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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Akal Saris's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Bah, Green Star Adept. It looks like we have enough judges already, so I'll compete this go around. No promises though, I've never liked this PrC very much.
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  2. - Top - End - #32
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    OK, so I'll use that. 10 CLs total is fine, I just like arguing as a way to vent

    Makes me wonder what benefits I actually get from the class, but that's ok. I suppose I can do those two, though they're a bit limited.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    I really hate the +4 BAB requirement. My perfect build is still off by +1

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    Private-Prinny's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    EDIT: Forget it. There is an example within the very text of the ability that disallows it. I believe PrivatePrinny catched onto this before me. Can't believe no one ever mentioned this on the CharOp board back in the day... Probably because of the RAWxRAI debate always going on there, but the RAI is so clear here with even an example to go with that RAW is completly irrelevant.
    I did catch that before I posted my response, and since text>all except errata, I made the choice that I did, with it being RAW and all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Speaking of being leery, call my 'once bitten, twice shy' for asking: Are there any specific books that, while legal, are likely to cause any of our illustrious judges to downgrade our scores?
    Dragon Compendium springs to mind, as well as the more broken things in Savage Species. I also wouldn't blame them for marking down mixing campaign settings i.e. FR and Eberron material in the same build.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  5. - Top - End - #35
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    I'll be a contestant on this one. I've got two different ideas for this build, both entirely legal, both rather interesting and useful. One is slightly more complicated than the other, but judging the previous competition showed me something about 1/2 casting progression classes that is... interesting.

    also interesting to note, if you don't wish to become a construct, loose all your Con score, and all associated issues with the final level, there is a simple solution: Starmetal Dependency. You simply decline to undergo the final ritual, and you don't get the special abilities of the final level, although you still get BAB/Saves/HP/etc...

    However, what this will do to both your elegance and Use of Secret Ingredient scores is on your head.
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  6. - Top - End - #36
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Gah. I keep looking at builds and wondering why someone wouldn't roll up a Warforged to do at least 3/4 of what they picked a GSA for...
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV.

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  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Heliomance's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Why is it that I keep getting cool ideas that won't work mechanically? Renegade Mastermaker will not work with GSA, certainly not without becoming the focus of the build!
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    I maintain that until I see a movie trailer where Patrick Stewart introduces himself as Mordenkainen, there never was and never will be a D&D movie.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    *.*.*.*'s Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Quick Question(not relating to the contest really): How does GSA work with the Ardent?

  9. - Top - End - #39
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Quote Originally Posted by *.*.*.* View Post
    Quick Question(not relating to the contest really): How does GSA work with the Ardent?
    Unless your DM rules that psionic/magic transparency also applies to caster/manifester levels, I don't think it works particularly well at all.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV.

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  10. - Top - End - #40
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    *.*.*.*'s Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Unless your DM rules that psionic/magic transparency also applies to caster/manifester levels, I don't think it works particularly well at all.
    Fair enough, I've seen that whole manifester=caster thing used before. Thanks for the speedy answer

  11. - Top - End - #41
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    Chineselegolas's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    I'm back as a competitor having missed the last Iron Chef being busy with exams.

    Will be interesting considering I like to play beat-sticks or gishes, so this could be down my alley... Though I do agree, is a terrible class. Ah well, got some possibly ideas up my sleeve which might work...
    Still here, just a little busy to social post

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  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Private-Prinny's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Just got the first submission in. I honestly expected another couple of days before that happened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  13. - Top - End - #43
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    Just got the first submission in. I honestly expected another couple of days before that happened.
    All your fault: you've announced it too much in advance (it wouldn't be such a big deal, it is just for kidding).

    To all the others. Try not to ask too much and not cooperate too much. With all the chit-chat, I fear that something I considered original wouldn't be so, in the end.

  14. - Top - End - #44
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Ingus View Post
    To all the others. Try not to ask too much and not cooperate too much. With all the chit-chat, I fear that something I considered original wouldn't be so, in the end.
    ^This is correct. That's part of why speculation is against the rules of the competition. Unfortunately, there's pretty much no way to actually enforce it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  15. - Top - End - #45
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    By the by, due to the nature of GSA and it's Capstone, I will NOT be marking down on Elegance/Use of GSA if you take only 9 levels. Now, if you take 10 levels and surprise me, you'll get a higher score, but I am not penalizing specifically for taking 9 levels.

    Thought it was fair in this circumstance, seeing as how level 10 of GSA is just HORRIFICALLY BAD and ruins characters.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    Mushroom Ninja's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Sounds like torture fun. I'll try to get something up.

  17. - Top - End - #47
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    GnomeWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    I'm of a similar mind-- I usually score the same for 9/10 and 10/10 anyways. If however, you have a strong use of the capstone (something I don't expect a strong use for) you'll probably be scored up for it.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    The Vorpal Tribble's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    I'll be the first to admit this class isn't the strongest, but c'mon folks, the flavor of the thing is awesome and makes for a great story. I like the class
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-07-04 at 01:38 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    SlyGuyMcFly's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    Gah. I keep looking at builds and wondering why someone wouldn't roll up a Warforged to do at least 3/4 of what they picked a GSA for...
    Warforged GSA?

    No, I have no idea if that's even allowed
    Truth resists simplicity.

