Drowtales: The Info Dump

[Miklus]

I just finished re-reading this, and I have a few questions. And forgive me for misspelling all of the complicated names.

1) How did Snadyn manage to talk her sisters into overthrowing dear old mom. I mean, Swarti i suppose wanted power, but Zalas doesn't seem to benefit. I mean, this is a bit of a side effect of the fact that we haven't seen their childhood
2) If Diva was so anti tainting and anit Nether arts, how was Snadyn able to talk her sisters into accepting the tainting. From what we see in the prologue, none of Sharen forces seem to be like "hey we are fighting a Ver'Drowendar army, isn't it a bit weird that a large chunk of the Sharen forces are lead by tainted." And wouldn't more sharen be like "hey we just defeated Nether forces, why are we all getting tainted again?"

I'm a big confused on how the events leading up to the revolution really happen.

I think the big problem was that Diva was overcontrolling and the three sisters hated her for it. Diva saw (correctly) that Snad was unfit to rule and wanted to take Snads babies away from her. Perhaps that was why Snad never had babies or maybe her tainting made her sterile. I belive Khaless, Snads twin protector was the first to be tainted by accident. The others became tainted in order to become strong enough to kill Diva. Diva was scary stong, almost god-like in power level.

After the Nid war, it was clear to all that tainting was a nessecary part of modern warfare. Kind of like vaccinating the troops against a bio-weapon. Most did it to protect themselves and their children. The vaccine works OK for most people, but Snad gave some select people bad taints...mainly out of sheer spite.

My opinion...

Most of what Snad has done makes no sense. If she wanted to rule, all she had to do was play along with Diva and then give her a knife in the back at an opportune moment. We have seen that Drow are not exactly immune to that. Snad seems to have some high-level personality disorder. She wants to be admired and those that don't she grows to hate. First she turned on her mother, then she turned on her sisters and latest her daugther. She basically destroys everything around her even if it is counter productive to her overall goals. The Vals of Chel are not in awe of her and so must be poisoned, even if it is the most hare-brained plan ever. She now has a clan of worshippers but surely she will turn on them one by one. That is, if the Vals of Chel does not decide to rub her out first. Snad is very good at making enemies and she has many at this point.

[HandofShadows]

The reports that Diva was overcontroling with her kids come from the three sisters and they all had reason to lie. Her other kids don't seem to feel that way at all. We get some proof of that when the three of them get tainted and Diva does not DO all that much to them. Snads claim that Diva was going to take any children she had away from her is something she told her girlfriend who had that happen to her. Basically a way to manipulate her.

Diva was far from a saint, but she did love her kids. But she also had a job to do. Keep the elves from wiping themselves out. And to for that she need to exercise a LOT of control.

[CowardlyPaladin]

The reports that Diva was overcontroling with her kids come from the three sisters and they all had reason to lie. Her other kids don't seem to feel that way at all. We get some proof of that when the three of them get tainted and Diva does not DO all that much to them. Snads claim that Diva was going to take any children she had away from her is something she told her girlfriend who had that happen to her. Basically a way to manipulate her.

Diva was far from a saint, but she did love her kids. But she also had a job to do. Keep the elves from wiping themselves out. And to for that she need to exercise a LOT of control.

I understand why Snady got herself tainted and tried to kill her mother, she is a sociopath with delusions of grandeur (though she does seem to honestly love Mel....in her own way). The thing I have a hard time understanding is Zalas and Swarti, both of them seem like they would be smart enough to understand the instability such an action would cause. Obviously Snady doesn't care about instability, her long term goal relies upon it, but the other two don't seem to be sociopathic....cruel and ambitious yes, but not utterly psychotic. Also wasn't Zalas Diva's choice for heir or am I misremembering that? I know Snady was out of the running for being too insane, N didn't want it, Sil'lice is too angry, and Swarti is too controling, I feel like Zalas had the best claim.

Maybe they went along with it because Snady raised the rest of them? Or maybe it has something to do with the mysterous death of the 6th daughter.

[Miklus]

I understand why Snady got herself tainted and tried to kill her mother, she is a sociopath with delusions of grandeur (though she does seem to honestly love Mel....in her own way). The thing I have a hard time understanding is Zalas and Swarti, both of them seem like they would be smart enough to understand the instability such an action would cause. Obviously Snady doesn't care about instability, her long term goal relies upon it, but the other two don't seem to be sociopathic....cruel and ambitious yes, but not utterly psychotic. Also wasn't Zalas Diva's choice for heir or am I misremembering that? I know Snady was out of the running for being too insane, N didn't want it, Sil'lice is too angry, and Swarti is too controling, I feel like Zalas had the best claim.

Maybe they went along with it because Snady raised the rest of them? Or maybe it has something to do with the mysterous death of the 6th daughter.

I must admit I also have a hard time seeing why Zala and Swarti went along with the coup or why they got tainted in the first place. I seems like a very risky move for two people who have almost everything already.

What is this about a sixth daughter? That is news to me.

[CowardlyPaladin]

I must admit I also have a hard time seeing why Zala and Swarti went along with the coup or why they got tainted in the first place. I seems like a very risky move for two people who have almost everything already.

What is this about a sixth daughter? That is news to me.

THats my issue, I don't see why two people who are already in a good position would take such a risky move. THe N rebellion weakened the Sharen, made the Saghress stronger, undermined the stability of the city and lead to a civil war. One which Swarti lost. The Dunt'vir was a loyal ally of the Sharen and they threw them away. Again this makes perfect sense from Snady's perspective, she isn't interesting in the Sharen, she is interested in something more long term, but from the other two's perspective, even if they wanted to dispose of their mother their had to be a a less damaging way to their own interests.

There is mention in the Wiki and in earlier drafts of a 6th daughter who died in an accident, possibly killed by the Val'Cha'tic (ergo their destruction) and something about how that lead to Diva becoming more isolationist.

[Vinyadan]

Well, with this being the fight I had been waiting for since I started reading, I feel sort of underwhelmed.

[CWater]

Well, with this being the fight I had been waiting for since I started reading, I feel sort of underwhelmed.

It was over rather quick. Not saying that every important confrontation requires a big showy fight, but yeah.. A bit disappointing.

[HandofShadows]

The notes say that Kern wanted it to go on a page longer but pages were getting tight.

I think Sarv got what she deserved. She was a backstabbing traitor who killed her own mother and slaughtered hundreds of her own people before that (Diva's Guards and the palace staff). The results of her actions got thousands of innocent people killed and a large chunk of the Clans forces killed. Even in the fight with Quain she used a poisoned sword and really wasn't even fighting for herself. She was dancing to Snad's tune and was to stupid to notice.

Good riddance to rubbish.

[eschmenk]

I thought the pointless fight lasted too long as it was. I guess it was a way to get Quain infected, but otherwise I think having some troops find that Sarv committed suicide near some Sharen symbol would have been more effective, IMO. Another idea would have been to have Sarv cut down by Quain in very quickly, but arrange it so we couldn't tell if Sarv had simply intended suicide by Quain or if she was so delusional that she thought she could win and somehow benefit from the victory. That might have been at least mildly interesting.

Anyway, any additional pages would have made the already boring fight just be more boring, IMO. It's not as if there was any suspense to the fight, except for how long Kern would make it last.

[CWater]

I thought the pointless fight lasted too long as it was. I guess it was a way to get Quain infected, but otherwise I think having some troops find that Sarv committed suicide near some Sharen symbol would have been more effective, IMO. Another idea would have been to have Sarv cut down by Quain in very quickly, but arrange it so we couldn't tell if Sarv had simply intended suicide by Quain or if she was so delusional that she thought she could win and somehow benefit from the victory. That might have been at least mildly interesting.

*nod* That could have worked too.

Well, what next? Is this story arc wrapping up?

[eschmenk]

Well, what next? Is this story arc wrapping up?

