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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default 4E achievements

    Major wall of text. Basically i came up with these due to popular demand in our gaming groups. There are 1000 possible achievement points if you add up general, role, and class. Any of the 'proofs' are roleplay oriented and decided on by the DM (i use the example of insanity being reason with a slaad and peace being stop a war) and bonus points. The title's unlock items, special rewards etc. Our reward for said achievements is nifty extras from our reoccurring merchant character (Resident Evil 4 anyone?)

    These are geared towards our main gaming group but perhaps someone else may get some use out of them

    Without further ado:

    General Achievements:

    (5) Class I:
    No Rest for the Wicked: Succeed on a death saving throw
    Back to the Basics: Use no encounter or daily attack powers in a fight
    Underdog: Kill a monster at least 5 levels higher than you
    First Blood: Take an enemy to bloodied hp in a single attack
    Enter the Matrix: Get attacked by at least 3 enemies and take no damage in a round
    Heavy Handed: Use no at-will powers in an encounter
    Finishing Move: Kill an enemy with a crit
    Student of All, Master of None: Roll a 20 on a skill check and not succeed.
    I Rise, You Fall: Save against a status a creature applied and then apply your own to the same foe
    Lamb to Slaughter: An enemy moves adjacent to you, misses, and you kill it within a turn

    (10) Class II:
    Valiant Effort: Succeed on a death saving throw with no healing surges
    SOL: Fail a saving throw 3 times in a row
    Master of Defense: An enemyís crit is made a normal attack
    Iím Out of Your League: Hit an enemy on a 2
    Deadeye: Go an entire battle without missing (must attack every round)
    Focus Fire is for Noobs: Deal damage to every enemy in an encounter (must be at least 3 non-minion monsters present)
    Thick Skinned: Survive a coup de grace
    I Have the High Ground: Maneuver an opponent off a ledge so that they take damage
    Ace in the Hole: Please an artifact
    Death from Above: Defeat an opponent that was on a lower altitude when your turn began

    (15) Class III:
    One in 400: 2 crits on 2 consecutive dice rolls
    Double Kill: Kill 2 non-minions in one round
    The Universe Laughs: fail a saving throw 5 times in a row
    Resilient: Save from three or more effects in a round
    Perfection: Take no damage and kill at least one monster in an encounter
    ďItís a Trap!Ē: Get knocked unconscious from full hp in one turn
    Mo-Bile, A-Gile, Hos-Tile: End at least 2 squares away from where you began every turn for an encounter
    Trust the Force, Luke: Kill an enemy you canít see
    Long Day at the Office: Have a negative effect on you every round (not necessarily on your initiative pass)
    Itís Called Teamwork: Dodge an elite/soloís attack only to be hit a standard/minion the same round


    (20) Class IV:
    The Damned Return: Succeed on death saving throws twice in one encounter
    Liviní on A Prayer: Get reduced to one hp from death
    Resurgence: Be reduced from full hp to 0 and end at full again.
    Untouchable: Go 3 encounters without spending a healing surge
    One Hit Wonder: Kill a non-minion enemy in one turn
    Overkill: Crit a minion
    Light Sleeper: Avoid a coup de grace
    My Tactics are Superior: defeat an opponent with a damage type its weak to
    If I Go, Youíre Coming with Me: Defeat an opponent the round before you go unconscious from ongoing damage
    Thatís Why this is My Story: Defeat a named NPC with a crit


    (25) Class V:
    One Man Army: Kill every monster in an encounter (must be more than one monster)
    One in 8000: Crit 3 times on 3 consecutive attacks
    Triple Kill: Kill 3 non-minions in one round
    Last Man Standing: Win an encounter as the last standing party member
    So Long, and Thanks for the all the Experience: Kill an opponent before it acts
    You Called Down the ThunderÖ: Crit an enemy who critted you last round
    Subtlety is for the Weak: Defeat an enemy with a damage type it resists
    Early Bird Gets the Worm: Move first in initiative and crit an enemy
    The End is Near: Have an opponent miss you, action point, miss again and then defeat it the next round.
    Back With a Vengeance: Regain consciousness, and within the next round, defeat the foe that knocked you down


    Controller:

    Class I
    Kill 2 minions in a single round
    Inflict a different negative status effect 2 rounds consecutively

    Class II
    Kill 3 minions in a single round
    Inflict a different negative status effect 3 rounds consecutively

    Class III
    Kill 4 minions in a single round
    Inflict a different negative status effect 4 rounds consecutively

    Class IV
    Kill 5 minions in a single round
    Inflict a different negative status effect 5 rounds consecutively

    Class V
    Kill 6 minions in a single round
    Inflict a different negative status effect 6 rounds consecutively

    Striker:

    Class I
    Kill 2 non-minion enemies in an encounter
    Deal 60 damage in a round

    Class II
    Kill 3 non-minion enemies in an encounter
    Deal 120 damage in a round

    Class III
    Kill 4 non-minion enemies in an encounter
    Deal 180 damage in a round

    Class IV
    Kill 5 non-minion enemies in an encounter
    Deal 240 damage in a round

    Class V
    Kill 6 non-minion enemies in an encounter
    Deal 300 damage in a round


    Defender:

    Class I
    Mark 2 different enemies in a round
    Punish a marked enemy 2 rounds consecutively

    Class II
    Mark 3 different enemies in a round
    Punish a marked enemy 3 rounds consecutively

    Class III
    Mark 4 different enemies in a round
    Punish a marked enemy 4 rounds consecutively

    Class IV
    Mark 5 different enemies in a round
    Punish a marked enemy 5 rounds consecutively

    Class V
    Mark 6 different enemies in a round
    Punish a marked enemy 6 rounds consecutively


    Leader:

    Class I
    Buff a successful ally attack 2 times in an encounter
    Heal one ally 40 hp in one round

    Class II
    Buff a successful ally attack 3 times in an encounter
    Heal one ally 80 hp in one round

    Class III
    Buff a successful ally attack 4 times in an encounter
    Heal one ally 120 hp in one round

    Class IV
    Buff a successful ally attack 5 times in an encounter
    Heal one ally 160 hp in one round

    Class V
    Buff a successful ally attack 6 times in an encounter
    Heal one ally 200 hp in one round


    Avenger:

    Raven Queenís Vengeance: Crit and kill an opponent with the Undead keyword
    Kordís Honor: Be the only person to damage a non-minion and kill them
    Iounís Sagacity: Get your censure bonus 3 rounds in a row
    Bahamutís Protection: Kill an oathed opponent that downed an ally last turn
    Pelorís Brilliance: Kill a radiant vulnerable enemy with a radiant attack
    Avandraís Favor: an ally crits on their Divine Guidance roll
    Zehirís Shadows: Kill a foe that canít see you
    Moradainís Resolve: Get the final kill in a battle with less than surge value hp
    Sehanineís Ardor: Never let your oath target end adjacent to an ally for a whole fight
    Baneís Supremacy: Hit the oathed target 3 rounds in a row and not be hit by them for the same 3 rounds

    Ranger:

    World Demon: Kill 20 enemies with the aberrant or natural origin
    Astral Enmity: Kill 20 enemies with the elemental or immortal origin
    Twilight Slayer: Kill 20 enemies with the shadow or fey origin
    Closing for the Kill: Have prime shot 3 rounds consecutively
    Fastest in the Land: Kill an enemy as an immediate interrupt
    Cover Fire: Kill two enemies flanking an ally in a round
    Lone Ranger: End the encounter with at least one kill and always more than 5 squares away from an ally
    Full Salvo: Attack more than 10 times in a round
    Perfect Quarry: Deal max damage with hunterís quarry (N/A in heroic)
    Enderís Quarry: Kill an opponent with quarry damage

    Sorcerer:

    Pyroclasm: Kill 3 enemies with 3 different powers with 3 different damage types in an encounter
    Daggermaster is Overrated: Crit two enemies with one attack
    Party-Friendly WMDís: Target at least 25 squares with an attack and hit no allies and at least 2 enemies
    I Have a Summer Home there: Kill a solo with the elemental keyword
    Constraint is for Wizardís: Use every encounter and at least 1 daily power and hit at least 1 enemy with each
    Xykon would be Proud: Kill a non-minion (all damage must come from you) using only one power
    Healthy Enthusiasm: Kill a target before a powerís secondary damage effect comes into play
    Natural Selection: Kill another with sorcery in their veins.
    Distant Onslaught: Attack every turn and remain at least 5 squares away from all enemies for an encounter
    Learned it from the Best: slay a dragon

    Fighter:

    Float like a Butterfly: Mark two skirmisher or lurker types in the same round
    Sting like a Bee: Fell an opponent as it tries to shift away
    Aggro Whore: Take your bloodied value in damage and 2 status effects in one round
    Cunning Footwork: Damage two prone foes in a turn
    Klutch Killer: Kill a foe with an opportunity attack as it strikes a bloodied ally
    Stalwart Guardian: Stop a foe from moving adjacent to an unconscious ally
    Watching their Back: Score the highest perception when spotting oncoming opponent
    Mercy has its Place: Knock a foe unconscious
    Öso does Efficiency: Kill a disarmed opponent/noncombatant
    The Weapon Master: Crit on 19 twice during an encounter

    Cleric:

    Deathís Doorman: Revive 2 unconscious allies in the same encounter
    Necromantic Bane: Score a critical hit with Turn Undead
    Right the Balance: Remove a status effect from an ally and inflict one on an enemy in the same round
    Surge Friendly: Roll the maximum value on healing word (N/A in heroic)
    Itís what Strikers are for: Deal no damage for one encounter
    The Unsung Hero: Win a level +2 encounter with no allies falling unconscious
    Someone should have Multi-classed Artificer: Have two party members fall unconscious and have no surges left in the same encounter
    Or I could just do Everything: Stabilize at least two allies with no surges left in one encounter
    The Gods have Taught me Much: Heal 42 hit points in one round
    Adventuring is my Day Job: Cure a Disease



    Proof of Character: 15 points each

    Proof of Compassion
    Proof of Vigor
    Proof of Talent
    Proof of Belief
    Proof of Hatred
    Proof of Hope
    Proof of Greed
    Proof of Order
    Proof of Silence
    Proof of Anarchy
    Proof of Valor
    Proof of Purity
    Proof of Might
    Proof of Sacrifice
    Proof of Trust
    Proof of Love
    Proof of Truth
    Proof of Freedom
    Proof of Lust
    Proof of Glory
    Proof of Strife
    Proof Serenity
    Proof of Wealth
    Proof of Reform
    Proof of Peace
    Proof of Leadership
    Proof of Divinity
    Proof of Deception
    Proof of Terror



    Path of the Savior:
    Proof of Hope
    Proof of Glory
    Proof of Peace
    Proof of Divinity
    Proof of Serenity
    Proof of Valor
    Proof of Belief
    Proof of Freedom
    Proof of Sacrifice
    Proof of Truth
    Proof of Love
    Proof of Trust
    Proof of Compassion

    Path of the Prophet:
    Proof of Belief
    Proof of Leadership
    Proof of Divinity
    Proof of Peace
    Proof of Hope
    Proof of Compassion
    Proof of Serenity
    Proof of Freedom

    Path of the General:
    Proof of Leadership
    Proof of Strife
    Proof of Might
    Proof of Talent
    Proof of Glory

    Path of the Knight:
    Proof of Compassion
    Proof of Sacrifice
    Proof of Valor
    Proof of Purity
    Proof of Might

    Path of the Angel:
    Proof of Divinity
    Proof of Glory
    Proof of Valor
    Proof of Compassion
    Proof of Belief

    Path of the Duke:
    Proof of Wealth
    Proof of Leadership
    Proof of Order

    Path of the Diplomat:
    Proof of Reform
    Proof of Peace
    Proof of Trust
    Proof of Freedom

    Path of the Scoundrel:
    Proof of Reform
    Proof of Anarchy
    Proof of Talent
    Proof of Lust

    Path of the Headhunter:
    Proof of Greed
    Proof of Might
    Proof of Strife

    Path of the Thief:
    Proof of Silence
    Proof of Anarchy
    Proof of Greed

    Path of the Martyr:
    Proof of Belief
    Proof of Sacrifice
    Proof of Hope

    Path of the Monster:
    Proof of Strife
    Proof of Hatred
    Proof of Greed
    Proof of Lust
    Proof of Anarchy
    Proof of Terror

    Path of the Warmaster:
    Proof of Glory
    Proof of Talent
    Proof of Vigor
    Proof of Strife
    Proof of Might

    Path of the Trickster:
    Proof of Vigor
    Proof of Anarchy
    Proof of Deception

    EDITED FOR FORMATTING
    Last edited by Meta; 2010-08-22 at 10:29 PM.
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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    Hmm. Seems very MMO to me. Specifically, WoW.

    YMMV depending entirely on your groups' playstyle. That would work very well with a "gamist" style. Someone who has more of a "roleplaying" or "immersive" style would probably not appreciate this type of achievement system.

    Some of them seem pretty random, though.

    "Move first in initiative and crit an enemy?" Sure, you can optimize initiative to a degree, but critting, especially in 4e, is very, very random, because of the lack of crit range expanders.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saintjebus View Post
    Hmm. Seems very MMO to me. Specifically, WoW.

    YMMV depending entirely on your groups' playstyle. That would work very well with a "gamist" style. Someone who has more of a "roleplaying" or "immersive" style would probably not appreciate this type of achievement system.

    Some of them seem pretty random, though.

    "Move first in initiative and crit an enemy?" Sure, you can optimize initiative to a degree, but critting, especially in 4e, is very, very random, because of the lack of crit range expanders.
    well this was built after we've played characters from lvl 1 all the way to 11. We aren't going out of our way to hit these marks. They're just neat successes and give rewards for some bad*** moments. and we included A LOT of roleplay ones, it's just a shorter section cuz that's more DM discretion.

    And yes we do enjoy the 4e system of combat which you could successfully argue is more MMO-ish than 3.X's. We like the teamwork and better flow of it though, so we built a system that expands well with it
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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    Looks fun. I've seen a couple different 4e achievement variants, all of which seem to go over well with the groups involved. I've thought about putting achievements in an adventure I'm writing, but unfortunately they wouldn't fit the tone of this particular module.
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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    I disagree with the above poster, as having played MMO's extensively, I am more reminded of 360's achievements. However, I've always felt achievements were very silly and I don't even bother looking at what the achievements are for any games that I own. However, that doesn't stop me from setting personal goals in my games.

    I also understand the appeal as many people enjoy achievements as it gives them a sense of accomplishment. It's something that I would not mind adding to my own D&D games but I would not really care, personally, if I were playing and the DM used achievements.

    Having said all that: good work. I know it takes time to do something like that so please don't let the naysayers discourage you. Anything that makes sitting at a table more enjoyable for everyone is wonderful.
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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    That looks kinda cool.

    As someone who finds achievements/trophies/whatever somewhat interesting and something worth pursuing (if reasonable) in the current-gen games I play, that actually gives me a few ideas...

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    Thanks for the support! And I know what you mean tcrudisi, the 360 achievement system is definitely evident in this design and i didn't help it much when grand total ended up coming out to 1000 points. That said, thanks for your reasoning. Glad to give others some ideas to improve their own game and if you'd like some help or just someone to bounce ideas off of feel free to PM
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    Haha. The best part is what happens end game. After the achievement points are all tallied...

    Too bad Bitsy frequents this forum. Otherwise I could spill the beans.

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    Ah. Achievements. Meta-gaming at its finest.

    Those look good, though, if you're into that kind of stuff. Realistic meta-gaming goals for people to meet. I just wouldn't use achievements, personally. Takes too much away from the role-playing aspect, IMO.
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    What's the point? You're playing a game with live people, not with a computer, you don't need a system to tell you that someone did something badass.

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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    Quote Originally Posted by Tengu_temp View Post
    What's the point? You're playing a game with live people, not with a computer, you don't need a system to tell you that someone did something badass.
    This.

