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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Private-Prinny's Avatar

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    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    Basically, a challenge to create an optimized, flavorful character, using a "Secret Ingredient" of a particular PrC, different for each contest. You will need to present your build at at least one of the following points: 5th level, 10th level, 15th, 20th, and a "sweet spot" that you feel is the high point of the build. Feel free to present as many of these as you like, and please give a rundown of the build's abilities and playability at all of the levels you didn't show. The rules are as follows:

    Menu: For most challenges, the "special ingredient" will be drawn from Core plus Completes. There will, from time to time, be special challenges that showcase secret ingredients from other books--for example, the XPH.

    Kitchen: Competitors will be free to use any official 3.5 rulebook in constructing their builds. Dragon magazine is disallowed, and Unearthed Arcana is allowed; but see Elegance below. Alternate rule systems from UA such as gestalt are not allowed, as they create a different playing field. Also, item familiars are forbidden because I hate 'em.

    Cooking Time: Contestants will have until Monday, August 23rd to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Private-Prinny. Builds will then be posted simultaneously, to avoid copying.

    Judging: Judging will be based on the following criteria, with each build rated from 1 (very poor) to 5 (exemplary) in each area: Originality, Power, Elegance, Use of Secret Ingredient.

    Power level is up to you. Cheese is acceptable, but should be kept to a sane level unless you're showcasing a new TO build you've discovered. In the words of one of my predecessors, a little cheddar can be nice, but avoid the mature Gruyere unless you're making a cheese fondue.

    Elegance could bear a little elaboration. It basically measures how skillfully you put your build together, and whether you sacrificed flavor for power. We're cooking here - if your dish doesn't taste good, it doesn't matter how well-presented it is. Use of flaws is an automatic point lost in this category. Other things that will cause lost points here are excessive multiclassing, and classes that don't fit the concept - using Cloistered Cleric in a front-line melee fighter, for example, will lose you points.

    I am going to have to ask the contestants to PM me about any disagreement with the judges. Under no circumstances is a contestant to defend themselves inside the thread, since it breaks anonymity.

    Presentation: Builds will be posted anonymously, in order to avoid the potential of bias towards a particular competitor. For this reason, please don't put your name in the build, as I'm likely to miss it when anonymising the entries!

    Due to concerns about standardizing entry format, I'd like everyone to try to use the following table for their entry.
    Spoiler
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    NAME OF ENTRY
    {table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

    1st|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |
    +x
    |Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
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    [b]NAME OF ENTRY[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[B]Class[/B]|[b]Base Attack<br>Bonus[/b]|[b]Fort Save[/b]|[b]Ref Save[/b]|[b]Will Save[/b]|[B]Skills[/B]|[B]Feats[/B]|[b]Class Features[/b]

    1st|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    2nd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    3rd|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    4th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    5th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    6th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    7th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    8th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    9th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    10th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    11th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    12th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    13th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    14th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    15th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    16th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    17th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    18th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    19th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities

    20th|New Class Level|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|[center]+x[/center]|Skills|New Feats|New Class Abilities[/table]


    For entries with spellcasting, use the following table for Spells per day and Spells Known. (Spells Known only if necessary, i.e. Sorcerer or Bard, but not Wizard or Warmage)
    Spoiler
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    Spells per day/Spells Known
    {table=head]Level|0lvl|1st|2nd|3rd|4th|5th|6th|7th|8th|9th

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]

    Code
    Spoiler
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    [b]Spells per day/Spells Known[/b]
    {table=head][b]Level[/b]|[b]0lvl[/b]|[b]1st[/b]|[b]2nd[/b]|[b]3rd[/b]|[b]4th[/b]|[b]5th[/b]|[b]6th[/b]|[b]7th[/b]|[b]8th[/b]|[b]9th[/b]

    1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    2nd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    3rd|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    4th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    5th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    6th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    7th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    8th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    9th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    10th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    11th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    12th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    13th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    14th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    15th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    16th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    17th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    18th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    19th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-

    20th|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-[/table]


    For other systems (Psionics, ToB, Incarnum, etc.) keep track of PP/maneuvers/essentia separately, preferably in a nice neat list.

    Speculation: Please don't post or speculate on possible builds until the "reveal," in order to avoid spoiling the surprise if a particular competitor is producing a build along those lines.

