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2010-06-24, 08:14 PM (ISO 8601)
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[PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Demolisher
"I don't kick in the door, I blow it to HELL." - Timbo "Mallet" Ling
Most stuck in a constantly curving, never ending maze of a dungeon will try to retrace their steps, and keep a level head to find their way. Not so the Demolisher, an engineer well versed in the structures of the underworld. Downing a wall is his way of finding his way through. Be it a learned application of the pick, explosions of intricate mixtures, or the usages of carefully applied acids. A demolisher is part rogue, part alchemist, part miner, and all business. For without a moment's notice the roof could collapse or an explosion go off prematurely. Not for him is the subtlety of lock-picks, or the crudity of physically bashing in doors, he has learned to use acids to get past these sorts of obstacles by melting out their hinges or dissolving the locking mechanisms. And even once the passageway is made, a demolisher may find himself nose to nose with a hungry underground denizen.
Playing A Demolisher
Factotums with a sense of curiosity and little tact are the most likely to go the way of the demolisher. They feel that nothing should stand in the way of their curiosity and have little respect for the walls that stand in their way.
NPC demolishers are usually highly skilled dwarf miners or alchemists of any underground species. They can also be rangers of the deeps, applying their skills to underground terrains, crypt looting rogues, or mages interested in earth and stone.
Hit Dice: d12
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Requirements
To qualify to become a Demolisher, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Craft (alchemy) 4, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) 4, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) 4, Profession (demolition) 8
Feats: Power Attack, Skill Focus (Knowledge: Architecture and Engineering)
Language: Terran or Undercommon
Code:Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special 1st +0 +2 +2 +0 Destructive Brew, Stonecunning, Tapper 2nd +1 +3 +3 +0 Acidic Mixture, Breaking & Entering, Earthen Feat 3rd +2 +3 +3 +1 Burrow, Sense of Direction, Trap Sense 4th +3 +4 +4 +1 Favored Enemy (Ooze), From Out of the Wreckage 5th +3 +4 +4 +1 Concussion Resistance 6th +4 +5 +5 +2 Ooze Ointment 7th +5 +5 +5 +2 Tremorsense 8th +6 +6 +6 +2 Expert Demolition 9th +6 +6 +6 +3 X-ray Vision 10th +7 +7 +7 +3 Demolition Master
The demolisher's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (any) (Int), Disable Device (Int), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (architecture and engineering) (Int), Knowledge (Dungeoneering) (Int), Listen (Wis), Open Lock (Dex), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), and Spot (Wis).
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 6 + Int modifier.
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Class Features
All of the following are Class Features of the demolisher prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A Demolisher gains proficiency with any and all hammers and picks. They do not gain proficiency with any armor.
Destructive Brew (Ex): A demolisher knows well the power and make of the substances he uses to remove obstacles. As well, as he advances he learns how to mix up a number of explosive substances himself and apply them skillfully to his calling. It takes 1/10th the normal time for a demolisher to craft explosive and acidic items, and base materials at a corresponding reduction in price. The explosives may only be sold at 1/4th their normal price as only a demolisher's special training allows him to use it to full affect.
It takes a minute to properly place an explosive. At 4th level a demolisher may place them as a full-round action, and 8th a standard action. Throwing an explosive is a standard action, and if detonated by shock, or strikes a material designed to react to, explodes in a burst.
These mixtures deal force damage, though the demolisher may craft them so that up to half the damage is instead Acid, Fire, or Sonic. Electrical damage may also be done, but its halved with fire damage (on uneven halves, the extra point goes to electricity). A successful reflex save (DC equal to Craft check) halves the damage.
The amount of damage is equal to 1/4 your Craft (alchemy) roll added to a d6 (round down). For example, you have 8 ranks in Craft (Alchemy) and roll a 10 for a total of 18, your mixture will now deal 4d6 points of damage if set off.
Area
The placement of your mixture is crucial for its affect. You must make a Profession (Demolition) check before each placement. You decide upon placement which affect you wish to make. You do not however roll the Profession check until the explosion is triggered. If the check does not succeed on the exact area wished, the result corresponds with below.
The maximum range of the affected area is 10 ft. plus a number of feet equal to the Profession (Demolition) roll above. When placing the explosive you must designate what range you wish to affect, with a 10 foot minimum. If you wish to affect a different area you must reposition the explosive.
Burst
A DC result of 1-14 allows you to set off the explosion as a Burst.
Cone
A DC result of 15-29 allows you to direct it in a cone. This cone focuses the energy of the blast, doubling the amount of damage dealt. In the damage example above the damage dealt would be 18d6.
Line
A DC result of 30 gives you the option of focusing it even further into a ray, and acts as the Disintegrate spell.
Mixture Type
There are three different types of mixtures he may mix.
Solid: A solid mixture may be stuck to an object, even against gravity, poured into an object, or sprinkled. However, it does not readily dissolve in other mixtures.
Liquid: A liquid mixture can be absorbed by a porous object, hidden in a drink, or poured through a thin opening. When absorbed or ingested the reaction is transferred to the subject.
