Warhammer 40K Tabletop VIII: "You're Gonna have To Face It, You're Addicted To Math"

[lord_khaine]

FNP is on a 4+.

So, do we have a candidate for next thread title here

[Cheesegear]

Once again you've said something I wasn't sure of, then followed it up with really good advice on how to re-shape my list

Alright, thank you. That was highly helpful.

It appears that I'm returning to form.

Aren't these two statements contradictory?

Yes, yes they are. Since Vypers are Fast, feel free to ignore the S4 comment. But, apparently I'm not allowed to edit my posts anymore. So I have to wait until I get made to look like an idiot before I can tell people what I really meant.

So I'm kind of confused whether it works the exact same way as in close combat (wounds on 2+, S9 against vehicles), or whether it's just the "wounds on 4+" that S:X usually implies.

Wounds on 2+, S9 vs. vehicles. Yep.

My main question is, does it ever make sense to use un-upgraded Rangers? It just seems to me they gain so much by the Pathfinder upgrade that one should pretty much never use regular Rangers...

Unless you're strapped for points. Not really.

[Klose_the_Sith]

It appears that I'm returning to form.

I didn't think you ever lost it, you just stopped posting as regularly ... plus that Kroot debate is a walking mathhammer nightmare on legs, regardless of which side you take.

Now go write that Battle Rep - I'm so curious to see what all the hubbubs about

[Cheesegear]

I didn't think you ever lost it, you just stopped posting as regularly ... plus that Kroot debate is a walking mathhammer nightmare on legs, regardless of which side you take.

I was actually referring to the Night Spinner debacle.

Now go write that Battle Rep - I'm so curious to see what all the hubbubs about

How come I'm always the one writing Battle Reports? Can't someone else write one for once?

What's the hubbub? Swarmlord vs. Falcon. Yeah. That's right.

[_Zoot_]

The only problem with giving a Med pack to my Command squad is that it costs 30 points and I only have 20...

[lord_khaine]

How come I'm always the one writing Battle Reports? Can't someone else write one for once?

I wrote one in the last thread, i might write another one if i get a interesting battle.

[Winterwind]

Yes, yes they are. Since Vypers are Fast, feel free to ignore the S4 comment. But, apparently I'm not allowed to edit my posts anymore. So I have to wait until I get made to look like an idiot before I can tell people what I really meant.

Ah, I see.
...as far as I'm concerned, I see nothing wrong with your usage of editing, but that's just me (heck, I edit my posts more often than not, too).

Wounds on 2+, S9 vs. vehicles. Yep.

Splendid.

Unless you're strapped for points. Not really.

Alright, got it.

Thanks again!

How come I'm always the one writing Battle Reports? Can't someone else write one for once?

Well, I write Battle Reports for WHFB moderately often, if that counts.

I haven't had all that many WH40k games lately (and the last one I did ended after three-and-a-half turns with my opponent giving up after providing excellent proof why Daemons are too unreliable). But when I get a good one, I'll make sure to write it up.

[ShadowFighter15]

Since most people here in Toowoomba (and apparently the rest of Australia if what Cheesegear's said is right) use 1750 point lists, I figured I'd try and do one up to get an idea of what else I should buy in the near future. I've probably spent too many points here and there or grabbed stuff that isn't as useful as it looks on paper, but that's what internet feedback's for, right?

Also, anything marked with an asterisk is something I already own and have built (except for the Sternguard squad; they're only half-built at the moment).

Spoiler

Show

HQ
Captain Lysander - 200 Points

ELITES
Assault Terminator Squad (x5) - 200 Points*
2x Lightning Claws
3x Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields

Dreadnought - 145 Points*
Twin-Linked Lascannon
Missile Launcher

Sternguard Veterans (x10) - 335*
4x Combi-Meltas, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon
+ Drop Pod*
Locator Beacon

TROOPS
Tactical Squad (x10) - 230 Points*
Meltagun, Plasma Cannon, Melta Bombs
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon
+ Rhino*

Tactical Squad (x10) - 270 Points*
Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher, Melta Bombs
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon
+ Razorback*
Twin-linked Lascannon

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad (x10) - 235 Points*
2x Flamer
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Fist

Land Speeder (x2) - 120
Both w/ Multi Meltas

Total: 1745 Points

I'm stumped on where to put those last five points, and I may just be paranoid, but I feel the lack of Heavy Support might cause some problems. Anyway, I'd appreciate any feedback I could get on this list.

