Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 68
  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ArenaManager's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007

    Default Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Map:
    Spoiler
    Show


    XP Award: 300 XP
    GP Award: 300 GP

    Ruth - candycorn
    Katta - Sallera

    All Combatants, please roll initiative and declare final purchases, if any
    Have a question about the Arena Tournament? Ask one of our referees!
    Waiting Room | Recruitment thread | Archives
    Avatar: "Cubicle", by Bitzeralisis

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sallera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Init: (1d20+5)[8]

    No purchases, unless I happen to come across a reactive purchase I can make with less than 2 gold.
    Wriggle avatar by memnarch.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Current characters:
    Faien
    Aya
    August
    Sei

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Init: (1d20+3)[19]

    I can deal with no purchases. :)

    When I finalized my spell list, Invisibility was ok to have. Is this still the case, or was it prohibited for this exhibition?
    Last edited by candycorn; 2010-08-03 at 11:31 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sallera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Yep, I'm pretty sure we agreed Invisibility was fine, since this is an official exhibition, so we'll have people around to do LoS when we need it. Go ahead and start.
    Wriggle avatar by memnarch.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Current characters:
    Faien
    Aya
    August
    Sei

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    hustlertwo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Yeah, Invisibility is generally a no-no in informal exhibitions (no one wants refs dragged in for LoS checks when nothing's at stake), but these rounds will be exceptions to that. They will probably be held largely or completely in glass arenas for speed, but if you have a way to hide, feel free to do so.

    My Characters:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Arena:
    Train, 9-1, Round 58 Champion, Round 79 Champion
    Battle Janitor, 6-0, Round 65 Champion, Round 72 Champion
    Fiorella, 4-0, Round 60 Champion
    Mr. Solus, 6-2, Round 67 Runner-Up, Round 75 Co-Champion

    Campaign Characters:
    Drace Sterling

    Aldhaven's Arena, open to all who love to kill and maim!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Start in N4. Begin Casting (Spellcraft DC 17 to ID):
    Spoiler
    Show
    Invisibility
    CL Check: (1d20+1)[10] vs DC 8[/roll]


    Refs Only:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Move to R8


    Done.

    Stats:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Location: R8 (possibly invisible)
    AC: 15 (Touch 13, FF 12)
    Effects Active: Possibly Invisible 1/10
    Spells Remaining: 4/4/0
    Last edited by candycorn; 2010-08-04 at 12:53 AM. Reason: Broken Spoiler

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sallera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Katta, Round 1

    Start in N23, wielding shortbow.
    Spellcraft: (1d20+2)[11] (Have you vanished?)
    Move to N17.
    Standard: Ready action:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Move if Katta hears spellcasting or hears speech she can't understand.


    Stats:
    Spoiler
    Show
    HP 9/9, AC24 (16, 19)

    Done.
    Wriggle avatar by memnarch.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Current characters:
    Faien
    Aya
    August
    Sei

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    hustlertwo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Heh, I think the Spellcraft check is extremely pointless, since Katta sees you disappear from sight in N-4.

    My Characters:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Arena:
    Train, 9-1, Round 58 Champion, Round 79 Champion
    Battle Janitor, 6-0, Round 65 Champion, Round 72 Champion
    Fiorella, 4-0, Round 60 Champion
    Mr. Solus, 6-2, Round 67 Runner-Up, Round 75 Co-Champion

    Campaign Characters:
    Drace Sterling

    Aldhaven's Arena, open to all who love to kill and maim!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Yes. Sorry, I have vanished.

    Refs:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Double move to R14


    Done.

    Stats:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Location: R14
    AC: 15 (Touch 13, FF 12)
    Effects Active: Invisible 2/10
    Spells Remaining: 4/4/0

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sallera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Katta, Round 2

    Move to U16.
    Standard: Ready action:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Move if Katta hears spellcasting or hears speech she can't understand.


    Stats:
    Spoiler
    Show
    HP 9/9, AC24 (16, 19)
    Melds shaped: Wormtail Belt

    Done.
    Wriggle avatar by memnarch.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Current characters:
    Faien
    Aya
    August
    Sei

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Ruth, Round 3

    Refs:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Move: to W15.
    Standard: Ready Action: Cast Charm person if Katta performs any action.


    Done.
    You are entitled to a listen check.