Example #1: If a log were soaked with a liquid mixture that has a reaction to fire and was then thrown in an oven the log would explode with the noted damage.
Example #2. If a subject drank the liquid that reacted to shock and was then damaged they would then explode partially. A creature that is damaged from internal explosion takes double the indicated damage. If this would kill them, subtract the hit point total from the total damage rolled. Half this damage. The resulting damage is dealt to all objects and beings within 1/4th the normal range of that mixture.
Note: A liquid used in this fashion cannot be direct and defaults to a Burst affect.
Gaseous: This mixture fills an area equal to 10 feet per application. The explosion may only be directed as a burst regardless of Profession check. You may choose the mixture to be either Odorless or Colorless. A gaseous mixture cannot be detonated through shock.
Detonation Method
You may also choose in which way it may be set off:
Energy: This mixture can only be set off with a type of energy, chosen from the following: Acid, Electricity, Fire or Sonic. You must specify the particular energy required to set it off.
Reaction: This mixture can only be set off when coming in contact with another specified substance. You can be as broad or as vague as necessary. One substance may only require water, while another only the scales of a golden dragon reacts.
Shock: By dealing physical force, or falling damage, to the mixture you set it off.
Note: Only someone with ranks in Profession (demolisher) or Craft (alchemy) may properly set an explosive. If they don't have ranks, but are forced to guess at its placement, it still deals damage when set off, but only as a Burst, and even then only does half damage.
Stonecunning: This ability grants a demolisher a +4 bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isn’t stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. A demolisher who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a Search check as if he were actively searching, and he can use the Search skill to find stonework traps as a rogue can. A demolisher can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as others can sense which way is up.
Tapper (Ex): At 1st level a Demolisher can, as a move action, use a hammer to tap around a room and discover any hidden doors with a successful listen check of DC 12. He can also use this to determine how thick a wall is for up to twenty feet of thickness with a successful listen check of DC 16. No check is necessary to discover if something is hollow or empty, such as a chest or visible door or anything else that could be hiding something within.
Acidic Mixture (Ex): At 2nd level level a Demolisher learns the formula of special acids and gains a +4 bonus to Craft (alchemy) checks. He also gains a +4 bonus to Pick Locks when using acid.
Breaking and Entering: A Demolisher gains Improved Sunder as a bonus feat. You gain a +2 bonus on any Strength checks you make to break down doors or break inanimate, immobile objects for each level of Demolisher. At 6th level you can ignore an object's hardness.
Earthen Feat: You gain Earth Sense as a bonus feat, even if you don't meet the prerequisite.
At 4th, 6th, 8th and 10th you gain an additional feat from the list below. You must be able to meet the prerequisites to take these feats:
Blind-Fight, Danger Sense, Darkstalker, Earth Adept, Earth Master, Great Fortitude, Hear the Unseen, Tunnel Fighting, Tunnel Riding
Burrow (Ex): At third level a Demolisher with a digging tool gains a burrow speed of 5 feet. This speed increase to 10 feet at sixth level, and to a total of 20 feet at ninth level. A Demolisher can burrow at half speed without a tool in soft earth, snow, sand and similar. At 10th level a Demolisher can burrow through these substances at full speed without tools.
You gain Weapon Focus (pick) or (hammer) as a bonus feat.
Sense of Direction: At 3rd level a Demolisher becomes immune to Maze spells. He always knows where he is in relation to where he's been, and can retrace his steps infallibly. He may do this even when he cannot see where he is.
Trap Sense (Ex): A demolisher gains an intuitive sense that alerts him to danger from traps, giving him a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses increase by +1 for each additional Demolisher level.
Favored Enemy (Ooze) (Ex): At fourth level a Demolisher has learned the ways of oozes and formally declares them as the creatures they detest above all others. Due to their extensive knowledge a Demolisher gains a +2 bonus on Listen, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against any type of ooze. Likewise, one of this class receives a +2 on weapon damage rolls against creatures of this kind. A demolisher's save against an ooze's acid (damage and paralysis) is also increase by 1 per level taken of Demolisher.
At 8th level the bonuses to skills and attacks double.
These bonuses do not stack with a Ranger's existing favored enemy bonuses.
Optional
A Demolisher could also theoretically choose Elemental (Earth), Outsider (earth), Vermin or any underground creature type to which he often interacts with or fights.
From Out of the Wreckage (Ex): A Demolisher automatically succeeds on reflex saves against cave-ins and only takes half damage. He also only takes half damage while pinned by rubble. A Demolisher may instinctively goes into the Trance of the Trapped, requiring only 1/10th the normal air. While in this trance they can take no actions. They may leave the trance at will.
A Demolisher may also attempt to escape a cave-in without aid by making 3 consecutive DC 15 Strength checks. If he fails even once he is completely trapped and cannot make further strength checks.
Concussion Resistance (Ex): At fifth level a Demolisher has learned how to toughen and relax himself to take concussive blows from experience with his own explosives. This results in resistance 10 to sonics and force, including explosions. This includes effects like a Concussion Blast or Magic Missile. This resistance increases by 2 per Demolisher level to a maximum of resistance 20 at level ten.
At 8th level a Demolisher gains the Improved Toughness feat.
Ooze Ointment (Ex): At sixth level a Demolisher begins to protectively secrete a residue that react painfully with an ooze's structure, causing a sort of 'bad taste'.
This secretion may be gathered and distilled with a DC 20 alchemy check and used to coat armor or coated on surfaces. An ooze who contacts this secretion must make a Fortitude save (DC equal to craft (alchemy) check) or take 1d4 points of dessication damage and will immediately try to leave the area. If this mixture is poured around the creature it is trapped and remains unmoving. This does not keep it from extending pseudopodia over it to attack those nearby however. The ointment lasts only a day before evaporating. It takes a week to gather the required amount from a single Demolisher.
Tremorsense (Ex): At seventh level a Demolisher has become so wary of cave-ins and sensitive to the stability of his surroundings that he gains an ability akin to tremorsense out to 60 feet. A Demolisher always knows two rounds before an area is about to collapse, and can sense the beginnings of a natural earthquake up to a day per Demolisher level before it occurs.
Expert Demolition (Ex): At eighth level a Demolisher no longer has to make a check to see if he's planted his explosives correctly. He knows 'exactly' where they should be located. He can also detect any weak spot in a surface, and can use only a well swung hammer or pick to collapse a wall or ceiling.
X-ray Vision (Su): At ninth level a Demolisher has magically adapted to his profession and gains the ability to see through up to five feet of stone, one inch of most metals, or 8 feet of wood. Lead and denser metals block all x-ray vision.
Demolition Master: At tenth level a Demolisher has learned the methods to destroy nearly anything he wishes. He may break through even force affects such as a Wall of Force or Force Cage and he ignores enhancement bonuses to weapons and armor. With a common sword, or even his bare hands, he may attempt to sunder any item. His attacks ignore armor, and are considered Touch Attacks.
As well, he no longer needs tools or explosives. With a touch here, a rap there and a careful vibration of voice he achieves his goal without additional help. Doors even act as if affected by Knock.Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2011-01-22 at 02:33 PM.
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2010-06-24, 11:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2004
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Re: [PrC] The ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
I really wanna try this in a Tomb of Horrors adventure now
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2010-06-24, 11:10 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2008
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- California
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
The Ooze Ointment sounds freaky. Like magical sweat. Not sure what to do with it.
Otherwise fun class to play. It lets you be the guy that blows a path straight through the labyrinth instead of wandering around for hours.Currently playing a "blind" (Miraluka) sniper in a Star Wars SAGA Edition RP
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2010-06-24, 11:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2009
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Destructive Brew (Ex): A demolisher knows well the power and make of the substances he uses to remove obstacles. As well, as he advances he learns how to mix up a number of explosive and acidic substances himself and apply them skillfully to his calling. Even with his experience a Demolisher must make a DC 20 Knowledge (architecture and engineering) skill check to predict and measure the necessary amount and properly place the explosives. If not, the following chart shows the failed results with a 1d12:
1 - The Demolisher made a horrible mistake, and has taken out the supports of the room, causing the entire area to collapse in on itself in a 20x20 area. It also goes off prematurely before the Demolisher can escape the room, causing 2d10 points of damage from the explosion, and then he, and everyone else with him, is trapped and hit by the falling debris.
2 - The Demolisher made a mistake and put too much explosive nearby and it goes off early. The Demolisher is almost out of range before it goes off, but still takes 1d6 points of damage. An area of 10x10 collapses in on itself.
3 - The Demolisher made a mistake and though he gets out in time, it takes out the wrong area, and causes everything around the explosion in a 5x10 area to collapse
4 - The Demolisher made a mistake and nothing happens. The explosive simply doesn't go off until approached once again, where he takes 1d20 points of damage
9-10 - The Demolisher made a mistake and set the explosives in the wrong place and the opening he was wishing for does not show. It may simply blast out a bit of rock, or open a passage to an entirely different location.
11-12 - The Demolisher made a mistake and though the passageway is opened like he wanted, it takes out the supports to the room it led into and the opening is blocked once more.
Stonecunning: This ability grants a demolisher a +2 bonus on Search checks to notice unusual stonework, such as sliding walls, stonework traps, new construction (even when built to match the old), unsafe stone surfaces, shaky stone ceilings, and the like. Something that isn’t stone but that is disguised as stone also counts as unusual stonework. A demolisher who merely comes within 10 feet of unusual stonework can make a Search check as if he were actively searching, and he can use the Search skill to find stonework traps as a rogue can. A demolisher can also intuit depth, sensing his approximate depth underground as naturally as others can sense which way is up.
Tapper (Ex): At 1st level a Demolisher can use a hammer to tap around a room and discover any hidden doors with a successful listen check of DC 12. He can also use this to determine how thick a wall is for up to twenty feet of thickness with a successful listen check of DC 16. No check is necessary to discover if something is hollow or empty, such as a chest or visible door or anything else that could be hiding something within.
Acidic Mixture (Ex): At 2nd level level a Demolisher learns the formula of special acids and gains a +4 bonus to Craft (alchemy) checks.
