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    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Basically, a challenge to create an optimised, flavourful character, using a "Secret Ingredient" of a particular PrC, different for each contest. You will need to present your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.

    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

    Cooking Time: Contestants will have until Friday, July 23rd to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Private-Prinny. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavour for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic point lost in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.

    Note: After what happened in the last thread, I am going to have to ask the contestants to PM me about any disagreement with the judges. Under no circumstances is a contestant to defend themselves inside the thread, lest the thread come close to being locked again.

    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when anonymising the entries!

    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners.

    So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for about 5 judges and as many contestants as feel like playing!

    This week's Secret Ingredient is...

    The Expanded Psionics Handbook's Pyrokineticist!

    Allez optimiser!

    Judges
    aethernox
    arguskos
    Keld Denar
    Kesnit
    senrath

    Contestants
    Akal Saris
    Amphetryon
    Arbitrarity
    Chineselegolas
    Draz 74
    IdleMuse
    Ingus
    MariettaGecko
    Natael
    okpokalypse
    PId6
    ShneekyTheLost
    Tavar
    the humanity
    true_shinken
    The Vorpal Tribble
    Watchers
    WinWin

    Past Competitions

    Iron Chef I (Entropomancer)
    Iron Chef II (Psibond Agent)
    Iron Chef III (Cancer Mage)
    Iron Chef IV (Stonelord)
    Iron Chef V (War Chanter)
    Iron Chef VI (Master of Masks)
    Iron Chef VII (Green Star Adept)
    Last edited by Private-Prinny; 2010-07-22 at 03:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    I so approve of this choice.

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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Whoa, deja vu?

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Zovc View Post
    Whoa, deja vu?
    Um...bonus points if you use teh Deja Vu power in your build?

    j/k

    As I stated in the last thread, I'm up for judging if you'll have me.

    EDIT:
    My Criteria (mostly copied from aethernox)
    Originality: Does the submission use unexpected sources or material? Does it avoid over-used qualification methods? Does it use the secret ingredient in an unusual or clever way? This section is an amalgam of the build itself and how the build is presented.

    Power: What tier is this build? Does the inclusion of Pyrokineticst actually make this build more powerful? Is the build well-optimized? Are there any noticable saggy spots where the build underperforms? Is the build versatile (able to respond to a variety of challenges, both combat and non-combat), on top of any specialized tricks it may contain.

    Elegance: Does your build progress well? Does it avoid flaws and variant rules (not including published Alt Class Features like Racial Subs)? Do you avoid overly dipping classes like cleric 1 that are obviously for bonus feats/class abilities? Does your build subscribe to various power break points if it doesn't complete a PrC? Do you avoid using Taint and Dark Chaos shuffling? Other judges might, but I have no problem with a player drawing from a multitude of sources. As far as I'm concerned, if material in a source book improves your submission, use it, excluding certain material from books like Savage Species, Ghostwalk, Serpent Kingdoms, and the like, but that's mostly because of the material, not the source that it comes from. This section is the one most effected by your back story and build presentation, but the submission itself is still very important here. PLEASE CITE ALL SOURCES USED!

    Use of Secret Ingredient: How important is the secret ingredient in this build? Would you refer to the build as being A <Secret Ingredient>, or are you just splashing the PrC in there? Does the flavor of the build fit that of the PrC? Do you use the PrC in a clever, synergistic or powerful way? Do the special abilities of the secret ingredient augement or are augemented by other abilities in the build? This section is an amalgam of the build itself and how the build is presented.
    Last edited by Keld Denar; 2010-07-15 at 05:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    AWESOME! Pyrokineticist!
    I'm in as a contestant this time around. Hell yeah! Burn, baby, burn!

    Excellent choice, Prinny!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Pechvarry View Post
    I so approve of this choice.
    Quote Originally Posted by true_shinken View Post
    AWESOME! Pyrokineticist!
    I'm in as a contestant this time around. Hell yeah! Burn, baby, burn!