    Stats:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Location: R14, Readied Action, Invisible
    AC: 15 (Touch 13, FF 12)
    Effects Active: Invisible 3/10
    Spells Remaining: 4/4/0
    Last edited by candycorn; 2010-08-04 at 01:34 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sallera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Reactive Listen: (1d20+3)[21]

    Edit: I'll wait to see what I hear.
    Last edited by Sallera; 2010-08-04 at 01:35 AM.
    Wriggle avatar by memnarch.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Current characters:
    Faien
    Aya
    August
    Sei

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Based on the rules in the Waiting Room, that's an improved success.

    Therefore: You hear movement. It begins to the west by northwest, and travels eastward, before ending fairly nearby (within 30 feet), to the east by northeast.

    I do believe that's an appropriate amount of information for a listen check that beats by 10, but by less than 20.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sallera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Katta, Round 3

    Move to S16.
    Standard: Ready action:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Move if Katta hears spellcasting or hears speech she can't understand.


    Stats:
    Spoiler
    Show
    HP 9/9, AC24 (16, 19)
    Melds shaped: Wormtail Belt

    Done.
    Wriggle avatar by memnarch.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Current characters:
    Faien
    Aya
    August
    Sei

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Your movement triggers my ready action. As you begin to move out of U16, you hear casting.

    Listen Check DC 12, then Spellcraft DC 16 reveals:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Charm Person


    Will Save, DC 19, please.

    Refs Only:
    Spoiler
    Show


    DC: 10 (base) +5 (charisma) +1 (Jaebrin racial for enchantment spells) + 2 (spell focus and greater spell focus enchantment) + 1 (Level 1 spell)

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sallera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Ah, of course. Don't know how I missed that way.

    Will: (1d20+4)[23]

    Edit: You're now visible, yes? Where?
    Last edited by Sallera; 2010-08-04 at 02:05 AM.
    Wriggle avatar by memnarch.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Current characters:
    Faien
    Aya
    August
    Sei

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Your sheet shows a -1 penalty to will saves, not a +4 bonus.

    Where is the modifier coming from?

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sallera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Charm Person (as your only 1st level spell, that naturally must be what you're casting) grants a +5 bonus on the save if you're being 'threatened or attacked' by the caster, which in the Arena is always considered the case (hence why you can't take 10 on skills.)
    Wriggle avatar by memnarch.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Current characters:
    Faien
    Aya
    August
    Sei

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    That, I think I shall dispute.

    In this match, TheFallenOne ruled that "when threatened" did not apply to invisible opponents.

    In addition, at the time of the casting, you have not detected an attack from me once.

    The text requires more than just being threatened. It requires being threatened or attacked by a specific person. Ruth. And if you cannot detect Ruth, you cannot be threatened by her.

    Relevant text:
    If the creature is currently being threatened or attacked by you or your allies, however, it receives a +5 bonus on its saving throw.
    I've not levied any threats, nor have I made any attacks.
    Last edited by candycorn; 2010-08-04 at 02:24 AM.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sallera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Ah, I looked up the post that stated it always applied, and it was not by Kyeudo as I'd thought, but rather another High Ref. Think I'll take this one to the Waiting Room; need sleep anyway, and it would be a good thing to set precedent on.
    Wriggle avatar by memnarch.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Current characters:
    Faien
    Aya
    August
    Sei

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Well, one way or the other, it'll be answered.

    After the spell resolves (one way or another, because that bonus is the difference between pass and fail), I'll appear in W15.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Titan in the Playground
     
    TheFallenOne's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Heidelberg, Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Quote Originally Posted by candycorn View Post
    In this match, TheFallenOne ruled that "when threatened" did not apply to invisible opponents.
    first, it was not about an invisible opponent, but about an opponent your AC wasn't aware at all because of Hide from Animals. Katta was aware of Ruth due to the Listen check

    second, in the end we didn't go with my initial ruling

    This is indeed a good question. That you're always threatened in the Arena when it comes to skill checks was one of the first things I learned here when I wanted to take 10 once. Just never considered if it just means "You're threatened" or "You're threatened by your opponent". I can't make a call on this now, not knowing who made that "Always threatened" ruling with what wording. Let's see what we get in the Waiting Room
    Not a member of the Bayesian Conspiracy. Honestly. Probably. Maybe.
    Find your own priors!



