I point out the flaws in everything, because everything has flaws, and then I post my overall assessment at the end.

    Second of all: Even if all your abilities have unique uses, they're still mechanically inferior to what other classes can do (and, in fact, what this class can do; it's better to just hit stuff than to use your explosives, even with your mediocre ability to hit things before you get the capstone), take massive amounts of downtime to make (for the best explosive, with a check of forty, you need two weeks per batch of 8d6 explosive).

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    So... basically how Earthquake works, except letting you free yourself with a DC 25 strength check. Fair enough.

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    {Scrubbed}
    Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2010-06-25 at 09:21 AM.

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Well this has the chances of getting horribly more hostile than it already is *runs*

    lol that being said:

    The sweat creeped me out.

    Also, if this was designed for a particular campaign (underground say) the class would be extremely useful (Imagine underdark) good times to be had.

    This being the case though I do see the point Mik is making. There's almost no combat potential and almost all D and D is combat. The bits that aren't lead to combat. Don't take it too harshly, they're just offering opinions. You don't even have to listen :-)

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Seems like something great for an NPC a party could hire to help blow something up. For PC use though, since it is rather reliant on the explosives, it might be an idea to give it a "fast craft" ability that allows members of this PrC to craft explosives and alchemic substances 10 times faster than normal. And maybe make it so for every 5 points they increase the Craft check, they can add 1d6 to the damage the explosive deals.

    Myself, I love seeing PrCs that don't necessarily deal with combat. You take PrCs to get something special, and that's it. I once made a detective PrC and it had very little in the way of combat at all, besides nullifying the penalties on improvised weapons.
    Last edited by Morph Bark; 2010-06-25 at 02:35 AM.
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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Honestly, it needs a lot more support in terms of more and better explosives, a fast craft mechanism, and a way of delivering the explosives reliably at range. More than that, I think that it would be fair to say I agree in bulk with Mil's comments. As it sits, this is not a class that I would let into my games.

    But it could become one.
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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Well, I had written up a big long post refuting much of this with examples... and then the storm took the power out.

    So... never mind. I rehauled the explosion system to be much more flexible and added a few things.

    Edit: Don't worry folks, I'll debate and argue but I won't bite.

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Did you just delete your post to repost as a bump? Your post certainly has no edit tag at the bottom.

    Anyway, it looks a lot better now, since it can actually attack with its explosives pretty well.

    My only comments are that it gets the disintegrate a little bit early (which is well and good since it's your primary feature), and that there is no specification on the range.

    That, and that if disintegrate acts as a line, it's much, much more powerful than a standard disintegrate, since it can effectively hit multiple creatures. Anyway, is the disintegrate explosive affected by SR (I'd assume no), and how is the caster level determined? It's a pretty powerful feature since you could detonate as a standard (to set) plus a free action (to drop it), though I'm not sure if that's what you intended.
    Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-07-01 at 02:41 PM.

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Instead of posting a second post I just add both together. It wasn't a bump. Why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    there is no specification on the range.
    Not sure where that went. Added range specifics. Also, disintegrate was meant to be a ray.

    Anyway, is the disintegrate explosive affected by SR (I'd assume no)
    Right

    It's a pretty powerful feature since you could detonate as a standard (to set) plus a free action (to drop it), though I'm not sure if that's what you intended.
    To set it is a standard action, but if you drop it, and it's a shock triggered explosive, you're now in the middle of the blast. You don't take as much damage, but you're not immune either.

    Maybe I'm not understanding the question?
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-07-01 at 03:46 PM.

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    To set it is a standard action, but if you drop it, and it's a shock triggered explosive, you're now in the middle of the blast. You don't take as much damage, but you're not immune either.

    Maybe I'm not understanding the question?
    It's a line (or ray, now)... you wouldn't be in the explosion at all if you dropped it (assuming it was pointed at your enemy, anyway).

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Quote Originally Posted by Milskidasith View Post
    It's a line (or ray, now)... you wouldn't be in the explosion at all if you dropped it (assuming it was pointed at your enemy, anyway).
    Placing it is not the same as detonating it. You'd have to drop it (free), set it (standard) and then detonate it. Doubt you could do that as a move action.

    If you drop it to detonate it then you haven't placed it so it's a burst.

    Either way, there isn't a problem.
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-07-01 at 04:07 PM.

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Interestingly enough, my current entry in the Base Class Challenge has the same name, though different mechanics and flavour.

    It's certainly an interesting class and it's nice to have mundane explosives. I must admit that I don't quite get the relationship with oozes, but ok.

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Quote Originally Posted by Sereg View Post
    It's certainly an interesting class and it's nice to have mundane explosives. I must admit that I don't quite get the relationship with oozes, but ok.
    It's the one creature type limited almost exclusively to subterranean terrains, which is where the demolisher tends to hang out.

