3.5 Feat-Great Speed

[ericgrau]

If I were to DM, and my characters were likely to run, and they needed not to, I'd just give this to the enemies. Simple.

Giving every PC/enemy the same ability doesn't make the feat balanced. Heck, if they need to take it it only shows that it is imbalanced.

It's not just for getting away either. As pointed out, dash already exists for +5 feet. Another square adds significant mobility for getting around a baddy. 20' OTOH instantly gets you to where you want to be, instantly negates all enemy tactical movement, instantly negates all enemy tactical positioning, instantly negates any enemy tanking, etc. For only 1 feat that is wtf OP. Being able to stack more on top of that makes it worse, but it's already over the top. Basically for every single reason you want more speed and thus made this feat, for each of those reasons too much speed is too much.

Maybe at mid-high levels when players have access to magical sources of speed boosts it won't be so bad, but even then the benefit would merely be diluted by the other speed boosts. Anyone with the feat would still be a noticeable step above anyone who didn't.

[Aran Banks]

Change Base Land Speed to 'any one movement speed you possess' and you might have me sold.

Done. I can't believe I didn't think about that.

And yes, hilarious burrowing.

At levels 18+, you (30 ft run speed), you can sprint slightly faster than half the speed of sound and get +64 to your jump checks. You could reliable jump about 10 toyota siennas lined car door to car door. That's cool.

[Jallorn]

I would actually say Con would work as a prereq, since people who can run fast tend to be more healthy.

[Aran Banks]

ewwwww... Con prereqs. How about 15 of any one physical stat? Strength kind of makes sense because you've got muscles to help for running, Constitution would work for the endurance idea, and dexterity is... speed... ish.

I'd prefer no prereqs, but I'm terribly biased to prereq-free feats.

[Lix Lorn]

ewwwww... Con prereqs. How about 15 of any one physical stat? Strength kind of makes sense because you've got muscles to help for running, Constitution would work for the endurance idea, and dexterity is... speed... ish.

I'd prefer no prereqs, but I'm terribly biased to prereq-free feats.

Any physical stat would make sense to me.

[Zaydos]

I'd say Dex not Con. IRL Con would make the most sense, but D&D is not real life and functions on its own little logic. Also rogues even if fragile can move really, really fast.

[Lix Lorn]

I like the idea of allowing any of the three physical stats to qualify you.

[Battleship789]

For reference, the human land speed record is 100 metres in 9.79 seconds (22.85 mph).

Small nitpick here: the current 100 meter world record is 9.58 seconds. /end nitpick

On topic, I also like the any physical stat for a prereq. I think that Aran Banks' progression is very good, and I think you could change it slightly to balance out different movespeed types.

For example:
Burrow movespeed increases at 1/2 the typed rate, while flying increases at double the rate, etc.

[Lix Lorn]

Complicated, but logical. (nods)

[Aran Banks]

The thing I was thinking about was that some speeds are based off of base land speed (gain a fly speed equal to double your base land speed). So would this improve those abilities too?

Also, awesome burrowers shouldn't have the 1/2 speed problem. Thoqquas deserve an awesomely high burrow speed, though their fly speed can be limited.

Any easy way to implement this? I was thinking that if the speed that the feat is improveing comes from a racial feature or racial paragon class, you could double it.... or if it doesn't you'd half it. One or the other; I can't figure out any good way to incorporate 50%, 100%, and 200% calculations here.

[Lix Lorn]

Well, it's currently 10 feet. 50% is 5 feet. 200% is 20. (Shrugs)

Although, doubling it might be pushing it. 150% (15) at most.

[mroozee]

The idea of a TRULY fast character is appealing, but generating the kind of speed discussed above is probably too much for a Feat chain.

It might fit nicely into a PrC, though. Below is a very rough attempt...