[Klose_the_Sith]

I was actually referring to the Night Spinner debacle.

Oh, that. I didn't even read that cause I don't see them used and I don't play Eldar

How come I'm always the one writing Battle Reports? Can't someone else write one for once?

What, you want me to write about being almost tabled by Blood Angels? How about when I was almost tabled by Chaos? Or Tau?

I have won a grand total of one game in my whole experience with the game. I for one am justified in not writing Battle Reports, because no-one would learn anything new from seeing my lists fail

[dsmiles]

plus that Kroot debate is a walking mathhammer nightmare on legs, regardless of which side you take.

Can I get a w00t for kr00t?!??!?

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself. )

[Cheesegear]

Since most people here in Toowoomba (and apparently the rest of Australia if what Cheesegear's said is right) use 1750 point lists...

*Cracks open a White Dwarf (June's)...Goes to the back for tournament dates/details*
1750, 1750, 1750, 1500, 1750, 1750, 1500, 1850 (Tasmania fail), 1750, 1750, 1750, 1750, 1000x3, 750, 1500

I think it's safe to say that 1750 tournaments are relatively common. And Tasmania fails. Yes, that's also meant to be 750. Not 1750. It's for Ball & Chains and Youngbloods/Newbs.

Onto the list...

Spoiler

Show

Captain Lysander - 200 Points

Yep. Good choice. I think he's the most powerful in the Codex. A lot of other people like He'Stan, Sicarius or Pedro. Depending on how they play.

Shrike is pretty good. But people don't seem to like him very much. I think partially due to the kind of army you have to play to work with him.

Assault Terminator Squad (x5) - 200 Points*
2x Lightning Claws
3x Thunder Hammers & Storm Shields

You're better off with Lightning Claws to Thunder Hammers going 4:1 with a Chaplain. However, since you're slogging it (or Deep Striking), I'd probably suggest 0:5.
If you're going to run 0:5 though, you might want to drop Lysander.

Dreadnought - 145 Points
Twin-Linked Lascannon
Missile Launcher

There are better things to spend your points on. But, this is one of the better set ups for a Dreadnought.

Sternguard Veterans (x10) - 335
4x Combi-Meltas, Melta Bombs, Power Weapon
+ Drop Pod*
Locator Beacon

Lose the Melta Bombs. Lose the Power Weapon. Trade it for a Fist. Might want to put in more Meltas and add a Heavy Flamer or two. If you're running a lot of Hammernators, drop Lysander for He'Stan. He makes your Hammernators and Suicide Sternguard better.

Tactical Squad (x10) - 230 Points
Meltagun, Plasma Cannon, Melta Bombs
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon
+ Rhino

Tactical Squads can take Melta Bombs?
I assume you meant on the Sergeant. Drop the Melta Bombs. Swap your Rhino for a Razorback. Combat Squad up. Leave the Plasma Cannon on the ground firing every turn, run the Power Weapon up where it's needed. Better yet, swap the Power Weapon for a Meltagun or Plasma Gun.

Tactical Squad (x10) - 270 Points
Plasma Gun, Missile Launcher, Melta Bombs
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon
+ Razorback: Twin-linked Lascannon

Lose the Melta Bombs. Might want to swap out the Missile Launcher for a Heavy Bolter. I would.

And really. 1750, and only two Troops units? That's how you want to play is it? My first thought would be to drop the Dreadnought. You should have four Troops units in 1750. At least. Before you Combat Squad.

Assault Squad (x10) - 235 Points
2x Flamer
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Fist

I'd go with a Lightning Claw and Melta Bombs. A Lightning Claw will be more effective on whatever you're using Flamers on.

Land Speeder (x2) - 120
Both w/ Multi Meltas

Is He'Stan in the list? No? Didn't think so. These are pretty garbage. Grab Typhoons or Assault Cannons. Or drop these in favour of more Troops.