    Also, since they tend to absorb all things, and the Demolisher, no matter how well he bathes, will always be absorbing low levels of strange chemicals, not to mention breathing and ingesting them. By 6th level I'm saying he's absorbed so much, oozes can't stand them.

    I'm considering however enhancing this so that any creature who tries to swallow them has a chance of regurgitating them and becoming nauseous.

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    confused Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    I am the sort of a person who cares a lot more about flavour than the stats, so here's my nitpick:

    The 'destructive brew' seems to be the core ability of the character, but one gains that from taking only one level of the class. I would opt for a list of successively more complex, powerful and varied explosives, which are learned much like magical spells, except obviously used and prepared as alchemical concoctions instead of magic. Also, to mention mechanics, I too have seen explosives' concussive force explained as crushing damage.

    'Tapper' should only instantly tell if small spaces are empty or not - telling what's behind a door, if the answer is a large hall, should only mention a large hall - hearing about the existence of any denizens of large spaces from a simple tap makes no sense.

    'Acidic mixture' has a poor name. It is a bonus to alchemy, not a new chemical brew. Perhaps 'Skill with acid' or 'Acid Mastery'.

    Concussion Resistance... Well, sonic and force resistance certainly are rare, though I still say force is not concussive. I would split this up into two, possibly with a resistance of 5 at an earlier level, maybe pushing another ability to a later level to prevent making some extra juicy levels to grab of this prestige class.

    Ooze ointment... I would prefer if this was another form of chemical. However, your explanation offered later - having come into contact with so many chemicals that the character simply is disgusting, is interesting. I propose the following: If a character has not bathed for N days (probably 3 or 4, maybe [n-demolisher level] while actively working on one's potions, one gains the advantage not as sweat, but as chemical residue on his skin and clothes. It cannot be bottled, but in addition to desiccating oozes, it will also lead to the suggested 'nauseating non-abominations who try to eat one'. However, it will also grant the character and possibly, if this ability has been 'on' for several days, the character's allies if one is close by, a noticeable penalty to most charisma-based checks.

    X-ray vision is the thing I have the most problems with. A clearly magical ability for an otherwise mundane class, simply out of the blue? I would probably not allow this class in a game I am running based on this inconsistency alone, even though I feel that it actually fills a gap among class abilities, unlike many other player-made prestige classes.

    Expert Demolition and Demolition Master seem too powerful to me, fluff-wise. The latter allows some bloke to break through an adamantium-reinforced stone wall made by greatly skilled dwarven craftsmen by knocking really well. It sounds like a shoddy attempt to make a 'memetic badass'. Also, there's a huge difference between comprehending the weak points of a wall and finding a way to overcome a demon's natural armour.

    I propose toning those two abilities down a bit, but in exchange adding plenty of anti-construct abilities to the character's repertoire, since those would make perfect sense for a character built around the concept of destroying objects to go where he wants to.

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Quote Originally Posted by Icedaemon View Post
    The 'destructive brew' seems to be the core ability of the character, but one gains that from taking only one level of the class. I would opt for a list of successively more complex, powerful and varied explosives, which are learned much like magical spells, except obviously used and prepared as alchemical concoctions instead of magic.
    I suppose that could work, though as stated before, most of them would become worthless to a simple use of disintegrate. That's why I went from writing up explosives to making a generic ability to craft them.

    I was hoping the rest of the benefits granted by this class would make it tasty enough to keep from dipping.

    You have a point, but I'm thinking something last drastic and more useful to keep others from dipping.

    Also, to mention mechanics, I too have seen explosives' concussive force explained as crushing damage.
    http://dndsrd.net/psionicPowersAtoC....ncussion-blast

    'Tapper' should only instantly tell if small spaces are empty or not - telling what's behind a door, if the answer is a large hall, should only mention a large hall - hearing about the existence of any denizens of large spaces from a simple tap makes no sense.
    Sure it does, it's echolocation (i.e. specific blindsense).


    Ooze ointment... I would prefer if this was another form of chemical. However, your explanation offered later - having come into contact with so many chemicals that the character simply is disgusting, is interesting. I propose the following: If a character has not bathed for N days (probably 3 or 4, maybe [n-demolisher level] while actively working on one's potions, one gains the advantage not as sweat, but as chemical residue on his skin and clothes.
    I dunno, a strong ability that can be negated by a use of a 0-level spell (Prestidigitation) just doesn't sit well with me.

    X-ray vision is the thing I have the most problems with. A clearly magical ability for an otherwise mundane class, simply out of the blue? I would probably not allow this class in a game I am running based on this inconsistency alone, even though I feel that it actually fills a gap among class abilities, unlike many other player-made prestige classes.
    As you say it fills it in, and the flavor supports it. Just because until now he's not used magic doesn't make it inconsistent. He just hasn't had any need for magic. The thing with a magic world is that it's hard not to adapt to it.

    Expert Demolition and Demolition Master seem too powerful to me, fluff-wise. The latter allows some bloke to break through an adamantium-reinforced stone wall made by greatly skilled dwarven craftsmen by knocking really well.
    With expert demolition I don't think it's too powerful other than the fact that D&D makes it too powerful. Any one in RL with considerable background knowledge and a lifetime of experience could like figure out the weakspot to any place. This guy is more than that. He's almost a superhero of demolition. By this level he'd be a genius at this sort of thing, a once in a generation person.

    Demolition master, well, perhaps he is strong, but the fluff can always be tweaked for your campaign.

    Also, there's a huge difference between comprehending the weak points of a wall and finding a way to overcome a demon's natural armour.
    Why? Demons still have a structure.

  22. - Top - End - #22
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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Quote Originally Posted by The Vorpal Tribble View Post
    I suppose that could work, though as stated before, most of them would become worthless to a simple use of disintegrate. Given how the number of times a chemist's abilities can be used is limited only by availability of components and the time it takes to concoct new brews, while a wizard or sorcerer can only disintegrate things a couple of times per day, I would not consider this that big a drawback. That's why I went from writing up explosives to making a generic ability to craft them.

    Sure it does, it's echolocation (i.e. specific blindsense).
    The fact that echolocation is a real and known thing does not mean that one can learn perfect echolocation just like this. It would probably be better fluff-wise and possibly in terms of balance as well if it would have an upper limit to how much space this ability can show to be empty or not. Echolocation good enough to tell if a box is empty or not and good enough to tell if there are people in a huge room are very far apart, about as much as, say, a ray of frost and a cone of cold.

    I dunno, a strong ability that can be negated by a use of a 0-level spell (Prestidigitation) just doesn't sit well with me.
    It would be an interesting weakness. You could also rule that the sheer amount of filth means that prestidigitation must be used on each of his body parts separately.

    As you say it fills it in, and the flavor supports it. Just because until now he's not used magic doesn't make it inconsistent. He just hasn't had any need for magic. The thing with a magic world is that it's hard not to adapt to it.
    I did not say that this ability fills an important gap, I was talking about the class' concept. The explanation offered might be sufficient on a high-magic world, but one where wizards are rare, doubtful.

    Why? Demons still have a structure.
    So? The class describes a person who has incredible aptitude to structural engineering and chemistry, by virtue of which he or she can bring down buildings. Having similar knowledge regarding the biology of various types of being, including even outsiders, is very far fetched. Surely you do not think that all engineers and architects in the real world have an acute knowledge of the pressure points of a human body?
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  23. - Top - End - #23
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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Given how the number of times a chemist's abilities can be used is limited only by availability of components and the time it takes to concoct new brews, while a wizard or sorcerer can only disintegrate things a couple of times per day, I would not consider this that big a drawback.
    However, making these things shouldn't be based on class level but skill. That's both realistic and in keeping with the standard rules of D&D. I think it needs something to keep another from dipping, but that solution doesn't set well.

    The fact that echolocation is a real and known thing does not mean that one can learn perfect echolocation just like this. It would probably be better fluff-wise and possibly in terms of balance as well if it would have an upper limit to how much space this ability can show to be empty or not.
    It does give a specific limit. You can sense out to 20 feet.

    So? The class describes a person who has incredible aptitude to structural engineering and chemistry, by virtue of which he or she can bring down buildings. Having similar knowledge regarding the biology of various types of being, including even outsiders, is very far fetched. Surely you do not think that all engineers and architects in the real world have an acute knowledge of the pressure points of a human body?
    You have a point, however, considering he also has tremorsense and a sort of echolocation, he has also, over the course of becoming one of the highest level beings in the world, discovered something about pressure points of all structures and can apply his knowledge to match it.

  24. - Top - End - #24
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    This class needs one more feature: Proficiency and eventually bonuses with all picks.

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkusWolfe View Post
    This class needs one more feature: Proficiency and eventually bonuses with all picks.
    Take a look up by Class Features

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Demolisher gains proficiency with any and all hammers and picks. They do not gain proficiency with any armor.
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-07-14 at 05:05 PM.

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    Default Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play

    Given how the number of times a chemist's abilities can be used is limited only by availability of components and the time it takes to concoct new brews, while a wizard or sorcerer can only disintegrate things a couple of times per day, I would not consider this that big a drawback.
    A wizard gets Scribe scroll for free... don't know how significant you consider the XP costs... for really spamming it an Arcanist can even take the Craft Wand feat.
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