    Leadership is banned; we're producing a meal, not a seven-course banquet for a hundred diners.

    So! Who wants to sign up as a contestant, and who wants to sign up as a judge? Looking for about 5 judges and as many contestants as feel like playing!

    This week's Secret Ingredient is...

    Complete Champion's Mythic Exemplar!

    Allez optimiser!

    Judges
    Amphetryon
    DaragosKitsune
    Keld Denar
    true_shinken
    The Vorpal Tribble

    Contestants
    cd4
    Chineselegolas
    DanReiv
    Eldariel
    kestrel404
    OMG PONIES
    Ozymandias9
    Quirp
    T.G. Oskar
    Wings of Peace

    Past Competitions

    Iron Chef I (Entropomancer)
    Iron Chef II (Psibond Agent)
    Iron Chef III (Cancer Mage)
    Iron Chef IV (Stonelord)
    Iron Chef V (War Chanter)
    Iron Chef VI (Master of Masks)
    Iron Chef VII (Green Star Adept)
    Iron Chef VIII (Pyrokineticist)
    Iron Chef IX (Animal Lord)
    Last edited by Private-Prinny; 2010-08-22 at 09:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x...070504a&page=3

    linky. Wizards CC excerpt.

    I will tentatively nominate myself as an entrant. I have a lot of study and assignments this week, so I may not be abble to complete an entry.

    If an extra judge is required, notify me and I will drop out in order to assist.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Amphetryon's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    I'll sign up to judge this one.

    Criteria:
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    MY CRITERIA: When more than a single example is given for a score, not all examples need be met to warrant that score.

    Originality: Originality looks in part at the established archetypes and builds that the community at large has produced over the years. Characters attempting to perform, yet less adept at performing, as a well-established archetype - for instance, a charger - than typical for that archetype will score lower here than characters attempting to break new ground. Examples of a given score -
    5 - A new concept, necessitating the Secret Ingredient featured in the Iron Chef.
    4 - A new concept, using the Secret Ingredient featured in the Iron Chef without requiring it to tick.
    3 - An unusual concept that has been showcased on gaming forums before, or that is featured in other contest entrants. Itís not new, but itís not stock standard either.
    2 - An old reliable concept, substituting the Secret Ingredient for the one typically used in discussions of builds of this type.
    1 - A build either cut and pasted or cobbled together entirely from extant handbooks and other known works. No new ideas are presented.

    Power: Power is measured assuming a 1st - 20th campaign. Characters that come to power very late in the progression, or that are somehow ineligible to play at low levels, can expect a deduction here as surely as characters whose power peaks at low-to-mid levels and then relatively diminishes. Examples of a given score, relative to other entrants in the contest -
    5 - Easily the most powerful, flexible build presented here.
    4 - A powerful character that might need help or additional preparation in specific circumstances to continue to do its job well.
    3 - A build that is of average power for the contest, neither significantly stronger nor appreciably weaker overall. It may dominate in niche cases or be rendered weak in other niche cases.
    2 - While less powerful than the typical entry for this contest, the character manages to contribute reasonably without relying on help from other party members.
    1 - The build struggles to perform to the expectations typical for a character in the role assigned. Either the character relies heavily on help from other party members or requires specific equipment not restricted to the given role in order to be useful.