I feel the lack of Heavy Support might cause some problems. Anyway, I'd appreciate any feedback I could get on this list.

A problem I see is that you're taking 3 Elite slots. They're chewing a lot of your points up. Sternguard and Terminators? Since they don't all have Storm Shields, they're not going to last very long when they get shot at. And, Assault Terminators aren't really the kind of Terminators you want to Deep Strike. Not to mention that Assault Terminators kind of make Lysander redundant.

My first thought is to drop the Land Speeders and Dreadnought. 280 points right there. A few tweaks here and there, will get you to 300 points, which is enough for two Scout Squads with Rifles and Missile Launcher.

Or a Tactical Squad - or two - in Razorbacks.

Yeah, pretty much the main problem is lack of Troops.

[Trixie]

*Breathes through teeth*
Not the best. One of the better things a Chapter Master can do, is lay down an Orbital on the first turn. If you're running him in a Drop Pod, you'll need to give him Terminator Armour for Relentless if you're doing that. However, I have mentioned this before (specifically when talking about Pedro though), when you drop into your opponent's DZ, then follow that with an Orbital, keep in mind that it will Scatter the maximum distance. You can end up hitting your own units, and Orbitals turn infantry squads into paste.

Marneus Calgar is the bomb. Seriously. He has five attacks since he's got dual Power Fists. And he re-rolls To Wound. God of War is the best. No. Seriously. You thought Combat Tactics was broken? God of War breaks Combat Tactics even further.

...I don't use Calgar for the sole reason that he's a Land Raider. Lysander is only slightly worse for a lot less points.

...Great. Now I want to run Lysander and Calgar in the same list. Thanks a lot.

Um... I wanted for a long time to run a piece asking why you consider Lysander to be the best when for mere 50 points more you can have Calgar. Seriously. If all the extra things he gets for these were instead one 50 points upgrade character, everyone would take him. He would be one of the most underpriced units in the game. And, if you need teleport homer, he gets Terminator Armor free.

Looks like I don't have to, now :P

Actually, it would. Since God of War is not a 'second' Chapter Tactics.

Um, I haven't noticed this before. Hmmm. Though, wait a second, Calgar does have Chapter Tactics. It is in his Special Rules. It's just 'normal' Chapter Tactics, though modified by God of War. All the other Special Rules replacing Chapter Tactics state that you have to pick between two ICs Chapter Tactics, not two unique Chapter Tactics.

I could be wrong, though, still, it would be weird if some shmucker could override Chapter Master so easily.

But then again, both unique CMs in the C:SM are so pants they don't even get artificer armor, despite other ICs from their Chapters having it. Maybe they're just so not-assertive? :P

Hmm...It seems that Calgar doesn't synergise with any of the other characters. Like, at all. He doesn't even work that well with Sicarius since God of War makes 'everyone is Ld10' useless.

Nope. God of War doesn't work on all morale and on pinning checks. Making sure your units are immune to dice rolls even in this regard is good, too, as then you're pretty much sure how they will always behave.

If you have them both, your army is now Fearless, but doesn't have a single penalty (like fearless wounds) included in that.

[Cheesegear]

Um... I wanted for a long time to run a piece asking why you consider Lysander to be the best when for mere 50 points more you can have Calgar.

Because I just said. The difference between Calgar and Lysander isn't that much. For 50 points. Calgar can shoot. Lysander makes the squad he's with shoot better. Especially important when using Vengeance Rounds with your Sternguard.

Second, Lysander has a 3+ Invulnerable. It counts for a lot.

Lysander also busts Land Raiders and Monoliths with ease. And can one-shot Warbosses.

And, if you need teleport homer, he gets Terminator Armor free.

No he doesn't. It costs 15 points.

Um, I haven't noticed this before. Hmmm. Though, wait a second, Calgar does have Chapter Tactics. It is in his Special Rules. It's just 'normal' Chapter Tactics, though modified by God of War.

It's not Chapter Tactics. Look again. It's Combat Tactics. It gets replaced by anyone who does have Chapter Tactics.