  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    I would like to point out that Katta was aware of movement. It might be reasonable for her to assume that it is Ruth, but without actual identification of the source of the noise, it can't be a sure thing.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Titan in the Playground
     
    TheFallenOne's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Heidelberg, Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Let's see a Listen and Spellcraft check from Katta. If he identifies the spell he should feel threatened by the caster. I'll leave making a ruling on the more general question to someone else
    Not a member of the Bayesian Conspiracy. Honestly. Probably. Maybe.
    Find your own priors!



  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

    Join Date
    May 2010

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    That ruling has some pretty severe implications for Charm person, but it's reasonable, I suppose.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Sallera's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Finland

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Alright then.
    Listen: (1d20+3)[17]
    Spellcraft: (1d20+2)[10]
    Wriggle avatar by memnarch.
    Spoiler
    Show
    Current characters:
    Faien
    Aya
    August
    Sei

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Titan in the Playground
     
    TheFallenOne's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Heidelberg, Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    well, back to the Waiting Room then. I posted the precedents on the matter I could find there
    Not a member of the Bayesian Conspiracy. Honestly. Probably. Maybe.
    Find your own priors!



  28. - Top - End - #28
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    hustlertwo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Yeah, this is why Charm Person is rarely used in Arena (offhand, I can only remember one time it was successfully cast, don't recall the specific round number but it was fairly recent). You're regarded as being threatened as soon as the fight begins, which is why you can't take 10 on rolls, as Fallen said. A side effect of this is that CP's at a severe disadvantage. Although it's something of a tough spell to use in Arena anyhow, since the interpretation of what is and isn't a 'suicidal' action, or something a character would not normally do, is all rather vague.

    To the best of my knowledge, it would not matter if the spell is identified. Presumably the invisibility also does not end the threatened state, but I'm less certain of that.

    My Characters:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Arena:
    Train, 9-1, Round 58 Champion, Round 79 Champion
    Battle Janitor, 6-0, Round 65 Champion, Round 72 Champion
    Fiorella, 4-0, Round 60 Champion
    Mr. Solus, 6-2, Round 67 Runner-Up, Round 75 Co-Champion

    Campaign Characters:
    Drace Sterling

    Aldhaven's Arena, open to all who love to kill and maim!

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Titan in the Playground
     
    TheFallenOne's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Heidelberg, Germany
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Quote Originally Posted by hustlertwo View Post
    Yeah, this is why Charm Person is rarely used in Arena (offhand, I can only remember one time it was successfully cast, don't recall the specific round number but it was fairly recent). You're regarded as being threatened as soon as the fight begins, which is why you can't take 10 on rolls, as Fallen said. A side effect of this is that CP's at a severe disadvantage. Although it's something of a tough spell to use in Arena anyhow, since the interpretation of what is and isn't a 'suicidal' action, or something a character would not normally do, is all rather vague.

    To the best of my knowledge, it would not matter if the spell is identified. Presumably the invisibility also does not end the threatened state, but I'm less certain of that.
    can you track down where the "Always threatened" is coming from? Take a look at the Waiting Room, there are contradicting past statements of High Refs in regards to charm person
    Not a member of the Bayesian Conspiracy. Honestly. Probably. Maybe.
    Find your own priors!



  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    hustlertwo's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Georgia
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: Arena Tournament, LA1 Exhibition: Ruth vs. Katta

    Always threatened probably predates me, but here's what I believe is the most recent successful Charm Person, if anyone wants to glean what they can from it. The caster acknowledges the threatened save bonus, but in this case the issue didn't have to be pressed, since it still would not have led to success anyhow. The mechanics of being charmed are also explored a bit, but the DQ of the charmed person ultimately cuts the debate short.

    Ultimately, I suppose it does come down to the ruling about "always threatened". If that is a true Arena precedent, as we've always assumed, then I'm not sure how the +5 bonus would not be applied. If it isn't, well, for one thing, CP becomes more viable. For another, people are going to be taking 10 all over the place.
    Last edited by hustlertwo; 2010-08-04 at 11:38 AM.

    My Characters:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Arena:
    Train, 9-1, Round 58 Champion, Round 79 Champion
    Battle Janitor, 6-0, Round 65 Champion, Round 72 Champion
    Fiorella, 4-0, Round 60 Champion
    Mr. Solus, 6-2, Round 67 Runner-Up, Round 75 Co-Champion

    Campaign Characters:
    Drace Sterling

    Aldhaven's Arena, open to all who love to kill and maim!

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •