Finding That Perfect Class

[Kobold_Punting]

Now. I know I started something last week.

Now I have a question for me.

I am having trouble finding my niche in the character side. I have played every class in the PHB, Almost every class from Complete Arcane/Warrior, and even delved into Psionics. I tend to favour a heavy magic type, being divine or arcane. But thanks to Veros, I have learned the ins and outs of the amazing power that Clerics hold, I enjoy playing them, just not making it where there is no need for anything else. I'd really like to find a healthy dose of Melee and Magic. I know there's builds out there for that...Just nothing too overpowered/cheese.

I'm facing a dilemma guys:

What class fits my style?

Maybe Veros can answer this. Maybe not.

We often swap who is DM, most times in one night! Just to switch it up and keep it fresh, to be honest I'm now jealous of my players, they have for the most part found their "perfect character" Now it's my turn.

Any tips to figure out which one suits my own personality and playing groove.

I've even taken the silly class tests. Guess what. Cleric 1st, Druid 2nd, Sorcerer 3rd.
And like I've said above: I have been playing around with classes. I want one that I keep, and don't want to lose.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Help?

~Kobold_Punting~

[ToySoldierCPlus]

Sounds to me like you're looking for a gish. The Duskblade from the PHB2 is a gish-in-a-can base class, and you can combine Fighter (or Warblade or something else better than Fighter) with Wizard or Sorcerer and the Eldritch Knight or Abjurant Champion PrC(s) (DMG and CArc, respectively). If you like psionics, you may want to try the Psychic Warrior. Happens to be one of my favorite classes.

[Lord Loss]

Now. I know I started something last week.

Now I have a question for me.

I am having trouble finding my niche in the character side. I have played every class in the PHB, Almost every class from Complete Arcane/Warrior, and even delved into Psionics. I tend to favour a heavy magic type, being divine or arcane. But thanks to Veros, I have learned the ins and outs of the amazing power that Clerics hold, I enjoy playing them, just not making it where there is no need for anything else. I'd really like to find a healthy dose of Melee and Magic. I know there's builds out there for that...Just nothing too overpowered/cheese.

I'm facing a dilemma guys:

What class fits my style?

Maybe Veros can answer this. Maybe not.

We often swap who is DM, most times in one night! Just to switch it up and keep it fresh, to be honest I'm now jealous of my players, they have for the most part found their "perfect character" Now it's my turn.

Any tips to figure out which one suits my own personality and playing groove.

I've even taken the silly class tests. Guess what. Cleric 1st, Druid 2nd, Sorcerer 3rd.
And like I've said above: I have been playing around with classes. I want one that I keep, and don't want to lose.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Help?

~Kobold_Punting~

Duskblade seems like the obvious choice here.

EDIT: Ninja'd!

[ToySoldierCPlus]

Duskblade seems like the obvious choice here.

EDIT: Ninja'd!

EEYES! I finally got to ninja somebody!

[Lord Loss]

EEYES! I finally got to ninja somebody!

Grumbles... .

[erikun]

Cleric/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator, or perhaps Cleric/Prestige Paladin will get you the Melee 'n' Magic mix you crave.

[Thrice Dead Cat]

You could try the Swiftblade. I'm too lazy to link it, but Google will get you there.

[ToySoldierCPlus]

Cleric/Crusader/Ruby Knight Vindicator, or perhaps Cleric/Prestige Paladin will get you the Melee 'n' Magic mix you crave.

And here we see the divine gish. That would also work, especially if you prefer divine magic to arcane.

[Private-Prinny]

You could try the Swiftblade. I'm too lazy to link it, but Google will get you there.

I emphatically agree. Swiftblade is here, by the way.

Levels in Abjurant Champion and a dip in Spellsword are also part of gish 101.

[erikun]

A few more ideas:

Druid/Wizard/Arcane Heirophant with a small race can ride into battle with a severely buffed mount, not to mention a huge spell list.

Wizard/(ToB class)/Jade Phoenix Mage is the arcane version of the Ruby Knight.

You can pull off a Sublime Chord/Jade Phoenix Mage for 9th level spellcasating and high level maneuvers. It requires a very narrow build - Bard 7/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix 1/(Bard or Warblade 1)/Sublime Chord 1/Jade Phoenix 9 - but it is something different to look at. The standard Bard/Warblade with Song of the White Raven is handy for buffing while fighting, although not so much spellcasting.

[EvilJoe15]

The standard Gish is of course the Sorcadin.

In core that's: Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 6 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Archmage 2.

Out of core it's: Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist 8

[Coplantor]

You can add a little rogue to the mix and play a factotum, not quite magic heavy, but gets quite a few spells. Plus, they are awesome.

Though duskblade seems what you want.

[Kobold_Punting]

I did like the duskblade, havent had a chance to really seriously play it yet. I guess in our next session I will roll one again and see.

The sorcadin sounds awesome too.

I'll have to run these by MY dm.

hehe.

thanks guys!

Ill be playing around with some of those when I get home!!

You guys are great help.

[FMArthur]

Play a Chameleon if you have trouble choosing a class. You can be a different one every time you play! Traditional entry via Factotum (Dungeonscape) is recommended; they're both sort of thematically "do anything" classes, but while a Factotum is a generalist with uninterrupted access to smaller bits of each basic role, a Chameleon is more like a specialist who changes specialization, doing a better job at filling one role at a time (and two at later levels). If you really like the idea, I made a base class version of the Chameleon.

[Eldariel]

The standard Gish is of course the Sorcadin.

In core that's: Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 6 / Eldritch Knight 10 / Archmage 2.

Out of core it's: Paladin 2 / Sorcerer 4 / Spellsword 1 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Sacred Exorcist 8

Frankly, in Core I'd stray clear from Sorcadin simply because of how many levels of both, casting and BAB you have to lose to get started. You lose 3 levels of casting and 3 points of BAB really hurting you on both fronts. Wizard tends to be the better option in Core: Fighter (or Ranger) 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10/Archmage -> for example is respectable (feel free to take Wizard 6 for BAB and saves) losing less casting and still being quite alright martially.

[Mr.Moron]

Maybe just straightup swordsage. It doesn't cast spells, but it's melee class with a lot of very "Magic" feeling options.

It's a different system than traditional melee or casting which would give the character a fresh feel. Swordsage 20 is also an uncomplicated build as opposed to a bunch of PrCing which can feel inelegant.

The Duskblade is the obvious more traditional answer, and I'd put a vote behind it as my second choice. The biggest problem is that it has always seemed bland to me. It does a lot of damage but doesn't have any fancy tricks.

[EvilJoe15]

Actually Swordsages, can cast spells. It's a lesser known ACF on the same page as Unarmed Swordsage.

[Mr.Moron]

Actually Swordsages, can cast spells. It's a lesser known ACF on the same page as Unarmed Swordsage.

I wouldn't so much call it a lesser known ACF as a vague suggestion on a way you might adapt the class with different mechanics. Just slapping in the same number of "Spells Known" for "Maneuvers Known" at the same levels results in a mess. An ugly mess.

[Mystic Muse]

Actually Swordsages, can cast spells. It's a lesser known ACF on the same page as Unarmed Swordsage.

Not so much lesser known as considered extremely Borked.

[EvilJoe15]

Whatever it still says spells. And that's enough.

[Wings of Peace]

Out of Order:

Human Paragon 2/Crusader 6/Ur-Priest 2/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/

The real Blackguard.

[Curmudgeon]

Well, you like Clerics. So why not simply play one?

The Cloistered Cleric variant may at first seem like an odd choice, but scholars can study war as well as any other discipline.

Compared to regular Clerics, the Cloistered variant gains the Knowledge domain and more skill points, at the expense of lower BAB and fewer martial proficiencies. You can turn the gains to your advantage, and largely overcome the weaknesses.

BAB is fixed, of course, by Divine Power. So you'll want to rely on magical combat through level 6. Once you can cast 4th level spells you're ready to be both a full spellcaster and melee combatant.

For your low hit points I recommend Vampiric Touch, to grab temporary hit points when you attack an enemy. The Magic domain and a wand will keep you in good shape here.

Clerics have only simple weapon proficiency. While you can address this with racial proficiencies (such as Elf for the longsword), or with the War domain (such as from Laduguer, who has both Magic and War domains, with warhammer as favored weapon), I suggest you not worry about this too much. You can use most one-handed weapons with two hands to get 1½ STR bonus to damage, and better yield from Power Attack. A morningstar and a longsword are pretty much equivalent, after all, and you'll want to be able to keep a hand free for spellcasting.

Now let's talk armor ─ or rather, boosts to AC without armor. There's a nice little wrinkle in the rules that should help you out.

1) Start with the right clothing.

Scholar’s Outfit

Perfect for a scholar, this outfit includes a robe, a belt, a cap, soft shoes, and possibly a cloak.

2) Next, enhance the robe with an armor bonus (up to +8), as per Magic Item Compendium page 234. This works exactly the same as Bracers of Armor; the "Adding/Improving Common Item Effects" table allows armor bonuses in both Arms (bracers) and Body (robe) slots.

3) Next, you can add an armor enhancement bonus on top of the armor bonus if you cast Magic Vestment:

You imbue a suit of armor or a shield with an enhancement bonus of +1 per four caster levels (maximum +5 at 20th level).

An outfit of regular clothing counts as armor that grants no AC bonus for the purpose of this spell.

4) Finally, realize that your armor boost (up to +13 already) isn't from actual armor at all, and thus you can still wear a Monk's Belt to get (1 + WIS bonus) more AC!


OK, that covers the weaknesses. Now let's talk about leveraging the Cloistered Cleric's strengths for melee. The key here is the Knowledge Devotion feat (Complete Champion), which provides bonuses to attack and damage based on your Knowledge checks for various creature types. There are 6 Knowledge skills to cover all the D&D creature types, and a Cloistered Cleric should have enough skill points to maximize all of these. If you make your check before combat starts you can "take 10" and be guaranteed a minimum of +2 to attack and damage vs. everything.

Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell) is an obvious way to leverage your undead turn attempts to boost melee effectiveness, by persisting Divine Power. But you can achieve effectively the same result with a Metamagic Rod of Quicken to let you cast Divine Power at the start of combat without wasting an action. 11,000 gp will get you through three combats daily. That purchase frees up both your feats and undead turn attempts for something else, such as the Travel Devotion feat. With a 12 CHA you'll be able to move your speed as a swift action for 10 consecutive rounds, three times a day. If you don't need the War domain you could go godless or pick a deity with Magic and Travel domains, such as Io or Lirr, and swap Travel for Travel Devotion. Getting where you want to be, and still having a full attack available, is a pretty big boost for a melee combatant.

[Cute_Riolu]

*clears his throat* You could always try the really odd classes out, like Binder, from Tome of Magic and Totemist, from Magic of Incarnum.

[Fouredged Sword]

You would have to do some funnky bonuses to get all of those armor buffs to stack. Out of the box I think they are all the same type, so don't stack. You would have to try to get the DM to let you change the types. Most don't allow that due to the effect you just described. It gets strange. Think about what you could do to a str bonus if every piece of equipment was a +6 Str item of a difrent bonus type.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

You would have to do some funnky bonuses to get all of those armor buffs to stack. Out of the box I think they are all the same type, so don't stack. You would have to try to get the DM to let you change the types. Most don't allow that due to the effect you just described. It gets strange. Think about what you could do to a str bonus if every piece of equipment was a +6 Str item of a difrent bonus type.

Except that non-custom strength-boosting items provide enhancement bonuses exclusively, unless I'm forgetting some exceptions. The only sticking point is the DM allowing the character to use MIC guidelines to enhance his robe with an armor bonus. Even so, that armor bonus gets pretty expensive.

[Cahokia]

*clears his throat* You could always try the really odd classes out, like Binder, from Tome of Magic and Totemist, from Magic of Incarnum.

I'll second Binder. It's easily one of my favorite classes.

[Lord Loss]

Another option Would be Totemist/Barbarian/ Totem Rager PrC (From MoI)

[Morph Bark]

Hm, from what I see, you've played a lot of variety in classes. Yet, I see only warrior types, arcane and divine magic and psionics in there. Ever played a skillmonkey? A spellthief might befit you amazingly.

Otherwise, going out of the way of the earlier suggestions, how about incarnum? If you haven't tried it yet, it might be your stick.

On a third note, with the suggestions of Duskblade and ToB, it makes me wonder how a Duskblade/Warblade/Jade Phoenix Mage would work out...

[thompur]

I'll second Binder. It's easily one of my favorite classes.

I'll third the Binder. Very versatile, and, even if you get a poor pact, loads of fun to play!

[Kobold_Punting]

Out of Order:

Human Paragon 2/Crusader 6/Ur-Priest 2/Ruby Knight Vindicator 10/

The real Blackguard.

Well the problem is after several runs with Vile Darkness... We just don't use it anymore. some of the stuff, kinda bleh to us, and the other stuff: OP'ed as hell.

Thanks tho!