I could be wrong, though, still, it would be weird if some shmucker could override Chapter Master so easily.

You are wrong. Any not-Ultramarine IC (who has Chapter Tactics) over-rides Calgar. Because they all replace Combat Tactics with Chapter Tactics. I guess because Calgar has Combat Tactics, the idea is that when you take another SC, they replace Calgar's CTs with their own ChT making Calgar part of the Chapter that you're trying to make.

For example, when you take Lysander and Calgar, Calgar becomes Stubborn (because he has Combat Tactics), and God of War no longer applies (to anyone who isn't Calgar, himself) because nobody has Combat Tactics anymore.

If you have them both, your army is now Fearless, but doesn't have a single penalty (like fearless wounds) included in that.

What? I just checked, and you were right in the part I'm not quoting that God of War doesn't work for Pinning checks. They're not Fearless. They're Ld10 for Pinning. Slightly different.

Second, and I also just noticed, Calgar doesn't work if he's not on the table - or dead. Unlike every other character.

[Klose_the_Sith]

You are wrong. Any not-Ultramarine IC (who has Chapter Tactics) over-rides Calgar. Because they all replace Combat Tactics with Chapter Tactics. I guess because Calgar has Combat Tactics, the idea is that when you take another SC, they replace Calgar's CTs with their own ChT making Calgar part of the Chapter that you're trying to make.

For example, when you take Lysander and Calgar, Calgar becomes Stubborn (because he has Combat Tactics), and God of War no longer applies (to anyone who isn't Calgar, himself) because nobody has Combat Tactics anymore.

Man, you'd think the Chapter Master of the Ultramarines would be more assertive. Looks like he's every other Chapter Master's bitch

[crazedloon]

But, apparently I'm not allowed to edit my posts anymore. So I have to wait until I get made to look like an idiot before I can tell people what I really meant.

I hope this is not in reference to what I mentioned. If it is I am sorry it is not what I meant. It just so happens that discussions between members get particularly heated when it is assumed that each person catches every edit before they click post for their response. Further arguments than involve claims that a person did not read an edit is where problems occur. It is not only with you that this happens indeed it is with anyone on the forum and therefor does not mean you should feel you shouldn't edit. It is just best to assume ,if you fixed something with an edit, that your edits are missed for the first few following responses to your post.

[Trixie]

I hope this is not in reference to what I mentioned.

Eh, that quote was in part a strawman our dear CG so loathes ;P

No one said we have a problem with you fixing obvious mistakes or typos, my post from the beginning was about something you used to do sometimes - that is, tripling the size of posts that were on the verge of falling off the page and erasing whole relevant sections. Which was both annoying, and in part wasted effort, as a lot less eyes even had a chance to notice what you wrote.

As for Calgar - I'm still at loss why both unique CMs have worst armor possible. Duh.

[Cheesegear]

Man, you'd think the Chapter Master of the Ultramarines would be more assertive. Looks like he's every other Chapter Master's bitch

Not even that.
He's subject to other Chapters' Captains. And He'Stan doesn't even have a Battle-Rank, and he still tells Calgar what to do.

As for Calgar - I'm still at loss why both unique CMs have worst armor possible. Duh.

Both? By my count there's five...

Calgar runs around in Power Armour. Upgrades to Terminator Armour - if he wants to. But, the Power Armoured Calgar models comes from 2nd Ed (in fact I'm pretty sure he's just in 2nd Ed.-size Terminator Armour) and there aren't too many people who have that model. So, he's pretty much always in Terminator Armour...For 265 Points.
Pedro...Well...They don't have too many suits of Terminator or Artificer Armour around. What with their armoury detonating...You wont recover too much from that kind of explosion.

Dante is crap. Everyone knows.
Logan is a beast. And costs even more than Calgar.
Azrael...I forget. I'm AFC and I haven't memorised the Dark Angels Codex like the back of my hand yet (aside from Sammael and Ravenwing) because I really haven't wanted to. I think he's roughly on par with Sicarius on the "What's competitive?" scale. All the Dark Angels characters are. But, like I've said before, the rest of the DA Codex is pretty bad.