    Elegance: Note that I tie the Elegance score closely to the Secret Ingredient. Shifter Druid 18/Moonspeaker 2 may be simple, but it is not an elegant use of Moonspeaker, to my mind. Note also that my default assumption is that characters presented are being inserted into an already-established world. A character that requires the DM to rewrite or ignore large swaths of existing fluff for your concept to work is unlikely to score highly in Elegance. References to Unearthed Arcana include those aspects of Unearthed Arcana that are included in the Variant section of the SRD. If I have to go hunting through books just to figure out where you got a particular feat, item, template, or obscure skill usage, expect no more than a 2 in Elegance. Examples of a given score -
    5 - The Secret Ingredient is entered appropriately early and taken to completion. All class levels, feats, skills, and disclosed items are smoothly tied together and progress the whole concept seamlessly and in a logical order. Favored Class rules are adhered to, and single-level dips are kept to a bare minimum - no more than one. No Unearthed Arcana, templates, LA or Racial HD, or other obvious power-oriented shenanigans were used. One could reasonably expect a majority of DMs to allow both the concept and progression to happen in a typical game.
    4 - The Secret Ingredient is entered reasonably early, perhaps delayed a bit or taken piecemeal, but finished. All class levels, feats, skills, and disclosed items are useful, but may not be intuitive choices to augment the presented concept. No Unearthed Arcana, templates, LA or Racial HD, or other obvious shenanigans were used, though Favored Class rules may have been ignored. One might expect to have to explain some bits of the build fairly carefully to a DM and possibly work out some accommodations, but flying books or dice bags are unlikely.
    3 - The Secret Ingredient is taken to completion, but entered later than expected or typical of this contest. Class levels, feats, skills, and disclosed items are taken in a disjointed fashion, perhaps indicating power is more important than concept. This character may use a race with a level adjustment for thematic reasons, or be forced to take a flaw or two to fit everything in, or use some other method of grabbing more feats or spells or other features than one would typically expect. One would have to work closely with the DM for some features of the presented build to be available, work as described in the build presented, or come online in a timely fashion, and wouldnít necessarily expect to get this character approved by a DM that doesnít know the player well.
    2 - The Secret Ingredient is abandoned before reaching its capstone or entered too late to finish before Epic levels. Class levels, feats, skills, and disclosed items do not share a unifying theme or work toward a more powerful whole. A template and LA are both included, possibly with flaws. Without an established rapport with a DM, one would expect the concept to meet with enough resistance that having a Plan B is advised when pitching the idea.
    1 - Vivacious Anthropomorphic Dire Were-Squid Half-Fiend Domain Wizard with Frail and Inattentive and... no. Just no. So many discordant templates and feats and ideas have been slapped together that Ďa Wizard did ití is the only viable explanation for the characterís existence. The Secret Ingredient appears to have been an afterthought to the overall design. You would fully expect the character idea either to be rejected by the DM, or to have come into being entirely through the DMís meddling with your character, and wouldnít broach the subject with the DM if dice, books or other potential projectiles were within easy reach.

    Use of Secret Ingredient: This is a conglomeration of how well, and how thoroughly, you incorporate the abilities of the Secret Ingredient into the build. Examples of a given score, relative to other entrants -
    5 - A fresh, original usage maximizing the particular strengths and minimizing the particular weaknesses of the Secret Ingredient. Every aspect of the Secret Ingredient is utilized in the best way of any entry presented.
    4 - A solid, complete usage of the Secret Ingredient. Specific strengths of the Secret Ingredient were emphasized with minimal emphasis taken away from other strengths, or without negating known weaknesses.
    3 - Use of the Secret Ingredient was typical for the contest. Synergies were not emphasized especially, and some features of the Secret Ingredient were ignored for the sake of maximizing a particular trick or two.
    2 - Others used the Secret Ingredient more thoroughly, but this entryís usage wasnít bad. The overall concept works but doesnít especially synergize with the Secret Ingredientís strengths well.
    1 - The Secret Ingredient is actively hindering the concept presented. Clearly the character would have been stronger with a different Prestige Class, and the Secret Ingredient got shoe-horned in there because of the contest.
    Last edited by Amphetryon; 2010-08-16 at 08:10 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    Definitely competing--I've caught the bug!

    So is the new theme prestige classes with a ton of possible options? First Animal Lord, now this--it'll be interesting to see which paths are favored.
    Last edited by OMG PONIES; 2010-08-16 at 11:43 AM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    Quote Originally Posted by Private-Prinny View Post
    Contestants will have until Monday, August 25th to create their builds and PM them to the Chairman, Private-Prinny.
    Whoa! If we have 4 years to create our entries for this competition, they better be a hundred times more amazing than the previous contests have been!

    (I suspect this is a typo, since the next Monday August 25 is in 2014. )
    You can call me Draz.
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    Also of note:

    Work on my homebrew system, CRE8, is still marching slowly onwards. I think I can see the light at the end of the tunnel -- an Alpha release -- in the distance now. Read my Design Goals here.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Keld Denar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    One thing I'd like to propose for table, is to include which level of each class you are taking at each ECL. If at ECL1 you take a level of Ranger, its easy to pick out that its Ranger1. If you take another 3 levels of ranger at ECL8, ECL10, and ECL14, its a bit tougher to look at the build and know what features you gain at that level. Therefore, in your build table, call out levels at Ranger1, PiousTemplar4, Slayer6 or whatever, especially if you split up classes or alternate classes over a given level span.