    Also, take a look at this game...
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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    WotC endorses what you're doing. Or, rather, the RPGA does. For the D&D Encounters campaigns there are achievements that each give you a number of points. Get enough points and you get a little reward card that basically works like a get out of jail free card for some specific situation, such as failing a skill check, taking ongoing damage, being knocked prone, etc.

    • Complete an Encounter = 3 Renown Points
    • Hit a Milestone = 2 Renown Points
    • Complete All Quests = 5 Renown Points
    • Revive a Dying Adventurer Ally = 1 Renown Point
    • Hit for +15 Damage Against 1 Enemy = 1 Renown Point
    • Kill 3 Minions with 1 Attack = 1 Renown Point
    • Take 50 Enemy Damage in 1 Session = 1 Renown Point
    • Survive 10+ Sessions without Dying = 2 Renown Points
    • Moment of Greatness = 2 Renown Points
    • Use the Reckless Breakage Rule (currently adventuring in Dark Sun) = 1 Renown Points


    Most can only be earned once, or once out of every 5 sessions. Since there's only 15 encounters in the current series, there's a hard limit on the number of times you get the points for showing up/hitting a milestone, too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengu_temp View Post
    What's the point? You're playing a game with live people, not with a computer, you don't need a system to tell you that someone did something badass.
    Two scenarios:

    1. You're at war and save your entire squad from an ambush. You return home and the President gives you a nice firm handshake.

    2. Same scenario as above except he also has a Congressional Medal of Honor waiting for you.

    As Crossfiyah said there actually is a campaign driven rationale for these it's just a secret

    Yea, I know the RPGA renown system. It's neat but not grand enough a scale for a campaign of our caliber.

    I mentioed before that there's little in the way of character building to achieve these meta-goals. This system is being implemented after a year and a half of playing across 11 levels. Our characters are quite established

    @Alex and Bitsy
    It's really weird to keep saying Meta on giant and not meaning my character haha
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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    Quote Originally Posted by dsmiles View Post
    Ah. Achievements. Meta-gaming at its finest.

    Those look good, though, if you're into that kind of stuff. Realistic meta-gaming goals for people to meet. I just wouldn't use achievements, personally. Takes too much away from the role-playing aspect, IMO.
    Agreed. Would be fun in a hack'n'slash tactical combat style adventure, but would kill a game with a focus on roleplay

    Especially this one
    Thatís Why this is My Story: Defeat a named NPC with a crit
    I'm of the same opinion when it comes to games as well. something like team fortress 2 - no problem. Something with actual plot - the idea sucks
    Last edited by Project_Mayhem; 2010-08-23 at 08:43 AM.

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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    I am quite confused about those who say role play will be hurt. Aside from implementing a system that rewards good role play, there's nothing that inherently hurts immersion. I believe there is a fallacy concerning "expert" role players thinking combat savvy players are not capable of trouncing +6 level encounters and negotiating with the crazy, bell-loving dragonborn invoker of Bahamut the next moment.

    edited for typo
    Last edited by Meta; 2010-08-23 at 08:58 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potion Sale View Post
    Two scenarios:

    1. You're at war and save your entire squad from an ambush. You return home and the President gives you a nice firm handshake.

    2. Same scenario as above except he also has a Congressional Medal of Honor waiting for you.
    And how does an achievement system enable the second scenario? Both of these rewards are put into the game by the DM's will, exist in the actual gameworld, are plot-driven and have nothing to do with an achievement system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tengu_temp View Post
    And how does an achievement system enable the second scenario? Both of these rewards are put into the game by the DM's will, exist in the actual gameworld, are plot-driven and have nothing to do with an achievement system.
    The points are not a physical reward and neither are the paths. The first grants access to specific items and bonuses from our very unique merchant and the second involves how the 'common people' of our campaign see the character and what they will refer to said character as
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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    I like this idea. Combat can get repetitive in a long campaign, but "achievements" can keep it interesting. I understand the metagame concern, and I think that the achievements should be such that they reflect the character's personality instead of making them act out of character.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potion Sale View Post
    I am quite confused about those who say role play will be hurt. Aside from implementing a system that rewards good role play, there's nothing that inherently hurts immersion. I believe there is a fallacy concerning "expert" role players thinking combat savvy players are not capable of trouncing +6 level encounters and negotiating with the crazy, bell-loving dragonborn invoker of Bahamut the next moment.

    edited for typo
    That's not what we're saying. Being 'combat savvy' is irrelevant. The point is, these achievements are an entirely metagame concept, that have no relevance in game.

    Lets say I'm plying a very cautious thief, for example. An achievement system rewards me for acting out of character.
    'Garrett, why did you you do [out of character action that gains achievement]?'
    'I don't know ...'

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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    I may make one for the StarWarsSaga game.
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    I started mine with my party investigating a disturbance at a ruined temple of the gods.

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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    Quote Originally Posted by Project_Mayhem View Post
    That's not what we're saying. Being 'combat savvy' is irrelevant. The point is, these achievements are an entirely metagame concept, that have no relevance in game.

    Lets say I'm plying a very cautious thief, for example. An achievement system rewards me for acting out of character.
    'Garrett, why did you you do [out of character action that gains achievement]?'
    'I don't know ...'
    Also, meta-game thinking, in and of itself, can be a "mood killer" as far as staying IC and roleplaying goes. Most awards for roleplaying can be covered through story XP and IC gains (the local lord grants you a small plot of land to build on, or what-have-you).
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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    Project Mayhem: Then you don't do it. I know most of my players would not do something they felt was out of character. They would just look at it as though, "Well, I can get a maximum of 950 achievement points instead of 1000".

    Tengu_Temp: It would allow the second scenario because a player hit a pre-defined achievement score. For instance, at 500 points, the character gets the medal of honor. At 495, it's still just a firm handshake. Obviously, I'm making these numbers up because I'm not involved in that game at all. But, the character managed to do enough "awesome things" that the President heard about it and decided to award the medal of honor. Yeah, they all managed to defeat the BBEG and save the world, but characters B and C did some particularly heroic things in the process (they had enough achievement points), so they get the medal of honor.
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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    Also, meta-game thinking, in and of itself, can be a "mood killer" as far as staying IC and roleplaying goes. Most awards for roleplaying can be covered through story XP and IC gains (the local lord grants you a small plot of land to build on, or what-have-you).
    this too.

    we're not saying its a bad idea. We're saying that it's not conductive to good roleplaying. That's not always a problem.

    Edit:

    Then you don't do it. I know most of my players would not do something they felt was out of character. They would just look at it as though, "Well, I can get a maximum of 950 achievement points instead of 1000".
    I'm not sure you're following me. That is still a metagame concept. You are still thinking about how to get those 950 points. Remember, we're rewarding people for getting more points. This punishes people who roleplay.

    Your giving the players less incentive to play Garrett, the guy with a developed character and realistic motives, than xxxHaX0rzxxx the guy who just fights in arbitrary ways to gain points.

    Double Edit:

    It would allow the second scenario because a player hit a pre-defined achievement score. For instance, at 500 points, the character gets the medal of honor. At 495, it's still just a firm handshake. Obviously, I'm making these numbers up because I'm not involved in that game at all. But, the character managed to do enough "awesome things" that the President heard about it and decided to award the medal of honor. Yeah, they all managed to defeat the BBEG and save the world, but characters B and C did some particularly heroic things in the process (they had enough achievement points), so they get the medal of honor.
    And this is as ridiculously metagamy as they come.

    'Well Garret, you saved the world and such, here's your handshake. Ah, xxxHaX0rzxxx, you did the same but failed 3 saves in a row as well. Have a medal.'
    Last edited by Project_Mayhem; 2010-08-23 at 11:42 AM.

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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    Quote Originally Posted by Project_Mayhem View Post
    this too.

    we're not saying its a bad idea. We're saying that it's not conductive to good roleplaying. That's not always a problem.

    Edit:



    I'm not sure you're following me. That is still a metagame concept. You are still thinking about how to get those 950 points. Remember, we're rewarding people for getting more points. This punishes people who roleplay.

    Your giving the players less incentive to play Garrett, the guy with a developed character and realistic motives, than xxxHaX0rzxxx the guy who just fights in arbitrary ways to gain points.

    Double Edit:



    And this is as ridiculously metagamy as they come.

    'Well Garret, you saved the world and such, here's your handshake. Ah, xxxHaX0rzxxx, you did the same but failed 3 saves in a row as well. Have a medal.'
    I actually don't see how this style of metagaming actually DOES inherently hurt roleplaying. Most of these are logical extensions of the character's party roles and pulling them off well. There's a few that could go wrong if a player went out of their way to try to get them, but if you're that obsessed with the points, you wouldn't logically want to lose your character and his levels and neither would the roleplayers. On top of that, you'd really have to have a problem player to try to kill the party for 10 extra points.

    Now, if the achievements here were: "Attack a fellow party member". I'd agree with you. Giving points to anti-social behavior is crazy, but this seems to just encourage people to follow their party roles, and there seems to be specific achievements for each class. He's literally rewarding you for doing your role well.

    Really, the most we're losing here is "why did you want to kill him?", and a good roleplayer should be able to spit out an easy "because this is personal" or some motivation. I could easily play in this kind of campaign and still keep my usual roleplaying chops. I don't see anything that would hinder me at all.

    I honestly see this as a way of giving your NON-roleplay heavy guys something to encourage them to get in the game. There's some in universe rationale for getting a high score. Fun. The game heavy gamer wants to see what it is.

    On the other hand, it gives your roleplay heavy players a chance to get a little game heavy because they have a roleplay reason. It's a bit meta-gamey, but being a badass does have some end-game consequence to roleplay and a reward.

    It actually seems like if anything, this gets everyone on the same page.

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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    The point is: you dont need metagame achievments for non-metagame events.

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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    Technically they're non-metagame achievements, since they will directly fuel a major event at level 30, based on the point totals.
    Last edited by Crossfiyah; 2010-08-23 at 01:51 PM.

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    Looks cute. I know some players who would get a laugh out of it. However, I'd hate to have to track it. For instance, I don't want to have to count failed saves, to see if somebody hits 5 of them. That's more effort than it's worth. And you have to look up the result once they hit it.

    Were I to do something like this, I'd rather just invent the achievements on the fly.
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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    Quote Originally Posted by Project_Mayhem View Post
    'Well Garret, you saved the world and such, here's your handshake. Ah, xxxHaX0rzxxx, you did the same but failed 3 saves in a row as well. Have a medal.'
    "Well 'Pillage People', you saved the world and for that I must shake your hands. But you - you! - are you not Bob the Fireman, the one who's toughness is so legendary, that even though Darth Vader managed to knock you unconscious, even with his minions beating on you, they could not cause you to succumb to your wounds for over half the battle? Your toughness is legendary! For that, I award you the well-deserved medal of honor."

    (Note: Pillage People is the name that I usually call my groups when I'm playing in them, because, yeah, it's awesome. Bob the Fireman is completely made up, because, well, I am terrible at coming up with names on the fly. Hence Darth Vader, as well.)

    Can this negatively impact roleplaying? Sure, it could. Would it in my groups? No, it would not. Would it have impacted us 10-15 years ago? Absolutely. We are a bit older and wiser now and enjoy getting into character. I think this definitely changes by the group.

    Project Mayhem: if you believe this would hinder roleplaying for yourself or your group, well, it is completely optional and you do not have to use it. If, however, you feel that it would enhance yours and your groups play experience, then why not use it?
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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    Quote Originally Posted by Dairun Cates View Post
    I actually don't see how this style of metagaming actually DOES inherently hurt roleplaying. Most of these are logical extensions of the character's party roles and pulling them off well. There's a few that could go wrong if a player went out of their way to try to get them, but if you're that obsessed with the points, you wouldn't logically want to lose your character and his levels and neither would the roleplayers. On top of that, you'd really have to have a problem player to try to kill the party for 10 extra points.

    Now, if the achievements here were: "Attack a fellow party member". I'd agree with you. Giving points to anti-social behavior is crazy, but this seems to just encourage people to follow their party roles, and there seems to be specific achievements for each class. He's literally rewarding you for doing your role well.

    Really, the most we're losing here is "why did you want to kill him?", and a good roleplayer should be able to spit out an easy "because this is personal" or some motivation. I could easily play in this kind of campaign and still keep my usual roleplaying chops. I don't see anything that would hinder me at all.

    I honestly see this as a way of giving your NON-roleplay heavy guys something to encourage them to get in the game. There's some in universe rationale for getting a high score. Fun. The game heavy gamer wants to see what it is.

    On the other hand, it gives your roleplay heavy players a chance to get a little game heavy because they have a roleplay reason. It's a bit meta-gamey, but being a badass does have some end-game consequence to roleplay and a reward.

    It actually seems like if anything, this gets everyone on the same page.
    This is said perfectly. No one built their characters for these achievements and frankly I'm a bit annoyed needing to type this for the third time. Our characters are a year and a half old and level 11 after starting at 1. They're established and they have their own way of responding to things in the game world.

    Check this out:
    My character Meta (some tieflings name themselves after attributes and Meta grew up in a temple dedicated to Avandra. Meta among other things is the prefix for change)

    He was raised there for 19 years with his childhood friend. He is quiet and good natured if a little naive. His adventures take him all over the continent where he fights dragons, demons, and a host of terrifying creatures. At the climax of our heroic tier, he and his party members climb a tower that used to reside in a gigantic astral city the primordials wrecked long ago.

    At the top they are confronted by three angels who tell the tale of how brave mortals must stand against the tide of chaos that appears every 1000 years and gives the primordials a chance to reclaim earth in accordance with a treaty agreed upon by the gods, primordials, and primal spirits long ago.

    These angels also tell Meta that the vision he faced on his ascent (fighting his family during the war between Arkoshia and Bael Turath) wasn't as far fetched as he things and that he is far older than he can imagine.

    And then this:

    Meta is a tiefling/deva/genasi/githzerai avenger MC monk/Favored Soul/Soul of the World.

    More of his angelic traits will appear as he learns he is reincarnated every time this 1000 year war looms. His angelic nature and reincarnation into different forms is represented in my PP, ED, and Feat selection.

    On the way up the tower our party had a challenge to fight two devas and their golden dragon mounts. It was a fight to bloodied. My party didn't fare too well and Meta was left alone against 3 enemies. With some favorable rolls and good tactics Meta is able to finish the encounter himself and earns the very cool Last Man Standing achievement.

    I am equally pleased with both of these paragraphs. They both describe a character I am very attached to. I could write pages more on Meta's story. He is both a caring and selfless individual and an all together lethal foe against the forces of that threaten his home. I enjoy playing him in both of those rules and to further heighten the sense of peaceful bad*** that he is and to further define the awesomeness of the other characters of our campaign we came up with a system to add some notable milestones on their journey to destiny.

    None of this hinders our roleplay or rollplay. Heck it BENEFITS more than one of our players who have never played DnD before this. This will deepen the immersion of our Minotaur Fighter who will likely strive for the Path of the Monster in grim fashion, because that's who his character is. He isn't going to hit that path and then pull a complete 180 and start being all goody two shoes so he can get the path of the prophet.

    I believe that those who imagine may be playing their games with a different caliber of player, and I hope you the best in your games, but Meta, Viz, Benyamin, Briggs, and Rizzuto are gonna continue on their fated quest without taking much notice of achievements. Nate, Bitsy, Rick, Chris, and Ben will be cheering in the background if Meta finally gets the Path of the Savior however.

    To those who like the system, thank you very much and if such a system appeals to you to supplement your game, I'd be happy to help aiding you in its implementation
    Last edited by Meta; 2010-08-23 at 02:31 PM.
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    Default Re: 4E achievements

    Quote Originally Posted by Crossfiyah View Post
    Haha. The best part is what happens end game. After the achievement points are all tallied...

    Too bad Bitsy frequents this forum. Otherwise I could spill the beans.
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