Maybe we will find out what Sil'lice is up to and how she'll react when she finds out that Shala is dead? I think Sil'lice's group and the Mimaneids were planning to move against the Sharen side in Chel. Even though that's a moot point now, they may be on their way to Chel before they find out. I wouldn't mind that because I like little Diva as a character.

Ariel's group rode back with the turtle, so they may be around. I don't know where Chiri and Shan went to after Shala's cremation, but they might be up to something. Vials of poison and one vial of the antidote were brought back, too. I don't know how Nirnaya could have gotten the same poison, but it would be interesting if Quain winds up needing the antidote.

[Arkhosia]

Damnit Zala'ess, that could've been an awesomely epic fight and you had to go and be pragmatic!

Unrelated, but anyone else feel heaps of pity for Mel?

[HandofShadows]

Unrelated, but anyone else feel heaps of pity for Mel?

I feel sorry that she had Quine as a mom that's for sure. BUT she turned herself into Snads plaything all on her own.

[eschmenk]

I feel sorry that she had Quine as a mom that's for sure.

I couldn't even feel that much for Mel. She came across as such an unbelievable character that I can't care about her at all. Her passivity during her first visit with Snadhya destroyed her as a character for me and there hasn't been anything to encourage me to start thinking of her as a character again since then. Even if that hadn't happened, whatever warm fuzzies I might have retained from her apparent concern for Ariel in the earliest books would have been erased by her slow response when Ariel's arm was cut off.

It's kind of odd actually, but Mel comes across as somewhat non-canonical to me even when she's on a perfectly canonical page.

[Arkhosia]

I feel sorry that she had Quine as a mom that's for sure. BUT she turned herself into Snads plaything all on her own.

True, but it's mainly the entire "abusive relationship" vibe i'm getting. like, seriously, manipulating someone with their love for you is just wrong on so many levels.
I dont particularly care for the character herself, just the situations involving her.

[Vinyadan]

About the Chibi: now, that's more like it!

[Vinyadan]

I really like the spider guys, so I'm happy Waes got a coverpage. I do wonder whether she will survive her clan.

[eschmenk]

Pharriastan = ? Google never heard of them.

The font that's being used in the comic has so many kerning problems that it's hard to read. I can't tell if someone accidentally typed a space after the V in "prevail" or not. The "AST" combination is packed together so tightly that I had to stare at it for a while to figure out what to type into Google.

Maybe I shouldn't have said anything because of https://xkcd.com/1015/

In my defense, though, I think it would have been hard to miss in this case.

[HandofShadows]

It's a region of the surface world that the Clan comes from.

[Arkhosia]

Pharriastan = ? Google never heard of them.

The font that's being used in the comic has so many kerning problems that it's hard to read. I can't tell if someone accidentally typed a space after the V in "prevail" or not. The "AST" combination is packed together so tightly that I had to stare at it for a while to figure out what to type into Google.

Maybe I shouldn't have said anything because of https://xkcd.com/1015/

In my defense, though, I think it would have been hard to miss in this case.

Also, I find it very amusing how Kern works on the comment.

[Vinyadan]

And in this page, we discover how the life of Waes turns into a Svankmajer film.

[HandofShadows]

Well, every ones worst fears about what was going on have proven to be coming true. The Death Flower Plague is in the Beld's House and moving fast. What may be worse is the Plague might easily escape and the whole city will be infected.

[Vinyadan]

Waes knows something about the monopoly of the use of physical force. Max Weber would be so proud

[CWater]

It's been quite quiet here for a while...

What did folks think of the last chapter? (The Kyorl stuff.) I kind of liked it in the end, though I must say I was very surprised how it all turned out, I mean, there was almost no bloodshed or backstabbing!!

[Oneris]

It's been quite quiet here for a while...

What did folks think of the last chapter? (The Kyorl stuff.) I kind of liked it in the end, though I must say I was very surprised how it all turned out, I mean, there was almost no bloodshed or backstabbing!!

Aside for the murder of Cinnamon, possibly of the pompadour-bodyguard, all the judicators and everyone in the Twin Eyes headquarters except one, and the potential tainting of dozens of Kyorl defenders, you mean?