    My Criteria
    Originality: Does the submission use unexpected sources or material? Does it avoid over-used qualification methods? Does it use the secret ingredient in an unusual or clever way? This section is an amalgam of the build itself and how the build is presented.

    Power: What tier is this build? Does the inclusion of <Secret Ingredient> actually make this build more powerful? Is the build well-optimized? Are there any noticable saggy spots where the build underperforms? Is the build versatile (able to respond to a variety of challenges, both combat and non-combat), on top of any specialized tricks it may contain. Does the build use large amounts of LA and/or RHD that could lead to a slow start? Be as detailed as possible. If there is something your build does that is powerful, yet not completely obvious, you should probably expand upon it. If an important yet subtle feature in your build is missed by the judges, its mostly your own fault.

    Elegance: Does your build progress well? Does it avoid flaws and variant rules (not including published Alt Class Features like Racial Subs)? Do you avoid overly dipping classes like cleric 1 that are obviously for bonus feats/class abilities? Does your build subscribe to various power break points if it doesn't complete a PrC? Do you avoid using Taint and Dark Chaos shuffling? Other judges might, but I have no problem with a player drawing from a multitude of sources. As far as I'm concerned, if material in a source book improves your submission, use it. This section is the one most affected by your back story and build presentation, but the submission itself is still very important here. PLEASE CITE ALL SOURCES USED!

    Use of Secret Ingredient: How important is the secret ingredient in this build? Would you refer to the build as being A <Secret Ingredient>, or are you just splashing the PrC in there? Does the flavor of the build fit that of the PrC? Do you use the PrC in a clever, synergistic or powerful way? Do the special abilities of the secret ingredient augement or are augemented by other abilities in the build? If you didn't use all levels of the secret ingredient (and you don't always have to), do you have good reasoning why not, and did you exit at an acceptable power break point? This section is an amalgam of the build itself and how the SI interacts with the rest of the build.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fax Celestis View Post
    AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY! AILHAY THULUCAY!
    _________________________________
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  7. - Top - End - #7
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    I'm not that much of a chef but I've been willing to give it a shot for some times now. I hate the PrC which is perfect

    Count me in. Also english is not my native tongue, so if it's not written like a book, forgive me. I'm definitly not writing a story about how he made it to 20 either : that's pretty much his life with his looting adventuring buddies. I'll provide a background tho, which I hope will be interesting
    Last edited by DanReiv; 2010-08-16 at 12:54 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #8
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    true_shinken's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    I'll sign up as a judge again this time.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Person_Man's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    Note that Mythic Examplar has a roleplaying pre-requisite. You must be a member of the Disciples of Legend. Here's a brief description for those without a copy of Complete Champion:


    Disciples of Legend

    The Disciples of Legend are students of the past who view the great mythic heroes of bygone ages as models for a life of skill and virtue. While they honor and respect many such ancients, their primary focus is on the legendary Six from Shadow (Dardallion, Imdastri, etc). By studying and emulating these heroes, the Disciples of Legend hope to better themselves and the world around them.


    Also, may I suggest that Skills be listed separately at the end by their max rank. Having them in the chart makes the chart ridiculously hard to read.
    Last edited by Person_Man; 2010-08-16 at 01:30 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Draz74's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Also, may I suggest that Skills be listed separately at the end by their max rank. Having them in the chart makes the chart ridiculously hard to read.
    Heartily agreed.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    Ok, I'm not feeling this one at all.

    I officially volunteer to judge.
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-08-16 at 02:44 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    Quote Originally Posted by Draz74 View Post
    Whoa! If we have 4 years to create our entries for this competition, they better be a hundred times more amazing than the previous contests have been!

    (I suspect this is a typo, since the next Monday August 25 is in 2014. )
    Oops. Fixed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    How to Impress VT

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    Originality
    This is my favorite part of the judging, so I always look close at it. I look at originality in two ways.

    First, the crunch. A race or other classes mixed in that you would not think would add up to something, but does anyway is 'originality'. However, originality for the sake of originality will not net you anything special. If its there to be weird and does nothing for the build but adding this weirdness I'm just going to give you an average score (and then shotgun you in elegance).
    Also, there are certain classes that are often used that routinely score high in originality. The fact that they are used often just for that means they are not original. I will judge on a case by case basis, but Pact magic or Incarnum use will not be an automatic bonus to originality simply because its part of the build.

    Second, the fluff. This is an optimization contest, which in my opinion stretches to both an optimized build and an optimized background. A story can enhance a build so much, especially if it explains how certain bits get to be used by other certain bits. Using a fighter in and of itself may not seem original, but if the story lets me view it in a unique light I will be sure to reward it

    An unoriginal crunch but great story will not save it however. I will be voting on Originality as if it were two criteria, and then averaging each for the final Originality score.

    Power
    This is also a two-edged sword. Power will be judged both on how strong it is, as well as how I compare it to the other builds. Some PrC's are just inherently weak.

    Power comes in various forms. I will be judging each of these criteria segments on their own, and then averaging the scores.

    Melee
    - How tough this guy is up close.
    Ranged
    - How tough you are from a distance.
    Supernatural
    - How strong your casting, manifesting, supernatural abilities or similar are.
    Toughness
    - HP total, damage reductions, resistances, immunities, etc.
    Versatility
    - How useful the build is in a wide variety of situations. Knowledge is power, so those with a broad knowledge base to draw from will get a high score here. Skills will also be included in this.

    Elegance
    Does everything above mesh? Do you read it and feel everything comes together into a flawless whole? Do classes and race make any sense, or do they come across as cheap add-ons? Also, there is a certain 'in the spirit of the contest' unspoken (well, now spoken) rule of mine. If I read it and go, 'Ok, I... guess that could work, but it's really dodgy and not in the spirit of its use', I'm going to hit it on elegance. It may seem beautiful, but if I run my hand over it and get splinters it's just not going to be well viewed.

    Keep in mind a well done story can help smooth out the wrinkles in this by helping us understand why anyone would come to play this combination.

    Use of Secret Ingredient
    Is there any need to add this PrC to the build, or it is just here because the contest required it? That's what this boils down to. It needs to be, in crunch or story (preferably both for maximum scorage) 'necessary' for the concept that is your entry for best results. Does it play to the strengths of the build, for better or worse.


    That's mainly it. If anyone takes umbrage at any of the above or has questions/concerns, lay'em on me.
    Last edited by The Vorpal Tribble; 2010-08-16 at 10:53 PM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    I'll judge if there is another open spot.

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    My Requirements
    A character background and tactics description will aid the evaluation and are encouraged.

    Originality

    My originality score is based on a few things.
    1. Is it unique compared to other entrants?
    2. Does it include unexpected choices in classes, races, feats, etc. without them being pointless or arbitrary?
    3. Is the character fluff impressive and coherent?
    The score is based on a standard of 2-2-1, but points may be docked outside this scale if warranted.

    Power
    Power comes down to, quite simply, how the build would fare in a mid-power campaign. To further clarify, the score will be based on what the build can do. While combat potential and survivability are major facets of this, a build can also gain points in this category via indirect power, such as buffing ability or mobility. However, combat ability will be the main decider of this score, so a character with a lot of indirect ability but no combat ability and no means to correct this may suffer. That being said, having high combat ability but a poor tactical description can also lose points.

    Elegance
    Elegance is dependent on the clarity of the build, the readability of the build, the cohesiveness of the build, and the ability of the entrant to avoid overusing cheese. Points may be lost for inability to follow the rules given, overuse of multiclassing, overuse of templates without effective explanation, disorganized level progression, lack of sources, and possibly spelling errors if they interfere with the evaluation.

    Use of Secret Ingredient
    Points will be gained here for the effective incorporation of the secret ingredient. If the secret ingredient is underused, used incorrectly for the build, or entered late in the build, points may be deducted. Points may also be lost if the build does not use the secret ingredient as its focus. Minor loss of focus may be acceptable, but should not be expected.


    Oh, and for the sake of clarity, do non-casters gain spell casting from Mythic Exemplar for the purposes of this challenge. I do not believe they do, but would like a second opinion.
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    If the line between genius and madness is so thin...

    Then why do so few in this day and age toe said line?