Demonblood
This noxious mixture once properly created makes a yellowish, oily substance.
Skill check: Craft (alchemy) DC 20
Effect: Demonblood dissolves iron, lead, fabrics, wood, bone, and flesh even in small quantities at 4 HP per round. Its fumes, if breathed in, sear the lungs for 1d6 points of damage and 2 points of temporary constitution loss.
Cost: The materials for Demonblood can be mined by the Demolisher and cost nothing. The bought materials per gallon cost 5 gold.
Royal Water
This is a very unassuming mixture that as appears as a clear, clean liquid. It burns flesh if in contact for extended periods but is otherwise safe to handle.
Skill check: Craft (alchemy) DC 24
Effect: Royal water dissolves platinum and gold at 2 HP per round.
Cost: 1 gallon of Royal water takes 20 gold worth of materials to mix.
Hardbane
This intensely sticky substance is a thickly gooey, dark-gray mixture that binds tightly with steel, mithril and even adamantium.
Skill check: Craft (alchemy) DC 28
Effect: Hardbane disolves steel at a rate of 4 HP per round, mithril 2 HP per round, and adamantium at 1 HP per round.
Cost: The raw materials for hardbane cost 60 gold per oz. [/spoiler]
Breaking and Entering: A Demolisher gains Improved Sunder as a bonus feat. You gain a +2 bonus on any Strength checks you make to break down doors or break inanimate, immobile objects for each level of Demolisher. At 6th level you can ignore an object's hardness.
Burrow (Ex): At third level a Demolisher with a digging tool gains a burrow speed of 5 feet. This speed increase to 10 feet at sixth level, and to a total of 20 feet at ninth level. A Demolisher can burrow at half speed without a tool.
Trap Sense (Ex): A demolisher gains an intuitive sense that alerts him to danger from traps, giving him a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps and a +1 dodge bonus to AC against attacks made by traps. These bonuses rise by +1 for each additional level.
Favored Enemy (Ooze) (Ex): At fourth level a Demolisher has learned the ways of oozes and formally declares them as the creatures they detest above all others. Due to their extensive knowledge a Demolisher gains a +2 bonus on Listen, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against any type of ooze. Likewise, one of this class receives a +2 on weapon damage rolls against creatures of this kind. A demolisher's save against an ooze's acid (damage and paralysis) is also increase by 1 per level taken of Demolisher.
At 8th level the bonuses to skills and attacks double.
These bonuses do not stack with a Ranger's existing favored enemy bonuses.
From Out of the Wreckage (Ex): A Demolisher automatically succeeds on reflex saves against cave-ins and only takes half damage. They also only take half damage while pinned by rubble. A Demolisher may instinctively goes into the Trance of the Trapped, requiring only 1/10th the normal air. While in this trance they can take no actions. They may leave the trance at will.
A Demolisher may also attempt to escape a cave-in without aid by making 3 consecutive DC 15 Strength checks.
Concussion Resistance (Ex): At fifth level a Demolisher has learned how to toughen and relax himself to take concussive blows from experience with his own explosives. This results in resistance 10 to sonics and force, including explosions. This includes effects like a Concussion Blast or Magic Missile. This resistance increase by 2 per Demolisher level to a maximum of resistance 20 at level ten.
At 8th level a Demolisher gains the Improved Toughness feat.
Ooze Ointment (Ex): At sixth level a Demolisher begins to secrete a residue that react painfully with an ooze's structure, causing a sort of 'bad taste'.
This secretion may be gathered and distilled with a DC 20 alchemy check and used to coat armor or coated on surfaces. An ooze who contacts this secretion must make a Fortitude save (DC equal to craft (alchemy) check) or take 1d4 points of dessication damage and will immediately try to leave the area. If this mixture is poured around the creature it is trapped and remains unmoving. This does not keep it from extending pseudopodia over it to attack those nearby however. The ointment lasts only a day before evaporating. It takes a week to gather the required amount from a single Demolisher.
Tremorsense (Ex): At seventh level a Demolisher has become so wary of cave-ins and sensitive to the stability of his surroundings that he gains an ability akin to tremorsense out to 60 feet in every direction if any of his skin is in contact with the ground, wall, or ceiling, or anything also touching these surfaces, such as a pillar. A Demolisher always knows two rounds before an area is about to collapse, and can sense the beginnings of a natural earthquake up to a day before it occurs.
Expert Demolition (Ex): At eighth level a Demolisher no longer has to make a check to see if he's planted his explosives correctly. He knows 'exactly' where they should be located. He can also detect any weak spot in a surface, and can use only a well swung hammer or pick to collapse a wall or ceiling.
X-ray Vision (Su): At ninth level a Demolisher has magically adapted to his profession and gains the ability to see through up to five feet of stone, one inch of most metals, or 8 feet of wood. Lead and denser metals block all x-ray vision.
Lord of Demolition (Sp): At tenth level a Demolisher has learned the methods to destroy nearly anything he wishes. He may break through even force affects such as a Wall of Force or Force Cage and he ignores enhancement bonuses to weapons and armor. With a common sword, or even his bare hands, he may sunder any item. His attacks ignore armor, and are considered Touch Attacks.