I'm actually surprised at how much I ended up liking Anahid. It felt for the longest time she was the smut-bait pet of a fan with way too much influence and a character shoehorned into the story in a position of far too much importance for a cameo. But she's actually quite interesting with her sin-seer abilities and the discovery of Snadhya trying to get a hook into her and the clan suggests much darker things to come. I hope she's being set up to be broken. No one should be allowed to be so pure and perfect in Drowtales.

[Vinyadan]

Yes, she worked out fine. Other cameos honestly didn't (the cameo of the Orthobbae teacher helping Chris and Shan was the worst example). Drowtales has a big problem with cameos - I understand that they are needed for the survival of the studio, but they end up splintering the main story, and are usually introduced with too little information in the comic itself.

I liked the last two chapters, mainly because they were about character I cared about. However, I think that the writers should understand that puling a character out of nowhere, giving it a name and having him speak is not enough to make him interesting. Part of Diva's imperial guard? Wow, cool! Pity that you weren't visible when the Guard did stuff that really mattered and had an emotional impact (the Prologue). Actually, you probably just diluted the coolness of the imperial guard.
Beside which, there is a certain tendence to Anticlimax. Stuff seems to be going much better now, however, even though much of the previous chapters after the time jump seemed like an uninsteresting necessity to prepare the current events.

But I still am reading the comic, so it couldn't be too bad.

[HandofShadows]

Ana is nice because she wants to be nice. Not because she is a piece of fluff. She knows the worst people can be and in order to take that she has to be very tough on the inside. And someone telling Snads off is ALWAYS a good thing.

And the question I would like to have answered (and probably never will) is NaalDemon a fusion of the two, did the demon "eat" Naal and just copy many aspects of her personality or did Naal eat the demon? (No, I am NOT a huge Naal fan as many are.)

[eschmenk]

Kern, talking about page 5:

Naal always had a strong will to resist her inner demon and this passed on to the demon itself in time. A demon with self control , a rare being in this world. Instead it chose to focus on what mattered most to the girl when alive

I take that to mean that the demon is just a demon, but one that was influenced by Naal and has chosen to act like Naal instead of just automatically doing what demons do.

I agree with Vinyadan said (except that Chirinide seems like a boring character to me and I've never been very interested in the Kyorl or Beldrobbaen factions, other than Naal, and I don't know what Orthobbae teacher he meant).

[Vinyadan]

Kern, talking about page 5:


I take that to mean that the demon is just a demon, but one that was influenced by Naal and has chosen to act like Naal instead of just automatically doing what demons do.

I agree with Vinyadan said (except that Chirinide seems like a boring character to me and I've never been very interested in the Kyorl or Beldrobbaen factions, other than Naal, and I don't know what Orthobbae teacher he meant).

That would be this guy.

[CWater]

Aside for the murder of Cinnamon, possibly of the pompadour-bodyguard, all the judicators and everyone in the Twin Eyes headquarters except one, and the potential tainting of dozens of Kyorl defenders, you mean?

Hah, when you put it like that... XD But seriously, the end was pretty much as peaceful as it could ever be (and the only one who got burned was the sociopathic Yuhle).

I'm actually surprised at how much I ended up liking Anahid. It felt for the longest time she was the smut-bait pet of a fan with way too much influence and a character shoehorned into the story in a position of far too much importance for a cameo. But she's actually quite interesting with her sin-seer abilities and the discovery of Snadhya trying to get a hook into her and the clan suggests much darker things to come. I hope she's being set up to be broken. No one should be allowed to be so pure and perfect in Drowtales.

I actually didn't even realise Ana was a cameo at all (I don't read any commentary or forums there), so I guess that tells something of the character. I was a bit unsure what to think of her first, but guess she grew on me. ^_^

If this was the last we're to see of Kyovarde though, I'm a little sad. Kind of liked that fanatic. Though I think there should have been at least one more page explaining her change of heart/decision to leave the clan. It doesn't seem wrong per se, I'd just like to have seen more about how she came to that conclusion.