    Thanks to Bongos for the v-13 avvie!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    Quote Originally Posted by DaragosKitsune View Post
    Oh, and for the sake of clarity, do non-casters gain spell casting from Mythic Exemplar for the purposes of this challenge. I do not believe they do, but would like a second opinion.
    This should answer your question. Emphasis on the bold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Complete Champion
    Spellcasting: At 2nd, 4th, 6th, and 8th level, you gain new spells per day and an increase in caster level (and spells known, if applicable) as if you had also gained a level in a spellcasting class to which you belonged before adding the prestige class level.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Moron View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Optimystik View Post
    'Adding up numbers' is completely independent of roleplay. What you're saying makes as much sense as "peeling a banana is not a good way to drive."


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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    Thank you Private-Prinny. I just wanted to make sure of the language in case something weird shows up.
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    If the line between genius and madness is so thin...

    Then why do so few in this day and age toe said line?

    Thanks to Bongos for the v-13 avvie!

    I think the lesson that we can take away from this is that tentacles solve everything, and if you have a problem, then you just need more tentacles. - seadragonknight of the BG boards.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    In as a contestant for this one.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    *Throws down the gauntlet* I will be competing.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    I've got some ideas running around my head. Elegance is gonna be a huge stumbling stone here to pull off something interesting, but we'll see what people manage.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    After reading some issues that judges found with entries in previous competitions, I re-read the rules for Domain feats in Complete Champion. Domain feats (The Domain Devotions) don't actually require domains, they do require in-character devotion to the particular domain's traits (so for Travel Devotion, you might need a devotion to the ideal of physical freedom). Clerics can trade in their Domains for Devotions as bonus feats and don't need an in-character devotion to take the any Devotions that they could gain as Domains. Any character can only ever have two devotions. Also, you can't have opposing devotions (i.e. Good and Evil, Fire and Water). Just figured it was a pertinent reminder given the source.
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    If the line between genius and madness is so thin...

    Then why do so few in this day and age toe said line?

    Thanks to Bongos for the v-13 avvie!

    I think the lesson that we can take away from this is that tentacles solve everything, and if you have a problem, then you just need more tentacles. - seadragonknight of the BG boards.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    I had an idea for Mystic Exemplar ...

    ... then I realized that there's another PrC, not terribly obscure, that could do everything I was using Mystic Exemplar for, and do it better.

    I have one other idea, but it requires a pretty questionable interpretation that I think would earn large Elegance penalties, so I may just sit back and watch what other people come up with.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    i am in. i already have a great idea in place, that i think will be quite the fun build
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    And once again, I rise to the challenge.
    Though what to do... This class can go so many ways

    Edit:
    An hour later, I think I have my idea.
    Though the one things which ties it all together very nicely tanks my score with two of the judge the criteria posted. *sigh*
    Back to the drawing board.
    Last edited by Chineselegolas; 2010-08-17 at 08:47 AM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    I'm not comitting myself to entry yet, but it's worth pointing out there's a fairly significant amount of official errata for this class, including adding Perform as a class skill, and setting durations and DCs for several of the abilities.

    http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Err...teChampion.zip
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    I think I will join as a contestant, too.
    Mythic Exemplar is really interesting, but actually using its own class features might be an issue.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    Just thought I might mention that a pic or two I've always thought adds that extra zest to an entry.

    www.DeviantArt.com is a great place to find'em

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    Darn...I feel like competing in this one. This would be my first time in the Iron Chef competition, though I've seen one or two. Thing is, it clicked when I saw Mythic Exemplar, since there was a build that was running up in my mind. I don't aim to please, I aim to just participate and see how well my build-fu is.

    Now, for the few questions: are the books limited ONLY to 3.5 books? Or 3.0 books are allowed, so as long as the content has not been updated. Also (in spoilers):
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    Is Races of Faerun allowed? Not sure whether it counts as a 3.0 or a 3.5 book. It's not entirely important, but certainly it could be used.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    Signing up as a contestant; maybe this time around I'll get something finished.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    3.0 material that was not expressly updated for 3.5 has been ruled legal in the past, as has the spoilered source book.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge X

    I'm not perfectly sure how to ask rules questions, but I'm going to put it in a spoiler, just in case. The question may reveal something of my goal for my build.
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    Is Leadership banned, if you don't specify/build your cohorts, and it is perfectly according to fluff, and is a requirement for a prestige class, too?

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