  20. - Top - End - #50
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Heliomance's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    As far as I can tell it there's nothing against it, but the GSA capstone specifically calls out all the things you lose - like your con score - so you'd lose all the benefits of being a warforged anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotel_papa View Post
    I maintain that until I see a movie trailer where Patrick Stewart introduces himself as Mordenkainen, there never was and never will be a D&D movie.
    Quote Originally Posted by dixieboy View Post
    I am unable to respond due to the awesomness of seducing a god, sorry
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalirren View Post
    The only person in the past two pages who has known what (s)he has been talking about is Heliomance.

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  21. - Top - End - #51
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    I would very much like to be a contestant for this Iron Chef. It'll be my first time, so I'm totally ignorant of submission method. I already have a skeleton of the build done, so it should be complete in a couple days.
    My 3.5 Wealth Tool. Currently, this is its only public discussion.
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  22. - Top - End - #52
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    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    I'm competing. I already have the entire build, including skills and spell list done. Just adding in my thesis on synergy and level break analysis. Yay!
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  23. - Top - End - #53
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Random topic of judging, I've been seeing this a lot in previous competitions:

    Quote Originally Posted by Akal Saris View Post
    Originality: 3. Itís an unexpected build, but Iíve seen shock trooper/tripping builds so often that I sometimes forget there are melees out there who donít take that path.
    Not meaning any offense to Mr. Saris at all, but it bothers me that judges count off points because someone gets reach and Improved Trip. To me, this is like a Wizard preparing Fly. Why wouldn't you use the staples of being effective? This is particularly bad because, unless you're initiating maneuvers, melee combat really doesn't have many options while mages have thousands of spells to choose from. I feel like any build with a good UMD check deserves more points off than this.

    I don't really know what I'm wanting by pointing this out. Is this something we can ease up on in future competitions? Is this something that should be looked at insofar as judging criteria? Is there a good counterpoint as to why these methods should be penalized?
    Last edited by Pechvarry; 2010-07-04 at 05:03 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Pechvarry View Post

    Not meaning any offense to Mr. Saris at all, but it bothers me that judges count off points because someone gets reach and Improved Trip. To me, this is like a Wizard preparing Fly. Why wouldn't you use the staples of being effective? This is particularly bad because, unless you're initiating maneuvers, melee combat really doesn't have many options while mages have thousands of spells to choose from. I feel like any build with a good UMD check deserves more points off than this.

    I don't really know what I'm wanting by pointing this out. Is this something we can ease up on in future competitions? Is this something that should be looked at insofar as judging criteria? Is there a good counterpoint as to why these methods should be penalized?
    If the best build you can make involves using the staples, then you aren't being very original. The build might be fine in many other respects, but by its very nature the category of originality requires you to blaze your own trail.
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  25. - Top - End - #55
    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Navigator View Post
    I would very much like to be a contestant for this Iron Chef. It'll be my first time, so I'm totally ignorant of submission method. I already have a skeleton of the build done, so it should be complete in a couple days.
    The introduction to this thread has a recap of all the former contests. You can look at them to inspire yourself on how to post (strongly suggested, also to confront with overall quality).
    If you need some specific help, don't exitate and ask

  26. - Top - End - #56
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Pechvarry View Post
    I don't really know what I'm wanting by pointing this out. Is this something we can ease up on in future competitions? Is this something that should be looked at insofar as judging criteria? Is there a good counterpoint as to why these methods should be penalized?
    No, we shouldn't stop low-scoring that. See, I've nothing against the originals, the basics, the old standbys. To use the cooking analogy, they're the famous basic flavors, cumin and thyme and paprika, the good old boys, the standards. This isn't about them, though.

    This is about ORIGINALITY. If the best thing you can serve me is the old standbys, well, it'll taste ok, but it's not ORIGINAL. Instead of mustard, make me a dressing out of pine nuts (had this IRL, was amazing), make me a spicy and tart ketchup out of orange tomatoes, make me something fresh and NEW. Even if it's risky, well, try it! I'll score you high in originality, and hey, it might come out well.

  27. - Top - End - #57
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    Instead of mustard, make me a dressing out of pine nuts (had this IRL, was amazing), make me a spicy and tart ketchup out of orange tomatoes, make me something fresh and NEW. Even if it's risky, well, try it! I'll score you high in originality, and hey, it might come out well.
    The trouble with GSA is it has as much spice as plain tofu...
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV.

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  28. - Top - End - #58
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    IMHO, there are three useful abilities you can wring unique tricks out of. One of them is minor, and the other two are potentially incredible but unlikely to fly, since they rely on specific readings, and/or are well known cheese, and thus unoriginal.

    AHA. Found a good one Makes it all worthwhile. Aaaand fails. Curse you, balance!
    Last edited by Arbitrarity; 2010-07-04 at 08:40 PM.

  29. - Top - End - #59
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    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    My entry is submitted. I wonder if anyone else came up with the same devious synergy trick I came up with? In the immortal words of every TV, movie, and comic book BBEG ever...Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholderís favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VII

    Quote Originally Posted by Amphetryon View Post
    The trouble with GSA is it has as much spice as plain tofu...
    ...Tofu is one of the best base foods in existence. The fact that it's bland means that every single thing you add can be tasted with ease. Spice well, gentlemen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    My entry is submitted. I wonder if anyone else came up with the same devious synergy trick I came up with? In the immortal words of every TV, movie, and comic book BBEG ever...Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha hahahahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!
    Power: 0.
    Last edited by arguskos; 2010-07-04 at 08:20 PM.

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