Speedster

Hit Die: d6

Requirements:
To qualify to become a Speedster, a character must fulfill all the following requirements

BAB +1
Feats: Run, Improved Initiative

Class Skills: (haven't figured that list out yet)
Skill Points at each Level: 4+Int modifier

Class Features:
Speedster class levels stack with Monk levels for purposes of Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus (but not Unarmed Damage) and AC Bonus
Great Speed grants an unnamed +10' movement per class level bonus to land speed, +20' per CL to flight speed and +5' per CL to all others.

Speedster
{table=head]Level|Base Attack[br]Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|

+0

|

+0

|

+2

|

+0

|Great Speed*

2nd|

+1

|

+0

|

+3

|

+0

|Uncanny Dodge

3rd|

+2

|

+1

|

+3

|

+1

|Evasion

4th|

+3

|

+1

|

+4

|

+1

|Lightning Reflexes

5th|

+3

|

+1

|

+4

|

+1

|Displacement 25%

6th|

+4

|

+2

|

+5

|

+2

|Improved Uncanny Dodge

7th|

+5

|

+2

|

+5

|

+2

|Improved Evasion

8th|

+6

|

+2

|

+6

|

+2

|Epic Reflexes

9th|

+6

|

+3

|

+6

|

+3

|Superior Initiative

10th|

+7

|

+3

|

+7

|

+3

|Displacement 50%[/table]

A three-level dip might be sufficient for some (granting +30 to land speed, Evasion, and Uncanny Dodge) but would come at a great cost to their build.

[Aran Banks]

Well, it's currently 10 feet. 50% is 5 feet. 200% is 20. (Shrugs)

Although, doubling it might be pushing it. 150% (15) at most.

No, I mean that a human or a giant eagle (if they took this feat for a burrow speed bonus) should get 1/2 speed. However, a Thoqqua deserves 200% speed, since it's a lava worm. Making the burrow speed always half is unfair to the Thoqqua--it also means just about everyone will take flight (since it's x2 speed).

[Lix Lorn]

The PrC looks okay, but it's awkward. Like you said, even a few levels is a damage to their build-and death to casters.

No, I mean, don't double speed. It's... way too much speed. DXD
It might be easier just to keep it a flat increase, whatever movement type it is.

[Aran Banks]

What say that if you're adding the speed to something not granted to you by your race (or maybe class), the speed increase is halved?

I mean, I kind of see that as pissing in a couple of guys' cheerios, but it makes sense.

[Lix Lorn]

I don't think it will be any chees-IER if we allow it apply to either.

[ex cathedra]

For an example of what Aran is talking about, the Feathered Wings graft (Fiend Folio) grants an [Ex] fly speed equal to twice your highest base speed has a really amusing interaction with the current iteration of this feat (though, it also pulls triple duty from the original version of this feat, and has a stupid interaction with Haste). It's also something I try to get on as many of my non-good characters as possible, since there comes a point when everyone just needs to fly.

I think that the absurdly niche stealth-nerf that is "halve the bonus if it's applied to any non-inherent speed" is a bad way to do things, since it will almost never come up, and it doesn't even fix the problem with the above graft, and items and class features like it.

[Lix Lorn]

Maybe there should be a clause that says it's added on before other things are calculated. :/

[Aran Banks]

"Adding this to a speed does not change any of your other speeds."

Is that good enough?

[Lix Lorn]

...not really. It's kinda ambiguous, and looks like a tuatology.
How about:
'This change does not change any other abilities based on that speed.'

[Aran Banks]

Well, that almost sounds like it doesn't affect your jump check.

Great Speed
"Run, run, run, as fast as you can! You can't catch me; I'm the gingerbread man!"
This feat scales to your ECL:
1-4: Add 10 ft to any one base speed.

5-8: Add 20 ft to the same base speed.

9-12: Add 40 ft to the same base speed.

13-17: Add 80 ft to the same base speed.

18+: Add 160 feet to the same base speed.

This speed increase does not change any other speeds based on the increased speed.

---

That would work. It's a little wordy, but it's pretty specific.

[Lix Lorn]

(nods) Makes sense.