Second, ignoring enhancement bonuses on items seems very random, especially since that hurts him because he ignores all armor anyway, and making all his items mundane is rather negative for a capstone.
Third, normally all attacks being touch attacks would be very broken, but... this class gets literally no other useful class features related to actually fighting, on a poor fighting chassis.
As well, he no longer needs tools or explosives. With a touch here, a rap there and a careful vibration of voice he achieves his goal without additional help.
Doors act as if affected by Knock, except instead of simply unlocking they are wrecked from their hinges, cracked open, or in some way destroyed without the need for a Strength check.
Explosives are volatile substances that react in various ways under certain circumstances. Once an explosion occurs the substance is immediately consumed. An explosion affects an area of 10 feet for every 2d6 damage the explosion would deal.
Code:Name Craft DC Damage Area Detonation Method/Time Weight Cost Price Augreen 24 4d6 force 20 ft. Concussion 1 lbs. 50 gp 100 gp Gun Powder 16 2d6 force 10 ft. Fire/1d6 rounds 1 lbs. 9 gp 18 gp Picric 28 8d6 force 40 ft. Fire or Concussion/Immediate 1/2 lbs. 100 gp 200 gp Undying Fire 22 1d6 fire 10 ft. Fire or Concussion/Immediate 1 lbs. 20 gp 40 gp
Augreen is a lumpy, clay-like substance. You can throw it as a ranged attack with a range increment of 20 feet. When it strikes a hard surface (or is struck hard), it deals 4d6 points of force damage.
Undying Fire
Undying fire is a dark, viscous liquid that is alike to alchemist's fire except that it burns for 3d6 rounds and water does not put it out. Undying fire can be put by complete smothering of the flame.
Gun Powder
Gun powder is a dark, powdery substance that deals 4d6 force damage.
Picric
Is a highly volatile dark yellow crystalline substance that if set near fire, or so much as dropped explodes. A being who uses the run action or undergoes any sudden movements, such as fighting, attempting a reflex save, throwing the mixture or the like risks setting it off. Each round this occurs they must roll a 1d20. On a roll of 1 the substance explodes.
I just don't get this class. It's not good, at all, for anything related to combat, and destroying objects is a very specific ability that is, in general, very irrelevant to most campaigns. Nearly none of the abilities actually deal with combat, which makes this class, overall, terrible. It doesn't help that it's a level 5 entry PrC based entirely around doing a completely mundane task, when in D&D level 5 is near legendary heroes level. Anything this class can do, an equal level caster with Wings of Flurry can do better, and once they get disintegrate, this class is completely redundant, and I'm not talking about the typical "melee isn't useful against opti-casters" redundancy, I'm talking about the fact it gives up being good at combat in general to be worse at a utility feature than casters and, hell, even very powerful barbarians with adamantine weapons.
Plus, the entry requirements make no sense. Power attack on a class with bad BAB that doesn't attack anything?Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-06-24 at 11:34 PM.
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2010-06-25, 12:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
*cracks knuckles*
What action does this take? How does this work; can you remove anything? There are rules for objects, you know, and if this automatically blows up anything with no limits with a simple knowledge check, the first thing this class would do is blow up the earth.
No reflex save? Also, what if you're blowing something up outside; does the entire earth collapse into a small 20X20 square?
What action is required for this, again?
Again, you can just hit things to get this. The same actually goes for your original class feature; Disintegrate is a lot easier than trying to figure out what limits, if any, you intended for your "blow stuff up" ability.
Well, for sunder monkeys this is OK, but sundering isn't all that great to begin with. This is the first ability with actual combat potential, though.
Well, that's useful for positioning, but this class is looking very mechanically weak so far.
I disagree.
Word it as sonic and force damage; sonics and force just sounds weird. Anyway, I don't get why this gives you resistance to force, which is basically unresistable damage, but not bludgeoning, which actually causes concussions. (Note: force damage does plenty of things; cuts you open with wings, bites you with jaws of force, stabs you with arrows of force, hits you with missiles of force, etc. It's not just force as in "I bash stuff.")
Well, DC = to a skill check is an absurdly high DC, which is pretty bad, but... it's a horribly low damage. And it's *really* creepy that you're basically killing oozes with your own sweat. It also makes no sense how a bottle lasts a day, but it takes a week to collect it... the first through sixth days would have been gone by then, and that kind of fluff restriction just doesn't make sense.
The bottle doesn't last a day, btw. Just its application. It can last indefinitely 'inside' the bottle.
Does this allow him to know in what way he's screwed up planting explosives? Also, future sight abilities are very horrible ideas because that strongly limits the actions you can take; if he doesn't sense earthquakes, you can't have a spellcaster use earthquake, you can't use cave in traps because he will know whether he succeeds or fails his save to avoid triggering it, but then won't activate it if it's going to be a yes anyway because he'll be backing away, etc.
#1. It says specifically NATURAL earthquakes.
#2. It isn't future sight. Its detecting the natural subharmonics of impending mantle shift. Animals also are sensitive to it.
Meh. One square of wood or stone isn't a great thing to see through, except in buildings.
First off, it was never stated he couldn't destroy objects of force to begin with.
Third, normally all attacks being touch attacks would be very broken, but...
Nearly none of the abilities actually deal with combat
#1. Great for sunder monkeys as you mentioned. Sunder is better than you give credit for.
#2. Can craft explosives that deal more damage for far cheaper than any other item you can buy at levels you cannot duplicate with magic. Being completely mundane, these explosions bypass spell resistance, anti-magic fields, and most damage reduction. You can set up as many as you want, and detonate all at the same time, something you cannot do with spells. Sure, at 11th level you can cast disintegrate, what, twice per day? Demolisher can take your disintegrate and bottle it, hide it, apply it, multiply it and delay it.
#3. Burrow is great for surprising enemies. Burrow right underneath them, or sneak into buildings.
#4. One of the big creatures of the terrain where this fellow shines not only shuns the Demolisher, but he can herd it, trap it and basically tame it.
#5. Sonic and force resistance. This is helpful.
#6. With tremorsense you can't be snuck up on or flanked. It's basically all-around vision.
#7. X-ray Vision: See above mention of X-ray vision.
#8. As you said, treating all attacks as touch attacks is very handy.
Al this is usable in battle and this class isn't even intended to be battle hardened.
Plus, the entry requirements make no sense. Power attack on a class with bad BAB that doesn't attack anything?
#2. Since when was 3/4ths attack 'Bad'?
I'm always glad to have folks go over my stuff, but you seemed to have read it solely to destroy it and didn't notice 'any' good bits, of which this has quite a few. I could start half a dozen threads, each one for individual unique abilities granted here and a hundred uses I'm sure would be thought up for each one.
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2010-06-25, 01:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
I noticed them. Putting them next to the actual class would be useful. You still didn't post relative to any of my concerns about how it works if you aren't in a room.
See rules for Cave-Ins.
See Listen skill.
Yes, at 11th level you can use a spell that you can do at 6th level with this ability as many times per day as you have explosives.
You... get it 2nd level.
d12 HD, 6 + Int skills, two good saves, cleric BAB, can duplicate a spell your wizard can't learn for 3 more levels, can sunder anything.
I disagree.
None of this is powerful. Defensively, it's got a decent chassis, but it can't do anything with it.
Telekinesis, concussive forces, shock waves and force fields are all lumped together in D&D. Can't help it. The ability to withstand shocks sounds much more like force than bludgeoning however.
It isn't meant to harm them so much as to make you immune to oozes. They won't willingly touch you.
The bottle doesn't last a day, btw. Just its application. It can last indefinitely 'inside' the bottle.
Geeze...
#1. It says specifically NATURAL earthquakes.
#2. It isn't future sight. Its detecting the natural subharmonics of impending mantle shift. Animals also are sensitive to it.
I think you need to use your imagination a little. How about, for starters, negating concealment?
Nor did it say he couldn't leaps buildings in a single bound, but normal people can't destroy force without other force spells.
Deep Impact feat at 5th level.
Did I say this was a class designed for battle? No, I did not
#1. Great for sunder monkeys as you mentioned. Sunder is better than you give credit for.
#2. Can craft explosives that deal more damage for far cheaper than any other item you can buy at levels you cannot duplicate with magic.
Being completely mundane, these explosions bypass spell resistance, anti-magic fields, and most damage reduction.
Which is somewhat useful, and offset by the fact You can set up as many as you want, and detonate all at the same time, something you cannot do with spells.
Sure, at 11th level you can cast disintegrate, what, twice per day? Demolisher can take your disintegrate and bottle it, hide it, apply it, multiply it and delay it.
Plus, two disintegrates a day? Guess what? You can make, by RAW with the craft skill, one batch of explosives *per week.* And the explosives penetrate all of 1.5 inches of rock! Even further, one per week would require you to have a craft check of 72!
#3. Burrow is great for surprising enemies. Burrow right underneath them, or sneak into buildings.
#4. One of the big creatures of the terrain where this fellow shines not only shuns the Demolisher, but he can herd it, trap it and basically tame it.
#5. Sonic and force resistance. This is helpful.
#6. With tremorsense you can't be snuck up on or flanked. It's basically all-around vision.
#7. X-ray Vision: See above mention of X-ray vision.
#8. As you said, treating all attacks as touch attacks is very handy.
Al this is usable in battle and this class isn't even intended to be battle hardened.
#1. Except that he DOES attack everything. This includes walls, items and the like. Also, it's the prerequisite for Improved Sunder. Thirdly, did I mention that this fellow here hits things to destroy them for a living?
#2. Since when was 3/4ths attack 'Bad'?
I'm always glad to have folks go over my stuff, but you seemed to have read it solely to destroy it and didn't notice 'any' good bits, of which this has quite a few. I could start half a dozen threads, each one for individual unique abilities granted here and a hundred uses I'm sure would be thought up for each one.
