Quick LA estimations; Kenku+?

[IdleMuse]

If I took a Kenku (MM3), applied the Winged template (SS), but gave it, on top of that, -2 Dex (for a total of only +4), and -20 ft. fly speed (for a total of only 30ft), what do you estimate the LA to be?

So, overall...
- Small
- +4 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Str
- Land and Fly speed 30ft (maneuvrability based on dex)
- Great Ally (+3 on aid another, +4 when flanking)
- Mimicry
- +2 Hide and Move Silently

Does this fit into LA +1? Would it fit better without Great Ally or Mimicry, or both? Could it do with something extra?

[Tetrasodium]

If I took a Kenku (MM3), applied the Winged template (SS), but gave it, on top of that, -2 Dex (for a total of only +4), and -20 ft. fly speed (for a total of only 30ft), what do you estimate the LA to be?

So, overall...
- Small
- +4 Dex, +2 Wis, -2 Str
- Land and Fly speed 30ft (maneuvrability based on dex)
- Great Ally (+3 on aid another, +4 when flanking)
- Mimicry
- +2 Hide and Move Silently

Does this fit into LA +1? Would it fit better without Great Ally or Mimicry, or both? Could it do with something extra?

The base kenku from page 87 of the MM3 has
+2 dex -2 str
speed 30
+3 instead of +2 when using aid another because they work well with others, +4 flank bonus instead of 2 for the same reason (the great ally thing mentioned)
- Mimicry, the ability to mimic sounds accents languages voices etc using bluff checks
- 2 claw attacks (1d3)
- +2 hide/move silent
- low light vision

The winged template gives:
+2 natural armor
Flight speed 40 with good maneuverability
+2 dex -2 con
+2 move silent/spot
-4 hide
+1 LA

Where are you getting the plus to wisdom? you said you subtracted 2 dex but seem to have the dex bonus from both winged template and kenku, you said you subtracted 20 from winged template flight speed but only reduced speed by 10?...

[IdleMuse]

Sorry, this is using the Winged template from Savage Species, not that random homebrew one. :S

[Tetrasodium]

Sorry, this is using the Winged template from Savage Species, not that random homebrew one. :S

whoops, didn't even notice the homebrew bit at the bottom... I thought that image was a bit out of place .

You would essentially be getting 30 ft flight with perfect maneuverability along with +2 dex +2 wis for +1 LA since you only need a base 13 to hit the 17 required for perfect flight. I'd say it depends on what level game you are going to be jumping into. Perfect flight at level 3 is significantly more powerful than perfect flight at level 13, especially when you are getting +2 to what is probably going to be a main stat and a useful stat (+1 will save if nothing else). If it's a low level campaign I'd suggest tweaking the maneuverability somewhat, 12 clumsy, 16 poor, 20 average, 24 good, 28 perfect or something so your low level flying isn't too grand but it advances quickly enough when you add in +dex items and +dex from levels. Starting with 18+4 dex would give you average maneuverability under that, starting with 16 or 17+4 would let you quickly get better and improve to average early on for some character growth.

Of course... if it's a higher level campaign, it's probably just fine I'd guess. What class are you planning to make? I'm assuming something dex based?

[IdleMuse]

Thanks :)

This is actually for a short campaign I might run at some point, as one of a small number of playable races, all of which will have the same LA, so it's more a matter of balancing them against each other, for which I will create a later thread. For the time being, this is probably going to be looking at the sort of lvl 4-10 range.

Might change the Wisdom bonus to a Charisma one

[Tetrasodium]

Might change the Wisdom bonus to a Charisma one

kenku seem like more of an int type of thing than charisma, sort of an offshoot of crows that are better at using tools and figuring stuff out :). Just make them easily distracted with a -5 penalty to concentration or something so the whole flight, +4 dex, +2 int doesn't mean uber wizard race with no downside whatsoever (as minor as -5 concentration is, it's something).

[ericgrau]

I think the flight pushes it into LA 2. Especially since any class made with this race will easily pump its dex into high maneuverability. Small size is also a major benefit, not usually a drawback, whose only real downside is the 20' movement speed which you nixed. I mean you can't play a strength/tripper based class now, but that was already a given with the high dex and low str.