[ShadowFighter15]

Spoiler

Show

You're better off with Lightning Claws to Thunder Hammers going 4:1 with a Chaplain. However, since you're slogging it (or Deep Striking), I'd probably suggest 0:5.
If you're going to run 0:5 though, you might want to drop Lysander.

The idea with a 2:3 ratio was so that they would still get a fair number of attacks in at their Initiative, while the Storm Shields would help with survivability. I was trying to get a bit of a balance. I may buy another Assault Termi kit in the future, just to give myself a bit more freedom with armament and possibly to knock-up a terminator-clad Captain/Chapter Master, maybe to use instead of the actual Lysander model (since he was going to be refluffed as a captain in my own chapter rather than Lysander moonlighting for another chapter). Though with your comments outside of the spoiler, I may ditch the termies until I can find a good way to work them into the list.

There are better things to spend your points on. But, this is one of the better set ups for a Dreadnought.

I'm tempted to go with an Ironclad I got recently, but that may turn out to be a bigger point-sink than a normal dread.

Lose the Melta Bombs. Lose the Power Weapon. Trade it for a Fist. Might want to put in more Meltas and add a Heavy Flamer or two. If you're running a lot of Hammernators, drop Lysander for He'Stan. He makes your Hammernators and Suicide Sternguard better.

The abundance of Melta Bombs in the list is probably paranoia left over from my first 40k game where a drop-podding Ironclad slaughtered my infantry in hand-to-hand (though the fact I forgot about Combat Tactics and where I deployed probably factored into that more than anything). I'm not sure about going with more combi-meltas, due to lack of available parts. I can knock together another three or four using a pack of five metal melta guns I got a while ago and some left-over bolt pistols, but I'd have to buy more stuff for anything more. As for the Heavy Flamers, I remember you mentioning that they're in the Terminator kit, is there only one in the kit? And how hard is it to modify them for normal Marines to use?

Tactical Squads can take Melta Bombs?

That's a typo.

I assume you meant on the Sergeant. Drop the Melta Bombs. Swap your Rhino for a Razorback. Combat Squad up. Leave the Plasma Cannon on the ground firing every turn, run the Power Weapon up where it's needed. Better yet, swap the Power Weapon for a Meltagun or Plasma Gun.

Might keep the power weapon for now until I've got a few more games under my belt and have a better idea of what other armies are in town (only seen Marines, Wolves, Blood Angels, Eldar and 'nids so far and I think there's a Necron player around). And how often my tac squads end up in close-combat.

Lose the Melta Bombs. Might want to swap out the Missile Launcher for a Heavy Bolter. I would.

And really. 1750, and only two Troops units? That's how you want to play is it? My first thought would be to drop the Dreadnought. You should have four Troops units in 1750. At least. Before you Combat Squad.

Yeah, I kind of got a little carried away on the elite choices. Should've sorted out troops first, in hindsight. Might grab another tac squad and some sniper scouts. Maybe a Land Speeder Storm.

I'd go with a Lightning Claw and Melta Bombs. A Lightning Claw will be more effective on whatever you're using Flamers on.

I'm actually tempted to stick with the Power Fist for a bit of IC-killing. Had a second 1000-point game of 40k on the weekend against a Blood Angels player and the Fist managed to kill Dante. Granted, he doesn't have Eternal Warrior but even if they do have EW it's still not something they can ignore.

Is He'Stan in the list? No? Didn't think so. These are pretty garbage. Grab Typhoons or Assault Cannons. Or drop these in favour of more Troops.

I figured some multi-melta Land Speeders would work well at anti-armour work, considering their speed. Though this could be a case of 'good on paper, bad in practice'. I'll see if I can squeeze them in with Typhoons or not.

A problem I see is that you're taking 3 Elite slots. They're chewing a lot of your points up. Sternguard and Terminators? Since they don't all have Storm Shields, they're not going to last very long when they get shot at. And, Assault Terminators aren't really the kind of Terminators you want to Deep Strike. Not to mention that Assault Terminators kind of make Lysander redundant.

My first thought is to drop the Land Speeders and Dreadnought. 280 points right there. A few tweaks here and there, will get you to 300 points, which is enough for two Scout Squads with Rifles and Missile Launcher.

Or a Tactical Squad - or two - in Razorbacks.

Yeah, pretty much the main problem is lack of Troops.

I had a feeling I was a bit light on troops, but wasn't sure how to work them in. I've gone over the list and removed the dread, the speeders and the termies and added a pair of scout squads, both with sniper rifles and missile launchers, with one squad led by Telion.

The Sternguard Sergeant got a Power Fist and both he and the Tactical sergeants lost the melta bombs. The Assault Sarge has a lightning claw and melta bombs (although it'll be a while before I get around to making him WYSIWYG; what with him already having a power fist and there not being any lightning claws to replace it with - except for the left-over ones from the Assault Termie kit, but that'd require a fair bit of knife-work) and I've got 33 points left over. Here's the list in full if that was too hard to follow:

Spoiler

Show

HQ
Lysander - 200 Points

ELITES
Sternguard Squad (x10) - 340 Points
Power Fist, 4x Combi-meltas (might add heavy flamers depending on how many you get in the Termi kit and how hard they are to adapt for use with normal Power Armour)
+ Drop Pod
Locator Beacon

TROOPS
Tactical Squad (x10) - 270 Points
Plasma Gun, Heavy Bolter
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon
+ Razorback
Twin-Linked Lascannons

Tactical Squad (x10) - 270 Points
Meltagun, Plasma Cannon
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol and Power Weapon
+ Razorback
Twin-Linked Lascannons

Scout Squad (x10) - 227 Points
Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher
Camo Cloaks (AFC at the moment, but I assume that Telion has is own cloak. The squad price is only counting the nine cloaks for the regular scouts)
Sergeant Telion

Scout Squad (x10) - 180 Points
Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher
Camo Cloaks

FAST ATTACK
Assault Squad (x10) - 230 Points
2x Flamers
Sergeant: Bolt Pistol, Lightning Claw, Melta Bombs

Total: 1717 Points

[One Step Two]

Azrael has artificer armour and his miget gives him and his unit a 4+ save, he carries a mastercrafted Relic blade, and-master crafted Combi-plasma. Not a bad deal for 225 points. But taking him means you're using a sub-standard marine army instead of ravenwing or deathwing.

[Cheesegear]

Azrael has artificer armour and his miget gives him and his unit a 4+ save, he carries a mastercrafted Relic blade, and-master crafted Combi-plasma. Not a bad deal for 225 points.

Yes. It is a bad deal. I thought he was less than that. I think I'd stick with Sicarius who does pretty much exactly what Azrael does, plus FNP and the ability to screw around with a Tactical Squad.

EDIT: I'm back home with a Codex in my hand. Azrael is pants. Just like every DA Character. Ignore that. Azrael rocks like a Ducati.

[DaedalusMkV]

So, I did decide to go with my Tau for the next couple of games, and I'm in the process of getting them ready to go now. Sadly, my broken skimmer bases proved completely unsalvagable and I was forced to either build my own, which would have required a couple hours at the hardware store and in the workshop and wouldn't have looked terribly good in any case, or spend $5 on a couple of new ones online. I also grabbed a Pirhana, since I've been wanting to test out Fusion Blaster Piranhas for a while now. I'm looking at list building right now, and I'll be working with a variant of what I've been using up to now. It's 1700 points, the standard at my LGS. Here's the list after my first draft:

Spoiler

Show

HQ:
Shas'el: Cyclic Ion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Targetting Array, Hard-Wired Multitracker, Shield Drone - 115

Elites
2 Crisis Suits: Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, Multitracker - 124
2 Crisis Suits: Twin-linked Plasma Rifles, Flamers - 116


Troops:
10 Fire Warriors: Shas'ui, Bonding Knife - 115
10 Fire Warriors: Shas'ui, Bonding Knife - 115
10 Fire Warriors: Shas'ui, Bonding Knife - 115
10 Fire Warriors: Shas'ui, Bonding Knife - 115

Fast Attack:
6 Pathfinders - 72
-Devilfish: Disruption Pods - 85
6 Pathfinders - 72
-Devilfish: Disruption Pods - 85
1 Piranha: Fusion Blaster, Targetting Array, Disruption Pod - 75

Heavy Support:
Hammerhead: Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod, Multitracker, Target Lock - 170
Hammerhead: Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod, Multitracker, Target Lock - 170
2 Broadsides: 1 with Target Lock, 1 with Drone Controller and a Shield Drone - 160

Total Points: 1702

Some notes: Two of the Fire Warrior squads mount up in the Pathfinders' Devilfish at the beginning of my turn; they'll use them just like a normal mechanised Fire Warrior team afterwards. The other two provide fire support while holding onto any objectives in my own half of the board.
I'm trying out two new units in this list: The Piranha, obviously, and the second squad of Crisis Suits. I've heard good things about the Burning Eye (TL Plasma) configuration as an anti-MEq platform, though I've never tried them out personally. Flamers are my usual back-up weapon for TL-weapon 'suits, and I think they fit wonderfully with that config, making it far more versatile that its usual "shoot me at Terminators" status, if only with quite a bit of difficulty.

Comments and criticisms welcome, of course.

[One Step Two]

Yes. It is a bad deal. I thought he was less than that. I think I'd stick with Sicarius who does pretty much exactly what Azrael does, plus FNP and the ability to screw around with a Tactical Squad.

EDIT: I'm back home with a Codex in my hand. Azrael is pants. Just like every DA Character. Ignore that. Azrael rocks like a Ducati.

Six S6 attacks at I5 on the charge? Damn right he does. Unlike alot of 4th ed heroes, the man is properly wargeared up to the eyeballs. Rites of battle? Win. 4+ invulnreble save for the _entire_ unit, extra nifty.

[dsmiles]

So, I did decide to go with my Tau for the next couple of games, and I'm in the process of getting them ready to go now. Sadly, my broken skimmer bases proved completely unsalvagable and I was forced to either build my own, which would have required a couple hours at the hardware store and in the workshop and wouldn't have looked terribly good in any case, or spend $5 on a couple of new ones online. I also grabbed a Pirhana, since I've been wanting to test out Fusion Blaster Piranhas for a while now. I'm looking at list building right now, and I'll be working with a variant of what I've been using up to now. It's 1700 points, the standard at my LGS. Here's the list after my first draft:

Spoiler

Show

HQ:
Shas'el: Cyclic Ion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Targetting Array, Hard-Wired Multitracker, Shield Drone - 115

Elites
2 Crisis Suits: Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, Multitracker - 124
2 Crisis Suits: Twin-linked Plasma Rifles, Flamers - 116


Troops:
10 Fire Warriors: Shas'ui, Bonding Knife - 115
10 Fire Warriors: Shas'ui, Bonding Knife - 115
10 Fire Warriors: Shas'ui, Bonding Knife - 115
10 Fire Warriors: Shas'ui, Bonding Knife - 115

Fast Attack:
6 Pathfinders - 72
-Devilfish: Disruption Pods - 85
6 Pathfinders - 72
-Devilfish: Disruption Pods - 85
1 Piranha: Fusion Blaster, Targetting Array, Disruption Pod - 75

Heavy Support:
Hammerhead: Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod, Multitracker, Target Lock - 170
Hammerhead: Railgun, Burst Cannons, Disruption Pod, Multitracker, Target Lock - 170
2 Broadsides: 1 with Target Lock, 1 with Drone Controller and a Shield Drone - 160

Total Points: 1702

Some notes: Two of the Fire Warrior squads mount up in the Pathfinders' Devilfish at the beginning of my turn; they'll use them just like a normal mechanised Fire Warrior team afterwards. The other two provide fire support while holding onto any objectives in my own half of the board.
I'm trying out two new units in this list: The Piranha, obviously, and the second squad of Crisis Suits. I've heard good things about the Burning Eye (TL Plasma) configuration as an anti-MEq platform, though I've never tried them out personally. Flamers are my usual back-up weapon for TL-weapon 'suits, and I think they fit wonderfully with that config, making it far more versatile that its usual "shoot me at Terminators" status, if only with quite a bit of difficulty.

Comments and criticisms welcome, of course.

3 Questions:
1. No rail rifles on your pathfinders?
2. No flechette discharger on your piranha? (With the short range on the fusion blaster, it needs the defense, IMO.
3. More of an observation. With that many pathfinders, your list is practically begging for a skyray.

[Kzickas]

Infiltrating Assault Squads will be Assaulting on the first turn.

Unless your enemy is an eldar running elrad in which case he can simply move any units in charge range to the other end of his deployment zone after you deploy infiltrators

[Cheesegear]

Unless your enemy is an eldar running elrad in which case he can simply move any units in charge range to the other end of his deployment zone after you deploy infiltrators

*Shrug* Only a problem if you're opponent is playing Eldar, and only if they're running Eldrad. Not common enough to worry about. It would be bothersome if there were other (more Marine-like...) armies that could do it. But there aren't.

The Callidus can do it. But, again, only if your opponent runs a Callidus. And that's a pretty big 'if'. Since the Eversor exists...

[Winterwind]

Necrons with a Deceiver can do it, too. And if my friend, who's been comparing the trends in a wide variety of Necron forums is to be believed, the Deceiver is pretty much default in competitive Necron lists these days.

[Ninja Chocobo]

Azrael is pants. Just like every DA Character. Ignore that. Azrael rocks like a Ducati.

There's a contradiction in that statement.
Pants...generally means bad.

[DaedalusMkV]

3 Questions:
1. No rail rifles on your pathfinders?
2. No flechette discharger on your piranha? (With the short range on the fusion blaster, it needs the defense, IMO.
3. More of an observation. With that many pathfinders, your list is practically begging for a skyray.

1: Eew no. My Pathfinders are enough of a fire magnet to an opponent who knows what they're doing as is. Adding Rail Rifles would make them even more likely to be dead before I can blink. Also, I need those Markerlights. Rail Rifles are okay, but I think I'm better off just using the Pathfinders to support my anti-MEq Battlesuits.
2: Nah, I dropped the Flechettes for other things. I do like Flechettes, but the little guy was getting pretty expensive as-is, and frankly I'll be surprised if it survives nuking an enemy tank anyways. I'll keep it in mind as I go along, though.
3: Why, if I may ask? What's the benefit of going with a Sky Ray over an equivalently priced Hammerhead? The HH has a better gun that's more versatile and gets the same number of shots overall. The Sky Ray has more Markerlights. I suppose I could try one out though... I do have a Sky Ray turret hanging around, and this list is kind of about trying new things... Maybe. I'll think about it. I'd rather just throw some Seekers at my Pirhana and Devilfish, though. Hmm... That sounds like a good idea. Now where can I find 30 points for that...

[Trixie]

Also - with the amount of Bonding Knives you have, you might really want to take a look at Farsight/O'Shova

[dsmiles]

1: Eew no. My Pathfinders are enough of a fire magnet to an opponent who knows what they're doing as is. Adding Rail Rifles would make them even more likely to be dead before I can blink. Also, I need those Markerlights. Rail Rifles are okay, but I think I'm better off just using the Pathfinders to support my anti-MEq Battlesuits.
2: Nah, I dropped the Flechettes for other things. I do like Flechettes, but the little guy was getting pretty expensive as-is, and frankly I'll be surprised if it survives nuking an enemy tank anyways. I'll keep it in mind as I go along, though.
3: Why, if I may ask? What's the benefit of going with a Sky Ray over an equivalently priced Hammerhead? The HH has a better gun that's more versatile and gets the same number of shots overall. The Sky Ray has more Markerlights. I suppose I could try one out though... I do have a Sky Ray turret hanging around, and this list is kind of about trying new things... Maybe. I'll think about it. I'd rather just throw some Seekers at my Pirhana and Devilfish, though. Hmm... That sounds like a good idea. Now where can I find 30 points for that...

I kind of like to keep a Skyray around. Unlimited range, and no LOS necessary from the Skyray. It really depends on your table size, I guess. If you have enough seekers on just your DF and Piranhas, don't use it. I like the HH better, overall. But for those hard-to-reach places, I prefer the Skyray.