Second of all: Even if all your abilities have unique uses, they're still mechanically inferior to what other classes can do (and, in fact, what this class can do; it's better to just hit stuff than to use your explosives, even with your mediocre ability to hit things before you get the capstone), take massive amounts of downtime to make (for the best explosive, with a check of forty, you need two weeks per batch of 8d6 explosive).
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2010-06-25, 01:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
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2010-06-25, 01:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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2010-06-25, 01:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
{Scrubbed}
Last edited by Roland St. Jude; 2010-06-25 at 09:21 AM.
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2010-06-25, 01:39 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Well this has the chances of getting horribly more hostile than it already is *runs*
lol that being said:
The sweat creeped me out.
Also, if this was designed for a particular campaign (underground say) the class would be extremely useful (Imagine underdark) good times to be had.
This being the case though I do see the point Mik is making. There's almost no combat potential and almost all D and D is combat. The bits that aren't lead to combat. Don't take it too harshly, they're just offering opinions. You don't even have to listen :-)
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2010-06-25, 02:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Seems like something great for an NPC a party could hire to help blow something up. For PC use though, since it is rather reliant on the explosives, it might be an idea to give it a "fast craft" ability that allows members of this PrC to craft explosives and alchemic substances 10 times faster than normal. And maybe make it so for every 5 points they increase the Craft check, they can add 1d6 to the damage the explosive deals.
Myself, I love seeing PrCs that don't necessarily deal with combat. You take PrCs to get something special, and that's it. I once made a detective PrC and it had very little in the way of combat at all, besides nullifying the penalties on improvised weapons.Last edited by Morph Bark; 2010-06-25 at 02:35 AM.
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2010-06-25, 03:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Honestly, it needs a lot more support in terms of more and better explosives, a fast craft mechanism, and a way of delivering the explosives reliably at range. More than that, I think that it would be fair to say I agree in bulk with Mil's comments. As it sits, this is not a class that I would let into my games.
But it could become one.Last edited by Doc Roc; 2010-06-25 at 03:37 AM.
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2010-07-01, 02:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Well, I had written up a big long post refuting much of this with examples... and then the storm took the power out.
So... never mind. I rehauled the explosion system to be much more flexible and added a few things.
Edit: Don't worry folks, I'll debate and argue but I won't bite.
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2010-07-01, 02:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Did you just delete your post to repost as a bump? Your post certainly has no edit tag at the bottom.
Anyway, it looks a lot better now, since it can actually attack with its explosives pretty well.
My only comments are that it gets the disintegrate a little bit early (which is well and good since it's your primary feature), and that there is no specification on the range.
That, and that if disintegrate acts as a line, it's much, much more powerful than a standard disintegrate, since it can effectively hit multiple creatures. Anyway, is the disintegrate explosive affected by SR (I'd assume no), and how is the caster level determined? It's a pretty powerful feature since you could detonate as a standard (to set) plus a free action (to drop it), though I'm not sure if that's what you intended.Last edited by Milskidasith; 2010-07-01 at 02:41 PM.
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2010-07-01, 03:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Instead of posting a second post I just add both together. It wasn't a bump. Why?
Not sure where that went. Added range specifics. Also, disintegrate was meant to be a ray.
Anyway, is the disintegrate explosive affected by SR (I'd assume no)
It's a pretty powerful feature since you could detonate as a standard (to set) plus a free action (to drop it), though I'm not sure if that's what you intended.
Maybe I'm not understanding the question?Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-07-01 at 03:46 PM.
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2010-07-01, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
To set it is a standard action, but if you drop it, and it's a shock triggered explosive, you're now in the middle of the blast. You don't take as much damage, but you're not immune either.
Maybe I'm not understanding the question?
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2010-07-01, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-07-01 at 04:07 PM.
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2010-07-02, 12:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Interestingly enough, my current entry in the Base Class Challenge has the same name, though different mechanics and flavour.
It's certainly an interesting class and it's nice to have mundane explosives. I must admit that I don't quite get the relationship with oozes, but ok.The Good Cat Mistress shall show mercy to her servants
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2010-07-02, 01:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
It's the one creature type limited almost exclusively to subterranean terrains, which is where the demolisher tends to hang out.
Also, since they tend to absorb all things, and the Demolisher, no matter how well he bathes, will always be absorbing low levels of strange chemicals, not to mention breathing and ingesting them. By 6th level I'm saying he's absorbed so much, oozes can't stand them.
I'm considering however enhancing this so that any creature who tries to swallow them has a chance of regurgitating them and becoming nauseous.
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2010-07-02, 04:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
I am the sort of a person who cares a lot more about flavour than the stats, so here's my nitpick:
The 'destructive brew' seems to be the core ability of the character, but one gains that from taking only one level of the class. I would opt for a list of successively more complex, powerful and varied explosives, which are learned much like magical spells, except obviously used and prepared as alchemical concoctions instead of magic. Also, to mention mechanics, I too have seen explosives' concussive force explained as crushing damage.
'Tapper' should only instantly tell if small spaces are empty or not - telling what's behind a door, if the answer is a large hall, should only mention a large hall - hearing about the existence of any denizens of large spaces from a simple tap makes no sense.