    Excellent choice, Prinny!
    Glad you like it. After the last one, I figured I'd give you something decently powerful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Whoa, deja vu

    I'm in as a contestant. I could use some practice on my psionics :D

    For those without the XPH, it's part of the online SRD: The Pyrokineticist
    Last edited by Akal Saris; 2010-07-15 at 02:54 PM.
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    [3.5] (New) Master of Shrouds Handbook
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    I would like to judge, if that's possible.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    I would like to participate in this one, but I have a question that apply specifically to this challenge: Can we use this variants ? I think an issue like this hasn't come up in the pas IC challenges....
    Just call me Dusk
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    I would like to participate in this one, but I have a question that apply specifically to this challenge: Can we use this variants ? I think an issue like this hasn't come up in the pas IC challenges....
    I'm going to say no, since refluffing the class that much strays into the realm of homebrew.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Fair enough, I was just checking any way.

    I think I already have the basis for my build....
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    biggrin Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Fair enough, I was just checking any way.

    I think I already have the basis for my build....
    So do I!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    I have a few questions about the class' Fire Lash ability, if it's alright to discuss it. It's vaguely worded and readily open to interpretation, so I think it's important to get a base line of the ability that both the judges and the contestants agree with.

    For example, can you perform iterative attacks with it? Can you wield it in two hands? Do you apply your strength modifier to the attack/damage? Does it grant you a 15 reach, and if so, do you threaten those squares?
    Last edited by aethernox; 2010-07-15 at 03:14 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by aethernox View Post
    I have a few questions about the class' Fire Lash ability, if it's alright to discuss it. It's vaguely worded and readily open to interpretation, so I think it's important to get a base line of the ability that both the judges and the contestants agree with.

    For example, can you perform iterative attacks with it? Can you wield it in two hands? Do you apply your strength modifier to the attack/damage? Does it grant you a 15 reach, and if so, do you threaten those squares?
    If you can do it with a whip, you can do it with the fire lash.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    I also want to ask something about another class feature

    the Weapon Affire
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD entry on Pyrokinetist
    Weapon Afire (Ps)

    At 4th level and higher, a pyrokineticist can activate this ability as a move-equivalent action. Flames that harm neither her nor the weapon engulf one weapon she holds (which can be a projectile such as a stone, bullet, arrow, or bolt). The weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of fire damage on a successful hit. The weapon retains this effect for as long as the pyrokineticist wields it.
    By how I am reading this I could spend two move actions to use this ability on two weapons or more if I can wield more weapons, does that work?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    I'm going to step back and let someone with stronger Opti-fu answer that one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    I also want to ask something about another class feature

    the Weapon Affire


    By how I am reading this I could spend two move actions to use this ability on two weapons or more if I can wield more weapons, does that work?
    Since nothing says you can't, I believe it works.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    By how I am reading this I could spend two move actions to use this ability on two weapons or more if I can wield more weapons, does that work?
    I don't see why not. I doubt you could use it on the same weapon twice, but I see nothing that would imply that you can't do this to two weapons.

    How does this interact with the PK's signature whip? O.o

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Yes, you coat your weapon of flame in flame, and you can coat several weapons in flame for as long as you continually wield them all.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Zovc View Post
    I
    How does this interact with the PK's signature whip? O.o
    The pyrokinetist in a game I play in, use greater hand affire on hiw whip all the time, and I think that the RAI were to stack those two abilites
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Juuuuuuudge! I'm down for the judging, as I always am (you should just put me down when you make the first post).

    Also, because of how last contest went down, I have a request for my fellow judges that I think will help a great deal. I am going to post my general guidelines for how I look at each category, and ask Prinny if he'll link this post in the OP under my name as a judge. It might be wise if all of the judges do this, so that contestants know the gist of things. Of course, it's each judge's call.

    My criteria:
    Originality: Does this entry use a well known trick or abuse of the PrC in question? Does this entry present a new take on the PrC in question?

    Power: Can this entry combat a Wizard 20 on equal footing? Can it combat a Bard 20? Can it combat a Fighter 20? Can it combat a Monk 20?

    Elegance: This is the most controversial of all the categories. My read "elegance" as meaning that the build is highly synergistic while avoiding extreme cheese. Your build should strike a balance between power, appearance, and getting the most out of the PrC. This is where I will rate your "presentation", which is the story of your entry, your source list, and all the other trappings of the entry. I won't rate down for any one of these, but taken together, if they don't impress, you might take a hit here.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: Do you play to the strengths of the PrC? Do you make it really feel like this build is a <PrC Name> and not Generic Fighter #5 or whatever?
    Last edited by arguskos; 2010-07-15 at 03:40 PM.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    I'm gonna whip you with my flaming whip of fire. Oh, and see those flames, the ones there on the whip made of fire? They are ALSO ON FIRE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
    A beholder’s favorite foods include small live mammals, exotic mushrooms and other fungi, gnomes, beef, pork, colorful leafy vegetables, leaves, flower petals, insects, and birds.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Keld Denar View Post
    I'm gonna whip you with my flaming whip of fire. Oh, and see those flames, the ones there on the whip made of fire? They are ALSO ON FIRE!
    I love it when fire is on fire.
    Quote Originally Posted by arguskos View Post
    I am going to post my general guidelines for how I look at each category, and ask Prinny if he'll link this post in the OP under my name as a judge. It might be wise if all of the judges do this, so that contestants know the gist of things. Of course, it's each judge's call.
    Done and done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    Done and done.
    Much appreciated. I feel that such is a good compromise, after last contest.

    The judges are very clear about how they judge, and in return, aren't second-guessed and debated endlessly. Everyone wins.

    All that I say applies only to myself. You author your own actions and choices. I cannot and will not be responsible for you, nor are you for me, regardless of situation or circumstance.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    I'd be willing to judge, if that's alright.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Man, my first instinct was to check if a fire elemental would work for this. Sadly, there's not much synergy =/
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    Thanks to Strategos and Jumilk for the awesome Iron Chef trophies!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    For reference,
    My criteria:
    Originality: Does the submission use unexpected sources or material? Does it avoid over-used qualification methods? Does it use Pyrokineticist in an unusual or clever way? This section is an amalgam of the build itself and how the build is presented.

    Power: What tier is this build? Does the inclusion of Pyrokineticst actually make this build more powerful? Is the build well-optimized? This is probably the most straight-forward part of the rating. This section is where most of the points from the build itself come from.

    Elegance: Does your build progress well? Does it avoid flaws and variant rules? Do you avoid overly dipping classes like cleric 1 that are obviously for bonus feats/class abilities? Do you avoid using material from multiple campaign settings simultaneously? Do you avoid using Taint and Dark Chaos shuffling? Other judges might, but I have no problem with a player drawing from a multitude of sources as long as there's no conflicting material presented. As far as I'm concerned, if material in a source book improves your submission, use it, excluding certain material from books like Savage Species, Ghostwalk, Serpent Kingdoms, and the like, but that's mostly because of the material, not the source that it comes from. This section is the one most effected by your back story and build presentation, but the submission itself is still very important here.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: How important is Pyrokineticist in this build? Would you refer to the build as being a Pyrokineticist, or are you just splashing the PrC in there? Does the flavor of the build fit that of the PrC? Do you use the PrC in a clever, synergistic or powerful way? This section is an amalgam of the build itself and how the build is presented.
    Last edited by aethernox; 2010-07-15 at 04:06 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Pyrokineticist? Schweeeet
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-07-15 at 04:33 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    Also, a general outline of my judging criteria:
    Originality: Is it a combination that I've seen before? And are any of the classes used effectively in a manor that seems to run contrary to their "intended" purpose? Are you using the Pyrokineticist in a manor that none of the other competitors thought of?

    Power: How well can it stand up in combat? Also, can it do anything outside of combat? I'm placing much more emphasis on combat abilities, but if a build can be effective both on and off the battlefield, it'll get more points than a build that's only effective on the battlefield (unless said build carries a lot more of a punch).

    Elegance: How well do all the classes in the build work together? Do they fit thematically as well as mechanically? Also, how much of each class is used? A build comprised entirely of single level dips won't do nearly as well as a build using only a few classes (barring exceptional circumstances). A few dips are fine, but I'd prefer, say, steak and potatoes over a dish that has half-a-dozen exotic ingredients that compete for the spotlight. Also, while multiclass penalties are assumed to be in use, I don't particularly care. You won't get points off from me for a build that suffers from the penalties.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: Does the build really "scream" Pyrokineticist? Does the build really require the Pyrokineticist, or could it use another class with minimal modifications and work pretty much the same?
    Last edited by senrath; 2010-07-16 at 09:57 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by SkyBoundFencer
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge VIII

    I'll participate as a contestant if Prinny will have me.
    Iron Chef in the Playground veteran since Round IV.

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