'Acidic mixture' has a poor name. It is a bonus to alchemy, not a new chemical brew. Perhaps 'Skill with acid' or 'Acid Mastery'.
Concussion Resistance... Well, sonic and force resistance certainly are rare, though I still say force is not concussive. I would split this up into two, possibly with a resistance of 5 at an earlier level, maybe pushing another ability to a later level to prevent making some extra juicy levels to grab of this prestige class.
Ooze ointment... I would prefer if this was another form of chemical. However, your explanation offered later - having come into contact with so many chemicals that the character simply is disgusting, is interesting. I propose the following: If a character has not bathed for N days (probably 3 or 4, maybe [n-demolisher level] while actively working on one's potions, one gains the advantage not as sweat, but as chemical residue on his skin and clothes. It cannot be bottled, but in addition to desiccating oozes, it will also lead to the suggested 'nauseating non-abominations who try to eat one'. However, it will also grant the character and possibly, if this ability has been 'on' for several days, the character's allies if one is close by, a noticeable penalty to most charisma-based checks.
X-ray vision is the thing I have the most problems with. A clearly magical ability for an otherwise mundane class, simply out of the blue? I would probably not allow this class in a game I am running based on this inconsistency alone, even though I feel that it actually fills a gap among class abilities, unlike many other player-made prestige classes.
Expert Demolition and Demolition Master seem too powerful to me, fluff-wise. The latter allows some bloke to break through an adamantium-reinforced stone wall made by greatly skilled dwarven craftsmen by knocking really well. It sounds like a shoddy attempt to make a 'memetic badass'. Also, there's a huge difference between comprehending the weak points of a wall and finding a way to overcome a demon's natural armour.
I propose toning those two abilities down a bit, but in exchange adding plenty of anti-construct abilities to the character's repertoire, since those would make perfect sense for a character built around the concept of destroying objects to go where he wants to.
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2010-07-07, 11:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
I suppose that could work, though as stated before, most of them would become worthless to a simple use of disintegrate. That's why I went from writing up explosives to making a generic ability to craft them.
I was hoping the rest of the benefits granted by this class would make it tasty enough to keep from dipping.
You have a point, but I'm thinking something last drastic and more useful to keep others from dipping.
Also, to mention mechanics, I too have seen explosives' concussive force explained as crushing damage.
'Tapper' should only instantly tell if small spaces are empty or not - telling what's behind a door, if the answer is a large hall, should only mention a large hall - hearing about the existence of any denizens of large spaces from a simple tap makes no sense.
Ooze ointment... I would prefer if this was another form of chemical. However, your explanation offered later - having come into contact with so many chemicals that the character simply is disgusting, is interesting. I propose the following: If a character has not bathed for N days (probably 3 or 4, maybe [n-demolisher level] while actively working on one's potions, one gains the advantage not as sweat, but as chemical residue on his skin and clothes.
X-ray vision is the thing I have the most problems with. A clearly magical ability for an otherwise mundane class, simply out of the blue? I would probably not allow this class in a game I am running based on this inconsistency alone, even though I feel that it actually fills a gap among class abilities, unlike many other player-made prestige classes.
Expert Demolition and Demolition Master seem too powerful to me, fluff-wise. The latter allows some bloke to break through an adamantium-reinforced stone wall made by greatly skilled dwarven craftsmen by knocking really well.
Demolition master, well, perhaps he is strong, but the fluff can always be tweaked for your campaign.
Also, there's a huge difference between comprehending the weak points of a wall and finding a way to overcome a demon's natural armour.
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2010-07-07, 01:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
So? The class describes a person who has incredible aptitude to structural engineering and chemistry, by virtue of which he or she can bring down buildings. Having similar knowledge regarding the biology of various types of being, including even outsiders, is very far fetched. Surely you do not think that all engineers and architects in the real world have an acute knowledge of the pressure points of a human body?
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2010-07-14, 03:08 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Given how the number of times a chemist's abilities can be used is limited only by availability of components and the time it takes to concoct new brews, while a wizard or sorcerer can only disintegrate things a couple of times per day, I would not consider this that big a drawback.
The fact that echolocation is a real and known thing does not mean that one can learn perfect echolocation just like this. It would probably be better fluff-wise and possibly in terms of balance as well if it would have an upper limit to how much space this ability can show to be empty or not.
So? The class describes a person who has incredible aptitude to structural engineering and chemistry, by virtue of which he or she can bring down buildings. Having similar knowledge regarding the biology of various types of being, including even outsiders, is very far fetched. Surely you do not think that all engineers and architects in the real world have an acute knowledge of the pressure points of a human body?
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2010-07-14, 05:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
This class needs one more feature: Proficiency and eventually bonuses with all picks.
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2010-07-14, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-07-14 at 05:05 PM.
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2010-07-14, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: [PrC] For the ultimate 'kick in the door' style play
Given how the number of times a chemist's abilities can be used is limited only by availability of components and the time it takes to concoct new brews, while a wizard or sorcerer can only disintegrate things a couple of times per day, I would not consider this that big a drawback.[Public Service Announcement]P.E.A.C.H stands for Please Examine And Critique Honestly[/Public Service Announcement]
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